Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2016/05/05 22:59:19
Subject: Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
The plot is a bit weak or over convoluted, but I'll let it slide because I feel that they got the characters right. And there were a lot of characters to get right! I felt they hit the right notes with all of them and managed to have them all be distinct and cool.
Very strong effort. Better than the original comic I think. I want more Spiderman, it was fantastic to see him with the others, I was so excited by that. Black Panther was cool enough and not as cheesy as I feared. Ant Man was great in this, my girlfriend hadn't seen his movie and he was her favourite.
One gripe is the amount of shakey cam. I want to actually see what's happening in a fight guys, not get motion sickness.
I really liked it, and in hindsight, I was impressed with how it juggled so many characters while introducing one and a half new ones (half because everyone knows the basics of Spider-Man by now), and I didn't feel like anyone was short-changed. I also liked the change of pace for the antagonist.
Spoiler:
And how he's just a normal guy who commits some acts of mundane terrorism and finds out some information. No super-powered minions out of nowhere, no last minute power up for the sake of having a supervillain.
Though I have to ask, did anyone else familiar with the comics wonder if.....
Spoiler:
....we were going to get the Thunderbolts when we found out about Zemo's apparent plan to enlist the Soviet super-soldiers?
"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
2016/05/06 21:28:55
Subject: Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
That hadn't actually crossed my mind... Though the Thunderbolts are second only to Moon Knight and Spider Woman on my list of Marvel characters I want to see on screen, I don't think we'll see them now.
Spoiler:
This Zemo doesn't seem much like the comic version at all, so I don't think he'd work in the Tbolts incarnation... of course, they could always do the team without him, but then they might as well do Dark Avengers, which so long as they also did Osborne properly would be equally awesome, and is on the cards now they have the necessary characters back.
2016/05/07 05:24:11
Subject: Re:Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
I just saw it. I don't have many positive things to say about, but I'll list them first.
Characters are, as usual, well acted
Dialogue is pretty solid.
The few quips that occurred were great.
The action scenes were fun, and some particularly brutal. Not sure if I'd say they've managed to match the Avengers NYC fight scene yet, but they're still not bad.
Spoiler:
Not having a super powered antagonist was a good move.
Aside from that...it dragged on and on and felt bloated down with too many characters.
Spoiler:
Spidey stole the show from me and I respect Panther's regal demeanor, but man was he boring... Ant-Man and Hawkeye felt like they were thrown in at the last moment to even out the teams.
Really, the entire premise of the film was flawed from the beginning.
Spoiler:
How exactly are the Avengers a legit threat to world peace or security?
Iron Man and War Machine rely entirely on tech to do anything. Confiscate that and they're pretty much a non-threat. Stark's overactive brain and ego are, if anything, the only real global threat he has, e.g. building Ultron.
Vision seems like the biggest threat, but the public wouldn't be aware of that because ASFAIK he hasn't been personally involved in any incidents outside of Sokovia.
Wanda feels like another major threat and possibly the most credible. I don't see how she could be properly contained except by Vision/Thor/Dr. Strange or the intricate device they had around her neck.
Captain America is just a super buff guy with some basic espionage skills and a bad ass shield. Any half decent sniper could take his head off. He survives purely on character armor.
The same is true for Falcon (all tech), Hawkeye (woohoo he has a bow), and Black Widow. There's really no one out there (Spetsnaz, SAS, Delta Force, Seals, etc?) that could take them down? Did this entire universe just go full idiot and forget about things like gassing them, snipers, sabotage, etc???
I honestly think BvS handled everything Civil War tried to do better, except for the horrific ass pull of a Cave Troll at the end.
Spoiler:
Superman is nigh unkillable, even by a bloody nuke and who is willing to risk that collateral damage? The only Avengers potentially comparable are Thor and the Hulk, but neither even appeared in the film. There's a good reason to be worried about some guy who just showed those of his race can level an entire city pretty much effortlessly.
Batman had good reason to want to take down Superman and his beliefs were only enforced by the events leading up to the big fight. Luthor also had his reasons and I didn't see a terrible flaw in his line of, albeit crazy, thinking.
The film was solid for me, especially the viciousness of the fight scenes, until the completely unnecessary resurrection of Zod as Doomsday.
Long story short. I am extremely disappointed by this film to the point where I am reconsidering going to see Dr. Strange. I'd rate BvS as being slightly better than Civil War, but neither is a great film by any means. BvS has the edge for me due to a more credible global threat, the best Batman yet, and much better fight scenes (strictly imo).
