Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The Imperium does a lot of deplorable things, is the use of child soldiers one of them? The Sabbat Worlds Crusade has a conscription age of 18 which in the modern western world we consider normal. However, how old is a WhiteShield? 16? This may imply there isn't a standard age for conscription empire-wide. Could some worlds use even younger troops?

I'd agree that whiteshields would fall under child soldiers, and there's probably a load of other worlds that do the same, most notably every single Deathworld in the Galaxy.

Doesn't a scout become a full fledged battle brother around the age of 18? (my memory is fuzzy)

Regardless since SM are recruited at such a young age they no doubt see combat very early in life.

Ma55ter_fett wrote:Doesn't a scout become a full fledged battle brother around the age of 18? (my memory is fuzzy)

Regardless since SM are recruited at such a young age they no doubt see combat very early in life.

Not really talking about Space Marines here. There are many chapters that take 12 year olds and make them fight to the death.

Talking about what's the Imperial Guards stance on child-soldiers.

The Whiteshields would certainly explain why all Cadians are such natural soldiers; it's been drummed into them since they passed puberty. Let's not forget that conscripts under 18 were taken during the Middle Ages and that desperate times call for desperate measures.

Soldiers under 18 were taken in big numbers in much later conflicts than the mdidle ages by developed countries, the US Civil War being a pretty good example.

or right now in Africa.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The Imperium does a lot of deplorable things, is the use of child soldiers one of them? The Sabbat Worlds Crusade has a conscription age of 18 which in the modern western world we consider normal. However, how old is a WhiteShield? 16? This may imply there isn't a standard age for conscription empire-wide. Could some worlds use even younger troops?

Most Whiteshields are 16 upon their induction, 18-20 when they've 'taken the Aquila' and been fully inducted into the Guard.

But there's seemingly a caveat. Most Whiteshields, upon their induction, won't see any kind of 'active' duty until they're at least 17.

Well, I guess cild soldiers are a quite rare sight in the IoM.

First of all, the battlefields of the 41st millenium are so deadly that the bulk of the Imperial armed forces are highly trained (according to our military standards). Don't forget that the IG usually consists of the best veterans amongst the Imperial PDFs. And yet, these elite forces are getting chewed up like marshmallows in uncountable battles. So I guess that child soldiers would be of no use at all to the IoM in the field.

However, in various pieces of fluff (especially concerning Tyranid invasions), when a major citadel or hive was besieged for months by an implacable foe, all suitable men were given a weapon while the children and the women were tasked with ammo supplies, wounded recovery, etc...

Finally, GW would simply avoid publishing something about the use of child soldiers in one of its main factions since this kind of issue is a bit too "controversial".

They probably do, but only if the child want to go. It would be stupid to give away the priceless thing for all planets. Every child can grow up and become something more useful for the community instead die in some trench on some god-forsaken rock...
In "Fifteen Hours" I read that not all Imperial worlds give their population to the Guard, only ones with highly trained troops (like Cadia or Elysia). But, when needed, some worlds can form IG Regiments, trained them and send them to the front. But they only pick man from 25 - 45 years, not small children or older people.

It depends how desperate a world is; if you a large population, then there's no point taking weak children when you can go for age where someone is at their peak. If a world is running out if soldiers, then you'll give a gun to anyone who can pull a trigger. Germany was like this at the end of WW2.

The Imperium has no greater resource than people. So much so that it can be a selective about which people it uses.

Imperial Guardsmen are highly trained, battle-hardened individuals for the most part. 12 year olds aren't typically filling that bill.

Alright, so basically I think the IG has an enlistment age of 18 as standard practice. However like most things The Imperium doesn't care what you do on your own planet as long as you pay your tithe. So more questionable worlds may have child soldiers. So worlds like Cadia have children under arms but you'll still find that Cadian Imperial Guardsmen are all over 18.
Where things ge thornier is when organization like The Whiteshields get shipped off-world by the Imperial Navy. At that point isn't the IoM condoning and using child soldiers? They are using their resources to deploy them.

Child Soldiers definitely exists in the Imperium, (known as Probates or Whiteshields). In the IG codex their induction into becoming a guardsman is seen more as a rite of manhood than a simple promotion.

As other have already stated, most planets will use child soldiers if under threat, but IG regiments tend to only accept the top notch soldiers to ship out, and I'd guess soldiers that can't even shave yet might not be up to standard. Or they might be perfect for bulking up Veteran Regiments.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Child Soldiers definitely exists in the Imperium, (known as Probates or Whiteshields). In the IG codex their induction into becoming a guardsman is seen more as a rite of manhood than a simple promotion.

