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Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

Sunny Side Up wrote:
I don't get the complaining. Stuff is super-powerful.

Why do Marines who already have T4 and power armour, as well as a fight twice strat to wrap models get no-overwatch utility stuffed down their throat while Ynnari as the supposed cc-Eldar variant with T3, 5+ models get's none of that? Not to mention doctrines, etc.. on Marine armies that already throw vastly more dice around.

If all Ynnari got in PA1 were just one of the things from just the BT preview, I'd be ecstatic.


You'd be extatic for a Stratagem that only works when charging out of a (hilariously overcosted) vehicle? You do you I guess, but it really isn't a good Stratagem at all.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in gb
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
I don't get the complaining. Stuff is super-powerful.

Why do Marines who already have T4 and power armour, as well as a fight twice strat to wrap models get no-overwatch utility stuffed down their throat while Ynnari as the supposed cc-Eldar variant with T3, 5+ models get's none of that? Not to mention doctrines, etc.. on Marine armies that already throw vastly more dice around.

If all Ynnari got in PA1 were just one of the things from just the BT preview, I'd be ecstatic.


You'd be extatic for a Stratagem that only works when charging out of a (hilariously overcosted) vehicle? You do you I guess, but it really isn't a good Stratagem at all.


I think the reason he'd be happy to get the stratagem previewed is because it would at least be something. Ynnari players got only a reprint of their WD rules in PA1. Imagine that. Imagine if BT got nothing new in this PA volume, only a reprint of previously released rules. I doubt you'd be happy.

You can almost guarantee that if there's a stratagem so specific it buffs a unit disembarking from a LRC, there will a)be a way to disembark after moving in the LRC and/or b)the LRC will be buffed/get a points drop to make it much more appealing.
   
Made in eu
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





This just proves how little GW understands close combat

The doctrine does look nice for large crusader squads, auto-wounding vehicles with a ton of chainsword attacks isn't that bad. I learned to hate the primaris bolters which do the same.


 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in fi
Dakka Veteran






 Jidmah wrote:
This just proves how little GW understands close combat

The doctrine does look nice for large crusader squads, auto-wounding vehicles with a ton of chainsword attacks isn't that bad. I learned to hate the primaris bolters which do the same.



Knights of Sigismund explicitly doesn't work against Vehicles, though.

Heavily converted tall scaled 30k / 40k loyalist Death Guard blog here, C&C welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page
Now with titans! Legio Favilla walks! 
   
Made in eu
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





 Sherrypie wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
This just proves how little GW understands close combat

The doctrine does look nice for large crusader squads, auto-wounding vehicles with a ton of chainsword attacks isn't that bad. I learned to hate the primaris bolters which do the same.



Knights of Sigismund explicitly doesn't work against Vehicles, though.




Ok, then it's just the first line.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
I don't get the complaining. Stuff is super-powerful.

Why do Marines who already have T4 and power armour, as well as a fight twice strat to wrap models get no-overwatch utility stuffed down their throat while Ynnari as the supposed cc-Eldar variant with T3, 5+ models get's none of that? Not to mention doctrines, etc.. on Marine armies that already throw vastly more dice around.

If all Ynnari got in PA1 were just one of the things from just the BT preview, I'd be ecstatic.


You'd be extatic for a Stratagem that only works when charging out of a (hilariously overcosted) vehicle? You do you I guess, but it really isn't a good Stratagem at all.


I think the reason he'd be happy to get the stratagem previewed is because it would at least be something. Ynnari players got only a reprint of their WD rules in PA1. Imagine that. Imagine if BT got nothing new in this PA volume, only a reprint of previously released rules. I doubt you'd be happy.

You can almost guarantee that if there's a stratagem so specific it buffs a unit disembarking from a LRC, there will a)be a way to disembark after moving in the LRC and/or b)the LRC will be buffed/get a points drop to make it much more appealing.


Or c) Games Workshop doesn't understand how melee works in 8th edition and there will be no changes because the Stratagem works, it's just weak.

I'd happily trade the constant stream of releases that don't do a whole lot for my Templars (jury still out for the PA book) for rules that lets me play my army as something that isn't just "why am I not playing Ultramarines?". Rules for the sake of rules is meaningless, they're a means to an end, not an end in themselves.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in eu
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





I'd wait for the templar-specific prayers. Those have the potential to be really powerful, but might turn out useless anyways.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

An extra attack for a charging unit is good, so at least the litanies are off to an OK start.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Texas

The strat left me feeling a bit underwhelmed, but I will reserve judgement until we see the full release.

If people could stop complaining about PA, and using that to shame BT players from having early opinions on what has been revealed so far that would be nice. There are other threads available to complain about PA. Take it there.

No Pity! No Remorse! No fear! 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





UK

ugh so much for a chaos article today then!

 
   
Made in us
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster




Australia

At least the new Sisters models are great...but yeah a bit miffed. Hopefully we get our preview tomorrow, and it's more than just one item per Legion.

Sons of Horus 29th Company 
   
Made in gb
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes




 Marshal Loss wrote:
At least the new Sisters models are great...but yeah a bit miffed. Hopefully we get our preview tomorrow, and it's more than just one item per Legion.