Marvel's films continue to be popcorn cash grabs. I think GotG, Iron Man, Ant Man, maybe the Avengers and the Winter Soldier are the only ones I'd actually watch again.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
2016/05/07 12:41:46
Subject: Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
I think you missed part of the point It wasn't about a global threat. It was about countries feeling powers when their sovereignty is bypassed at will. It was about their citizens getting caught up in wars that weren't theis and dying without any cooperation or planning.
Overall I really enjoyed it. And unlike bvs it wasn't a mess of coherencey issues.
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)
2016/05/07 12:58:13
Subject: Re:Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
Much more serious and thoughtful than anything DC have done recently inlcuding Bat vs Sups - which whilst it had its moments was a total mess in terms of plots - terrible central character _ Loopy Lex.
Even Spiderman - whe normally I can't stand was well done and introduced, not someone I would go to watch on his own but ok in a film.
Good:
Excellent character work, the moments of seriouness were enhanced by the flashes of humour - which all the best creators realise.
Good Villian - now if DC had their Loopy Lex like this they might have a better film.
Black Panther - again really well done
The fact that it did not really resolve the two view points and explored some intersting issues.
It was again a film where the world is involved. Whereas DC is centered apparently only in the US - the UN are an important element and the film goes to the heart of what happens when you have such powerful people acting as they choose....
Spoiler:
How exactly are the Avengers a legit threat to world peace or security? Because they operate as a quasi-military force which ignores all borders and oversight, they could destroy whole cities on a whim if they so choose. What government could allow this to go unchallenged
Iron Man and War Machine rely entirely on tech to do anything. Confiscate that and they're pretty much a non-threat. Stark's overactive brain and ego are, if anything, the only real global threat he has, e.g. building Ultron. So there you are - he proved to be a global threat - whatmore do you need to ask?
Vision seems like the biggest threat, but the public wouldn't be aware of that because ASFAIK he hasn't been personally involved in any incidents outside of Sokovia. You mean where a city got dropped out of the air - that Sukovia - thats why the accords are named after it! Vision is imensley powerful and the governments and their military will be aware of him and thats who is going to push for this.
Wanda feels like another major threat and possibly the most credible. I don't see how she could be properly contained except by Vision/Thor/Dr. Strange or the intricate device they had around her neck. Really - well she is a powerful telekentic in theis version - Thor, Hulk and Vsion are likely more powerful - especially since we know Vision is not going to fight Wanda...........
Captain America is just a super buff guy with some basic espionage skills and a bad ass shield. Any half decent sniper could take his head off. He survives purely on character armor. Well Duh - and Batman does not survive on character armour - jeesh
The same is true for Falcon (all tech), Hawkeye (woohoo he has a bow), and Black Widow. There's really no one out there (Spetsnaz, SAS, Delta Force, Seals, etc?) that could take them down? Did this entire universe just go full idiot and forget about things like gassing them, snipers, sabotage, etc???
See above........
Bad
Why they had to use Shaky cam fight footage I don't know - really annoying
Whilst entertaining the airport fight was a bit like most of the Bat vs Sups film - just fuilfilling the tag line of the film - nice pay off with war machine though
No Pepper or walk ons for signifcant others :(
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/07 13:01:55
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Iron Man and War Machine rely entirely on tech to do anything. Confiscate that and they're pretty much a non-threat. Stark's overactive brain and ego are, if anything, the only real global threat he has, e.g. building Ultron.
The same is true for Falcon (all tech), Hawkeye (woohoo he has a bow), and Black Widow. There's really no one out there (Spetsnaz, SAS, Delta Force, Seals, etc?) that could take them down? Did this entire universe just go full idiot and forget about things like gassing them, snipers, [i]sabotage, etc???[/i]
Spoiler:
Did you miss Iron man 2? Because confiscating his armour was the entire point of Iron Man 2. It didn't happen because legally they couldn't take his property. Even Rhodey 'taking' the mark 2 was Tony essentially giving it to him because he thought he was going to die. He put up a fight because his ego wouldn't let him just hand it over.
Regarding the final point. Did you watch the film? I know you saw it, but did you pay attention? Because sabotage was the entire plot of Civil War. Not sabotage with a bomb, but sabotage through misdirection to make them tear themselves apart.
Not saying there isn't a healthy amount of plot armour. Superhero stuff relies on it. As you say, a decent sniper could end a lot of this. It's part of the suspension of disbeleif you have when you go into watching a superhero film.
