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Dark elder (they look ****), elder (they just look like elves, hell gets some high elves and give them guns, can GW get any more lazy?), necrons. (I just don't like the look of them, or sound of there name) Never liked orks either, but better keep them as the only people left to fight is nids, tau and chaos otherwise.

Undead with an egyptian theme IS everything that tomb kings are.

ChocolateGork wrote:Undead with an egyptian theme IS everything that tomb kings are.

way to ignore all of both of the races lore.

Carlovonsexron wrote:Of course, as a Loyal Imperial Citizen, EVERY XENOS MUST DIE, but in a generic sense I really dont like the fact that the Eldar/Dark Eldar, Necros, and (worst of all) Orks are just fantasy rip-offs. You cant even say that the necrons are just Terminator ripp offs, given that they have a vague Egyptian decoration vibe going on some of them, which seems like a pretty overt reference to tomb kings.

The Tyranids are alright - a bit too "Aliens" for my taste and a pretty blatant rip But the flip side of that is if the Orks had a little more "Predator" in their design they would look significantly more alien and sci-fi - which is something I really with 40k had more of. As it is, the Tau and the Space Marines get the awards for the greatest amount of inspired science fiction going into them, with both capitalizing off long established themes of either Grey Aliens + Japanese Mecha for the Tau (which is actually a pretty inspired combination), and the classic Heinlein Starship troopers for the all conquering Astartes. (Which doesnt really need to be unique, because its a fecking awesome concept that has a wonderful place in all sorts of sci-fi. Because if you dont have a starship trooper analogue, then your left with either crappy stormtroopers as mass infantry, or worse a bunch of starfleet officers who don't exactly inspire confidence in terms of imagining heavy ground assaults....)

But anway, I was just wondering if there were others who shared my view that I'd like a bunch more sci-fi and a lot less warhammer fantasy in 40k. It's a nonsense dream of course - nothing will come of it, and i dont mind how an army plays as being inspired by an analogue in the fantasy setting... but space orcs and space elfs and space undead suck big time. The tau shouldnt be the lone standard of a uniquely 40k alien race...

When 40k started it was basically 'Warhammer in Space'. Hence Eldar become Space Elves, Squats were Space Dwarves, Orks were Space Orks (and were acutally names as such on the box). It was a LOT more jokey. Over time they've cut back on this, and used influences from a far wider pool than just traditional fantasy. However, when they decided that 'Space Dwarfs' was a silly concept and scrapped the Squats, there was a huge sense of outrage - people still feel hard done by today about the Squats, so you can see why they're loathe to scrap anything else.

Secondly, one of the great things about 40k IS that it borrows so heavily from other things. That's why models like the Praetorians were so popular - because people wanted to field a 'cool' Zulu-war style army without having to change game systems. One of the things GW encourage is the idea that ANY army is possible. You want to play WW1 Russians against Giant Space Mecha? You can. You want to play Exodite Elfs-in-Space vs Techno-zombie AdMech? You can. This is a good thing.

Lastly, you surely will have noticed how every sci-fi setting has the same basic archetypes for it's races? We have a hard time, as humans, empathising with anything that's totally unhuman, so we tend to invent alien races that are just like humans, but with one facet of their personality stronger. Human becomes a kind of 'default' setting. So, Star Trek has Humans, Angry Strong Warrior Humans (Klingons) and Peaceful Intelligent Long Lived Wise Humans (Vulcans). Babylon 5 has exactly the same, except now it's Menbari and those Russian guys. Traditional Fantasy has exactly the same in Orcs and Elves, or Dwarves and Elves, or whatever. The point is that, yes, they could have created a load of completely non-humanoid original races, but in order for people to be able to get into the game, their Floating Blob Aliens that are Intelligent Long Lived and Wise would still, basically, be doing the same job as elves/vulcans/eldar. The essential characters in a good story rarely change.

I'm just waiting for someone to accuse GW of ripping off blizzard....

Carlovonsexron wrote:

chowderhead13 wrote:Let us see an idea from you, hmm! If you think of a new race that is nor influenced by WHFB or copied off anyone in the Internet. Manage to do this task, and I will not post on this thread. Go.