My inner cynic tells me they're dangling new shines to distract because the chaos content will be underwhelming, although I'd love to be wrong!
   
Made in gb
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
I don't get the complaining. Stuff is super-powerful.

Why do Marines who already have T4 and power armour, as well as a fight twice strat to wrap models get no-overwatch utility stuffed down their throat while Ynnari as the supposed cc-Eldar variant with T3, 5+ models get's none of that? Not to mention doctrines, etc.. on Marine armies that already throw vastly more dice around.

If all Ynnari got in PA1 were just one of the things from just the BT preview, I'd be ecstatic.


You'd be extatic for a Stratagem that only works when charging out of a (hilariously overcosted) vehicle? You do you I guess, but it really isn't a good Stratagem at all.


I think the reason he'd be happy to get the stratagem previewed is because it would at least be something. Ynnari players got only a reprint of their WD rules in PA1. Imagine that. Imagine if BT got nothing new in this PA volume, only a reprint of previously released rules. I doubt you'd be happy.

You can almost guarantee that if there's a stratagem so specific it buffs a unit disembarking from a LRC, there will a)be a way to disembark after moving in the LRC and/or b)the LRC will be buffed/get a points drop to make it much more appealing.


I'd happily trade the constant stream of releases that don't do a whole lot for my Templars (jury still out for the PA book) for rules that lets me play my army as something that isn't just "why am I not playing Ultramarines?". Rules for the sake of rules is meaningless, they're a means to an end, not an end in themselves.

Fair, perhaps waiting for the rest of the rules would be apt, before complaining about them though?
   
Made in us
Strangely Beautiful Daemonette of Slaanesh






 Sherrypie wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
This just proves how little GW understands close combat

The doctrine does look nice for large crusader squads, auto-wounding vehicles with a ton of chainsword attacks isn't that bad. I learned to hate the primaris bolters which do the same.



Knights of Sigismund explicitly doesn't work against Vehicles, though.

Works on battlesuits though. No clue if SP can be used against the auto-wound attacks since the FAQ is specific to mortal wounds, but probably not.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
I don't get the complaining. Stuff is super-powerful.

Why do Marines who already have T4 and power armour, as well as a fight twice strat to wrap models get no-overwatch utility stuffed down their throat while Ynnari as the supposed cc-Eldar variant with T3, 5+ models get's none of that? Not to mention doctrines, etc.. on Marine armies that already throw vastly more dice around.

If all Ynnari got in PA1 were just one of the things from just the BT preview, I'd be ecstatic.


You'd be extatic for a Stratagem that only works when charging out of a (hilariously overcosted) vehicle? You do you I guess, but it really isn't a good Stratagem at all.


I think the reason he'd be happy to get the stratagem previewed is because it would at least be something. Ynnari players got only a reprint of their WD rules in PA1. Imagine that. Imagine if BT got nothing new in this PA volume, only a reprint of previously released rules. I doubt you'd be happy.

You can almost guarantee that if there's a stratagem so specific it buffs a unit disembarking from a LRC, there will a)be a way to disembark after moving in the LRC and/or b)the LRC will be buffed/get a points drop to make it much more appealing.


I'd happily trade the constant stream of releases that don't do a whole lot for my Templars (jury still out for the PA book) for rules that lets me play my army as something that isn't just "why am I not playing Ultramarines?". Rules for the sake of rules is meaningless, they're a means to an end, not an end in themselves.

Fair, perhaps waiting for the rest of the rules would be apt, before complaining about them though?


eh I don't see a whole lot of super hard core complaining. they've noted the strat previewed is pretty terriable, people have noted it indicates GW's continued failure to understand melee, which is proably true. but compared to some of the complaining on the fourms it's not that bad. I mean, compared to some of the complaining lately this is pretty accepting.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Texas

I actually started building my LR last night to get it ready so I can use it - don't have any actually ready to put on the table right now - so I'll at least try it once or twice. Might need more than one LR to really be effective I would guess.

No Pity! No Remorse! No fear! 
   
Made in gb
Lethal Lhamean




Birmingham

 DominayTrix wrote:
 Sherrypie wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
This just proves how little GW understands close combat

The doctrine does look nice for large crusader squads, auto-wounding vehicles with a ton of chainsword attacks isn't that bad. I learned to hate the primaris bolters which do the same.



Knights of Sigismund explicitly doesn't work against Vehicles, though.

Works on battlesuits though. No clue if SP can be used against the auto-wound attacks since the FAQ is specific to mortal wounds, but probably not.

Saviour Protocols can't be used against those auto wounds since there's no wound roll.
   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





UK

mugged off again for chaos, just more sisters stuff which is cool but GW shouldent build the hopes up


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the second i post:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/14/chaos-space-marines-why-you-need-faith-furygw-homepage-post-4/

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/11/14 17:02:14


 
   
Made in us
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster




Australia

Absolutely love the Dark Apostle stratagem for the Word Bearers. Looks really cool so far!

Sons of Horus 29th Company 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Marshal Loss wrote:
Absolutely love the Dark Apostle stratagem for the Word Bearers. Looks really cool so far!


