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4 AL slaanesh havocs with lascannon and devastation battery is a good unit. Put them in cover in your backfield, with a -1/-2 to be hit, can be a pain in the ass for some lists.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
GW rule writing and FAq quality at it's finest. However as this still is a tactica thread, could we remain on topic?

Sure thing. Working on a Daemon Primarch list. Could use some advice on list-building.

Right now it's at about 1600 points and consists of:

- Mortarion
- Magnus
- Ahriman

- Poxbringer
- Plaguebeargers x 30
- Plaguebeargers x 30

- Lord Dischordant
- Lord Dischordant
- Lord Dischordant

Looking at this as a counter to Loyalist Space Marines, the goal is to throw them off balance. A strong vanguard would get into combat before Tactical Doctrine can kick in (and long before Assault.) They would be backed by durable objective campers and a mechanized rearguard.

Daemon Primarchs are new for me, I've faced them but never played them. Can anyone share stories about how Ahriman + Mortarion performs and what to watch out for? I'm thinking Mortarion gets into combat turn 1 via Warptime and wondering how to do the same with Magnus. I'm concerned they need deep striking units for support to stay on the table more than a couple turns.

Rounding out the list is tricky. I'd like to add a Chaos Knight, but I'm already on 3 detachments and, regardless of tournaments, too many detachments irritates some people. I'm torn between the following:

- Removing the Nurgle detachment and adding 2 Chaos Knights. The downside would be there's no objective campers, I'd have to squeeze points to make this work. The upside would be a serious threat aside from the Primarchs.

- Adding Raptors and Obliterators. The downside would be they come in turn 2 and that might be too late to support the Primarchs. The upside is they can reliably tie up troops / delete problem units.

How is this list legal? Morty and Mag are LOW not HQ... so you have a supreme command... a patrol... and a???? Looking at it again its possible but seems you have to really wreck the list to make it work?

The supreme command has a LOW and there is a superheavy auxiliary detachment.

orkswubwub wrote:

Spoiler:

 techsoldaten wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
GW rule writing and FAq quality at it's finest. However as this still is a tactica thread, could we remain on topic?

Sure thing. Working on a Daemon Primarch list. Could use some advice on list-building.

Right now it's at about 1600 points and consists of:

- Mortarion
- Magnus
- Ahriman

- Poxbringer
- Plaguebeargers x 30
- Plaguebeargers x 30

- Lord Dischordant
- Lord Dischordant
- Lord Dischordant

Looking at this as a counter to Loyalist Space Marines, the goal is to throw them off balance. A strong vanguard would get into combat before Tactical Doctrine can kick in (and long before Assault.) They would be backed by durable objective campers and a mechanized rearguard.

Daemon Primarchs are new for me, I've faced them but never played them. Can anyone share stories about how Ahriman + Mortarion performs and what to watch out for? I'm thinking Mortarion gets into combat turn 1 via Warptime and wondering how to do the same with Magnus. I'm concerned they need deep striking units for support to stay on the table more than a couple turns.

Rounding out the list is tricky. I'd like to add a Chaos Knight, but I'm already on 3 detachments and, regardless of tournaments, too many detachments irritates some people. I'm torn between the following:

- Removing the Nurgle detachment and adding 2 Chaos Knights. The downside would be there's no objective campers, I'd have to squeeze points to make this work. The upside would be a serious threat aside from the Primarchs.

- Adding Raptors and Obliterators. The downside would be they come in turn 2 and that might be too late to support the Primarchs. The upside is they can reliably tie up troops / delete problem units.

How is this list legal? Morty and Mag are LOW not HQ... so you have a supreme command... a patrol... and a???? Looking at it again its possible but seems you have to really wreck the list to make it work?

Yeah, this list is barebones. Most of the models are brand new so I'm taking time to work out the details.

Here's the basic structure right now:

- Supreme command detachment for Ahriman, Magnus and... a couple HQs?

- Mortarion goes into a Super-Heavy Auxiliary detachment.

- The Nurgle units go into a Patrol detachment.

- The Lord Dischordants go into a Supreme Command Detachment.

Now, I could move the Lord Dischordants to the first SCD to bring it to 3 detachments. But that's not optimal, plenty of suggestions to think about in this thread.

I know I need to add a Feculent Gnarlmaw and Noxious Blightbringer to get Mortarion into combat first turn.

That gets me thinking about the Nurgle detachment, it's there to grab objectives and soak up shots. Wondering if it makes sense to add some firepower via Plague Marines at the expense of some wounds.

