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 Peregrine wrote:
This is unfortunate, but every FFG Star Wars game has replacement dice for sale. If you lose the special dice you can buy a new set of them just like buying replacement D6s.


I would hope so. If other factions and time periods are introduced, that is.

But it's also very easy to reach into my massive dice bag or go get some Bicycle dice.

Also, fun fact- my D&D Dice got taken by Qatari police.

"I am capable of acknowledging the cunning of the Xenos. I was amused to discover that an Aeldari weapon classification directly translates to 'Mandiblasters'. That is quite clever, that translation." -Acanthophis Serne, "Death Adders" Chapter, seconded to Deathwatch Fortress 'Dacia'. 
   
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RVA

Big concern with proprietary dice is stock. Extra dice packs sometimes go out of stock for long stretches and FFG core sets usually (always?) have too few dice. Bigger issue: when the game is OOP or, as likely, FFG stops supporting them for 2-3 years before they formally go OOP (and FFG can be ruthless about letting games wither on the vine) the extra dice packs dry up very fast, maybe because the stock was always thin.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/18 07:39:20


   
Made in us
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 Manchu wrote:
Big concern with proprietary dice is stock. Extra dice packs sometimes go out of stock for long stretches and FFG core sets usually (always?) have too few dice. Bigger issue: when the game is OOP or, as likely, FFG stops supporting them for 2-3 years before they formally go OOP (and FFG can be ruthless about letting games wither on the vine) the extra dice packs dry up very fast, maybe because the stock was always thin.


To be fair, if a game is performing so poorly that FFG drops production entirely there probably aren't too many people being hurt by the lack of supply. What limited player base that remains can be served by third-party sellers, like the people making fancy X-Wing dice for people who want something that looks cool.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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 Peregrine wrote:
IMO it's the exact opposite.
I think we're using "clean" in different ways. I am talking about a clean look while you seem to be talking about clean mechanical interactions. So the far-end version of what I'm saying is the folks (usually self-defined grognards) who brook no tokens. They don't want gameyness apparent on the face of the scene. This is kind of a frustrated film director approach. And these guys don't care too much about tight rulesets that test relative player skill. I am not far-end on that spectrum but I find myself leaning in their direction.
 Peregrine wrote:
To be fair, if a game is performing so poorly that FFG drops production entirely there probably aren't too many people being hurt by the lack of supply. What limited player base that remains can be served by third-party sellers, like the people making fancy X-Wing dice for people who want something that looks cool.
Third parties tend to cater to the games that are the most popular (e.g., X-Wing), in which FFG's stock problems are more about high demand than lack of support. So the game I specifically had in mind is Battlelore 2E. I started buying before the axe officially dropped and the cheapest way to get dice was additional core sets (!) although prices have calmed now.

My practice is to always buy additional dice packs at the outset when buying into any FFG line with proprietary dice. But until there is a L5R minis game I think my wallet is safe on this score, generally.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/18 07:54:22


   
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 Manchu wrote:
My practice is to always buy additional dice packs at the outset when buying into any FFG line with proprietary dice. But until there is a L5R minis game I think my wallet is safe on this score, generally.


Save up, just in case
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

 Peregrine wrote:


This is unfortunate, but every FFG Star Wars game has replacement dice for sale. If you lose the special dice you can buy a new set of them just like buying replacement D6s.


Except for the fact you can buy a literal dice-sack of D6s for the price of 6 FFG super-super-snowflake dice. Like everything else with FFG's game/business model, the bespoke stuff would be a lot more tolerable if it wasn't priced like a deliberate attempt to gouge people.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
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 Yodhrin wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:


This is unfortunate, but every FFG Star Wars game has replacement dice for sale. If you lose the special dice you can buy a new set of them just like buying replacement D6s.


Except for the fact you can buy a literal dice-sack of D6s for the price of 6 FFG super-super-snowflake dice. Like everything else with FFG's game/business model, the bespoke stuff would be a lot more tolerable if it wasn't priced like a deliberate attempt to gouge people.


I picked up the star wars dice app for a couple of quid, includes the Rpg, armarda and x wing dice and I guess they will add legions.

