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Of course, as a Loyal Imperial Citizen, EVERY XENOS MUST DIE, but in a generic sense I really dont like the fact that the Eldar/Dark Eldar, Necros, and (worst of all) Orks are just fantasy rip-offs. You cant even say that the necrons are just Terminator ripp offs, given that they have a vague Egyptian decoration vibe going on some of them, which seems like a pretty overt reference to tomb kings.

The Tyranids are alright - a bit too "Aliens" for my taste and a pretty blatant rip But the flip side of that is if the Orks had a little more "Predator" in their design they would look significantly more alien and sci-fi - which is something I really with 40k had more of. As it is, the Tau and the Space Marines get the awards for the greatest amount of inspired science fiction going into them, with both capitalizing off long established themes of either Grey Aliens + Japanese Mecha for the Tau (which is actually a pretty inspired combination), and the classic Heinlein Starship troopers for the all conquering Astartes. (Which doesnt really need to be unique, because its a fecking awesome concept that has a wonderful place in all sorts of sci-fi. Because if you dont have a starship trooper analogue, then your left with either crappy stormtroopers as mass infantry, or worse a bunch of starfleet officers who don't exactly inspire confidence in terms of imagining heavy ground assaults....)

But anway, I was just wondering if there were others who shared my view that I'd like a bunch more sci-fi and a lot less warhammer fantasy in 40k. It's a nonsense dream of course - nothing will come of it, and i dont mind how an army plays as being inspired by an analogue in the fantasy setting... but space orcs and space elfs and space undead suck big time. The tau shouldnt be the lone standard of a uniquely 40k alien race...

I always thought that part of the charm of 40k was that it had all sorts of little inside jokes and references from the sci fi genre.

Everything is a rip off of everything else.
Current sci-fi and fantasy stuff steals from older stuff and older stuff steals from the ancient fairytales and legends.

purplefood wrote:Everything is a rip off of everything else.
Current sci-fi and fantasy stuff steals from older stuff and older stuff steals from the ancient fairytales and legends.

Yeah, but at the end of the day I prefer the Predator as an a vaugly orcish monster as opposed to the uninspired placing of warhammer orcs in space, and replacing the "c" with a "k". And when will the Efs on the verge of extinction dealing with dead gods cliche get used up? I'd rather see savage elf barbarians rather then yet another Elfs=fallen Atlantis vibe that so much fantasy has, and certainly would rather that tired theme be thrown out of what is a sci-fi setting with much better potential then that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:I always thought that part of the charm of 40k was that it had all sorts of little inside jokes and references from the sci fi genre.

yeah, but I'm not taling what influences it pulls from other sci-fi settings... so much as how stupid I find that the concepts of space elfs and space orcs are.

if you don't like the 40k universe then its probably not the game for you then

Orks are similar to orcs in nought but name, take a look at LoTR orcs and then compare them to the Orks of 40k;

Orcs are slaves to the big bad
Orcs are slim and primitive
Orcs are not naturally industrious
Orcs seem to like following orders
Orcs are basicly goblins

whereas Orks
Orks follow the biggest and toughest Ork
Orks are huge and muscley
Orks have advanced technology
Orks follow nobodies orders
Orks are fungus based lifeforms

If you think everything in 40k is a straight rip you don't know enough about 40k.

I'd like to see italian dwarves but they're either irish, norse or scottish...

Carlovonsexron wrote:

purplefood wrote:Everything is a rip off of everything else.
Current sci-fi and fantasy stuff steals from older stuff and older stuff steals from the ancient fairytales and legends.

Yeah, but at the end of the day I prefer the Predator as an a vaugly orcish monster as opposed to the uninspired placing of warhammer orcs in space, and replacing the "c" with a "k". And when will the Efs on the verge of extinction dealing with dead gods cliche get used up? I'd rather see savage elf barbarians rather then yet another Elfs=fallen Atlantis vibe that so much fantasy has, and certainly would rather that tired theme be thrown out of what is a sci-fi setting with much better potential then that.

Why not get rid of humanity while you're at it? Human are real right? So having something real in a fictional setting is un-creative and according to you should be scrapped. The Orcs in Fantasy and 40k are similar but not that similar.
And Tyranids aren't really "Aliens"(Movie) they are different, maybe they used the aliens from "Aliens" as inspiration but they didn't just copy them.
And also Tau can be said to be copied from War of the Worlds. Physically weak aliens in large technologically superior robotic walkers? Sounds similar to me. And the SM are probably the most copied thing in Sci-fi today.

So does it make you happy that as of current the dwarfs aren't "holding onto the last" but rather are "lunch"?

I support more unique armies, I just wouldn't scrap what currently is. Cliche as many of the armies may be its apart of the story enough to me that to lose it would really be to lose apart what the game is. Of course, they inevitably will be another race that goes the way of the Squats and will give me a reason to be as grumpy as some of the old timers but I'd much rather it didn't. More armies = more fluff = me happy.

is there italien dwarf folklore?

