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HQ:
O'Shaserra-175 pts

Elites:
XV8-Shas'vre w/ missile pod, Multi-Tracker, Burst Cannon-60 pts
XV25-Team leader with Fusion gun, Bonding Knife, 2x Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon, Targetting Array-112 pts

Heavy Support:
Broadside with TL PR, Multi-Tracker, 2x Broadside with SMS Targeting Array-245 pts
RailHead w/ BC, DP-155 pts

Fast Attack:
5xPathfinders-Devilfish-128 pts
10xVespid+SL-182 pts

Troops:
20xKroot, 1 Shaper, 5 Kroot Hounds-211 pts
12xFW, 1 is Shas'ui, ML, GD-150 pts
11xFW, 1 is Shas'ui, ML-130 pts

Total: 1548

I want to get this army 1500 pts>, and at the same time want to add more battlesuits, but i don't know where to take pts out.
Also, this army is supposed to be Anti-Elite/Meq, which is why i have so many FW and XV88s

Any advice?

I'd put in a cheaper commander.
I think stealth suits aren't that great when you can get a crisis suit for just a little more cost.
2 broadsides are probably enough with the railhead, or go for two squads of 2 broadsides and drop the railhead.
I would drop the vespid entirely, I just don't like them personally.
The shaper is also probably a waste of points and I'd go about dropping him.

That should snatch you up around 450 points to drop in some more crisis suits.

I think I will drop the 1 broadside with SMS and targeting array-80 pts
that's enough for either 1 pimped out XV8 or two okay ones.
I think ill keep the rest, as vespid are capable MEq killers, and shapers give an armour save to the otherwise unprotected Kroot. The stealth i will keep for outflanking.
I might replace shadowsun, but her ability to share her ld 10 with all nearby tau is really good.
thanks for the input tho. I will post my modified list when i have finished it. Cheers!

Heh, cool
I'm new to Tau anyways. I didn't even know O'Shaserra was Shadowsun lol. She is pretty good. I've found myself to be a big fan of crisis suits though and if I can't fit in at least 7-10, then I pout. Let us know how your list works out!

will do, ill play 5 games and post the results
TY 4 helping mate!

im2randomghgh wrote:XV8-Shas'vre w/ missile pod, Multi-Tracker, Burst Cannon-60 pts

The vre upgrade is pointless, adding nothing to h2h vs. MEqs. Save the points and drop it, especially, since you're not even adding the Target Array. Instead, use this set up:
BC/MP/TA Team Leader, hwMT

im2randomghgh wrote:XV25-Team leader with Fusion gun, Bonding Knife, 2x Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon, Targetting Array-112 pts

That's a really pricey FB. Stealths are better off dedicated to anti-Infantry. Go all BCs. I tried them with the FBs, but it hampers their effectiveness, doing two jobs half-assed, instead of anti-I realy well.

im2randomghgh wrote:Broadside with TL PR, Multi-Tracker, 2x Broadside with SMS Targeting Array-

They really need 2 Shield Drones to survive, and go with all A.s.s., Team Leader, Bonded.

im2randomghgh wrote:RailHead w/ BC, DP-

Add the MT so it'll move & shoot like a Fast Vehicle.

im2randomghgh wrote:5xPathfinders-Devilfish-

This *needs* a DisPod.

im2randomghgh wrote:... as vespid are capable MEq killers ... 10xVespid+SL-

They are not 'capable MEq killers'. I own 10 models. I tried them for a couple years in 4e. Now, in 5e, there are more cover saves for MEqs to take, negating the Neutron Blaster's good AP. They can't take out a full tactical on their own:
10 rolls to hit - 5 hits.
3 wounds = 3 dead. Morale Check. Likely, they'll hold.
Vespid Assault = 20 dice, ten hits. ~4 wounds. One fails.

6 SM attack back, 6 dice, 4 hit. 2 wounds. Likely two Vespid Dead, *if* there's no SM power weapon, but of course, there'll be one, so that's another bug or two dead. Morale check for having lost combat will be at least -2, thus a good chance making a '7', but this means the Vespid have lost their advantage. An easy morale check of '8' and then they'll get cut down in the return round of SM fire, being a measly 5 armor save. And keep in mind, vanilla SM are rare, at least at my FLGS, so you're likely looking at SW or BA who have 2 h2h attacks. Chaos Marines?

Maybe Vespid will get a boost in the next 'dex, but for now, I'd advise to drop them for the other things I've listed.

im2randomghgh wrote:20xKroot, 1 Shaper, 5 Kroot Hounds-211 pts
12xFW, 1 is Shas'ui, ML, GD-150 pts
11xFW, 1 is Shas'ui, ML-130 pts

Drop Markerlights as they'll not help too much and I've found my FWs most effective with moving, in a d'fish, etc.

im2randomghgh wrote:Total: 1548 I want to get this army 1500 pts>, and at the same time want to add more battlesuits, but i don't know where to take pts out.
Also, this army is supposed to be Anti-Elite/Meq, which is why i have so many FW and XV88s
Any advice?

The Vespid just aren't competitive, so they ought to go.
There aren't too many 'Tau' C&C threads on dakka, so it'll be easy enough to find them, and check the advice I, FlingitNow, The_Bringer and a couple other knowledgable tau players give.