2016/05/08 00:34:05
Subject: Re:Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
Iron Man and War Machine rely entirely on tech to do anything. Confiscate that and they're pretty much a non-threat. Stark's overactive brain and ego are, if anything, the only real global threat he has, e.g. building Ultron.
The same is true for Falcon (all tech), Hawkeye (woohoo he has a bow), and Black Widow. There's really no one out there (Spetsnaz, SAS, Delta Force, Seals, etc?) that could take them down? Did this entire universe just go full idiot and forget about things like gassing them, snipers, [i]sabotage, etc???[/i]
Spoiler:
Did you miss Iron man 2? Because confiscating his armour was the entire point of Iron Man 2. It didn't happen because legally they couldn't take his property. Even Rhodey 'taking' the mark 2 was Tony essentially giving it to him because he thought he was going to die. He put up a fight because his ego wouldn't let him just hand it over.
Regarding the final point. Did you watch the film? I know you saw it, but did you pay attention? Because sabotage was the entire plot of Civil War. Not sabotage with a bomb, but sabotage through misdirection to make them tear themselves apart.
Not saying there isn't a healthy amount of plot armour. Superhero stuff relies on it. As you say, a decent sniper could end a lot of this. It's part of the suspension of disbeleif you have when you go into watching a superhero film.
Spoiler:
I've seen every Marvel film except the new Thor. My point is just that there are so many ways to take down the Avengers that they don't seem a credible threat on any level (outside of Thor/Hulk being virtually unstoppable). Whereas the only weaknesses Superman has are to kryptonite (used effectively in BvS) and magic (yet to be shown in the DC extended universe). Also, the whole superheroes should be regulated plotline has been done to death already...it was touched on in Watchmen, Iron Man 2, The Winter Soldier, Age of Ultron, BvS, etc. I really don't understand the Marvel fan wankery over this film. It really felt like every other Marvel film other. The film had interesting aspects, but I felt like the whole regulation angle could have just been dropped and that the focus of the film should've been entirely on Iron Man v Captain over the fate of Bucky. Everything else was unnecessary fluff. Yeah, Black Panther and Spidey were well done, but they still felt tacked on.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
2016/05/08 02:26:02
Subject: Re:Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
Iron Man and War Machine rely entirely on tech to do anything. Confiscate that and they're pretty much a non-threat. Stark's overactive brain and ego are, if anything, the only real global threat he has, e.g. building Ultron.
The same is true for Falcon (all tech), Hawkeye (woohoo he has a bow), and Black Widow. There's really no one out there (Spetsnaz, SAS, Delta Force, Seals, etc?) that could take them down? Did this entire universe just go full idiot and forget about things like gassing them, snipers, [i]sabotage, etc???[/i]
Spoiler:
Did you miss Iron man 2? Because confiscating his armour was the entire point of Iron Man 2. It didn't happen because legally they couldn't take his property. Even Rhodey 'taking' the mark 2 was Tony essentially giving it to him because he thought he was going to die. He put up a fight because his ego wouldn't let him just hand it over.
Regarding the final point. Did you watch the film? I know you saw it, but did you pay attention? Because sabotage was the entire plot of Civil War. Not sabotage with a bomb, but sabotage through misdirection to make them tear themselves apart.
Not saying there isn't a healthy amount of plot armour. Superhero stuff relies on it. As you say, a decent sniper could end a lot of this. It's part of the suspension of disbeleif you have when you go into watching a superhero film.
Spoiler:
I've seen every Marvel film except the new Thor. My point is just that there are so many ways to take down the Avengers that they don't seem a credible threat on any level (outside of Thor/Hulk being virtually unstoppable). Whereas the only weaknesses Superman has are to kryptonite (used effectively in BvS) and magic (yet to be shown in the DC extended universe). Also, the whole superheroes should be regulated plotline has been done to death already...it was touched on in Watchmen, Iron Man 2, The Winter Soldier, Age of Ultron, BvS, etc. I really don't understand the Marvel fan wankery over this film. It really felt like every other Marvel film other. The film had interesting aspects, but I felt like the whole regulation angle could have just been dropped and that the focus of the film should've been entirely on Iron Man v Captain over the fate of Bucky. Everything else was unnecessary fluff. Yeah, Black Panther and Spidey were well done, but they still felt tacked on.
I just...what? I assume you know that Captain America: Civil War is actually based on the story arc of Civil War, right? The Whole Regulation Thing is the whole flippin' point and isn't something you can just ''drop'' and still call the movie Civil War. You could argue the story lines are different but it's readily apparent they tried to stay true to the source material because there are many shots in the movie that are lifted directly from page to screen.