As other have already stated, most planets will use child soldiers if under threat, but IG regiments tend to only accept the top notch soldiers to ship out, and I'd guess soldiers that can't even shave yet might not be up to standard. Or they might be perfect for bulking up Veteran Regiments.

That's what I'm saying. I guess the Thread Title should be 'Does The Imperial Guard use child-soldiers?". There are definately child-soldiers in the grim darkness of the 41st millenium because there's everything but I don't think it's approved of by munitorium regulations.

Children you call them? They can pull a trigger just as well as veterans, and they have the spirit of a bull narthax. Call them children if you wish - I call them troops. - Colonel Marus Cullen, Pannonia 5th Infantry Regiment on Whiteshields

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Child Soldiers definitely exists in the Imperium, (known as Probates or Whiteshields). In the IG codex their induction into becoming a guardsman is seen more as a rite of manhood than a simple promotion.

As other have already stated, most planets will use child soldiers if under threat, but IG regiments tend to only accept the top notch soldiers to ship out, and I'd guess soldiers that can't even shave yet might not be up to standard. Or they might be perfect for bulking up Veteran Regiments.

That's what I'm saying. I guess the Thread Title should be 'Does The Imperial Guard use child-soldiers?". There are definately child-soldiers in the grim darkness of the 41st millenium because there's everything but I don't think it's approved of by munitorium regulations.

There are children-solders for sure, you will find them probably on the following worlds:

1. Worlds that are on the brink of defeat and using their last resort to defend themselves (like Germany at the end of WW2 ).
2. Kids who want's more in life than to grow up being poor in overpopulated Hive-Cities. ( like Necromunda ).
3. Military organized worlds ( like Cadia or Armageddon ).

Retribution wrote:Children you call them? They can pull a trigger just as well as veterans, and they have the spirit of a bull narthax. Call them children if you wish - I call them troops. - Colonel Marus Cullen, Pannonia 5th Infantry Regiment on Whiteshields

I assume Colonel Mares Cullen is a modern-day African warlord?

I wouldn't call Cadian Whiteshields "Child Soldiers", to be honest.

16, when you're in a culture and raised from childhood to puberty to be a soldier?

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Retribution wrote:Children you call them? They can pull a trigger just as well as veterans, and they have the spirit of a bull narthax. Call them children if you wish - I call them troops. - Colonel Marus Cullen, Pannonia 5th Infantry Regiment on Whiteshields

I assume Colonel Mares Cullen is a modern-day African warlord?

I see what you did there.

Agreed, Kanluwen. Even before then they train in the Youth Armies and so are much more prepared to enter the military at a young age. Also, I seem to remember someone calculating in another thread that even on war-torn Armageddon only 0.1% of the population are currently in the Guard and the IG codex states that the Imperium benefits from near-limitless manpower. When there's not a shortage of recruits, there's simply no need to scrape the bottom of the barrel.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Retribution wrote:Children you call them? They can pull a trigger just as well as veterans, and they have the spirit of a bull narthax. Call them children if you wish - I call them troops. - Colonel Marus Cullen, Pannonia 5th Infantry Regiment on Whiteshields

I assume Colonel Mares Cullen is a modern-day African warlord?

I see what you did there.

I'm glad someone did. The resounding approval of the use of child soldiers here is disquieting.

Actually there's one clarification needed - what is child-soldier?
As current western legal (and draft/recruitment) age of 18 is also contradictory - for ex. 19 y.o. US soldier have full right to die in Afghanistan but not to buy strong alcohol at home.

And considering Imperium - for PDF it must depend on planet's traditions, there's current cultures where 14-15 is perfectly good age for warrior/soldier, even 11 for initial training.

IG - iirc (except "adopted"/childrens of camp followers, but not sure that they havve legal guardsman status) 18 is minimum, at least iirc "Dead Men Walking", and there's not many planets so dedicated at providing IG regiments as Krieg.

Krieg is kind of a weird outlier though.

It's been implied multiple times that there's "purebred" Kriegers, who are born the 'proper' way, raised right, etc...

And then there's the rest of the poor bastards, who are clones.

chyron wrote:Actually there's one clarification needed - what is child-soldier?
As current western legal (and draft/recruitment) age of 18 is also contradictory - for ex. 19 y.o. US soldier have full right to die in Afghanistan but not to buy strong alcohol at home.

And considering Imperium - for PDF it must depend on planet's traditions, there's current cultures where 14-15 is perfectly good age for warrior/soldier, even 11 for initial training.

