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I am not going to NOVA with my Slaanesh - it won't be painted in time I suspect. Most of my opponents are testing NOVA lists now though, so the only games I am getting tend to be NOVA test games.

My list is:

666 - Zarakynel (Celerity of Slaanesh Warlord Trait)

66 - Herald of Slaanesh
180 - Daemon Prince of Slaanesh (Souleater Blade)
150 - 20 Daemonettes w/ Instrument
150 - 20 Daemonettes w/ Instrument
150 - 20 Daemonettes w/ Instrument

76 - Warpsmith, Renegade Legion Trait, Mark of Slaanesh
98 - Sorcerer, Renegade Legion Trait, Mark of Slaanesh
40 - some cultists
40 - some cultists
40 - some cultists
169 - Defiler w/ Twin Heavy Bolter & Defiler Scourge
169 - Defiler w/ Twin Heavy Bolter & Defiler Scourge

1994 points, 13 CP

General idea of list:
Anti-Tank units consist of Defiler and Zarakynel. Zarakynel is guaranteed 16-21" move before charge, one Defiler is guaranteed 18-28" move before charge. May take two turns to get into combat with tanks through screens. Daemon Prince is also anti-tank/tough stuff, though tends to be more of a pocket support character that hits like a truck.

Screens are not always an issue - Cacophonic Choir plus Zarakynel's native -2 plus Phantasmagoria means that a Leadership 7 Guard Squad is reduced to Leadership 4, making Cacophonic Choir quite useful, plus smite (since Zarakynel can cast 3 powers).

Anti-Duders (while also being support) are the Daemonettes, whose speed (9-14 before charging) means they can surround enemy units fairly easily to keep them from falling back - they are the second wave and butcher anything that the Big Defilers and Big Girly Herself couldn't be assed to deal with.

Curiously, Zarakynel is also anti-horde; on a 4+ to wound, her weapon does 3 mortal wounds instead of 3 normal damage. Against vehicles this is essentially the same, but against infantry/hordes, this is pretty amazing. Remember, mortal wounds spill over but damage does not.

Interestingly, the Defilers are also bullet-magnets. Zarakynel (sporting a 3++ at T8 from Warp Surge) often gets passed over in favor of the Defilers (5++ T7) because people feel like they can't one-shot her; this apparently means she's not worth shooting at all. *shrug*. The problem is, of course, that even if they do shoot her, a Daemonforged Warptimed Prescience Defiler is actually faster and killier against big targets, so... maybe they were right after all.

u still dont understand that against top lists t1 charges mean absolutely nothing.
IG= you wil charge chaffs and you obliterated then
Eldar= valuable targets start embarked, you must charge rangers/guardians then obliterated
De= read above
other demons= usually you clash against 60-90 pb and just bounce over them they you got burned by bloated drones/pbc or counter charged
Dont take me bad but also the opponet should play not put randomly unit on table and exposing himself to all your t1 charges, you dont really have idea how much firepower top lists can bring on table, there is a reason why 99% of competitive demon lists rely heavily on Nurgle nowadays.
Last tournament i faced a Tyr with 40 raptors and 30 hormagaunts, i placed my 60 Pb in front of anything and rest of my army behind (3 bloated drones 7 nurgle drones 3 Dp Ahriman)result he charged anything turn 1 on my -1/-2 to hit Pb kill some then burned out by drones and counter charged by nurgle drones, 40 genestealers+broodlord+30 hormagaunts dead from fire+melee+psyonic (and they hit very hard they have same save of ur demonettes/seekers but T4 and FNP at 5++), game over. Maybe you wont believe but that's main reason why no one play Slaanesh, btw most important is you have fun with your list, the rest matter nothing