AFAIK, without those units, there's no high-probability way to get both Magnus and Mortarion into combat first turn. For comparison and contrast, I'm thinking through what I might be able to do with a Knight instead of one of the Primarchs.

 techsoldaten wrote:

orkswubwub wrote:

Spoiler:

 techsoldaten wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
GW rule writing and FAq quality at it's finest. However as this still is a tactica thread, could we remain on topic?

Sure thing. Working on a Daemon Primarch list. Could use some advice on list-building.

Right now it's at about 1600 points and consists of:

- Mortarion
- Magnus
- Ahriman

- Poxbringer
- Plaguebeargers x 30
- Plaguebeargers x 30

- Lord Dischordant
- Lord Dischordant
- Lord Dischordant

Looking at this as a counter to Loyalist Space Marines, the goal is to throw them off balance. A strong vanguard would get into combat before Tactical Doctrine can kick in (and long before Assault.) They would be backed by durable objective campers and a mechanized rearguard.

Daemon Primarchs are new for me, I've faced them but never played them. Can anyone share stories about how Ahriman + Mortarion performs and what to watch out for? I'm thinking Mortarion gets into combat turn 1 via Warptime and wondering how to do the same with Magnus. I'm concerned they need deep striking units for support to stay on the table more than a couple turns.

Rounding out the list is tricky. I'd like to add a Chaos Knight, but I'm already on 3 detachments and, regardless of tournaments, too many detachments irritates some people. I'm torn between the following:

- Removing the Nurgle detachment and adding 2 Chaos Knights. The downside would be there's no objective campers, I'd have to squeeze points to make this work. The upside would be a serious threat aside from the Primarchs.

- Adding Raptors and Obliterators. The downside would be they come in turn 2 and that might be too late to support the Primarchs. The upside is they can reliably tie up troops / delete problem units.

How is this list legal? Morty and Mag are LOW not HQ... so you have a supreme command... a patrol... and a???? Looking at it again its possible but seems you have to really wreck the list to make it work?

Yeah, this list is barebones. Most of the models are brand new so I'm taking time to work out the details.

Here's the basic structure right now:

- Supreme command detachment for Ahriman, Magnus and... a couple HQs?

- Mortarion goes into a Super-Heavy Auxiliary detachment.

- The Nurgle units go into a Patrol detachment.

- The Lord Dischordants go into a Supreme Command Detachment.

Now, I could move the Lord Dischordants to the first SCD to bring it to 3 detachments. But that's not optimal, plenty of suggestions to think about in this thread.

I know I need to add a Feculent Gnarlmaw and Noxious Blightbringer to get Mortarion into combat first turn.

That gets me thinking about the Nurgle detachment, it's there to grab objectives and soak up shots. Wondering if it makes sense to add some firepower via Plague Marines at the expense of some wounds.

AFAIK, without those units, there's no high-probability way to get both Magnus and Mortarion into combat first turn. For comparison and contrast, I'm thinking through what I might be able to do with a Knight instead of one of the Primarchs.

Bottom line your way over your detachment count frankly. Implying that Magnus goes into a supreme command with ahriman and lord discos(?) is a terrible idea, you are diluting your damage. Discos really need to be run as eitehr Flawless host (sweet sweet damge) or RC for cp with CSM. Putting them in a janky Tsons detach you might as well be bringing DP for those price and just run ahriman and friends with magnus, morti and filler.

This list 'optimized' will be ahriman and friends + Magnus, morti in a spuer heavy aux and EITHER the disco lords +/- deredeos, or plaguebearers. Otherwise you are sacrificing a lot of synergy (this is only in my opinion).

Gnarlmaw doesn't fit this list, really only goes with plague drones and plaguebearers for mobilities and maybe PBC...

Sorry if i missed you are playing more than 2000 points and non competitieve, but even the breakdown of detachments you provided are (4) which is one over what is possible in most 2000 tournaments. It seems 'easy' to just drop to one detach, but it really isn't without sacrificing significant strategems / cp etc.

For example @ slave.entity - the current list implies - ahriman + 2 lord disco and magnus in a supreme command (access to Tsons strats) alongside morti in a super heavy aux, and 1 disco lord 1 poxbringer and plagues +/- nurglings in a nurgle detach. Not really sure how this synergizes well together. Is it legal? yes... But are you min / maxing the benefit of the lord discos and magnus/morti - almost certainly not....