It's great. Just too bad that SMs get this strat for literally every chapter and CSM only gets it for Word Bearers *facepalm*

   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator





And suddenly EC can turn Chosen, Noise Marines, you name it, into really reliable Vet. Intecessor equivalents.

Obviously not on par with WE CC units, but this is a pretty amazing benefit. Not sure I would ever not immediately use that strat lol.

Not as enthused by the NL relic, seems situational to me. Kind of like the faction

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/14 17:13:44


The 1st Legion
Interrogator-Chaplain Beremiah's Strike Force
The Tearers of Flesh 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




 Virules wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
Absolutely love the Dark Apostle stratagem for the Word Bearers. Looks really cool so far!


It's great. Just too bad that SMs get this strat for literally every chapter and CSM only gets it for Word Bearers *facepalm*

Yeah that was my reaction.

At least I can stop units from running away from my night lords.
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





Ap-1 cultists.
Why?
First you nerf them into the ground, now you allow AP-1 cultists with cacophony and Votwl?
Like, WHY?
Also detonating an enemy vehicle.....

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator





Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Virules wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
Absolutely love the Dark Apostle stratagem for the Word Bearers. Looks really cool so far!


It's great. Just too bad that SMs get this strat for literally every chapter and CSM only gets it for Word Bearers *facepalm*

Yeah that was my reaction.

At least I can stop units from running away from my night lords.


Does this happen a ton? My circle's pretty limited, so I don't see it very often (most of our combats are resolved first turn). Not really able to judge how helpful it is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Ap-1 cultists.
Why?
First you nerf them into the ground, now you allow AP-1 cultists with cacophony and Votwl?
Like, WHY?
Also detonating an enemy vehicle.....


I like it, 1 CP for 50% improved odds of their land raider or knight exploding seems like a fair trade, especially in a clutch situation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/14 17:17:46


The 1st Legion
Interrogator-Chaplain Beremiah's Strike Force
The Tearers of Flesh 
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Virules wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
Absolutely love the Dark Apostle stratagem for the Word Bearers. Looks really cool so far!


It's great. Just too bad that SMs get this strat for literally every chapter and CSM only gets it for Word Bearers *facepalm*

Yeah that was my reaction.

At least I can stop units from running away from my night lords.


Does this happen a ton? My circle's pretty limited, so I don't see it very often (most of our combats are resolved first turn). Not really able to judge how helpful it is.


it helps out raptors a bunch because they are unlikely to wipe something and want to remain in melee to not get fallbacked and then shot to smitherins.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Nah Man Pichu wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Ap-1 cultists.
Why?
First you nerf them into the ground, now you allow AP-1 cultists with cacophony and Votwl?
Like, WHY?
Also detonating an enemy vehicle.....


I like it, 1 CP for 50% improved odds of their land raider or knight exploding seems like a fair trade, especially in a clutch situation.


Yes i know that, it's great and all, but now we get Cultists bombs back, FOR 1 subfaction that is arguably allready head and shoulder above most.
Further i want to understand the design philosophy, SHOULD i now Pick Cultists or NOT? GW.
Make up your damn mind.
Further, i hate the fact that the best AT chaos has is supposedly more or less a bunch of Autogun totting cannonfodder units.

Also, IF gw wants to incentivice people picking actually CSM, then why implement this?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/11/14 17:21:02


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker





Woo chaos things!! What did world eaters get??? Oh. A mediocre warlord trait and a relic that prevents any exploding attacks/ wounds from happening whatsoever. Par for the course I guess. At least he doesn't hit himself, and Khorne daemon weapon from the other day looks neat.

World Eaters ~a bunch now
Khorne Daemons
Imperial Knights ~4k  
   
Made in us
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster




Australia

Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Virules wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
Absolutely love the Dark Apostle stratagem for the Word Bearers. Looks really cool so far!


It's great. Just too bad that SMs get this strat for literally every chapter and CSM only gets it for Word Bearers *facepalm*

Yeah that was my reaction.


You're both totally right. Par for the course with GW's treatment of Chaos unfortunately

Sons of Horus 29th Company 
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





StarHunter25 wrote:
Woo chaos things!! What did world eaters get??? Oh. A mediocre warlord trait and a relic that prevents any exploding attacks/ wounds from happening whatsoever. Par for the course I guess. At least he doesn't hit himself, and Khorne daemon weapon from the other day looks neat.


well it does in itself exploding wounds. on average 3 mortals per round. Probably more when you use it on an exalted champion.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




Hope nl can use raptors for troops. If we and ec get zerkers and nm why not?
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




The Void

Some nice stuff here. It'll be great if CSM get a proper update.

That Iron Warriors warlord trait is a first for Chaos. No other source of re-roll 1's to wound against everything for them, which is annoying as it ruins their shooting potential.

It's a shame that Apostle of the Dark Council and Combat Elixirs are once per battle. They could have been multiple uses just fine. Combat Elixirs should have only been 1CP as well. I suppose its best used on 20 possessed or something. But its still an expensive melee buff, and melee units aren't exactly great.


Always 1 on the crazed roll. 
   
 
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