How about a species of sentient arachno-avians who's main goal is subversion of neighboring species into fighting one another allowing this species to essentially sit back and take on threats piece-meal, if even necessary. An infusion of grimdark might be add by giving them a particular urge to orchestrate grand schemes of show with these "lesser" species, giving them in some whats a tzeentchian &slannesh bend to them if we needed to identify them as being susceptible to any particular Chaos Gods.. Biology wise they are about on par with a human in both strength and intelligence, and tech wise their mechanization have left them with a powerful enough economy as to have a fairly nicely developed tech base from trade - including an understanding of some second hand Imperial tech. Governance is handled through a synod, a strange cross of hereditary nobility ad elected official (think a limited pool of candidates, based off familial descent) with religious and mercantile over tones. These families retain power for themselves based on in jostling between themselves just as much an appeasing the masses through what ever current scheme is though appropriate.

Inwardly virulently xenophobic, it is a race that can "put on a nice face" to deal with other species (such as the IoM) when needed, they look wearily upon the Imperium of Man - having been an Eastern Fringe power for sometime (and far longer then the still idealistic Tau- and perhaps only saved from conquest by the outbreak of the Horus Heresy.) they look to buy themselves time to work up the means to change the balance of power in the Eastern Fringe, potentially by seeking ways to capitlize off the Tyranids - provided that they can fight them, the IoM, and any other threats off.

I dont know if that'll be totally unique, but i figure its a decent first go.

Let me rephrase chowderhead's statment:
Let us see an idea from you, hmm! If you think of a new race that is nor influenced by WHFB or copied off anyone in the Internet,AND that is not completely slowed. Tell us about it!

but seriously? arachno avians? that is just up.

Nulipuli2 wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:

chowderhead13 wrote:Let us see an idea from you, hmm! If you think of a new race that is nor influenced by WHFB or copied off anyone in the Internet. Manage to do this task, and I will not post on this thread. Go.

How about a species of sentient arachno-avians who's main goal is subversion of neighboring species into fighting one another allowing this species to essentially sit back and take on threats piece-meal, if even necessary. An infusion of grimdark might be add by giving them a particular urge to orchestrate grand schemes of show with these "lesser" species, giving them in some whats a tzeentchian &slannesh bend to them if we needed to identify them as being susceptible to any particular Chaos Gods.. Biology wise they are about on par with a human in both strength and intelligence, and tech wise their mechanization have left them with a powerful enough economy as to have a fairly nicely developed tech base from trade - including an understanding of some second hand Imperial tech. Governance is handled through a synod, a strange cross of hereditary nobility ad elected official (think a limited pool of candidates, based off familial descent) with religious and mercantile over tones. These families retain power for themselves based on in jostling between themselves just as much an appeasing the masses through what ever current scheme is though appropriate.

Inwardly virulently xenophobic, it is a race that can "put on a nice face" to deal with other species (such as the IoM) when needed, they look wearily upon the Imperium of Man - having been an Eastern Fringe power for sometime (and far longer then the still idealistic Tau- and perhaps only saved from conquest by the outbreak of the Horus Heresy.) they look to buy themselves time to work up the means to change the balance of power in the Eastern Fringe, potentially by seeking ways to capitlize off the Tyranids - provided that they can fight them, the IoM, and any other threats off.

I dont know if that'll be totally unique, but i figure its a decent first go.

Let me rephrase chowderhead's statment:
Let us see an idea from you, hmm! If you think of a new race that is nor influenced by WHFB or copied off anyone in the Internet,AND that is not completely slowed. Tell us about it!

but seriously? arachno avians? that is just up.

There is nothing wrong with his concept, that was just an unfair and borderline abusive comment :(

However I could say he stole birdmen from the flash gorden movie, the book revelation space, egyptian mythology and god knows what else.

corpsesarefun wrote:

Nulipuli2 wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:

chowderhead13 wrote:Let us see an idea from you, hmm! If you think of a new race that is nor influenced by WHFB or copied off anyone in the Internet. Manage to do this task, and I will not post on this thread. Go.

How about a species of sentient arachno-avians who's main goal is subversion of neighboring species into fighting one another allowing this species to essentially sit back and take on threats piece-meal, if even necessary. An infusion of grimdark might be add by giving them a particular urge to orchestrate grand schemes of show with these "lesser" species, giving them in some whats a tzeentchian &slannesh bend to them if we needed to identify them as being susceptible to any particular Chaos Gods.. Biology wise they are about on par with a human in both strength and intelligence, and tech wise their mechanization have left them with a powerful enough economy as to have a fairly nicely developed tech base from trade - including an understanding of some second hand Imperial tech. Governance is handled through a synod, a strange cross of hereditary nobility ad elected official (think a limited pool of candidates, based off familial descent) with religious and mercantile over tones. These families retain power for themselves based on in jostling between themselves just as much an appeasing the masses through what ever current scheme is though appropriate.