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
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We'll find out soon enough eh.

SeanDrake wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:


This is unfortunate, but every FFG Star Wars game has replacement dice for sale. If you lose the special dice you can buy a new set of them just like buying replacement D6s.


Except for the fact you can buy a literal dice-sack of D6s for the price of 6 FFG super-super-snowflake dice. Like everything else with FFG's game/business model, the bespoke stuff would be a lot more tolerable if it wasn't priced like a deliberate attempt to gouge people.


I picked up the star wars dice app for a couple of quid, includes the Rpg, armarda and x wing dice and I guess they will add legions.


Which is predicated on the idea that you A: have a device capable of running the app(either with you when you play, or at all) and B: like using apps - personally I play tabletop games to escape from devices, everything else in life these days is devices and sodding apps.

It also doesn't negate the simple fact that for the 8-10 quid FFG want for a pack of six proprietary dice, you can buy an actual bag of fifty D6s of equivalent quality. There's no justification for that, it's just naked, unashamed greed.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
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Call it greed if you like, but it's still just $10. You're probably spending that much on lunch when you go out to play some games, so I can't really feel too much outrage about the price.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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SoCal




Full 800 point game.

As for the usual thread pollution. It's business. The dice may be on the higher scale, but look at GW's necromunda and bloodbowl dice and it's the same pricing scheme.

Necromunda dice - 8 dice at $12.50 retail
https://www.miniaturemarket.com/gw-300-02.html

SW Legion dice - 15 dice for $14.95 retail
https://www.miniaturemarket.com/ffgswl02.html

Dice are also incredibly easy to manufacture. There won't be stock issues from lack of production, but rather failure to order.

All this reads like way too much, "The Lady Doth Protest Too Much."

   
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Are we complaining about a few bucks now? Like $2-$5? Wow what happened to the days when we use to complain about something being $20-$50 over priced from GW now we are talking about five bucks or less.

How have the times changed on Dakka. As Peregrine said, we mostly spend that money on lunch when in which case would be cheaper to make at home than buying out. I guess if someone has to complain that something is $5 overpriced then they are in the wrong hobby or playing the wrong game.

So again what are we complaining about?

Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
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Davor wrote:
...As Peregrine said, we mostly spend that money on lunch...


If it's normal to send that kind of money on lunch, I see why the FLGS is populated by several 'rotund' individuals.

The idea isn't that they 'cost too much'. But hypothetically...

Go to the gaming club for some 40k, and realize I've lost my dice or left them at home or something. I go buy some more at the local gaming store- even Wal-Mart has Bicycle dice for a couple of bucks.

I go to play D&D on a whim with some friends. I left my dice across town. Well, I can swing by any gaming store- even some basic bookstores- and grab some dice.

I go to play 'Legion'. I left my dice. Unless my opponent wants to share, I've got to track down these special dice or order them.

"I am capable of acknowledging the cunning of the Xenos. I was amused to discover that an Aeldari weapon classification directly translates to 'Mandiblasters'. That is quite clever, that translation." -Acanthophis Serne, "Death Adders" Chapter, seconded to Deathwatch Fortress 'Dacia'. 
   
Made in us
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I really like the models, but the dice and card systems are off putting so I'm not likely to ever play. I don't mind purchasing proprietary dice, for like Bolt Action or whatever, but I hate it when games use color coded tiers for their dice.
   
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On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

That must make your choice of games you can play rather limiting.. !

It's another weapon in the games designer's arsenal, I've lost track of the number of games that I've played that employ either special dice, cards or whatever.

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
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Excellent discussion forum & information collection for Epic and other small scale miniatures: http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/index.php
 
   
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 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
If it's normal to send that kind of money on lunch, I see why the FLGS is populated by several 'rotund' individuals.


Good to see more insults towards other people. But no, $10 for lunch does not mean eating excessively, it just means getting something at least a step up from dollar menu hamburgers. It's very easy to hit the $5-10 range with a small and relatively healthy meal.

I go to play 'Legion'. I left my dice. Unless my opponent wants to share, I've got to track down these special dice or order them.