Not Online!!! wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Red Corsairs already grant extra CP just for existing. You don't NEED to go the Chaos Marine route and people forget that.

1 additional CP
HURAY:
because you might aswell go the full route and gain more CP for 45 pts more.

It isn't 45 points more. It's 105 points more because you're forced to buy the Chaincannon. Otherwise they're literally just as bad (if not worse because they cost more) as Tactical Marines.
The body count of Cultists is just something to trust more.

I dindn't know that , ow waot, it isn't mandatory and your average bolter is cheap enough with the 24 " doubletap.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

xenoterracide wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Bad.
13 pts for 1 w no FNP, T4.
Ofcourse chances are though that if you skip the chaincannon people ignore them.


Also why waste even more CP for Soulforged when you literally can get the effect with the RC trait and get bonus cp.

Not to mention khorne doublefighting is hillariously fun on Lord discordants.

AFAIK Not legal to double fight with mark of khorne, strategem says INFANTRY or BIKERS, LD is neither.

Feth me sideways.
What's the bloody point then in the 3CP stratagem?

Oh please. The potshots aren't good with Tactical Marines and Ultramarines have so many ways of procuring CP.

I say sticking to the actual strengths of the army. Yeah 3CP is more than 1CP, but do you NEED that much extra CP and is it just a bar justification to say you're running Chaos Marines in a Chaos Space Marine army.

 xeen wrote:
Has anyone tried using either raptors or warptalons with that special detachment that lets them get +2 to the charge with the new hateful assault? It seems like now you might be able to put out enough hits to make a 10 man squad worth it.

Also anyone else not liking the chain cannon havocs? I think they are just to soft once they shoot, and their short range makes it so they are usually exposed after they do. Usually one and done. I don't play against a large amount of hoard armies like Orks, so maybe that matters, but I have been unimpressed. I do like the 4 x Laser cannon ones in the back with AL though. I think the Chain Cannons in the squads is a much better way to use them.

I’m using a new Khorne Daemonkin collection and my WE smashlord & 2 x 5 Warp Talons are absolutely pulling their weight

The CP & points expenditure is partly offset by my Bletterbomb being able to come in at 20 models and hit on 2’s without risking Overwatch casualties

Taking 2 x 5 means that if their charge absolutely must succeed, they get two attempts to charge, with a Khorne Daemon aura giving them a reroll on failed charges. Budget a reroll for a low-high Split and that’s a 97% success rate. They can also conga line in opposite directions off the Lord to allow one squad to lead my main charge and the other squad to bully some deep insertion force that got past my backfield screening. Interesting Altar of Skulls synergy, too.

Gonna build them up to 2 x 8 for Khorne but rarely going to use those numbers, I’ll usually add a Plasma/Melta Raptor squad for utility or a Spawn for backfield screening.

As for Chaincannon Havocs - yeah, much prefer to distribute them amongst Heretacs. Havocs feel best used with high power guns plus Armourbane.

orkswubwub wrote:

Spoiler:

 techsoldaten wrote:

orkswubwub wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
GW rule writing and FAq quality at it's finest. However as this still is a tactica thread, could we remain on topic?

Sure thing. Working on a Daemon Primarch list. Could use some advice on list-building.

Right now it's at about 1600 points and consists of:

- Mortarion
- Magnus
- Ahriman

- Poxbringer
- Plaguebeargers x 30
- Plaguebeargers x 30

- Lord Dischordant
- Lord Dischordant
- Lord Dischordant

Looking at this as a counter to Loyalist Space Marines, the goal is to throw them off balance. A strong vanguard would get into combat before Tactical Doctrine can kick in (and long before Assault.) They would be backed by durable objective campers and a mechanized rearguard.

Daemon Primarchs are new for me, I've faced them but never played them. Can anyone share stories about how Ahriman + Mortarion performs and what to watch out for? I'm thinking Mortarion gets into combat turn 1 via Warptime and wondering how to do the same with Magnus. I'm concerned they need deep striking units for support to stay on the table more than a couple turns.

Rounding out the list is tricky. I'd like to add a Chaos Knight, but I'm already on 3 detachments and, regardless of tournaments, too many detachments irritates some people. I'm torn between the following:

- Removing the Nurgle detachment and adding 2 Chaos Knights. The downside would be there's no objective campers, I'd have to squeeze points to make this work. The upside would be a serious threat aside from the Primarchs.

- Adding Raptors and Obliterators. The downside would be they come in turn 2 and that might be too late to support the Primarchs. The upside is they can reliably tie up troops / delete problem units.