Its not that I don't believe you, its that I am trying to find some way to make them work. Last time I took my deamons list against an eldar player who had 2 of the flyers with the auto-hitting high str shots and 14 dark reapers with a lot of shenanigans and stuff I had 0 issues against him, I had him beat by turn 2. I am not saying my list idea is the end all-be all of list ideas I am just trying to find some kind of competitive idea for them. You can tell me "that wont work because this" but I am trying to find a way to make it work better. example, if I dropped the Tzeentch stuff (which I have 0 problems doing) what could I put in its place to make the list work better? You say charges mean 0, I say thats why I am bringing so many noise marines, I plan on blasting through the chaff as quick as possible. Plus I like the lore and the units. Showing up to a competitive game with a semi-competitive list can have its own advantages, not every competitive game / tournament uses NOVA rules for example. Not getting angry or anything, sometimes its hard to understand the meaning behind the words when your reading them, but I really don't think flat dismissal of T1 assaults is a good idea, especially in this new era of "no Deep Strike Assaults T1", I have seen great lists destroyed because the opponent simply didn't realize that a T1 assault was possible so they did their deployment with coverage for T2 assaults.

 blackmage wrote:
u still dont understand that against top lists t1 charges mean absolutely nothing.
IG= you wil charge chaffs and you obliterated then
Eldar= valuable targets start embarked, you must charge rangers/guardians then obliterated
De= read above
other demons= usually you clash against 60-90 pb and just bounce over them they you got burned by bloated drones/pbc or counter charged
Dont take me bad but also the opponet should play not put randomly unit on table and exposing himself to all your t1 charges, you dont really have idea how much firepower top lists can bring on table, there is a reason why 99% of competitive demon lists rely heavily on Nurgle nowadays.
Last tournament i faced a Tyr with 40 raptors and 30 hormagaunts, i placed my 60 Pb in front of anything and rest of my army behind (3 bloated drones 7 nurgle drones 3 Dp Ahriman)result he charged anything turn 1 on my -1/-2 to hit Pb kill some then burned out by drones and counter charged by nurgle drones, 40 genestealers+broodlord+30 hormagaunts dead from fire+melee+psyonic (and they hit very hard they have same save of ur demonettes/seekers but T4 and FNP at 5++), game over. Maybe you wont believe but that's main reason why no one play Slaanesh, btw most important is you have fun with your list, the rest matter nothing

I'm not arguing that Slaanesh is top-tier tournament-competitive, but I will argue that it's perfectly competitive enough for casual games!

 blackmage wrote:
but you lost all detachment bonus+stratagems cause it is not a DEMON detachment

They would? Obliterators are daemons though. Do they not count in a detachment?

Heafstaag wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
but you lost all detachment bonus+stratagems cause it is not a DEMON detachment

They would? Obliterators are daemons though. Do they not count in a detachment?

It's the difference between having something as a Faction Keyword and just as a regular Keyword. Obliterators are Daemons - they have the Daemon keyword - but they don't have it as a Faction Keyword (see the C:CSM FAQ). However, a Demon detachment is one where all units chosen have the Daemon Faction Keyword.

Aelyn wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
but you lost all detachment bonus+stratagems cause it is not a DEMON detachment

They would? Obliterators are daemons though. Do they not count in a detachment?

It's the difference between having something as a Faction Keyword and just as a regular Keyword. Obliterators are Daemons - they have the Daemon keyword - but they don't have it as a Faction Keyword (see the C:CSM FAQ). However, a Demon detachment is one where all units chosen have the Daemon Faction Keyword.

Adding that faqs have removed the daemon faction keyword from oblitorators which was a misprint in the codex.

Yes they dont have demon faction keyword, so they break detachment integrity

 blackmage wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
I've found in my experience that Flesh Hounds are pretty fun against Knights. They aren't infantry so Knights can't do diddly once locked in with them, and their biker base means that they can easily surround a knight, especially positioned correctly with their high movement.

Another good option is oddly enough, the great axe bloodthirster. Give it the +1 invuln and spend 2 CP to pump it to 3++ save, and you'd be suprised how much fire power they'll load into that thing just to take it down, ignoring all your other threats.

yes IF you think to face lot of IK's they are decent choice, just bothering keep BT in AiP and spend two extra cp's and then hope in a 9" charge, keep it on table against IK is hazardous regardless of 3++.I still prefer skullreave dp with legendary fighter warlord trait it cant be targeted and damage output is identical if not better, considering the mortal wounds it can deliver

Oh, you absolutely start it on the table. You want it targeted. A distraction carnifex against an IK army needs to be BIG to draw attention.

I like the Defiler ideas I keep seeing floated about... 2 Defilers and a Gnarlmaw; means you can advance and charge a Knight and probably take a good chunk outta him!