Carlovonsexron wrote:Of course, as a Loyal Imperial Citizen, EVERY XENOS MUST DIE, but in a generic sense I really dont like the fact that the Eldar/Dark Eldar, Necros, and (worst of all) Orks are just fantasy rip-offs. You cant even say that the necrons are just Terminator ripp offs, given that they have a vague Egyptian decoration vibe going on some of them, which seems like a pretty overt reference to tomb kings.

The Tyranids are alright - a bit too "Aliens" for my taste and a pretty blatant rip But the flip side of that is if the Orks had a little more "Predator" in their design they would look significantly more alien and sci-fi - which is something I really with 40k had more of. As it is, the Tau and the Space Marines get the awards for the greatest amount of inspired science fiction going into them, with both capitalizing off long established themes of either Grey Aliens + Japanese Mecha for the Tau (which is actually a pretty inspired combination), and the classic Heinlein Starship troopers for the all conquering Astartes. (Which doesnt really need to be unique, because its a fecking awesome concept that has a wonderful place in all sorts of sci-fi. Because if you dont have a starship trooper analogue, then your left with either crappy stormtroopers as mass infantry, or worse a bunch of starfleet officers who don't exactly inspire confidence in terms of imagining heavy ground assaults....)

But anway, I was just wondering if there were others who shared my view that I'd like a bunch more sci-fi and a lot less warhammer fantasy in 40k. It's a nonsense dream of course - nothing will come of it, and i dont mind how an army plays as being inspired by an analogue in the fantasy setting... but space orcs and space elfs and space undead suck big time. The tau shouldnt be the lone standard of a uniquely 40k alien race...

so, that means the Space Marines have to go to... they're a rip off of many sci-fi genres... oh, and Imperial Guard, so, who's left Tau? oops, a rip-off of anime/manga styed sci-fi. congratulations, you have just ended 40K by showing that it has no originality at all...

FLAME REMOVED BY THE MODERATI. Please don't call people names. It makes you look worse than it does them. -The Mgmt.

BluntmanDC wrote:is there italien dwarf folklore?

Less dwarf and more gnome.

However there is dwarf folklore in flores which sounds a bit like Florence which is in italy

BluntmanDC wrote:if you don't like the 40k universe then its probably not the game for you then

Ypu're right, I'll just pack up my bags and go then.

corpsesarefun wrote:Orks are similar to orcs in nought but name, take a look at LoTR orcs and then compare them to the Orks of 40k;

You can stop right there - specifically pointed out warhammer fantasy, not LoTR.

Carlovonsexron wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:if you don't like the 40k universe then its probably not the game for you then

Ypu're right, I'll just pack up my bags and go then.

corpsesarefun wrote:Orks are similar to orcs in nought but name, take a look at LoTR orcs and then compare them to the Orks of 40k;

You can stop right there - specifically pointed out warhammer fantasy, not LoTR.

Where do you think they got the idea for Fantasy orcs genius?

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

so, that means the Space Marines have to go to... they're a rip off of many sci-fi genres... oh, and Imperial Guard, so, who's left Tau? oops, a rip-off of anime/manga styed sci-fi. congratulations, you have just ended 40K by showing that it has no originality at all...

moron...

Someone seems to not have the conception that my main critique is with the influence of warhammer fantasy in 40k, but of course calling me a 'moron' while ignoring much of what I say must be a true example of skill and calculated logical argument...

Except oh wait. It isnt.

I dont have a problem with influence- Influence is good an inevitable. But the whole sale adoption of fantasy tropes is lame.

purplefood wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:if you don't like the 40k universe then its probably not the game for you then

Ypu're right, I'll just pack up my bags and go then.

corpsesarefun wrote:Orks are similar to orcs in nought but name, take a look at LoTR orcs and then compare them to the Orks of 40k;

You can stop right there - specifically pointed out warhammer fantasy, not LoTR.

Where do you think they got the idea for Fantasy orcs genius?

From WoW, obviously.

purplefood wrote:
Where do you think they got the idea for Fantasy orcs genius?

The inspiration for warhammer fantasy orcs isnt an issue, nor do I care - though its painfully obvious what your point is.

And my point is that orcs in space are lame.

Carlovonsexron wrote:

purplefood wrote:
Where do you think they got the idea for Fantasy orcs genius?

The inspiration for warhammer fantasy orcs isnt an issue, nor do I care - though its painfully obvious what your point is.

And my point is that orcs in space are lame.

You point is an opinion. And you're gonna be fighting an uphill battle because everyone here knows they were taken from Fantasy and no one cares.

I'm not fighting anything, or anyone - you all are the ones up in arms because I have an opinion...

Carlovonsexron wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

so, that means the Space Marines have to go to... they're a rip off of many sci-fi genres... oh, and Imperial Guard, so, who's left Tau? oops, a rip-off of anime/manga styed sci-fi. congratulations, you have just ended 40K by showing that it has no originality at all...

moron...