How is this list legal? Morty and Mag are LOW not HQ... so you have a supreme command... a patrol... and a???? Looking at it again its possible but seems you have to really wreck the list to make it work?

Yeah, this list is barebones. Most of the models are brand new so I'm taking time to work out the details.

Here's the basic structure right now:

- Supreme command detachment for Ahriman, Magnus and... a couple HQs?

- Mortarion goes into a Super-Heavy Auxiliary detachment.

- The Nurgle units go into a Patrol detachment.

- The Lord Dischordants go into a Supreme Command Detachment.

Now, I could move the Lord Dischordants to the first SCD to bring it to 3 detachments. But that's not optimal, plenty of suggestions to think about in this thread.

I know I need to add a Feculent Gnarlmaw and Noxious Blightbringer to get Mortarion into combat first turn.

That gets me thinking about the Nurgle detachment, it's there to grab objectives and soak up shots. Wondering if it makes sense to add some firepower via Plague Marines at the expense of some wounds.

AFAIK, without those units, there's no high-probability way to get both Magnus and Mortarion into combat first turn. For comparison and contrast, I'm thinking through what I might be able to do with a Knight instead of one of the Primarchs.

Bottom line your way over your detachment count frankly. Implying that Magnus goes into a supreme command with ahriman and lord discos(?) is a terrible idea, you are diluting your damage. Discos really need to be run as eitehr Flawless host (sweet sweet damge) or RC for cp with CSM. Putting them in a janky Tsons detach you might as well be bringing DP for those price and just run ahriman and friends with magnus, morti and filler.

This list 'optimized' will be ahriman and friends + Magnus, morti in a spuer heavy aux and EITHER the disco lords +/- deredeos, or plaguebearers. Otherwise you are sacrificing a lot of synergy (this is only in my opinion).

Gnarlmaw doesn't fit this list, really only goes with plague drones and plaguebearers for mobilities and maybe PBC...

Sorry if i missed you are playing more than 2000 points and non competitieve, but even the breakdown of detachments you provided are (4) which is one over what is possible in most 2000 tournaments. It seems 'easy' to just drop to one detach, but it really isn't without sacrificing significant strategems / cp etc.

For example @ slave.entity - the current list implies - ahriman + 2 lord disco and magnus in a supreme command (access to Tsons strats) alongside morti in a super heavy aux, and 1 disco lord 1 poxbringer and plagues +/- nurglings in a nurgle detach. Not really sure how this synergizes well together. Is it legal? yes... But are you min / maxing the benefit of the lord discos and magnus/morti - almost certainly not....

Thanks for the feedback. Good points, gets into issues I'm working through right now. While the list will mostly be used for friendly games, the end-goal is to be good for 2000 point tournaments.

It's a Daemon Primarch list. The big challenge is getting Mortarion and Magnus into combat turn 1. I started with the list I'd like to take, the first step is reliably making that happen.

For Magnus, turn 1 charges just means Warptime. For Mortarion, that means a Feculent Gnarlmaw (for advance and charge), a Noxious Blightbringer (for roll 2 dice when advancing), or both. I don't see another way for Mortarion to get there and will probably just go with the tree.

With regards to detachments, fitting 2 LOWs into a list is tricky. Unless I want another LOW with the Heretic Astartes keyword, each Primarch must be in a separate Supreme Command (Auxiliary?) detachment. Another constraint is the Lord Discordants have to be in their own SCD detachment or lose Legion Traits. Another constraint is the 3 detachment limit, I can't have a detachment for Mortarion AND a detachment for Magnus AND a Nurgle detachment AND a Chaos Space Marine detachment.

It's almost like GW thought this through and deliberately made it hard to do...

So you are correct, the detachment requirements means some units I'd like to take have to change. Considering the following options and would love some feedback.

- Dropping the 3 Lord Discordants for 3 Nurgle Daemon Princes in a SCD with Mortarion. Not as good as Disco Lords, but not bad either. The advance and charge from the Feculent Gnarlmaw means they might also get a turn 1 charge.

- Dropping Ahriman. I like him and Magnus together but maybe that doesn't work in a Daemon Primarch list.

- Adding Nurglings and a Noxious Blightbringer to the Nurgle Detachment. That would bring it to a Batallion for more command points and also mean Mortartion gets to roll 2 dice advancing.

This still leaves me with the problem of getting a Feculent Gnarlmaw on the table in the right spot for advance and charge. I thought it could be summoned, but not seeing that rule anywhere. If I have to use Denizens of the Warp, that costs a command point and means I need a Fortification Detachment, breaking the rule of 3.