Might be an idea for another tourney list >.>

 Zid wrote:
I like the Defiler ideas I keep seeing floated about... 2 Defilers and a Gnarlmaw; means you can advance and charge a Knight and probably take a good chunk outta him!

Might be an idea for another tourney list >.>

Hmm. I’m working towards a Slaaneshi Daemon engines rushdown list. I’m Marking my units with magnetised banners, so switching them into an Epidemius list now and then is an option. What’s the logistics of this? An M14+ Herald is easy to move up the board, what’s the order of play when it’s gashtrees that enable advance and charge?

I reckon Slaanesh might do it better, as a single Fiend of Slaanesh getting in there forces some tense decisions when allocating punches. If just one of those survives and hooks a unit fighting Defiler and Forgefiends (I know, I know - overcosted garagehammer nyerr, well if they get a good Advance roll it can mean T1 charges sans Warptime with ten attacks), it’s a nightmare for your opponent. They may be squishy, but now that Daemons have extraordinary T1 assault capabilities, that’s the difference between a regular tarpit and a tarpit that’s on fire with claws the size of cars


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also: what loadout for twin Defiliers?

TAC suggests one should have flail, the other Heavy Flamers... especially if you’re getting a tree to enable Advance & shoot. BUT if you’re facing a Knight or three, and you lose first turn, they’re gonna focus fire at the flail one. Being able to fall back and shoot and charge gives the Heavy Bolters - flail combo moderate output against hordes, which in a Nurgle list is not a niche that’s heavily neglected? And if it’s Slaanesh, then anti horde is definitely covered, but Titanic-felling not so much - and at any rate, you don’t have access to Advance and shoot, making it somewhat redundant?

I think I’m gonna build both of mine with flails and reaper autocannons, so whichever one gets shot the other can Warptime and get snipping legs off a Knight, and build anti-horde into rest of the army. Adding a Maulerfiend feels alright. With a good Advance roll, it’s getting in there.

My slaanesh list uses 2 defilers with flails.

They're Slaanesh Daemons so I can have them within 6" of a character at the end of move+advance+warptime+advance (easily done with Zarakynel's 15" = advance move or the Daemon Prince's 12 + advance or the Herald's 14 + advance) and then I can charge.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
My slaanesh list uses 2 defilers with flails.

They're Slaanesh Daemons so I can have them within 6" of a character at the end of move+advance+warptime+advance (easily done with Zarakynel's 15" = advance move or the Daemon Prince's 12 + advance or the Herald's 14 + advance) and then I can charge.

may i ask how you rid of chaffs to let your defilers charge something big and worth?

 blackmage wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
My slaanesh list uses 2 defilers with flails.

They're Slaanesh Daemons so I can have them within 6" of a character at the end of move+advance+warptime+advance (easily done with Zarakynel's 15" = advance move or the Daemon Prince's 12 + advance or the Herald's 14 + advance) and then I can charge.

may i ask how you rid of chaffs to let your defilers charge something big and worth?

Depends on the situation. Chaffs have been more and more absent from lists since Turn 1 DS. Other times I can use Zarakynel (explained in an earlier post) who can fairly trivially wipe a LD7 Guard Squad or LD6 Cultist Squad or most of an LD5 hormagaunt squad in the psychic phase.

Quick rabbit hole question for Zarakynel users - how tall is she, base to head? I made a KoS and thinking about fielding it as her to try these tactics out

Kos is lot smaller than Zarakynel she is 6.5 inches tall,


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 blackmage wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
My slaanesh list uses 2 defilers with flails.

They're Slaanesh Daemons so I can have them within 6" of a character at the end of move+advance+warptime+advance (easily done with Zarakynel's 15" = advance move or the Daemon Prince's 12 + advance or the Herald's 14 + advance) and then I can charge.

may i ask how you rid of chaffs to let your defilers charge something big and worth?

Depends on the situation. Chaffs have been more and more absent from lists since Turn 1 DS. Other times I can use Zarakynel (explained in an earlier post) who can fairly trivially wipe a LD7 Guard Squad or LD6 Cultist Squad or most of an LD5 hormagaunt squad in the psychic phase.