IG - iirc (except "adopted"/childrens of camp followers, but not sure that they havve legal guardsman status) 18 is minimum, at least iirc "Dead Men Walking", and there's not many planets so dedicated at providing IG regiments as Krieg.

http://www.child-soldiers.org/childsoldiers/questions-and-answers

chyron wrote:Actually there's one clarification needed - what is child-soldier?
As current western legal (and draft/recruitment) age of 18 is also contradictory - for ex. 19 y.o. US soldier have full right to die in Afghanistan but not to buy strong alcohol at home.

And considering Imperium - for PDF it must depend on planet's traditions, there's current cultures where 14-15 is perfectly good age for warrior/soldier, even 11 for initial training.

Yeah, there's a bit of an odd cultural block here. Someone who's 17 is a "child soldier," while someone a few months older than them at 18 is perfectly fine and normal. It reminds me of a story about the factories that make Apple products using "child labor!" because a handful of workers were a few months shy of 16, all of whom were 16 by the time the story broke.

Of course, I wouldn't call the much younger kids used by African warlords "child soldiers" either, because they're not soldiers, they're just glorified street gangs...

chyron wrote:Actually there's one clarification needed - what is child-soldier?
As current western legal (and draft/recruitment) age of 18 is also contradictory - for ex. 19 y.o. US soldier have full right to die in Afghanistan but not to buy strong alcohol at home.

There are heaps of contradictions in age and responsibility. For example, in Aus you are criminally responsible at 14 but cannot have sex untill 16. This has lead to instances where 14-15 year-olds taking nude photos of themselves have been charged with distributing Child pornography.


But that's getting WAY off track here. Simply put, by the standards of modern International treaties today the Imperium utilises child soldiers, and to a large extent at that.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

chyron wrote:Actually there's one clarification needed - what is child-soldier?
As current western legal (and draft/recruitment) age of 18 is also contradictory - for ex. 19 y.o. US soldier have full right to die in Afghanistan but not to buy strong alcohol at home.

And considering Imperium - for PDF it must depend on planet's traditions, there's current cultures where 14-15 is perfectly good age for warrior/soldier, even 11 for initial training.

Yeah, there's a bit of an odd cultural block here. Someone who's 17 is a "child soldier," while someone a few months older than them at 18 is perfectly fine and normal. It reminds me of a story about the factories that make Apple products using "child labor!" because a handful of workers were a few months shy of 16, all of whom were 16 by the time the story broke.

Of course, I wouldn't call the much younger kids used by African warlords "child soldiers" either, because they're not soldiers, they're just glorified street gangs...

That's not true. Children are abducted and brainwashed by the "army" and forced to kill.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

chyron wrote:Actually there's one clarification needed - what is child-soldier?
As current western legal (and draft/recruitment) age of 18 is also contradictory - for ex. 19 y.o. US soldier have full right to die in Afghanistan but not to buy strong alcohol at home.

But that's getting WAY of track here. Simply put, by the standards of modern International treaties today the Imperium utilises child soldiers, and to a large extent at that.

I don't think they do actually. I think individual planets use them but The IG itself has the 18 year age limit.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

chyron wrote:Actually there's one clarification needed - what is child-soldier?
As current western legal (and draft/recruitment) age of 18 is also contradictory - for ex. 19 y.o. US soldier have full right to die in Afghanistan but not to buy strong alcohol at home.

And considering Imperium - for PDF it must depend on planet's traditions, there's current cultures where 14-15 is perfectly good age for warrior/soldier, even 11 for initial training.

Yeah, there's a bit of an odd cultural block here. Someone who's 17 is a "child soldier," while someone a few months older than them at 18 is perfectly fine and normal. It reminds me of a story about the factories that make Apple products using "child labor!" because a handful of workers were a few months shy of 16, all of whom were 16 by the time the story broke.

Of course, I wouldn't call the much younger kids used by African warlords "child soldiers" either, because they're not soldiers, they're just glorified street gangs...

That's not true. Children are abducted and brainwashed by the "army" and forced to kill.

Yeah, but if you get into the nitty gritty of it: these "child soldiers" really are, for the most part, glorified street gangs.

They employ the same psychology, methods, etc.

The problem is that these "child soldiers" are also these warlords' first line of defense when they fight the legitimate governments or their rivals--thus, gangsters become "soldiers".

I think people here are being a bit too restrictive with the word 'Soldier'. It certainly applies to these cases in Africa, but if you don't think so then call them combatants instead.