Inwardly virulently xenophobic, it is a race that can "put on a nice face" to deal with other species (such as the IoM) when needed, they look wearily upon the Imperium of Man - having been an Eastern Fringe power for sometime (and far longer then the still idealistic Tau- and perhaps only saved from conquest by the outbreak of the Horus Heresy.) they look to buy themselves time to work up the means to change the balance of power in the Eastern Fringe, potentially by seeking ways to capitlize off the Tyranids - provided that they can fight them, the IoM, and any other threats off.

I dont know if that'll be totally unique, but i figure its a decent first go.

Let me rephrase chowderhead's statment:
Let us see an idea from you, hmm! If you think of a new race that is nor influenced by WHFB or copied off anyone in the Internet,AND that is not completely slowed. Tell us about it!

but seriously? arachno avians? that is just up.

There is nothing wrong with his concept, that was just an unfair and borderline abusive comment :(

However I could say he stole birdmen from the flash gorden movie, the book revelation space, egyptian mythology and god knows what else.

Geonosians... from starwars, bird bugs and there society and weapons seem very similar to what you described..... but thats a mute point.

The point is that GW shouldnt scrap alien races just because you dont like the fact that they took the idea of orks and elves from there fantasy theme. Why shouldnt they? People love orks and elves from fantasy, why not give them a science fiction twist and toss them into this game? O because you dont like it... ok GW oppoligize to your tiny minority of players who dont like orks and elves. Then replace the orcs and elves with bird spiders or tentecle brain monsters... please lol. Tyranids, tua, necron, hell even the DE all have backround far different from anything in warhammer fantasy.

Thank you for your oppinion but its hardly a direct transfer from fantasy and I think GW did a great job at capturing the xenos feeling for orks and eldar, but I dont think GW should sack them because a very small minority dont agree with the rest of us.

/Thread



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Scott-S6 wrote:I'm just waiting for someone to accuse GW of ripping off blizzard....

Love that comic BTW really want to give that to every WoW fan that ever lived... then staple it to the CEO of blizzards forehead. There is insparation... and there is blatant stealing...

New Alien races would be nice, although we do have a good selection so far. They may be almalgamations of other things, but as said before isn't that the point?

You have a whole galaxy with an innumerable amount of star systems, make a race up. Use existing rule-sets and create your own look.

There are quite a few Alien races that are briefly mentioned that you could expand on.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Category:Minor_Alien_Species_and_Factions

And my point is that orcs in space are lame.

And so is the idea of Humans in space. Humans should be wearing plate armour, riding horses, and living in castles.

why would you take a fantasy staple like humans and put them in Sci-Fi? Lame...

lol, so you think introducing bugs is a brilliant idea to save warhammer from lame alien races? Oh brother...

Either way, GW creates races that appeal. How many would like to play huge worms in armor for example? Probably only very few.

GW could get inspired by many cool themes out there - there was an old game called Master of Orion II that had many nice races. Like the Sakkra or something, huge lizard-like guys. But if they release lizards now, they'll be called lame rip-offs of WFB.

I'd enjoy jelly-fish like aliens that use steam-punkish robots. But would you or others? Many want to be able to relate to their armies. A jellyfish...hmmm. besides, it's similar to the Tau. But if they should introduct a new race, they could make it a bit more alien, not a bad idea.

And many LOVE Orks. They're one of the biggest and most important factors of 40k. Are they silly compared to all the other grimdark stuff? Yeah. But many, like myself, enjoy them immensely. If you ever played Gorkamorka you'd think so too.

Carlovonsexron wrote:Of course, as a Loyal Imperial Citizen, EVERY XENOS MUST DIE, but in a generic sense I really dont like the fact that the Eldar/Dark Eldar, Necros, and (worst of all) Orks are just fantasy rip-offs. You cant even say that the necrons are just Terminator ripp offs, given that they have a vague Egyptian decoration vibe going on some of them, which seems like a pretty overt reference to tomb kings.