This might not be what I ultimately do, but it shows there are some paths forward.

ahriman WORSK in primarch lists, what i could change is the battalion and play 3 LoD in a RC battalion, a supreme Ts for magnus and and superheavy for mortarion.

 lindsay40k wrote:

 xeen wrote:
Has anyone tried using either raptors or warptalons with that special detachment that lets them get +2 to the charge with the new hateful assault? It seems like now you might be able to put out enough hits to make a 10 man squad worth it.

Also anyone else not liking the chain cannon havocs? I think they are just to soft once they shoot, and their short range makes it so they are usually exposed after they do. Usually one and done. I don't play against a large amount of hoard armies like Orks, so maybe that matters, but I have been unimpressed. I do like the 4 x Laser cannon ones in the back with AL though. I think the Chain Cannons in the squads is a much better way to use them.

I’m using a new Khorne Daemonkin collection and my WE smashlord & 2 x 5 Warp Talons are absolutely pulling their weight

The CP & points expenditure is partly offset by my Bletterbomb being able to come in at 20 models and hit on 2’s without risking Overwatch casualties

Taking 2 x 5 means that if their charge absolutely must succeed, they get two attempts to charge, with a Khorne Daemon aura giving them a reroll on failed charges. Budget a reroll for a low-high Split and that’s a 97% success rate. They can also conga line in opposite directions off the Lord to allow one squad to lead my main charge and the other squad to bully some deep insertion force that got past my backfield screening. Interesting Altar of Skulls synergy, too.

Gonna build them up to 2 x 8 for Khorne but rarely going to use those numbers, I’ll usually add a Plasma/Melta Raptor squad for utility or a Spawn for backfield screening.

As for Chaincannon Havocs - yeah, much prefer to distribute them amongst Heretacs. Havocs feel best used with high power guns plus Armourbane.

Very cool. I was thinking of WE ones supporting my TS list or AL list with a separate detachment. The daemon re-roll is nice, but I think I can get that with the Icon of Khorne right? I was thinking 10 x WE warp talons, smash lord and 2 x 5 raptors with plasma for the detachment then plug and play with my other forces.

Sadly no, Warp Talons are amongst the minority of infantry who can’t take Icons. I’m hesitant to take a single unit outside of a Daemonkin list - it’s rather much of a gamble for my liking.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Sadly no, Warp Talons are amongst the minority of infantry who can’t take Icons. I’m hesitant to take a single unit outside of a Daemonkin list - it’s rather much of a gamble for my liking.

You could go for the Vigilus formation?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Sadly no, Warp Talons are amongst the minority of infantry who can’t take Icons. I’m hesitant to take a single unit outside of a Daemonkin list - it’s rather much of a gamble for my liking.

You could go for the Vigilus formation?

That’s exactly the plan. Host Raptorial + Khorne auras = hard counter for most OW shenanigans

If only warp Talons wouldn't be so expensive.

So got two games in with my Chaos Vindicator with the new D6 shots. It makes all the difference. at only 125 and T8 it is a great distraction unit to absorb AT shots. While the D6 shots is still real swing-y, if your opponent ignores it and it gets hot, look out, you are tearing up vehicles. Which will be important against the massive amount of dreadnought Ironhands lists that are coming. Unless you know you are playing a horde army, I would take it over 5 x Chain cannon havocs, and it is 25 points less, or over 5 x AC havocs which it is only 15 points more. I would take it over the 4 x LC predator as it is 55 points cheaper and has the T8.

Also this is not news, but Leviathan Dreads with butchers are good. Like really good.

Are Cypher and Fallen able to use Pods/Rhinos etc now?

Seems like there was an update but I can’t find it.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Are Cypher and Fallen able to use Pods/Rhinos etc now?

Seems like there was an update but I can’t find it.

The Fallen Angels Specialist Detachment in the second Vigilus book lets you field functional Rhinos and Sorcerors.

 xeen wrote:
So got two games in with my Chaos Vindicator with the new D6 shots. It makes all the difference. at only 125 and T8 it is a great distraction unit to absorb AT shots. While the D6 shots is still real swing-y, if your opponent ignores it and it gets hot, look out, you are tearing up vehicles. Which will be important against the massive amount of dreadnought Ironhands lists that are coming. Unless you know you are playing a horde army, I would take it over 5 x Chain cannon havocs, and it is 25 points less, or over 5 x AC havocs which it is only 15 points more. I would take it over the 4 x LC predator as it is 55 points cheaper and has the T8.

