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I'm thinking about another army to begin and I don't want to choose a Flavor of the Month army like Vampire Angels, Space Werewolves, or Goth Eldar. I want a challenge and I like horde armies like my Orks so I thought why not try Tyranids. According to the Nid 2010 Tactica a lot has changed in the new dex and Nids are a very different beast compared to Orks. There are a few things I have set in mind for an army list and I'm looking for help to get me on my way. My parameters are:

-No Lictors/Leapers
-No Genestealers
-No Zoanthropes
-No Pods
-No DS'ing units (i.e. Raveners)
-Can't decide on using all upgraded Hormagaunts or basic Termagaunts. -What are devilgaunts?

Things I plan to use:
-Flyrant with gargoyle retinue
-Hive Guard

Things I am undecided about but might use:
-Fexes
-Biovores
-Pyrovores
-Rippers
-Venomthrope
-Warriors
-Trygons/Mawlocs
-Tervigons

Trygons are some of the best units Monstrous Creature wise on the table today. 6 attacks base, rerolling to hit with everyone of them as well as 6 wounds is pretty badass at 200 points.

Tervigons are helpful for keeping your horde around, can make it difficult in objective games.

Venomthropes...they help sometimes, just gotta be smart.

I'd add more but I'm not the best info for 'Nids.

I'm pretty sure that a Tyrant CANNOT join a unit of gargoyles. It is not an Independant Character...

Rippers are dangerous, as often times they wind up out of synapse and kill themselves. However, they tie up units well... Pyrovores, no, not worth the points for a heavy flamer that has 1 I1 Power weapon attack.

Biovores are amazing IMO dropping that many Pie plates is delicious.

Fexes are expensive, albeit they can be useful. Old habit has lots of heavy weaponry being shot at them.

Warriors are my second favorite unit in the codex. Nice customability, and the ability to insta-gib nigh anything is good. All Power Weapons is good too...

Tervigons, VERY good when given Catalyst, allowing FnP on nid units is a god-sent, allowing for very survivable units.

Gargoyles, love them, they are my favorite unit in the codex, decent shooters, high mobility, cheap, highly-effective in melee. Easy to fit 60 into many lists.

Venomthropes, can screen gaunts well in their fumes, 5+ cover save is nice, really shine against ork mobs, as they force a dangerous terrain test.

Trygons, RUN THEM IN PAIRS. It may sound expensive, but its the way to go. Your opponent will often be forced to kill one, and leave the other alive and kicking. Good AT, can get Tarpited easily though.

Mawlocs, I try to avoid them, but they have their uses. Yet they rely entirely on that S3 AP2 attack to land on their target.

Oh yes, devilgaunts are gaunts with devourers. VERY deadly, however, I only use them in a pod, in groups of twenty, to drop with my Zoanthropes(Synapse coverage). This gives them 60 S3 shots, resulting in around 3-4 MeQ kills a turn. Around 10 GeQs dead a turn.

EDIT: Almost forgot, sticking a Prime with the Warrior squads is very nice, allowing the warriors WS6 is very good, and allocating the S8 and S9 shots to the Prime to prevent instant death.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Unholy_Martyr wrote:Trygons are some of the best units Monstrous Creature wise on the table today. 6 attacks base, rerolling to hit with everyone of them as well as 6 wounds is pretty badass at 200 points.

Tervigons are helpful for keeping your horde around, can make it difficult in objective games.

Venomthropes...they help sometimes, just gotta be smart.

I'd add more but I'm not the best info for 'Nids.

Just to point out, tervigons can be taken as troops (just recently was told/noticed). Allowing your MC to actually hold an objective...

Thanks for the input but since when is a Hive Tyrant not an IC?

Boris420 wrote:Thanks for the input but since when is a Hive Tyrant not an IC?

This codex states that he is a MC, not an IC, no special rule.

He CAN join his unit of Tyrant Guard however, allowing him to survive longer. Although wings is not bestowed to them.
His Paroxysm is VERY useful with a melee-support build.

Read the FAQ for some clarification/confusion...Frequently Asked Questions usually just lead to more questions...

Yeah I didn't have a dex with me to double check. Do people still screen Flyrants with Gargoyles as a sound tactic?

Boris420 wrote:My parameters are:

-No Lictors/Leapers
-No Genestealers
-No Zoanthropes
-No Pods
-No DS'ing units (i.e. Raveners)

This is limiting a lot of the best units in the Codex out, why won't you include any of these? And you also say you'll include Flyrants and argoyles and maybe trygons and mawlocs, they are DS units too.

And a Tyrant is a MC but becomes an IC when joined by tyrant guard. Screening a flyrant with gargoyles is an OK tactic but the enemy can still fire through the unit, so i think it's best to leave the wings at home and put him in a tyrant guard unit.