The Tyranids are alright - a bit too "Aliens" for my taste and a pretty blatant rip But the flip side of that is if the Orks had a little more "Predator" in their design they would look significantly more alien and sci-fi - which is something I really with 40k had more of. As it is, the Tau and the Space Marines get the awards for the greatest amount of inspired science fiction going into them, with both capitalizing off long established themes of either Grey Aliens + Japanese Mecha for the Tau (which is actually a pretty inspired combination), and the classic Heinlein Starship troopers for the all conquering Astartes. (Which doesnt really need to be unique, because its a fecking awesome concept that has a wonderful place in all sorts of sci-fi. Because if you dont have a starship trooper analogue, then your left with either crappy stormtroopers as mass infantry, or worse a bunch of starfleet officers who don't exactly inspire confidence in terms of imagining heavy ground assaults....)

But anway, I was just wondering if there were others who shared my view that I'd like a bunch more sci-fi and a lot less warhammer fantasy in 40k. It's a nonsense dream of course - nothing will come of it, and i dont mind how an army plays as being inspired by an analogue in the fantasy setting... but space orcs and space elfs and space undead suck big time. The tau shouldnt be the lone standard of a uniquely 40k alien race...

To be honest it sounds like your setting yourself up for disappointment if you want the core setting to change so drastically. Show me something original in modern sci fi settings that haven't borrowed from what has come before it. It happens in all Sci fi. Tyranids also whilst they have similarities with aliens xenomorphs are pretty different. Less specialised constructs and they don't fight in the open. They hunt in the shadows. Not very typical tyranid invasion tactics at all.

Lexx wrote:Tyranids also whilst they have similarities with aliens xenomorphs are pretty different. Less specialised constructs and they don't fight in the open. They hunt in the shadows. Not very typical tyranid invasion tactics at all.

apart from genestealers and lictors and a list of other tyranid types

I stopped reading this thread when the flaming started somewhere on page one, but the OP has a valid point. A point that is just as valid as the "why do you hate Tau" thread created a month or so back. Just as valid as the "Space vamps and space wearewolves are stupid" comments that have been made over and over again.

Personally, I feel like there is enough flavor to justify each of the races existing in this universe, and comparing 40k to Fantasy is like comparing a Granny smith apple to a golden delicious apple. They are just about the same thing.

I would like to see more development of each race, and GW has provided this in each new codex. While the origins of 40k may not be original (go figure) the end product will be as different and diverse as you can get. And if you don't like the alien races, well thank god for spess mahreens. Don't let anyone tell you your personal prefferences are wrong.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Lexx wrote:Tyranids also whilst they have similarities with aliens xenomorphs are pretty different. Less specialised constructs and they don't fight in the open. They hunt in the shadows. Not very typical tyranid invasion tactics at all.

apart from genestealers and lictors and a list of other tyranid types

I meant front line tyranid invasions. Not vanguard/infiltration organisms. The similarities with the aliens xenomorph ends when your talking about waves of bugs rushing their enemies in the open. Sorry if I wasn't more specific.

purplefood wrote:Everything is a rip off of everything else.
Current sci-fi and fantasy stuff steals from older stuff and older stuff steals from the ancient fairytales and legends.

I prefer to call it "recycling" ideas.

Nulipuli2 wrote:

Let me rephrase chowderhead's statment:
Let us see an idea from you, hmm! If you think of a new race that is nor influenced by WHFB or copied off anyone in the Internet,AND that is not completely slowed. Tell us about it!

but seriously? arachno avians? that is just up.

Sorry to disappoint you - but "real alien" life out there in the universe is extremely likely to have developed along paths that will seem extraordinarily " up" to us humans. There was recently discovered here on our own lovelly Terra a microorganism that laughs in the face of every other [known] terrestial form of life by using a material [Arsenic] that's a deadly poison as a replacement material for the basic building blocks of life, DNA. If creatures that strange whos basic biology of life differ from that of Human life here on Earth, chances are what out there in that big vast galaxy we call home is pretty up compared to our standards.

Of course, that's really your opinion, and you have every right to it, just like I do mine.

corpsesarefun wrote:

There is nothing wrong with his concept, that was just an unfair and borderline abusive comment :(

However I could say he stole birdmen from the flash gorden movie, the book revelation space, egyptian mythology and god knows what else.

Laughing God wrote:
Geonosians... from starwars, bird bugs and there society and weapons seem very similar to what you described..... but thats a mute point.