Also this is not news, but Leviathan Dreads with butchers are good. Like really good.

I mean it's obvious.
If the hades ac would not be Stuck on sub par performing units we would also see it more often.

Infact i would be as willing to state that on a pred it would actually be fieldable.

Hi all,

So my daemon engine list didn't do that great a london GT, partly because of my own inexperience, but mostly because it really suffered when going 2nd against the space marine gun lines.

I want to double down on black legion and try to play to thier strengths; which as I see it are having council of traitors, abbadon, and lots of ways to get rerolls.

On abbadon the only thing I can see working well is deep strike with 3 oblits for some serious shooting.. how are people running him?

Anyone else sound any useful strats with the black legion strategems?

Also it seems to be oblits > terminators... anyone disagree?

Finally there are primaris everywhere.. best guns against them look to be plasma or butcher cannons - any other suggestion?

mrtomski wrote:
Hi all,

So my daemon engine list didn't do that great a london GT, partly because of my own inexperience, but mostly because it really suffered when going 2nd against the space marine gun lines.

I want to double down on black legion and try to play to thier strengths; which as I see it are having council of traitors, abbadon, and lots of ways to get rerolls.

On abbadon the only thing I can see working well is deep strike with 3 oblits for some serious shooting.. how are people running him?

Anyone else sound any useful strats with the black legion strategems?

Also it seems to be oblits > terminators... anyone disagree?

Finally there are primaris everywhere.. best guns against them look to be plasma or butcher cannons - any other suggestion?

Atm Marine variants are pretty strong, and will likely remain so at least until Chaos gets an actual 2.0 codex release.

Not sure if Black Legion is capable of closing the gap. Their options are fluffy, things like council of traitors are interesting, but not sure they're actually particularly strong. Getting the most from Council requires taking a sorc and an apostle, and unless you build around it the apostle is a hefty tax. Their strongest option is probably to make use of the Pantheon strat and stacking buffs on a powerful unit, but again that's more 'fun' and not sure how it would hold up in a competitive environment.

Best best is still probably alpha legion, at least until they get their trait nerf. After that... not sure. Daemon Engine red corsairs maybe?

Oblits are seen as better than Termies, but only if slaanesh shoot-twice. If you aren't doing that with them, then they're overcosted. I actually like the idea of Pantheon Termies, but again it's a big points sink. I think the issue at the moment is that pretty much all chaos units are overpriced, especially since marines got their new codices.

I've noticed this tactica thread has been very quiet lately, I actually wouldn't be surprised if a number of previous chaos players are instead fielding 'renegade Iron Hands' for the next few months.

Plasma and Butcher cannons are good weapons against pretty much everything. Combi-bolters are also ok for chaff clearing. Not really any other weapons worth taking, other than something like quad-las contemptors.

mrtomski wrote:
Hi all,

So my daemon engine list didn't do that great a london GT, partly because of my own inexperience, but mostly because it really suffered when going 2nd against the space marine gun lines.

I want to double down on black legion and try to play to thier strengths; which as I see it are having council of traitors, abbadon, and lots of ways to get rerolls.

On abbadon the only thing I can see working well is deep strike with 3 oblits for some serious shooting.. how are people running him?

Anyone else sound any useful strats with the black legion strategems?

Also it seems to be oblits > terminators... anyone disagree?

Finally there are primaris everywhere.. best guns against them look to be plasma or butcher cannons - any other suggestion?

Can’t tell you any advanced BL plays, but they have two pertinent relics. Teethsword is a Primaris muncher. Angelsbane is a potential check for 3w troopers, useful thing to have to hand if Gravis squads crop up in your meta and you’re not taking knights

In an objectives game, if your force is mobile then keep World Killers in mind

Do your Daemon engines have a specific mark? Changeling can give them a cheeky 6+++

Chosen of the pantheon is sub gimmick tier IMO, you can ultra-charge an Oblits unit with it but they have to keep boots on the table at all times andutterlt rely on T1, all the synergies it presents rely on taking a Daemon detachment that commits you so much you may as well just save a CP and take the mark

I've noticed this tactica thread has been very quiet lately, I actually wouldn't be surprised if a number of previous chaos players are instead fielding 'renegade Iron Hands' for the next few months.

Na, i rekon it's more the Realisation that we got once again shafted.

And I can't blame most of them that either switch to loyalist Versions.