Someone seems to not have the conception that my main critique is with the influence of warhammer fantasy in 40k, but of course calling me a 'moron' while ignoring much of what I say must be a true example of skill and calculated logical argument...

Except oh wait. It isnt.

I dont have a problem with influence- Influence is good an inevitable. But the whole sale adoption of fantasy tropes is lame.

you're critique that 40k is to influenced by fanaty, wow. its made by a company that created warhammer fantasy battles then created warhammer fantasy in space (thats what GW started out doing

to be honest moron is a good term for someone who thinks they will get a positive responce by going onto a 40k forum and saying you hate 40k. its kind of like a gay couple going on honeymoon in alabama, a moronic idea.

Carlovonsexron wrote:I'm not fighting anything, or anyone - you all are the ones up in arms because I have an opinion...

Up in arms is a strong phrase.
People are objecting to your opinion because they disagree with it. That's what people do. It's what people have always done.
If your opinion is contrary to the popular beliefs of a society or community voicing those opinions will always be met with objections and arguments.
Nothing is gonna change that.

I dont hate 40k - I love most aspects about it. Because lets be real here -the big and central theme in 40k is still how the Imperium deals with the catastrophe of the Horus Heresy and the legacy it has wrought for the Human race.

I love the concepts of an Imperium of Man, particularly one that has so much room for variation and uniqueness and letting people put thier own spin from endless legions of IG to crack chapters of Astartes - and then you get the weirdness of the mechanicum, the dark but fascinating and exciting tones from the Inquisition and neat little facets possibilities for unique characters like rogue traders.

In Human terms, 40k is full of greatness - a unique setting that blends together to many different elements of influence into one fascinating unique whole.

But you take the greatness that has been imbued into the Human factions and compare it with whats going on with the aliens...

...And I cant help but be disappointed. thats hardly Moronic. That's realistic.

Carlovonsexron wrote:I dont hate 40k - I love most aspects about it. Because lets be real here -the big and central theme in 40k is still how the Imperium deals with the catastrophe of the Horus Heresy and the legacy it has wrought for the Human race.

I love the concepts of an Imperium of Man, particularly one that has so much room for variation and uniqueness and letting people put thier own spin from endless legions of IG to crack chapters of Astartes - and then you get the weirdness of the mechanicum, the dark but fascinating and exciting tones from the Inquisition and neat little facets possibilities for unique characters like rogue traders.

In Human terms, 40k is full of greatness - a unique setting that blends together to many different elements of influence into one fascinating unique whole.

But you take the greatness that has been imbued into the Human factions and compare it with whats going on with the aliens...

...And I cant help but be disappointed.

Ahh right. I get what you mean.
You're saying that compared to the general background you feel the Xenos races do not live up to their potential?
That's a feeling i can relate to sort of.
There are many aspects of the IoM i don't like but it manages to work.
Most of the Xenos could use work.

Exactly! And for me the main set ups for disappointment is that while there may be an 'Empire' in WHF, and an "Imperium" in WH40K - the similarities end there. Which is a good thing, IMO, but that lack of similarity does not stretch into the rest of the setting.

After all, if GW is inspired enough to make the Human factions so wonderfully unique from each other in thier flagship product lines, why make carbon copies of the alien races from non human fantasy races? I mean at the very LEAST they could have (and in theory always still can) have at least altered the superficial look of the Ork and Eldar to make them a bit more alien like. To date my favorite depiction of an Eldar is one by FFG which at least trys to make them look a bit more "alien" then the average GW depiction...

There doesn't even have to be much fluff work (well, perhaps more to flesh them out) in a lot of cases - if some of the races just had a bit of a superficial make over and i think that might be enough to do it...

My mentioning of the Tau and Tyranids in the OP isnt to criticize them, but more to point out that GW can and has successful used other influences to make some unique and exciting races. Far from damning them, I'm lauding them!

The thing is though. Orks and eldar (afaik) are from the old Rogue Trader days. They were/are integral to the creation of 40k as we know it. Also Orks provide the funny part of 40k. Eldar have parallels with the High Elves but not quite enough to make the Elves in space.

Warhammer 40k is a fantasy setting, not a science fiction setting.

This may help:

http://www.treitel.org/Richard/sf/fantasy.html

Nurglitch wrote:Warhammer 40k is a fantasy setting, not a science fiction setting.

This may help:

http://www.treitel.org/Richard/sf/fantasy.html

Yeah i can agree with that.
Science fantasy... has a nice ring to it.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
And my point is that orcs in space are lame.

And your wrong.

As for Iom
IG = Empire
SM = Bretonnia
How do you not see that.

I'll just leave this here:

Noir wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:
And my point is that orcs in space are lame.

And your wrong.

As for Iom
IG = Empire
SM = Bretonnia
How do you not see that.

Aren´t empire soldiers better equipped than Bretonnia?

On topic: on of my favorite things about warhammer 40k was that was warhammer in space, sort like what happens 40,000 years after warhammer. (of course Im probably wrong with this part ) I liked it because it felt like a expansion for warhammer.

I guess you would like another type of futuristic game?