I'd say that the Tharks of the Barsoom setting are actually the main influence - an unconscious one at the time, but looking at the whole concept there are some similarities, just my critters sort of exaggerate on traits present in the tharks biologically, but are pretty whole sale different culturally. So they got meshed in there along with a slew of other influences. But like I've been trying to point out, I dont view meshing influences as bad at all - its just blatant unoriginal copy + paste jobs that I find rather uninspired, particularly from Warhammer Fantasy.

Mit Gas wrote:lol, so you think introducing bugs is a brilliant idea to save warhammer from lame alien races? Oh brother...

Not in specific: some one just asked me to create an alien race, so I attempted to as a sort of mind exercise. The race as its influences drawn from different things - but it certainly has no direct warhammer fantasy analogy, and the closest analogy I can think of the Tharks of Barsoom differ pretty wildly from them. But it was just a thought exercise more then a legit proposal for a 40K race. (Though if GW decided to buy the idea off me I wont be complaining )

Laughing God wrote:
The point is that GW shouldnt scrap alien races just because you dont like the fact that they took the idea of orks and elves from there fantasy theme. Why shouldnt they? People love orks and elves from fantasy, why not give them a science fiction twist and toss them into this game? O because you dont like it... ok GW oppoligize to your tiny minority of players who dont like orks and elves. Then replace the orcs and elves with bird spiders or tentecle brain monsters... please lol. Tyranids, tua, necron, hell even the DE all have backround far different from anything in warhammer fantasy.

Thank you for your oppinion but its hardly a direct transfer from fantasy and I think GW did a great job at capturing the xenos feeling for orks and eldar, but I dont think GW should sack them because a very small minority dont agree with the rest of us.

No need to try and make me feel special by saying I represent a tiny minority, I dont claim to represent anyones opinions other then my own (I don't mind the thought of being the only one who happens to have my opinion on things - though if other share my view or take a similar one, that's great!) I mean, I dont honestly expect GW to take notice of this thread and then suddenly crap any of the races - but I dont mind expressing my opinion about them either.


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ArbitorIan wrote:
When 40k started it was basically 'Warhammer in Space'. Hence Eldar become Space Elves, Squats were Space Dwarves, Orks were Space Orks (and were acutally names as such on the box). It was a LOT more jokey. Over time they've cut back on this, and used influences from a far wider pool than just traditional fantasy. However, when they decided that 'Space Dwarfs' was a silly concept and scrapped the Squats, there was a huge sense of outrage - people still feel hard done by today about the Squats, so you can see why they're loathe to scrap anything else.

Secondly, one of the great things about 40k IS that it borrows so heavily from other things. That's why models like the Praetorians were so popular - because people wanted to field a 'cool' Zulu-war style army without having to change game systems. One of the things GW encourage is the idea that ANY army is possible. You want to play WW1 Russians against Giant Space Mecha? You can. You want to play Exodite Elfs-in-Space vs Techno-zombie AdMech? You can. This is a good thing.

Lastly, you surely will have noticed how every sci-fi setting has the same basic archetypes for it's races? We have a hard time, as humans, empathising with anything that's totally unhuman, so we tend to invent alien races that are just like humans, but with one facet of their personality stronger. Human becomes a kind of 'default' setting. So, Star Trek has Humans, Angry Strong Warrior Humans (Klingons) and Peaceful Intelligent Long Lived Wise Humans (Vulcans). Babylon 5 has exactly the same, except now it's Menbari and those Russian guys. Traditional Fantasy has exactly the same in Orcs and Elves, or Dwarves and Elves, or whatever. The point is that, yes, they could have created a load of completely non-humanoid original races, but in order for people to be able to get into the game, their Floating Blob Aliens that are Intelligent Long Lived and Wise would still, basically, be doing the same job as elves/vulcans/eldar. The essential characters in a good story rarely change.

Lucid wrote:I stopped reading this thread when the flaming started somewhere on page one, but the OP has a valid point. A point that is just as valid as the "why do you hate Tau" thread created a month or so back. Just as valid as the "Space vamps and space wearewolves are stupid" comments that have been made over and over again.

Personally, I feel like there is enough flavor to justify each of the races existing in this universe, and comparing 40k to Fantasy is like comparing a Granny smith apple to a golden delicious apple. They are just about the same thing.

I would like to see more development of each race, and GW has provided this in each new codex. While the origins of 40k may not be original (go figure) the end product will be as different and diverse as you can get. And if you don't like the alien races, well thank god for spess mahreens. Don't let anyone tell you your personal prefferences are wrong.