And, unless the game is a complete failure (in which case you probably aren't playing it anyway), that tracking down probably consists of walking over to the FFG shelf and taking a pack of dice up to the register. Plus, it's not like sharing dice is actually a huge burden. Unless your opponent is TFG they'll let you share their dice in that situation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 zend wrote:
but I hate it when games use color coded tiers for their dice.


Why? As Pacific said, it's a very useful tool to have as a game designer and it works very well in FFG's other games. Why is dice color such a big deal?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/18 22:12:45


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Pacific wrote:
That must make your choice of games you can play rather limiting.. !

It's another weapon in the games designer's arsenal, I've lost track of the number of games that I've played that employ either special dice, cards or whatever.


*shrugs*

This game seems like it should play like a normal skirmish game, but FFG were desperate to keep it unique so they put in their usual board game stuff in it. If I wanted to play a Star Wars board game, I could just play Imperial Assault. Which isn't a bad game from what I've seen, it just isn't for me.

Sweet models though. They're not as detailed or as customizable as something GW would produce, but for the cost and size they're fine imo. Im already down for the starter kit, an AT-ST, and a rebel speeder. I just hope this game survives. Not only so we can get more models, but so actual players don't get left with nothing after their initial investment.
   
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 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Davor wrote:
...As Peregrine said, we mostly spend that money on lunch...


If it's normal to send that kind of money on lunch, I see why the FLGS is populated by several 'rotund' individuals.

The idea isn't that they 'cost too much'. But hypothetically...

Go to the gaming club for some 40k, and realize I've lost my dice or left them at home or something. I go buy some more at the local gaming store- even Wal-Mart has Bicycle dice for a couple of bucks.

I go to play D&D on a whim with some friends. I left my dice across town. Well, I can swing by any gaming store- even some basic bookstores- and grab some dice.

I go to play 'Legion'. I left my dice. Unless my opponent wants to share, I've got to track down these special dice or order them.


You have made some good points, BUT the point that was brought up was price. Someone people were complaining about $5 or $10. They were not complaining what you brought up. So yeah, the person who complains about paying an extra $10 will in most cases spend that money at a burger joint or Starbucks what ever café or junk food to buy snack on.

That said, I think of the reasons I don't get into FF games now is because of the dice. It was cool at first, but now I see that as a novelty. More pita than anything else just like you explained.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/18 23:24:55


Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in us
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!





 Peregrine wrote:

Good to see more insults towards other people. But no, $10 for lunch does not mean eating excessively, it just means getting something at least a step up from dollar menu hamburgers. It's very easy to hit the $5-10 range with a small and relatively healthy meal.


Still fishing for persecution and offense where it doesn't exist, I see. Anyway, if you're spending that kind of money on lunch regularly you are:

-Going to get fat or have some other serious health problems.
-Financially reckless.
-Have pricier tastes than the average person, more power to you.

 Peregrine wrote:
And, unless the game is a complete failure (in which case you probably aren't playing it anyway), that tracking down probably consists of walking over to the FFG shelf and taking a pack of dice up to the register. Plus, it's not like sharing dice is actually a huge burden. Unless your opponent is TFG they'll let you share their dice in that situation.


Oh, cool. I'll just waltz over to the FFG shelf that every gaming store across the United States has.

And TBH, I can't blame anyone for not wanting to share dice. I've seen how some gamers don't wash their hands and cough all over the place.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/18 23:26:52


"I am capable of acknowledging the cunning of the Xenos. I was amused to discover that an Aeldari weapon classification directly translates to 'Mandiblasters'. That is quite clever, that translation." -Acanthophis Serne, "Death Adders" Chapter, seconded to Deathwatch Fortress 'Dacia'. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Peregrine wrote:


Why? As Pacific said, it's a very useful tool to have as a game designer and it works very well in FFG's other games. Why is dice color such a big deal?


I don't like tiered dice. It's unnecessary. Why do I need a Yellow (or whatever color the high tier for this game is) tier dice with less blank facings to show my vehicle has a higher chance of landing shots than my infantry that uses a White tier dice with more blank facings, when giving the units different hit values on a normal D6 can do the same thing?


