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Hello,

There is a 1,250 tournament coming up at my FLGS next month, and instead of using my Marines, I want to use my Dark Eldar, as I did very well with them last time. But, I've been torn between a few additions from my 1,000 point list.

Essentially, my 1,000 point list is something like this...
-x1 Succubus
-x2 Ravagers
-x3 10 man Wych Squads in Raiders
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Now, I have come up with a few options, but am completely open to your opinions on others.

1st: Replace the Succubus with an Archon and run him with a squad of 5 Incubi in a Raider.

2nd: Replace the Succubus with a Haemo w/ WWP. Then add in a huge squad of beasts that will come out of it.

3rd: Add in Warriors in a Raider.


Opinions? Other Options?

For starters, I would add another ravager. Then I would drop the Succubus and a wych from each squad and add haemonculi to each of them. Better anti-tank, and your wyches have Feel No Pain from the get go now. : )

Have you noticed a big decrease in killing power with that?

Feel No Pain sounds awesome though, I think I might have to playtest a list like that soon.

Any other suggestions?

Since the list is vague, I would add in a shattershard to one of the Haemy's and liquifier guns to the others to leave on their transports after the wyches disembark to assault tanks with haywire nades.

If you have the points available etc.

Sorry for the vagueness, I have one squad with shardnets, the other two have hydras.

I still feel like I should add in some warriors, as there are more than 5 players at the store with MC, and 4+ to wound on them seems really nice.

I think I will add in Haemos tho, and try a list Dash's way too.

revackey wrote:Sorry for the vagueness, I have one squad with shardnets, the other two have hydras.

I still feel like I should add in some warriors, as there are more than 5 players at the store with MC, and 4+ to wound on them seems really nice.

I think I will add in Haemos tho, and try a list Dash's way too.

MCs....Dark Eldar can shoot them to death like no other army. Don't throw power weapons at them when you can auto-wound on a 4+ with every pistol and rifle in your army, before we even get around to talking about lances and blasters.

Dashofpepper wrote:

revackey wrote:Sorry for the vagueness, I have one squad with shardnets, the other two have hydras.

I still feel like I should add in some warriors, as there are more than 5 players at the store with MC, and 4+ to wound on them seems really nice.

I think I will add in Haemos tho, and try a list Dash's way too.

MCs....Dark Eldar can shoot them to death like no other army. Don't throw power weapons at them when you can auto-wound on a 4+ with every pistol and rifle in your army, before we even get around to talking about lances and blasters.

I know, thats why I was wondering if I should bring a squad of warriors in a raider.

Or would you still stand by your first suggestion?

revackey wrote:
1st: Replace the Succubus with an Archon and run him with a squad of 5 Incubi in a Raider.

2nd: Replace the Succubus with a Haemo w/ WWP. Then add in a huge squad of beasts that will come out of it.

3rd: Add in Warriors in a Raider.

whatever you do, dont add incubi and an archon together. The only thing that does is give the Incubi grenades with a PGL. But otherwise you are making one big squad that says SHOOT ME all over it. Its just too nasty/powerful. Better to put the archon or succubus in another squad and have the incubi charge alongside but from another raider.

Definitely agree with Dashofpepper. Adding Haemys to your wych squads for FnP gives them great staying power against S5 and below enemies.

If you drop the succubus and get the Ravager, I think you don't need to worry too much about MCs as you'd have 9 DLs with the Ravagers alone, 12 if you include your Raiders. That's a lot of S8 armor-ignoring weaponry.

That said, if you wanted to spice things up, getting trueborns or warriors in the mix could be fun to add more poison to the mix.

Alright, was doing some playing around; here's a 1,000 point list on the dot following your theme:

2x Haemonculi, one with a shattershard

3x9 wyches in raiders with flickerfields
3x Ravagers with flickerfields

You've got 12 lances on the field, a 5+ invulnerable save on all your vehicles regardless of cover, and while I couldn't squeeze a haemonculi into all three wych squads, two of them will start with feel no pain.

Alternatively, you could drop a wych unit and add a trueborn unit with blasters in a dual splinter cannon venom. For 1,000 points, I think you have plenty of anti-tank, and actually start wondering how well your wyches can work their way through infantry. In my armies, my wyches are supplemental anti-infantry, not my main source of it, but if its all you've got, them not having power weapons is a bit worrisome. Might want to explore going the trueborn/venom route just so that you've got a couple splinter cannons to drop on someone. 9x wyches can stand toe-to-to with terminators, against MEQs (especially with FNP) but against 20-30 ork boyz or a swarm of tyranids (or even a monstrous creature), not so much. Lances will do your thing against MCs (so will splinter cannons) but dark lances will make a mob of ork boyz laugh. If you can get BOTH wych units into close combat with the same ork mob, you'll rip them up. But you can drop a lot of ork boyz on the table in 1,000 points.

With the list idea you have, I'd actually drop the haemonculi and figure a way to take the Duke. With your army being primarily Wyches you might as well take advantage of the Duke's abilities. IMHO, he offers a much better utility to your army. He's also going to boost your close combat potential since it looks like you didn't include Hekatrix in your squads. Without Hekatrix in your wyche squads...the damage potential with your wyches is really limited. I'd also consider looking into a 3 man true born unit with 3 blasters and 1 splinter cannon in a venom at this points level. It may not be something you have access to, but definitely something to consider. There are plenty of good ideas given so far so playtesting is the next step.

Thanks everyone, I think I will be taking your advice Dash, maybe adding some Trueborn when I bump up to 1,500 or just create an alternative list.

