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Cybtroll wrote:but clearly he has ideas about what he wants and an interpretation to offer to the viewers.

I like to think that everyone has an idea about what they want and an interpretation to offer. Why does Snyder get to blow several tens of millions of dollars on what is essentially a vanity project, and not other directors who do have skill to create a film that's not overly bloated, and a more comprehensive understanding of the characters?

Simply "having ideas" isn't enough to cut it for me.

I didn’t like BVS, and never saw Justice League (any version), but I’ll take a dozen Snyder films over a JJ Abrams film.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Cybtroll wrote:but clearly he has ideas about what he wants and an interpretation to offer to the viewers.

I like to think that everyone has an idea about what they want and an interpretation to offer. Why does Snyder get to blow several tens of millions of dollars on what is essentially a vanity project, and not other directors who do have skill to create a film that's not overly bloated, and a more comprehensive understanding of the characters?

Simply "having ideas" isn't enough to cut it for me.

Well, if you think Snyder doesn't 'understand' the characters and their world...maybe you should check out JJ Abrams' script for Superman Flyby. Which could have happened. This old article from AICN breaks it down:

http://legacy.aintitcool.com/node/13350

Interesting that Moriarty said in that *2002* article that "Warner Bros. seems determined to micro-manage every property to death." LOL. And you can see how the same kinds of ideas kept circulating through the studio over the years. There was another BvS movie in development before BvS. Superman was going to die in Superman Lives and Superman Flyby before he died in Snyder's BvS. George Miller had a Justice League film before Snyder's (that almost happened...as in cast was on location already). Henry Cavill was almost cast for Superman Flyby. Etcetera

Anyway, people nitpick Man of Steel to death, but they should understand that Superman Flyby is what we could have gotten...and could still get.

Exec's get stuck on the idea of cashing in on specific successes. Death of Superman being one of the biggest examples of this other. The other notable example being Venom.

Nolan and Snyder are both phenomenal cinematic photographers, but they have a hard time writing people. Dialogue is not at all a strong suit and most memorable lines are more likely spoken at the audience. There's a lot of depth to the visual storytelling, however and certain people really latch on to that, while others more interested in the people part of things tend to be more repulsed by the same style.

I think the through line with Superman is that the studio execs just don't have much (any?) faith in the character on the big screen. They glommed onto killing him because they aren't sure what to do with him, even if there are plenty of creatives who do. If you consider the recent film efforts (including the failed ones), they're mostly reimaginings of the character or Chris Reeve doppelgangers (because the execs know that worked back in the 70s/80s).

Superman Lives would have been an auteur piece with the weird stylings of Burton. Flyby rebooted Kal-El's whole background and world for no clear gain or reason. Returns tried to duplicate the Reeve/Donner films from decades earlier, even casting a dude who looked eerily like the previous, dead actor when in glasses. Man of Steel was the Nolans' attempt at a more 'grounded' version of the character, helmed by an auteur director. The Coates-JJ enterprise seems to point to a reimagining. Toby Emmerich said "We’re confident that his take on Superman will give fans a new and exciting way to see the Man of Steel.”

I think people can nitpick MoS, but the table was set -- characters, actors, and world -- for potentially excellent sequels...perhaps under a different director. It's not like MoS did BADLY at the box office. It outearned Batman Begins by like $300 million. That's *really good* for the first film in a reboot series. And they've had talented people pitch them on MoS sequels. But the studio has no faith in the character. Unlike Batman. They feel that Batman will always make bank, which is why we get new Batmen every 5 years.

They need to stop making Superman movies and start making Clark Kent movies that have Superman in them.

The amount of effort these videos must take.

https://youtu.be/Q_JeapnFFy4

Also according to #SamaTV’s report, from the 2.2M households who started watching #ZackSnydersJusticeLeague on #HBOMax, only 36% (around 792k households) actually finished it.

In the U.K. the rate was better. From 954k households, 48% (around 458k) finished the #SnyderCut. 5/ pic.twitter.com/IYDkCIztTu
— Luiz Fernando (@Luiz_Fernando_J) March 29, 2021

and that's going to be an overestimate as some will leave it running while they wander off and do something else

(i'd love to know how this compares with a 'standard' superhero movie as while it sounds bad it could be no real different to most)

 LunarSol wrote:
Exec's get stuck on the idea of cashing in on specific successes. Death of Superman being one of the biggest examples of this other. The other notable example being Venom.

Nolan and Snyder are both phenomenal cinematic photographers, but they have a hard time writing people. Dialogue is not at all a strong suit and most memorable lines are more likely spoken at the audience. There's a lot of depth to the visual storytelling, however and certain people really latch on to that, while others more interested in the people part of things tend to be more repulsed by the same style.

Thats a good point and probably why I dislike Nolan films so much - people are just carboard cutouts in front of the imagery - and female characters in particular are worse or non existant.