666 pts to delete 1 chaff? really inefficient remove maybe 40 cultist (160pts) with 666pts....

 blackmage wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


Depends on the situation. Chaffs have been more and more absent from lists since Turn 1 DS. Other times I can use Zarakynel (explained in an earlier post) who can fairly trivially wipe a LD7 Guard Squad or LD6 Cultist Squad or most of an LD5 hormagaunt squad in the psychic phase.

666 pts to delete 1 chaff? really inefficient remove maybe 40 cultist (160pts) with 666pts....

That's definitely not the only thing she'll be doing. And clearing the screen in order to allow other friendlies to make a charge sounds like a worthwhile purpose.
I also assume that she'll do other things throughout the game...she doesn't just disappear after T1....

Why are you so negative, blackmage? I feel like all your concerns about the Slaanesh list have been aired...now come up with some positive inputs!

 vaklor4 wrote:
I've found in my experience that Flesh Hounds are pretty fun against Knights. They aren't infantry so Knights can't do diddly once locked in with them, and their biker base means that they can easily surround a knight, especially positioned correctly with their high movement.

Another good option is oddly enough, the great axe bloodthirster. Give it the +1 invuln and spend 2 CP to pump it to 3++ save, and you'd be suprised how much fire power they'll load into that thing just to take it down, ignoring all your other threats.

Flesh hounds are on 50mm round bases these days. Still a pretty great model for board control, decent base size, medium cost, and quick. I really need to try out my bloodthirster again now that we have a codex. The great axe one just looks fun. With my luck I'll end up facing an infantry spam army and never swing the axe!

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 blackmage wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


Depends on the situation. Chaffs have been more and more absent from lists since Turn 1 DS. Other times I can use Zarakynel (explained in an earlier post) who can fairly trivially wipe a LD7 Guard Squad or LD6 Cultist Squad or most of an LD5 hormagaunt squad in the psychic phase.

666 pts to delete 1 chaff? really inefficient remove maybe 40 cultist (160pts) with 666pts....

That's definitely not the only thing she'll be doing. And clearing the screen in order to allow other friendlies to make a charge sounds like a worthwhile purpose.
I also assume that she'll do other things throughout the game...she doesn't just disappear after T1....

Why are you so negative, blackmage? I feel like all your concerns about the Slaanesh list have been aired...now come up with some positive inputs!

im negative becuse i know competitve game that's all, btw each is free to play as he likes of course.

blackmage wrote:666 pts to delete 1 chaff? really inefficient remove maybe 40 cultist (160pts) with 666pts....

Did you read my post? She deletes them in the psychic phase (hence why I called out their leadership, for the Cacophonic Choir power), and then charges through the gap with her friends, doing other things.

Besides, it's a fact of life that you have to get through chaff. I don't think you're going to find a list without a lot of shooting support that will get to the meat of the enemy without going through chaff.

EDIT:
It does depend on how big the unit is - 40 cultists is much harder to wipe than 10. But people tend to take units of 10 locally, and the people with units of 40 aren't any better off, because they end up pinned in their deployment zone by the unwieldyness of their own deployment.

and if you find someone dispelling your powers or you fail to cast (not impossible at all)? i know we are looking things from 2 different points, if in ur local meta they tend to play 10 cultist well i wont discuss anymore then Zarakynel is strong, i still would like to ask u? did you ever seen Zarakynel played in some competitive event? I agree in casual games she can be a tank but against top lists she is not, btw i dont want to convince u,u have the right for your opinions and way to play, i play at certain level and i need a specific kind of lists to compete, this said im sure you can have lot of fun with your list, peace out.

 lindsay40k wrote:

 Zid wrote:
I like the Defiler ideas I keep seeing floated about... 2 Defilers and a Gnarlmaw; means you can advance and charge a Knight and probably take a good chunk outta him!

Might be an idea for another tourney list >.>

Hmm. I’m working towards a Slaaneshi Daemon engines rushdown list. I’m Marking my units with magnetised banners, so switching them into an Epidemius list now and then is an option. What’s the logistics of this? An M14+ Herald is easy to move up the board, what’s the order of play when it’s gashtrees that enable advance and charge?