And I simply don't understand what you are on about with threat levels. It's not about if the avengers could be a threat to the world, it's about do the Avengers have a place in the world under the govenment because letting this group of free agents travel the world across all boarders to interfere where ever they deem fit with no way for anyone to reprimand them simply isn't an option. They either had to be dispanded or leashed, the one of the central conflicts being Cap doesn't like the feel of the choker.
2016/05/08 02:36:02
Subject: Re:Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
I honestly couldn't care less about how true a comic book flick is to it's supposed source material outside of characterization. The only comics I've ever bothered to read are V for Vendetta, The Killing Joke, Watchmen, From Hell, and maybe a couple other Batman bits. I am not a comic book fan. If anything I'm highly critical of most of the raging absurdity that occurs in the medium.
I enjoy comic book films because usually they're not nearly as silly or just absurd as their print counterparts.
Spoiler:
It's really simple, if the Avengers are a problem, take them out. Who in their right mind would tolerate such an organization to begin with? Only 2 (maybe 4) of them are actually useful against the real big bad (Thanos) anyways. There's really no reason for them to fight and the entire conflict felt forced. Yeah, Iron Man and Captain are gonna beat each other half to death over Bucky. Really? Did Iron Man swallow a thousand idiot balls when he decided to continue going after Bucky simply because the poor guy was brainwashed into attacking his parents...let alone the fact he knew that Zemo wanted him to do so... I mean FFS, he knowingly played into the villain's hands in a much more ridiculous degree than either Batman or Superman did in BvS, but this board is slamming that movie.
The entire movie is riddled with plotholes, forced character intros, pointless character appearances, and just a general lack of consideration for common sense. I mean, god, looking back at it everything was so fething forced...from the very beginning. I could rant about it, but no one would care so there's no point.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
2016/05/08 02:39:50
Subject: Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
Why do people continually insist that fictional characters with a fixed POV adhere to the logic of an outside viewer who is innately privy to information said character is denied?
d-usa wrote:If you want a reality based movie based on plausible issues, then a superhero movie might be the wrong place to start with that...
Funny, Unbreakable, the X-Men movies (particularly First Class and Days of Future Past), Watchmen, and BvS all managed to handle reality a heck of a lot better than the MCU. Sorry that I'm not an MCU fanboy that ignores their shortcomings!
LordofHats wrote:Why do people continually insist that fictional characters with a fixed POV adhere to the logic of an outside viewer who is innately privy to information said character is denied?
Spoiler:
Yeah, because Iron Man doesn't already know Bucky is constantly brainwashed and Zemo isn't standing right there in front of him obviously baiting him into the fight.
That doesn't even begin to touch on the various plot holes in the film.
Spoiler:
Why have the Avengers been allowed such leniency for so long? Because they're heroes? You'd think the NYC event would've been enough to cause a ruckus, let alone the events of Iron Man 2/3, The Winter Soldier, Thor (I guess this was swept under the rug mostly).
Why doesn't the UN suspect Zemo isn't the shrink when they're expecting an older, heavyset guy to show up and instead get a young, slender man?
How convenient of the seclusive Wakandans to be right in the middle of a firefight at the start of the flick.
Yeah, an uber advanced civilization in the dark heart of Africa is remotely believable to begin with...hint: the lack of waterways in Africa are the primary reason they lagged behind the rest of the world in technological advancement. I won't comment on their society or cultures, but in many ways I feel as though tribal societies that are primarily pacifistic are superior to European cultures.
Why is no one worried that the bastard lovechild of Ultron known as Vision is running amok? And god forbid they question the fancy stone in his fething head.
Why can Spidey stop a damn speeding car, but can't take a punch from Captain...even though earlier in that scene he handled BOTH Falcon and Bucky pretty easily.
Why are Ant-Man and Spidey even brought into the fight at all? Teams would've been even without them. Heck, you could even drop the Wakandan subplot and remove Black Panther and Hawkeye from the midst and still keep them even while tightening up the script.
Oh...wait...it's because they had to generate hype for the future movies.
That's all it is at this point. MCU is a behemoth with no end in sight telling mediocre stories with two dimensional character constantly expanding the plotlines to infinity and beyond to generate hype for future movies with no real payoff.
Have they honestly released a film yet that wasn't open ended?
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
2016/05/08 04:21:46
Subject: Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
Yeah, because Iron Man doesn't already know Bucky is constantly brainwashed and Zemo isn't standing right there in front of him obviously baiting him into the fight.