Eldar Own wrote:

Boris420 wrote:My parameters are:

-No Lictors/Leapers
-No Genestealers
-No Zoanthropes
-No Pods
-No DS'ing units (i.e. Raveners)

This is limiting a lot of the best units in the Codex out, why won't you include any of these? And you also say you'll include Flyrants and argoyles and maybe trygons and mawlocs, they are DS units too.

And a Tyrant is a MC but becomes an IC when joined by tyrant guard. Screening a flyrant with gargoyles is an OK tactic but the enemy can still fire through the unit, so i think it's best to leave the wings at home and put him in a tyrant guard unit.

I don't take certain units for fluff reasons but I hear you on the DS'ing units. I dont have a dex yet but thanks for correcting me. I think upgraded hormagaunts are a better choice than genestealers. As for the Tyrant I think the tyrant guards are a little pricey so I'd rather take my chances screening him around gargoyles which will provide me with a steady cover save.

I'm leaning towards an army like this:

Flyrant
Gargoyles

Hive Guard

Tyranid Prime with other Warriors

Tervigon

Devilgaunts

Upgraded hormagaunts

CC Fex

Mawloc <---starting to appear good on paper

As a player only recently getting back into nids (stopped playing due to RL/Warhammer/Warmachine pre-5th ed) one of the things I have to say is that a lot of nid forces take a lot of finesse. No longer can you just 1A-2A-3A into an enemy army and expect victory. Our psychic powers are now a huge part of the list--selecting the right buffs and debuffs on the right unit can make a monumental difference in how the army performs.

Expect a steep learning curve as there seems to be a shocking amount of subtlety that wasn't present in the prior codex.

Boris420 wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:

Boris420 wrote:My parameters are:

-No Lictors/Leapers
-No Genestealers
-No Zoanthropes
-No Pods
-No DS'ing units (i.e. Raveners)

This is limiting a lot of the best units in the Codex out, why won't you include any of these? And you also say you'll include Flyrants and argoyles and maybe trygons and mawlocs, they are DS units too.

And a Tyrant is a MC but becomes an IC when joined by tyrant guard. Screening a flyrant with gargoyles is an OK tactic but the enemy can still fire through the unit, so i think it's best to leave the wings at home and put him in a tyrant guard unit.

I don't take certain units for fluff reasons but I hear you on the DS'ing units. I dont have a dex yet but thanks for correcting me. I think upgraded hormagaunts are a better choice than genestealers. As for the Tyrant I think the tyrant guards are a little pricey so I'd rather take my chances screening him around gargoyles which will provide me with a steady cover save.

I'm leaning towards an army like this:

Flyrant
Gargoyles

Hive Guard

Tyranid Prime with other Warriors

Tervigon

Devilgaunts

Upgraded hormagaunts

CC Fex

Mawloc <---starting to appear good on paper

Fluff reasons. Perfectly valid.

Anyway, i won't properly comment on your list until it's actually written, but the units you've chosen are good. If you're liking the mawloc i'd also reccomend having a trygon, one aspect of this list if'll work well with is the devilgaunts. After the trygon's DSed then units can come on from reserve from where the trygon did, through a tunnel, they're not allowed to assault but are allowed to shoot, things like devil gaunts are perfect for this as all of them (that's potentially 30) can fire and none will be shot down beforehand.

I have thought about lots of different lists and am still trying out new ones every single game. Most units are fun, so in a fluff army I don't think you can go wrong whatever you do! Just don't get your precious boosted hormagaunts locked up in CC with a dreadnought and stay away from mech armies.. those are a real pain, at least for fluff armies I'd say. Fluff is fun, I play like that most of the time, but it's no fun losing all the time, which you may do unless you consider all the common mech armies. Bring can openers!

This is the 2k core I use for my 2.5k lists. You can scale it up or down as you need but I think it would be a good starting point.

(2000pts Total)

HQ
Hive Tyrant - Lash whip and bonesword, Leech Essence, Old Adversary, Paroxysm, Scything talons, Wings
Hive Tyrant - Lash whip and bonesword, Leech Essence, Old Adversary, Paroxysm, Scything talons, Wings

Elites
2x Hive Guards
2x Hive Guards
2x Hive Guards

Troops
10x Termagants
10x Termagants
Tervigon - Catalyst, Cluster spines, Toxin sacs
Tervigon - Catalyst, Cluster spines, Toxin sacs

Fast Attack
20x Gargoyles - Adrenal glands, Toxin sacs
20x Gargoyles - Adrenal glands, Toxin sacs

Heavy Support
Trygon
Trygon

EDIT: On Hormies vs Stealers...