Then again i probably am allready cynically hardened from my r&h experience in 8th sofar.
For me the csm dex will suffice.

Especially killteam has drawn my attention recently, a atleast for a neewbie in that game, seemingly a more even playing field.

any good reasons to play iron warriors ? what is their strength or best tactic? my brother have world eater and black legion so i decide to build a new army as iron warriors.

Iron warriors has a great warlord trait and relic. Their trait is...Pretty ok? Its mid-tier compared to the other old traits before GW decided to power creep the hell out of army tactics.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Iron warriors has a great warlord trait and relic. Their trait is...Pretty ok? Its mid-tier compared to the other old traits before GW decided to power creep the hell out of army tactics.

As valkor said. You can have morale immune blobs, sourounding your bitter warlord. That said if the meta shifts torwards the sniper fest thanks to RG it might be better to have some other units do bring in the hurt.

It's also an unmakred legion that can do dakka well regardless of table, so long you don't play with LOS blocking terrainrules galore.

My suggestion, consider 2 max blobs of cultists and a warlord with the cold and bitter trait. That is about the fodder you can use decently.
Add a min squad.

Sorcerer, prescience or any other variation you like.

Consider Terminators / oblits in a vanguard spearhead formation with added HQ support to generate more CP via detachments.

Alternatively be fluffy and use a Lord discordant pack? (granted RC would be better for that but with soulforged you get some room to play with)

Following up on Daemon Primarch lists, here's what I'm thinking about for the final list. Would love some feedback.

3 detachments, 2000 points. I'd like to add a Feculent Gnarlmaw but not sure where to trim. Most open to dropping the Sicaran but but I'm not sure what I'd replace it with.

My local meta is competitive and mostly consists of Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Dark Eldar and Imperial Knights. The lists giving me the most trouble right now are Triple Repulsors and Infiltrators / Intercessors.

I've done a little playtesting and found the results encouraging. Mortarion isn't getting into combat turn 1 but he and Magnus have been able to survive past turn 3 all 3 games. The Sicaran isn't doing much, feels like I need to commit to long-range shooting or objective grabbing. Also played a variant that swapped the Nurgle detachment for Disco Lords, could work but I felt starved for bodies. So maybe later.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Nurgle) ++

+ HQ +

Poxbringer: Balesword, Smite, Virulent Blessing

Poxbringer: Balesword, Miasma of Pestilence, Smite

+ Troops +

Nurglings
. 3x Nurgling Swarms: 3x Diseased claws and teeth

Nurglings
. 3x Nurgling Swarms: 3x Diseased claws and teeth

Plaguebearers: Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos
. 21x Plaguebearer: 21x Plaguesword
. Plagueridden: Plaguesword

+ Elites +

Hellforged Sicaran: Combi-bolter, Heavy bolter, Infernal hunger, Nurgle, Twin accelerator autocannon
. Lascannons: 2x Lascannon

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) ++

+ HQ +

Ahriman: Black Staff of Ahriman, Frag & Krak grenades, Glamour of Tzeentch, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Smite, Tzeentch's Firestorm, Warptime

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch: Gaze of Fate, Infernal Gaze, Malefic talon, Malefic talon, Smite, Wings

Sorcerer on Disc of Tzeentch: Blades on Disc of Tzeentch, Combi-bolter, Death Hex, Diabolic Strength, Force stave, Frag & Krak grenades, Helm of the Third Eye, Smite

+ Lord of War +

Magnus the Red: Bolt of Change, Doombolt, Infernal Gateway, Prescience, Smite, The Blade of Magnus, Warlord

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ Lord of War +

Mortarion: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 6. Curse of the Leper, Attendant's claws and teeth, Phosphex bombs, Silence, Smite, The Lantern

 techsoldaten wrote:
Following up on Daemon Primarch lists, here's what I'm thinking about for the final list. Would love some feedback.

3 detachments, 2000 points. I'd like to add a Feculent Gnarlmaw but not sure where to trim. Most open to dropping the Sicaran but but I'm not sure what I'd replace it with.

My local meta is competitive and mostly consists of Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Dark Eldar and Imperial Knights. The lists giving me the most trouble right now are Triple Repulsors and Infiltrators / Intercessors.