I reckon Slaanesh might do it better, as a single Fiend of Slaanesh getting in there forces some tense decisions when allocating punches. If just one of those survives and hooks a unit fighting Defiler and Forgefiends (I know, I know - overcosted garagehammer nyerr, well if they get a good Advance roll it can mean T1 charges sans Warptime with ten attacks), it’s a nightmare for your opponent. They may be squishy, but now that Daemons have extraordinary T1 assault capabilities, that’s the difference between a regular tarpit and a tarpit that’s on fire with claws the size of cars


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also: what loadout for twin Defiliers?

TAC suggests one should have flail, the other Heavy Flamers... especially if you’re getting a tree to enable Advance & shoot. BUT if you’re facing a Knight or three, and you lose first turn, they’re gonna focus fire at the flail one. Being able to fall back and shoot and charge gives the Heavy Bolters - flail combo moderate output against hordes, which in a Nurgle list is not a niche that’s heavily neglected? And if it’s Slaanesh, then anti horde is definitely covered, but Titanic-felling not so much - and at any rate, you don’t have access to Advance and shoot, making it somewhat redundant?

I think I’m gonna build both of mine with flails and reaper autocannons, so whichever one gets shot the other can Warptime and get snipping legs off a Knight, and build anti-horde into rest of the army. Adding a Maulerfiend feels alright. With a good Advance roll, it’s getting in there.

I would just make them super cheap with the flail; defilers shooting is awful, charge them in and whoop on whatever you can reach. If they want to FF on them, go ahead, generally you have even bigger threats not too far behind!

blackmage wrote:and if you find someone dispelling your powers or you fail to cast (not impossible at all)? i know we are looking things from 2 different points, if in ur local meta they tend to play 10 cultist well i wont discuss anymore then Zarakynel is strong, i still would like to ask u? did you ever seen Zarakynel played in some competitive event? I agree in casual games she can be a tank but against top lists she is not, btw i dont want to convince u,u have the right for your opinions and way to play, i play at certain level and i need a specific kind of lists to compete, this said im sure you can have lot of fun with your list, peace out.

Oh no, I know Zarakynel's not actually worth it points-cost wise; even my opponents agree she should be like 440 after she finishes wrecking them. But it's what works for me, and as you say, it's fine.

yes those FW demons have weird cost they put the God sacred number 666 for her 777 for Nurgle and 888 for Korne... Fw things we already know they set cost randomly with no sense

 blackmage wrote:
yes those FW demons have weird cost they put the God sacred number 666 for her 777 for Nurgle and 888 for Korne... Fw things we already know they set cost randomly with no sense

She used to be more reasonably costed at like 400pts but then chapter approved made her 666 pts again for gimmick sake, it is such a stupid gimmick

I'm starting a Slaaneshi daemons army and was wondering if a double thermal cannon knight would be a good support unit for them to melt tanks

 Rydria wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
yes those FW demons have weird cost they put the God sacred number 666 for her 777 for Nurgle and 888 for Korne... Fw things we already know they set cost randomly with no sense

She used to be more reasonably costed at like 400pts but then chapter approved made her 666 pts again for gimmick sake, it is such a stupid gimmick

clearly Gw wont let FW GD be played , 777pts for FW Guo?? 888 for FW BT?? fool


Automatically Appended Next Post:

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
I'm starting a Slaaneshi daemons army and was wondering if a double thermal cannon knight would be a good support unit for them to melt tanks

yes but problem is that will be your only armor in list so it will attract all anti tank fire, im going to try too renegades in my Nurgle demon list, but i will play 2 armigers and maybe 2 contemptors too, so i give some target saturation to anti tank fire.

Yeah. Zarakynel was I think 440? 460? Before Chapter Approved.

What happened was Aetos'Rau'Kheres or whatever, the Tzeench Exalted Greater Daemon, was crushing it at tournaments. So clearly the problem is every greater Daemon.

I will say this though: Zarakynel's not far off from being 666 points. She needs more wounds, a better invuln, or something to increase her durability. She has a -1 to-hit in the Fight phase, perhaps just extending that to the shooting phase... hm. Something small. Right now? She's fairly tough but not 1/3rd of a 2k list tough.

It's a shame they'll likely never revisit the rules for these units. :( Points, sure, but many of their rules need some revision.

is like every FW model they are drifting around with no control, Gw doesn't care a lot of Fw seems like.