Sadly my FLGS does not allow IC till 1,500.

Again thanks for such the great advice.

Just throwing this out there: I hate the Duke, and think he's a waste of points.

Agreed, but I tend to be a minimalist when it comes to HQ's anyway. I really don't see the Duke adding anything to this list. 2 Haemy's would guarantee more benefit than a 1/3 chance to gain 1 more pain token.

Dashofpepper wrote:Just throwing this out there: I hate the Duke, and think he's a waste of points.

Mmm. The Baron, point for point, abiltity for ability, wargear for wargear even is a better buy. Irrespective of the army (imagine no squads on foot) - even if The Baron cost 150 instead of 105 - he bring more benifits.

Any opinions on Lelith? I was thinking of adding her in higher points.

Also, Beasts out a WWP? From the two games at 1,250 I've played with them, they have been a big game changer. Would they be a good addition in your opinion at some point?

EDIT:

If you would like me to post my 1K list I will, but I do include Hekatrix's with Agonizers.

Lelith....has been nerfed so hard that she'll never get fielded in one of my armies again.

She lost her shadowfield, she lost her agonizer, she lost her retinue. She'll generally need 5+ to wound, 6+ to wound often enough to make me leery of using her anyway, and now that she's T3, a combat character, and no longer has a shadowfield or a retinue, she's going to get targeted by powerfists and everything else that can insta-gib her the first time she fails her dodge.

T3 and fragile is the way of life for Dark Eldar, but if its going to be that way, I either want cheap models (wyches, wracks, beasts) so that losing one doesn't hurt too much, or I want them not in close combat (like my Baron and my Haemonculi). Lelith wasn't stellar in the old codex - not like some HQs out there - but she was good enough to justify taking. Now....not a chance.

Great points Dash, now that you say that I will skip her. And, again, thanks for all the great advice.

Dashofpepper wrote:Just throwing this out there: I hate the Duke, and think he's a waste of points.

Meh. No biggie. We disagree then. For the points, what you get is awesome. If you are taking a large quantity of combat drug units what's not to like? And his CC abilities are as good as a similarly tooled out archon. IMHO, a far better option than the two easy KPs in haemonculi..and more effective overall to the an army with lots of drug use units. For instance if you get a 6 you now have army wide FnP..and because he has drugs too, when he joins the wyches they have FC as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ThePhish wrote:Agreed, but I tend to be a minimalist when it comes to HQ's anyway. I really don't see the Duke adding anything to this list. 2 Haemy's would guarantee more benefit than a 1/3 chance to gain 1 more pain token.

Sometimes another a roll like Re-Rolls to wound is a better option. His ability to strategically influence your drug rolls is key against most armies. FnP on wyches is only really helpful vs. shooting as most of the stuff they end up fighting in CC usually ignores FnP anyways...or throws out so many attacks that FnP is minimized.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lelith....has been nerfed so hard that she'll never get fielded in one of my armies again.

She lost her shadowfield, she lost her agonizer, she lost her retinue. She'll generally need 5+ to wound, 6+ to wound often enough to make me leery of using her anyway, and now that she's T3, a combat character, and no longer has a shadowfield or a retinue, she's going to get targeted by powerfists and everything else that can insta-gib her the first time she fails her dodge.

T3 and fragile is the way of life for Dark Eldar, but if its going to be that way, I either want cheap models (wyches, wracks, beasts) so that losing one doesn't hurt too much, or I want them not in close combat (like my Baron and my Haemonculi). Lelith wasn't stellar in the old codex - not like some HQs out there - but she was good enough to justify taking. Now....not a chance.

Agreed. She's terrible. It's a shame too, because the model is awesome. It proves several dakka poster's theory as incorrect as well since awesome models don't always get awesome rules.

lilliths rules kinda suck.... ive used her a few times now, and yea the bonus attacks is absoultly awsome, but the fact she dosent get drugs (WTF?) and only str 3, makes it really hard for her to kill something. mind, the model is amazing. ive gotten into habit of using her model as a succubus.

on topic, ive had AMAZING results from fielding 4-5 trueborn wither with 4 blasters or 2 splinter cannons and 2 carbines in a dual cannon venom. the unit costs less then 200 points, and just WRECKS things. i prefer the blaster born, simply becasue they can nuke tanks with little issue, and the venom can pump 12 shots hitting on 3's and wounding on 4's. its a great combo for popping transports then shredding the squishy bits inside. additonally, or at least in my games people have ignored the venoms in favor of shooting at raiders or ravagers. and often they ignore the ravagers..... i dunno why. maybe a psychological factor to the "big scary boat" rushing right at them.....

finally, ive had decent results from jetbikes with caltrops. expensive, but turbo boosting every turn, and using bladevanes can inflict some decent damage on enemys. not so much vrs heavy armor, but against stuff like IG, ork, nids, etc bladevanes dice them up. in a small points game id suggest maybe 5-7 of them with 2 cluster caltrops and MAYBE a grav talon. pining isint so reliable but its nice to force a check if you can.

CaptKaruthors wrote:Agreed. She's terrible. It's a shame too, because the model is awesome. It proves several dakka poster's theory as incorrect as well since awesome models don't always get awesome rules.

Mandrakes also prove that... I'd personally play Leliths model as a normal succubus, especially considering how bad the actual succubus model is... Really hoping what's left of the DE models to come out look better than the models they have in the advance orders section at the moment.

That has been my plan (To use her as a Succubus), if I use a Succubus again, I really with the Decapitator was better...but thats besides the point.

Thanks again for the help guys, I think I got my list now.