You and I know that. This is a superhero movie, and this is part and parcel for the genre.
Spoiler:
Why have the Avengers been allowed such leniency for so long? Because they're heroes? You'd think the NYC event would've been enough to cause a ruckus, let alone the events of Iron Man 2/3, The Winter Soldier, Thor (I guess this was swept under the rug mostly).
This was covered in Winter Soldier, and a major theme in Age of Ultron and Civil War. You might as well apply this to the entire comic book super hero thing period. Obviously, this is a world where people have governments that let guys in fancy underwear run around (ignoring that every Marvel film has at this point at least one token character who questions why these guys/gals are allowed to run around lamp shading the entire question).
Spoiler:
Why doesn't the UN suspect Zemo isn't the shrink when they're expecting an older, heavyset guy to show up and instead get a young, slender man?
Movie logic.
Spoiler:
How convenient of the seclusive Wakandans to be right in the middle of a firefight at the start of the flick.
95% of all fiction runs on some level of coincidence, in part because life itself is nothing but one giant coincidence. Coincidence isn't really an issue in any story line. Contrived coincidence on the other hand is, but as aptly pointed out they are in Africa. Nothing contrived about a firefight in Africa.
Spoiler:
Yeah, an uber advanced civilization in the dark heart of Africa is remotely believable to begin with...hint: the lack of waterways in Africa are the primary reason they lagged behind the rest of the world in technological advancement. I won't comment on their society or cultures, but in many ways I feel as though tribal societies that are primarily pacifistic are superior to European cultures.
This is a series containing a super human, a guy with improbable skills at shooting arrows, a suit of armor that violates the law of thermodynamics, a man who turns into a giant green monster because he's angry, and a Norse God who is an alien, and this is where you draw the line?
Also;
Spoiler:
Africa is filled to the Brim with rivers. Nile. Congo. Niger? Africa was host to a number of advanced civilizations before European colonization including ancient Egypt, the Sokoto Caliphate, Aksum, Ethiopia, Buganda, and the Kingdom of Ashanti, just to name a few. European Slave tradining and colonization put the stopper on Africa's progress as a region. Prior to that epowers rose and fell just like anywhere else, and for most of history were comparable to major civilizations elsewhere up until the Age of Discovery. Hypothetically speaking, an African country possessing a monopoly on unobtainium could easily become a world power ignoring that this is a movie and a powerful state in Africa isn't even remotely the most absurd thing in it.
Spoiler:
Why is no one worried that the bastard lovechild of Ultron known as Vision is running amok? And god forbid they question the fancy stone in his fething head.
This was covered in a previous film.
Spoiler:
Oh...wait...it's because they had to generate hype for the future movies.
That's the MCU for you. Also, Black Panther is underrated, and OMG SPIDER-MAN!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/05/08 04:24:37
Meh, I agree Spidey and Black Panther were probably the best part of the film. I agree with your most of your points, I just wish comic book movies...could rise above their source material and really say something. It's sad when a deconstruction is the best piece in the genre.
And of course, who doesn't love seeing ScarJo kick ass? I'm just glad that she and Wanda get their due while not being reduced to overt sex symbols like Suicide Squad is doing to to the very scantily clad enchantress.
It's not a bad movie, easily a solid 7/10, but it's not great either. I think the MCU has offered up much better films, even recently (GotG and Ant-man come to mind), but pulled their punches with this one. It was mediocre enough that I'll most likely wait for Dr. Strange to come out on DVD before seeing it and I was incredibly hyped for that movie.
I do think Homecoming will be great though. Spidey is finally on point. It might even surpass Spider-Man 2.
Spoiler:
Cap killing Iron Man during that fight scene would've been a good twist and given his character something to really dwell on.
Edit: This is OT, but on Africa
Spoiler:
It lacks the waterways in comparison to Europe both in regards to major rivers per land and in the sense Europe is a peninsula and has thrived thanks to the Med...I can never spell that right...not even gonna try. Same reason North Africa, particularly Egypt developed so quickly early in history, as well as the Middle East with access to the Arabian Sea, Euphrates, and Tigris. Really though, the developmental rates of countries is best left to another thread.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/08 04:48:18
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
2016/05/08 08:23:27
Subject: Re:Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
and BvS all managed to handle reality a heck of a lot better than the MCU.