Now these are some well crafted opinions that I can muse over for a while

I like that 40K started out as a transplantation of the archetypal fantasy races into a far future space age setting (Humans, Elves=Eldar, Dwarfs=Squats, Orcs=Orks) but over the years, it's evolved further into it's own thing. The Imperium of Man being heavily influenced by the medieval Catholic church is cool. I'd say that Tyranids, Necrons & Tau have all distanced themselves from the WFB origins of the game.

I like playing Tau vs Tyranid games especially as it feels real sci-fi esque to me. but I play 40K because I like science fantasy. It's he same reasons i read 'Dune' or watch 'star Wars' or what have you.

Carlovonsexron wrote:Of course, as a Loyal Imperial Citizen, EVERY XENOS MUST DIE, but in a generic sense I really dont like the fact that the Eldar/Dark Eldar, Necros, and (worst of all) Orks are just fantasy rip-offs. You cant even say that the necrons are just Terminator ripp offs, given that they have a vague Egyptian decoration vibe going on some of them, which seems like a pretty overt reference to tomb kings.

The Tyranids are alright - a bit too "Aliens" for my taste and a pretty blatant rip But the flip side of that is if the Orks had a little more "Predator" in their design they would look significantly more alien and sci-fi - which is something I really with 40k had more of. As it is, the Tau and the Space Marines get the awards for the greatest amount of inspired science fiction going into them, with both capitalizing off long established themes of either Grey Aliens + Japanese Mecha for the Tau (which is actually a pretty inspired combination), and the classic Heinlein Starship troopers for the all conquering Astartes. (Which doesnt really need to be unique, because its a fecking awesome concept that has a wonderful place in all sorts of sci-fi. Because if you dont have a starship trooper analogue, then your left with either crappy stormtroopers as mass infantry, or worse a bunch of starfleet officers who don't exactly inspire confidence in terms of imagining heavy ground assaults....)

But anway, I was just wondering if there were others who shared my view that I'd like a bunch more sci-fi and a lot less warhammer fantasy in 40k. It's a nonsense dream of course - nothing will come of it, and i dont mind how an army plays as being inspired by an analogue in the fantasy setting... but space orcs and space elfs and space undead suck big time. The tau shouldnt be the lone standard of a uniquely 40k alien race...

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA HAvE YOu EVER SEEn one of the original tyranids??!??!
THey looked like deformed people with funny weapons XD

I think thats a terrific point in favor of GW changing things for the better from time to time

I'm pretty sure that if 40k came out today...

-we wouldn't have Orks, or at least they'd look a lot different, and would certainly be called something less DnDesk.

-'nids are Aliens rips but who cares, and they wouldn't change at all.

-Space Marines would be called something else

-Eldar are ok, but the story is a little tired, but they are fine.

-Kudos for whoever wrote the Tau up.

-Chaos theme is really good too.

-Necrons should have a much larger roll

-DE are finnaly getting some much needed attention, I'm glad GW didn't scrap them. They would be huge in a world if 40k came out today.

In my opinion the dark eldar are the least deserving of a codex fluff wise. Compared to other races they have a super miniscule effect on the galaxy

I guess Space Marines are gone aswell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lensman

Power Armor and use of the term Space Marine in the same book.

I always thought 40k being fantasy in space was kind of the whole point. Part of the appeal for me is seeing all these fantasy and sci fi tropes turned up to 11, mashed together, and thrown into a universe full of grimdark.

If you're wondering whether 40k is right for you ask yourself this :"Do I like elves/orks/dark elves/zombies/werewolves/vampires/daemons? Do I think those things would be better in SPACE AND WITH 10X MORE GRIMDARK AND EXPLOSIONS?!??!"

If you answered yes, then 40k might be the game for you.

Surtur wrote:I guess Space Marines are gone aswell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lensman

Power Armor and use of the term Space Marine in the same book.

If you're going to try and mis-read my intentions like that, I might as well point out that the in fluff name of the Space Marines, the "Adeptus Astartes" is quite unique. And that "power armor" is about a generic a concept as "space travel".

There are of course something you cant get around - but for most of those standard sci-fi tropes GW has made the Human factions a highly unique, distinguished entity/group of entities - the IoM and all its various sub facets, despite all its similarities and various influences cannot be easily confused with any other fictional entity. The same cannot be said for its alien factions, and i find that disappointing enough to not mind it if new alien factions were introduced -either along side, or in replacement of some of the existing ones.