It's different for the sake of being different, when it doesn't need to be. I'd be all over this if it played like Bolt Action or GW's skirmish games like SBG/AOS/40k.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/02/18 23:44:50


 
   
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Then you have silly gak like the facings for the special offensive/defensive action. You're telling me that the armored Storm Troopers can't block a shot, but the t-shirt rebels can? Makes sense fluff wise, because ST armor is more for looks than anything, but in game it's just dumb. Give the rebels a lower armor save, but a better hit value to represent that they can actually see and aim because they're not wearing dumb helmets.


The Rebels do have a lower armor save and a better hit value. The special action gives the rebels a dodge token, while the Storm troopers special gives them better aim.

   
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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Then you have silly gak like the facings for the special offensive/defensive action. You're telling me that the armored Storm Troopers can't block a shot, but the t-shirt rebels can? Makes sense fluff wise, because ST armor is more for looks than anything, but in game it's just dumb. Give the rebels a lower armor save, but a better hit value to represent that they can actually see and aim because they're not wearing dumb helmets.


The Rebels do have a lower armor save and a better hit value. The special action gives the rebels a dodge token, while the Storm troopers special gives them better aim.



I stand corrected, and I will retract that part of my bitching post.
   
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RVA

Stuff like that reminds me why I was so excited about Legion mechanically back in August. Seems like a solid attempt to translate SW.

   
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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Storm troopers special gives them better aim.


Well if they're just going to gak all over the canon like that, then I'm out...

"I am capable of acknowledging the cunning of the Xenos. I was amused to discover that an Aeldari weapon classification directly translates to 'Mandiblasters'. That is quite clever, that translation." -Acanthophis Serne, "Death Adders" Chapter, seconded to Deathwatch Fortress 'Dacia'. 
   
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Street Judge






RVA

Yeah, but remember 'only imperial storm troopers are so precise" ...

   
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 Manchu wrote:
Yeah, but remember 'only imperial storm troopers are so precise" ...


Maybe they were just terrible at shooting things wearing white. It confused them.

"I am capable of acknowledging the cunning of the Xenos. I was amused to discover that an Aeldari weapon classification directly translates to 'Mandiblasters'. That is quite clever, that translation." -Acanthophis Serne, "Death Adders" Chapter, seconded to Deathwatch Fortress 'Dacia'. 
   
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Street Judge






RVA

If Empire dominates the meta, expect an Ewok faction.

   
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 Manchu wrote:
If Empire dominates the meta, expect an Ewok faction.


Dude, we all know they will. I mean, why wouldn't you play Empire? I mean, that's kinda what I think is going to be the first problem- two people are going to show up with Vaders and boxes of Stormtroopers and just get tired of the same thing over and over again.

I kinda think this game needs to consider adding something else sooner than 2019. X-Wing fell out of favor faster than that in most areas, and it had a wider variety of models and stuff.

I mean, FFS they've got The Old Republic sitting out there with a lot of interesting concepts.


"I am capable of acknowledging the cunning of the Xenos. I was amused to discover that an Aeldari weapon classification directly translates to 'Mandiblasters'. That is quite clever, that translation." -Acanthophis Serne, "Death Adders" Chapter, seconded to Deathwatch Fortress 'Dacia'. 
   
Made in us
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Street Judge






RVA

I highly suspect prequels stuff is largely beyond the license or license holders have been directed to keep references to the prequels to a minimum.

   
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Madrak Ironhide







 Manchu wrote:
I highly suspect prequels stuff is largely beyond the license or license holders have been directed to keep references to the prequels to a minimum.


Did prequels make it into Xwing or Armada? (I didn't follow them)

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 malfred wrote:
Did prequels make it into Xwing or Armada? (I didn't follow them)


I don't think Prequels did, but they did have several ships that weren't in the movies. Some were straight out of the Expanded Universe.

"I am capable of acknowledging the cunning of the Xenos. I was amused to discover that an Aeldari weapon classification directly translates to 'Mandiblasters'. That is quite clever, that translation." -Acanthophis Serne, "Death Adders" Chapter, seconded to Deathwatch Fortress 'Dacia'. 
   
 
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