Thats hilarious, BvS had some good stuff - mainly Wonder Woman but handling reality - nope, and so no - so law enforcement is happy about a guy runing round the city branding people, using chain guns in public areas - yeah thats reality.............there was no police repsonse to the latter - sriously? They probably would have got the militaty involved. II think you are missing the whole point that Superhero films are not reality..................Oh yeah BvS apparently all the areas they fight in are totally empty - yeah right.
Obviously there is only one "fanboy" in this discussion and it ain't about Marvel.
Spoiler:
Did Iron Man swallow a thousand idiot balls when he decided to continue going after Bucky simply because the poor guy was brainwashed into attacking his parents...let alone the fact he knew that Zemo wanted him to do so.
Jeez did you even watch that scene - or understand something called motivation - he had just watched the guy murder both his parents in cold blood whilst they were pleading for their lives. Anyone on this forum going to take that in a calm and collected manner whilst you are wearing a suit of powered armour and say -"Oh no worries dude I think you were brainwashed so its all good." Then he finds out that Cap knew all this and betrayal adds more emotions.....
He says it himself - "i don't care, he killed my mom" Anyone not understand that????
Bats vs Sups is slammed because its plot, such as it is, makes zero sense alongside the dire casting and directing that led to Loopy Lex trying to ruin the film.....................It is also much much small scale - the world does not take action - a few US Government officials do - the film ignores everywhere that is not America - whereas the Marvel is all about the UN............
Civil War has its faults - the contrived fight scene at the airport - fun but not really needed
- but its so much better than BvS.
The sad thing is BvS could have been a great movie - if they were not so focussed on making an excuse to have that fight and Lex had been portrayed as an actual character not a wanabee Joker. We had both sides of the argument discussed in Civil War with no clear indication which was right.
In BvS we had a the possibility of Superman being cross examined and him able to express why he acted, and be questioned on should he do it. Instead we had another yet another part of the Loopy Lex storyline ruin it.............Storyline wasted, film sadly diminished because of it.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2016/05/08 09:54:04
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
d-usa wrote:If you want a reality based movie based on plausible issues, then a superhero movie might be the wrong place to start with that...
Funny, Unbreakable, the X-Men movies (particularly First Class and Days of Future Past), Watchmen, and BvS all managed to handle reality a heck of a lot better than the MCU. Sorry that I'm not an MCU fanboy that ignores their shortcomings!
LordofHats wrote:Why do people continually insist that fictional characters with a fixed POV adhere to the logic of an outside viewer who is innately privy to information said character is denied?
Spoiler:
Yeah, because Iron Man doesn't already know Bucky is constantly brainwashed and Zemo isn't standing right there in front of him obviously baiting him into the fight.
That doesn't even begin to touch on the various plot holes in the film.
Spoiler:
Why have the Avengers been allowed such leniency for so long? Because they're heroes? You'd think the NYC event would've been enough to cause a ruckus, let alone the events of Iron Man 2/3, The Winter Soldier, Thor (I guess this was swept under the rug mostly).
Why doesn't the UN suspect Zemo isn't the shrink when they're expecting an older, heavyset guy to show up and instead get a young, slender man?
How convenient of the seclusive Wakandans to be right in the middle of a firefight at the start of the flick.
Yeah, an uber advanced civilization in the dark heart of Africa is remotely believable to begin with...hint: the lack of waterways in Africa are the primary reason they lagged behind the rest of the world in technological advancement. I won't comment on their society or cultures, but in many ways I feel as though tribal societies that are primarily pacifistic are superior to European cultures.
Why is no one worried that the bastard lovechild of Ultron known as Vision is running amok? And god forbid they question the fancy stone in his fething head.
Why can Spidey stop a damn speeding car, but can't take a punch from Captain...even though earlier in that scene he handled BOTH Falcon and Bucky pretty easily.
Why are Ant-Man and Spidey even brought into the fight at all? Teams would've been even without them. Heck, you could even drop the Wakandan subplot and remove Black Panther and Hawkeye from the midst and still keep them even while tightening up the script.
Oh...wait...it's because they had to generate hype for the future movies.
That's all it is at this point. MCU is a behemoth with no end in sight telling mediocre stories with two dimensional character constantly expanding the plotlines to infinity and beyond to generate hype for future movies with no real payoff.
Have they honestly released a film yet that wasn't open ended?
Spoiler:
Lets see you watch a five minute clip about your parents being murdered viciously, and the guy who choked your mom to death and bludgeoned your fathers head into a pancake is standing right next to you. Oh, but he was brainwashed? Oh, that's gonna make you feel different and not attack him. Your best friend KNEW he did this, but didn't tell you? Yeah, he tried to spare your feelings, he's still a good guy! Hell no. You're not going to be in your right mind.