Carlovonsexron wrote:

Surtur wrote:I guess Space Marines are gone aswell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lensman

Power Armor and use of the term Space Marine in the same book.

If you're going to try and mis-read my intentions like that, I might as well point out that the in fluff name of the Space Marines, the "Adeptus Astartes" is quite unique. And that "power armor" is about a generic a concept as "space travel".

There are of course something you cant get around - but for most of those standard sci-fi tropes GW has made the Human factions a highly unique, distinguished entity/group of entities - the IoM and all its various sub facets, despite all its similarities and various influences cannot be easily confused with any other fictional entity. The same cannot be said for its alien factions, and i find that disappointing enough to not mind it if new alien factions were introduced -either along side, or in replacement of some of the existing ones.

Well they do have alot of fluff for some of the alien races and i wouldent go as far as "and think they should scrapped"

Carlovonsexron wrote:GW has made the Human factions a highly unique

not really seeing as 50% of it is directly taken from human historical, religious and cultural groups, 40% is taken from other works of science fiction (dune), with 10% true originality (even the tech priest of mars are influenced by scientism, a religion in the foundation series by Isaac Asimov)

Carlovonsexron wrote:despite all its similarities and various influences cannot be easily confused with any other fictional entity. The same cannot be said for its alien factions

they could be easily confused as direct rips not 'similar and influenced pieces', and 'confused with any other fictional entity' how stupid do you have to be to get confused between eldar and high elves or LoTR elves or germanic elves? even a young child can tell the difference (its like saying you can't tell the difference between rambo and rocky)

Carlovonsexron wrote:i find that disappointing enough to not mind it if new alien factions were introduced -either along side, or in replacement of some of the existing ones.

replace an existing race, that would a very stupid move on GW part, it was doable during the trasition after rogue trader, but know it would alot of people off, they could just keep adding allies to the tau, or make mercenary race units (gw has alot of those they could develop)

corpsesarefun wrote:How are necrons anything like tomb kings other in the most basic and broad stereotype? they are undead with egyptian theme and that is about it...

I concur... aren't the Tomb Kings a little more disposable?


In regards to the 'aliens' in general, I think they're great... I used to not like the Eldar/Dark Eldar but they are growing on me.

BluntmanDC wrote:

not really seeing as 50% of it is directly taken from human historical, religious and cultural groups, 40% is taken from other works of science fiction (dune), with 10% true originality (even the tech priest of mars are influenced by scientism, a religion in the foundation series by Isaac Asimov)

I think those proportions are pretty substantially unbased on anything but opinion. I wont hazard with percentages, because I'd just be making them up, but the entire idea of the horus heresy splitting the galaxy that would be indisputably human dominated if not for that, the primarchs, the Astartes legions, (and the dividing up up into Astartes chapters post heresy), galactic inquisition based around ACTUAL deamon hunting rather then just solely for rooting out political dissidents, ect...

Perhaps these all do pop up prior to GW, but off the top of my head I certainly cant place them in any other fiction - and those are some of the primary pillars around which the rest of the fluff is based upon.

BluntmanDC wrote:

they could be easily confused as direct rips not 'similar and influenced pieces', and 'confused with any other fictional entity' how stupid do you have to be to get confused between eldar and high elves or LoTR elves or germanic elves? even a young child can tell the difference (its like saying you can't tell the difference between rambo and rocky)

Who said anything about LoTR? "Confusion" does not mean litterlll being able to not be able to tell the difference between two things, its an alitteration to not being so based on something that someone who is not well versed in an understanding of the subject can tell its influences.

A layman on the street will not be able to tell you more then perhaps 3 of the dozens of influences that seems to have gone into the IoM. Orks by contrast? Fairly obvious nowadays. And per the eldar, I'm sure showing a few pics of what the eldar look like under those helmets will be a dead give away for space elfs.

BluntmanDC wrote:
replace an existing race, that would a very stupid move on GW part, it was doable during the trasition after rogue trader, but know it would alot of people off, they could just keep adding allies to the tau, or make mercenary race units (gw has alot of those they could develop)

I dont actually think it will happen, or that even any other then me wouldnt mind it happening - but I certainly wouldnt mind it, and that was my point. I'm not pretending to speak on behalf of you, or anyone else.

I would stop playing my Space Elves if there were Space Cats with guns and tails!

Also Having a diversity of armies makes it more fun and draws more people in. I would have never played 40k if there were only humans.

That being said i would like to see some more interesting aliens.