Toxin Hormagaunts: 25 gaunts with toxin sacs (200pts)
- inflict 6-7 wounds on the charge against MEQ
- are slightly more mobile with bounding leap
- give you 25 T3 6+Sv wounds

Toxin Genestealers: 12 stealers with toxin sacs (204pts)
- inflict 10-11 wounds on the charge against MEQ
- can threaten vehicles up to AV13
- give you 12 T4 5+Sv wounds
- can infiltrate/outflank
- don't require synapse

Point for point, I think the genestealers are more versatile, more killy and are the better buy unless you are already running a pretty fragile list. The hormagaunts give slightly better survivability for the unit, and work better as a screen for other units. Once you factor in a Hive Tyrant providing Old Adversary and Paroxysm for all the units, the most killy of all is Gargoyles, thanks to the cheap adrenal glands and their blinding venom rule. The only drawback is they aren't scoring.

Maelstrom808 wrote:

EDIT: On Hormies vs Stealers...

Toxin Hormagaunts: 25 gaunts with toxin sacs (200pts)
- inflict 6-7 wounds on the charge against MEQ
- are slightly more mobile with bounding leap
- give you 25 T3 6+Sv wounds

Toxin Genestealers: 12 stealers with toxin sacs (204pts)
- inflict 10-11 wounds on the charge against MEQ
- can threaten vehicles up to AV13
- give you 12 T4 5+Sv wounds
- can infiltrate/outflank
- don't require synapse

Point for point, I think the genestealers are more versatile, more killy and are the better buy unless you are already running a pretty fragile list.

I have to agree, i would consider putting at least one unit of stealers in there. If not, oh well. Also, Boris, by tooled up hormagaunts do you mean toxin sacs, or toxin sacs and adrenal glands?

Eldar Own wrote:

Maelstrom808 wrote:

EDIT: On Hormies vs Stealers...

Toxin Hormagaunts: 25 gaunts with toxin sacs (200pts)
- inflict 6-7 wounds on the charge against MEQ
- are slightly more mobile with bounding leap
- give you 25 T3 6+Sv wounds

Toxin Genestealers: 12 stealers with toxin sacs (204pts)
- inflict 10-11 wounds on the charge against MEQ
- can threaten vehicles up to AV13
- give you 12 T4 5+Sv wounds
- can infiltrate/outflank
- don't require synapse

Point for point, I think the genestealers are more versatile, more killy and are the better buy unless you are already running a pretty fragile list.

I have to agree, i would consider putting at least one unit of stealers in there. If not, oh well. Also, Boris, by tooled up hormagaunts do you mean toxin sacs, or toxin sacs and adrenal glands?

I meant toxin sacs with adrenal glands. I hear they can hurt other MC's and can be devastating, but from a lot of battle reports that i've seen I noticed tooled up gaunts of either kind are not as important as having numbers. I saw an army with a Flyrant, 5-6 Raveners, 20 upgraded hormagaunts, 2 units of 10 devilgaunts, a Zoanthrope and a unit of Warriors. The player was facing mech-IG and had his Flyrant, Zoanthrope and Warriors blown the hell up before they could cause damage by Turn 2 and his devilgaunts were wittled down to nothing with ease and they didn't even get to shoot. His Hormagaunts were able to tie up units but not much else and his Raveners were damn near worthless.

You can't win if the opponent is able to cripple you in the first two turns. Nids survive by three methods:

Cover - Either making the best use of terrain on the table or bringing your own cover in the form of venomthropes, screening units, or mixed unit shenanigans. Nids have pretty bad armor saves generally speaking, and invulns are almost non-existant, so cover is our last line of defense against getting blown off the table.

Numbers - Nids have an easier time of building hordes than almost any other army. Maximize this by being economic with your upgrades. In most cases, you want to limit your upgrades to only what is absolutely needed to get the job done. Also, build in redundancy to your lists. Don't create a list where an opponent can castrate your plans by focusing down a single unit. This doesn't mean you need to spam units though. Two is redundancy and three is spam imo.

Target priority - Give the opponent difficult choices about what they need to target first. The worse you make it for them, the higher likelyhood that they will make a mistake that you can capitalize on, and the less chance of them knocking out something critical to your list. A simplistic example is if you have a tervigon that is critical to your list, put a trygon in his face early on. The same weapons that he would use to kill the tervigon, are needed for the trygon, and while the tervigon is a more important target overall, if he ignores the trygon, it can wreck havoc with his units. It's a more difficult decision for him than if you just put the tervigon on the table with nothing else for his high str guns to fire at.

To address specific upgrades: Generally toxin sacs are good on units that want to be in CC with non-vehicle units most of the time and are S4 or less. On these types of units, point for point, you don't lose many models by adding the toxin sacs (so you don't lose much survivability), and your ability to take down a given target will typically increase substantially. Adrenal glands are good on units that are primarily going to be assaulting vehicles, or are virtuallly guaranteed to be the ones assaulting as opposed to being assaulted.

I'm sure some will disagree with some or all of this, but it's just my take on it.