The MCU is about being HUMAN. You should try understanding that, Trex. Because your posts make it VERY clear that you don't. Even if you claim to "get it", you clearly do not.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
2016/05/08 11:20:59
Subject: Re:Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
Lets see you watch a five minute clip about your parents being murdered viciously, and the guy who choked your mom to death and bludgeoned your fathers head into a pancake is standing right next to you. Oh, but he was brainwashed? Oh, that's gonna make you feel different and not attack him. Your best friend KNEW he did this, but didn't tell you? Yeah, he tried to spare your feelings, he's still a good guy! Hell no. You're not going to be in your right mind.
The MCU is about being HUMAN. You should try understanding that, Trex. Because your posts make it VERY clear that you don't. Even if you claim to "get it", you clearly do not.
This - so much this................
And of course Batman coped so well after seeing his parents murdered and has nicely moved on decades later - oh wait........guess that's different though....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/08 11:21:24
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Just watched it, and don't really have complaints about the plot. I really liked the plot, actually, you could support both sides of the Avengers. A few minor issues generally speaking, but they're very minor and the suspension of disbelief stifles them.
Spoiler:
Also, I thought Cpt. America knew Stark's parents were murdered, but didn't know Bucky did it? Stark asked him if he knew, and Cpt. said he didn't know it was him, but admitted to knowing they were murdered.
It doesn't change the fact that Iron Man had a good reason to be mad. Brainwashed or not, he was standing next to the person who brutally murdered his parents.
Irishpeacockz-Blackjack needs a pay raise for being the welcomer to the crusade
Palleus-Write a school essay about Kroot! Pride. Prejudice. And Cannibalsim.
2016/05/08 17:20:30
Subject: Re:Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
Mad yes, but how is it remotely acceptable for him to attack and attempt to kill Bucky? And why exactly is the IRL situation of a soldier pushing a rapist lambasted as being wrong and unjustified, but somehow Stark attempting TO MURDER a victim of brainwashing is justified? Talk about hypocrisy sheesh.
BvS and Civil War
Spoiler:
Of course Superman is pretty much a USA only issue. Let's see, 1) Superman is an American citizen, 2) The only major crisis event we know of in universe is the fight over Metropolis, 3) The only intrusion onto foreign soil we know of is the African incident, which led to the US government immediately going after him.
Meanwhile, Thor, Scarlet Witch, and Black Widow are not Americans and there's the question as to what nationality, if any, Vision would be classified. After Sokovia, the UN is naturally going to get involved and there have been multiple incidents occurring with Avengers on foreign soil, dating back to WW2.
Apples and Oranges.
Also, the whole I didn't like BvS because Lex wasn't like Lex in the comics is such a trite argument. We get it, you're a raging comic book fan. Neither I or any of my friends were remotely bothered by his portrayal, in fact we actually liked it. Then again, we're not enslaved to a need for source material to be 100% faithfully adapted. Case in point: I love the Watchmen and V for Vendetta, but I enjoyed both film adaptations greatly, partly because both made some positive changes (particularly the end of Watchmen) that were not 100% faithful to the source material.
Edit: But enough with derailing this thread.
I found the movie mediocre and a waste of $10. Would not see again. I said my piece.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/08 17:47:17
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
2016/05/08 17:51:12
Subject: Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
Is Superman actually a US citizen though? After all, " we found this child lying in a field, no identification, and we're gonna keep him" doesn't count as legal adoption. Where are his birth papers? He's not a stray dog that can just be adopted. He is only a US citizen if his papers were forged. So he's not legally a citizen.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
2016/05/08 20:46:51
Subject: Re:Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
Mad yes, but how is it remotely acceptable for him to attack and attempt to kill Bucky? And why exactly is the IRL situation of a soldier pushing a rapist lambasted as being wrong and unjustified, but somehow Stark attempting TO MURDER a victim of brainwashing is justified? Talk about hypocrisy sheesh.
BvS and Civil War
Spoiler:
Of course Superman is pretty much a USA only issue. Let's see, 1) Superman is an American citizen, 2) The only major crisis event we know of in universe is the fight over Metropolis, 3) The only intrusion onto foreign soil we know of is the African incident, which led to the US government immediately going after him.
Meanwhile, Thor, Scarlet Witch, and Black Widow are not Americans and there's the question as to what nationality, if any, Vision would be classified. After Sokovia, the UN is naturally going to get involved and there have been multiple incidents occurring with Avengers on foreign soil, dating back to WW2.