I've done a little playtesting and found the results encouraging. Mortarion isn't getting into combat turn 1 but he and Magnus have been able to survive past turn 3 all 3 games. The Sicaran isn't doing much, feels like I need to commit to long-range shooting or objective grabbing. Also played a variant that swapped the Nurgle detachment for Disco Lords, could work but I felt starved for bodies. So maybe later.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Nurgle) ++

+ HQ +

Poxbringer: Balesword, Smite, Virulent Blessing

Poxbringer: Balesword, Miasma of Pestilence, Smite

+ Troops +

Nurglings
. 3x Nurgling Swarms: 3x Diseased claws and teeth

Nurglings
. 3x Nurgling Swarms: 3x Diseased claws and teeth

Plaguebearers: Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos
. 21x Plaguebearer: 21x Plaguesword
. Plagueridden: Plaguesword

+ Elites +

Hellforged Sicaran: Combi-bolter, Heavy bolter, Infernal hunger, Nurgle, Twin accelerator autocannon
. Lascannons: 2x Lascannon

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) ++

+ HQ +

Ahriman: Black Staff of Ahriman, Frag & Krak grenades, Glamour of Tzeentch, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Smite, Tzeentch's Firestorm, Warptime

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch: Gaze of Fate, Infernal Gaze, Malefic talon, Malefic talon, Smite, Wings

Sorcerer on Disc of Tzeentch: Blades on Disc of Tzeentch, Combi-bolter, Death Hex, Diabolic Strength, Force stave, Frag & Krak grenades, Helm of the Third Eye, Smite

+ Lord of War +

Magnus the Red: Bolt of Change, Doombolt, Infernal Gateway, Prescience, Smite, The Blade of Magnus, Warlord

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ Lord of War +

Mortarion: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 6. Curse of the Leper, Attendant's claws and teeth, Phosphex bombs, Silence, Smite, The Lantern

I'm surprised magnus lives until T3, I've run both Magnus and Morty before and it felt heavily reliant on who goes first typically against big gunlines... Not sure about the sicaran as it isn't in many comp lists and has no invul, but you do have target saturation. Since it is elite you can make it TSons and move it to the supreme command with ahriman and preserve your nurgle legion triat and access to CD Strats.

 lindsay40k wrote:

mrtomski wrote:
Hi all,

So my daemon engine list didn't do that great a london GT, partly because of my own inexperience, but mostly because it really suffered when going 2nd against the space marine gun lines.

I want to double down on black legion and try to play to thier strengths; which as I see it are having council of traitors, abbadon, and lots of ways to get rerolls.

On abbadon the only thing I can see working well is deep strike with 3 oblits for some serious shooting.. how are people running him?

Anyone else sound any useful strats with the black legion strategems?

Also it seems to be oblits > terminators... anyone disagree?

Finally there are primaris everywhere.. best guns against them look to be plasma or butcher cannons - any other suggestion?

Can’t tell you any advanced BL plays, but they have two pertinent relics. Teethsword is a Primaris muncher. Angelsbane is a potential check for 3w troopers, useful thing to have to hand if Gravis squads crop up in your meta and you’re not taking knights

In an objectives game, if your force is mobile then keep World Killers in mind

Do your Daemon engines have a specific mark? Changeling can give them a cheeky 6+++

Chosen of the pantheon is sub gimmick tier IMO, you can ultra-charge an Oblits unit with it but they have to keep boots on the table at all times andutterlt rely on T1, all the synergies it presents rely on taking a Daemon detachment that commits you so much you may as well just save a CP and take the mark

Thanks all for the info.. didn't know about the changling... 100points for a 6+++ in a 9" bubble feels pretty good.

I have a kytan so I was thinking about going the crimson crown route with some dual butcher cannon decimators...

But 6+++ for everything may be the better way to go. Hm.

Bit worried about how fragile decimators seem to be, my defliers were taking quite a beating but have 6 more wounds :-/

Yeah, Defiler really feels like king of the DE right now, Decimators don’t seem to have any real niche atm. Anything good they can do is overwhelmingly reliant on getting T1.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Yeah, Defiler really feels like king of the DE right now, Decimators don’t seem to have any real niche atm. Anything good they can do is overwhelmingly reliant on getting T1.

I think for the points defliers are pretty good, but it's a challenge to get them into combat, and without any rerolls you are hitting on 4s which is painful.

They are also big clunky models which tend to get in the way.

I had been running them as slaanesh, running one up, putting a 5++ on it and popping smoke... that combo makes one very very hard to take down.

Honestly they felt they make thier point more by absorbing fire power then dealing damage, although stats wise they should be destroying big stuff in melee.

I like the idea of a decimator fire base, but from what I've seen recently they would be toast T1 as t7 5++ and 8w is just not enough.