Apples and Oranges.
Also, the whole I didn't like BvS because Lex wasn't like Lex in the comics is such a trite argument. We get it, you're a raging comic book fan. Neither I or any of my friends were remotely bothered by his portrayal, in fact we actually liked it. Then again, we're not enslaved to a need for source material to be 100% faithfully adapted. Case in point: I love the Watchmen and V for Vendetta, but I enjoyed both film adaptations greatly, partly because both made some positive changes (particularly the end of Watchmen) that were not 100% faithful to the source material.
Edit: But enough with derailing this thread.
I found the movie mediocre and a waste of $10. Would not see again. I said my piece.
You might recall that the alien invasion in Man of Steel affected the entire world - or did that bit escape you. Also the WHOLE POINT of the Skovia accords was to stop the Avengers intefering with events at will and ignoring all nationla boundries - you know LIKE Superman! Its the same issue - except one film actually explores the issue - the other starts it and then has Lex blow everything up for no real reason (like the whole of his part in the movie) - its badly written and wastes so much potential to have a serious element to the film - which in contrast Avengers does.
Superman is a danger to the world - yes or no? Apples and Apples
I never said Lex was poor because he is not like the comics - I have no idea what he is like in the comics as i don't read them - I (and my friends - yeah I have friends too - do I get a badge?) found him so very poor in BvS because he was a nervy, whiny Joker wannabe - full stop . Its nothing to do with comic portrayal - its the fact that so much of the film was wasted on such a character.
I too prefer the watchman film much more than the comics, can't stand V for Vendeta even with Natalie Portman.
I don't why you have to constantly say that Marvel only makes "porpcorn films" and DC majkes somehow "serious" films when neither is true.
I have no idea what you are going on about with soliders and rape and how that relates to Stark?
Spoiler:
Seriously - put yourself in his place - you watch a man brutally kill your mom and dad , he is standing next to you - has never shown any remorse for nay of his actions and you are in a suit of super powered armour - what they hell would you do - shake his hand?? What would Batman have done if you want to go there........................ we never said it was right - try and actually read what people are saying it would help - we understood why he would do it - its a humna thing to do
Jeesh - do you seriously not get that? Really - whats wrong with you? .
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/08 20:48:30
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Loved it. They did a great job and I loved the arc of Black Panther. The dialog, action scenes, and plot were first rate. All the characters were well developed and it was full of fun and drama.
It's crazy, but I grew up on mostly DC comics (Spider-Man was the main exception), but the MCU has been knocking it out the park. I have loved all the Captain America movies and the Russo brothers are awesome.
P.S. The new Spider-Man was so great. They captured him perfectly.
2016/05/09 02:42:43
Subject: Re:Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
Just saw the movie today. I really enjoyed it and may in fact go see it again.
Spoiler:
The story felt similar to BvS, although I enjoyed this movie more. Having a villain doing something other than just trying to attack the Avengers directly was a refreshing change from previous movies.
My favorite scene (probably most people's favorite as well) was definitely the airport fight, especially with Spider Man talking his head off the entire time.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 25 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
2016/05/09 15:54:55
Subject: Captain America: Civil War new trailer page 7
Yeah, having seen this and BvS I come out firmly on the side of this being a much better film. It holds together much more consistently, the reasons for the fighting make sense. The lack of actual killing or even serious injury of any of the heroes is in tune with the idea, which is pointed out, that everyone is pulling punches.
The only non-pulled punches is when panther is fighting cap or bucky and the iron man/cap/buckey fight at the end. And even then only Iron Man was going full out. Cap was never going to kill Stark.
It just flowed and felt good. Villain using the team against itself being a normal human (granted fairly high order given his past) but still human was great.
I enjoyed BvS when I was in the theatre and only came to dislike when I took a second to reflect on it. I enjoyed this more than BvS in the theatre (granted a big part of that is I really love most of the Avenger cast which they hit on the head) but unlike BvS when I got out of the theatre and thought about it I didn't get annoyed and nothing stood out as terribly out of place unlike thinking of why Lex wanted the BvS fight to happen.
Plus the unresolved issues are pretty great for story telling. Even if the fight portion is mostly resolved with Stark the actual law portion isn't. They didn't just wrap up the animosity like they did in BvS.
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)
Legion: Dark Angels 
~1200 | Imperial Knights: 
~2300 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1300 | Tyranids: 
~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: 
~5000 | Kruleboyz: 
~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: 
~700