Also, read AdvancedTauTactica.com. It'll bring your game up a lot faster.

Brothererekose wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:Broadside with TL PR, Multi-Tracker, 2x Broadside with SMS Targeting Array-

They really need 2 Shield Drones to survive, and go with all A.s.s., Team Leader, Bonded.

I was just taking the TAs because it brings their chance to hit up to 89%, in a 6 round game that's ~5.3 hits, x3= 16, with STR 10 AP 1 that's sixteen dead MEqs, but i might change it anyways, as the regular 13.5 dead MEqs is still impressive, and they're still useless dead.

Most of the other advice ill probably go with, especially the vespis thing, i just assumed they were anti-MEq capable due to their speed and their Vespid Neutron Blasters. When i fix my list I'll post it.

Yeah for being an anti-MEQ list, this doesn't have much MEQ killing ability.

First off, get in more crisis suits. The fireknife configuration (Plasma rifle, missile pod, multi-tracker) is your bread and butter. These guys are going to nom-nom on marines like its their job (actually it is there job). Another option if the deathrain (TL missile pod, targetting array). While less shots, they are very accurate and will almost always land a hit. Drop the Stealth suits, they aren't going to be much help. If they are the only models you have though use them, as they aren't bad. XV8's are just so much better.

Shadowsun is honestly overpriced. She doesn't really bring anything to the table that a normal commander can't.

Don't put the plasma rifles on the broadside. Its kind of a waste of points, and the SMS is just too awesome. Also, I would go with ASS on them, so that way they are able to move and shoot. TBH broadsides are total overkill if you are trying to kill marines. Granted you get one shot with each, and its going to instakill, but its only one shot. Yay! Congratulations! you just killed a tactical marine.

If you really want anti meq, put an ioncannon on your hammerhead. It will save you like 40 points, and its AP3, so say good by to that power armor. You do trade out the big blast template though...

Pathfinders are ok, just get a disruption pod on the fish.

Like Brothererekose mathhammered, vespids just aren't viable. They are a good concept, but they blow on the table. I do have a theory on how they can become Tau's biggest upset in the update, but thats neither here nor there. Take them out.

Take away the Shaper.

im2randomghgh wrote: and shapers give an armour save to the otherwise unprotected kroot.

This would be true, if you had bought said armor. You need to pay 1 point per kroot in order to give them that save. Which just isn't worth it.

Take the markerlights off the shas'ui. They aren't going to do anything for you. Also, I'm assuming a GD is a gun drone. Get rid of it. It isn't going to add to your offensive output.


If you want anti-meq, the best place to get that is crisis suits.

Praetordave I agree with almost everything you said...except the ML which boost the entire squads BS by one. that's probably worth 10 pts. And the reason for the railgun on the HH is that the MEqs im hoping to hunt are GK and are considerably harder to kill. TY for the tips tho.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
O'Shaserra or O'Shovah


Automatically Appended Next Post:
?

The MLs that a shas'ui would carry aren't networked. This means his own squad cannot benefit from it, only units shooting after his squad. If you are looking for networked ML support you will need to bring a marker drone instead, and those cost 30 pts.

Also don't GKs have the same armor saves as regular SMs for the most part?

HQ: O'Shaserra (or O'Shovah?) -175pts (170pts)

Elites: 3x FireKnife-186pts (unless I fethed up my math lol)
2xDeath Rain + 1 w/BC MP Multi-tracker-156pts
3x XV25 TA-120

Heavy Support: 2x XV88 1 MT 1 A.S.S-155pts
Railhead+BC+DP-155pts

Fast Attack:
Pathfindersx5 + mandatory DF+FD-138

Troops:
10x Kroot 5xKroot Hounds-110pts
12xFW,Shas'ui with ML-140pts
12xFW Shas'ui with ML-140pts

Total:1475 (1470)pts
any ideas to fill in those 25 (30) pts?

Don't take O'Shovah. He is terrible. He is outfitted for CC, however he doesn't have the stats for it. He also boosts the combat abilities of the whole army. Good job, you have just made them marginally better in an area that they are awful at. On top of that, he limits what units you are allowed to take, so your list currently would be illegal if you put him in. Honestly, all of the special characters in the tau book are awful, and O'shaserra is merely OK, but certainly not worth her points.

If you put ASS on one broadside, the whole squad MUST have it. Read the section for that one again.

I'm assuming the Devilfish does not have Fire Dragons, so lets assume thats a flechette discharger. And you want the disruption pod, not the flechette discharger. Well you could take both, but get the dpod first. Plus you will save 5 points going with the dpod over the flettchete.

Get bonding knives on your firewarriors, and get rid of the markerlights. As Choboking said, the firing unit can not benefit from them. Plus they are heavy, so they force the squad to stand still to fire them.

To fill out your points, you can add in some more pathfinders or turn your Dfish into a warfish (Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod, Multi-tracker, Target Lock). Notice thats an OR. Don't try to get both and half-ass it.

Also, I don't understand your reasoning about the railguns and grey knights. Grey knights still only have 3+ armor, just like every other power armored marine. And when shooting marines Ap3=AP1.


Other than those things your list looks good

If you are trying to optimize point potential, here is what I would do.

1. Drop farsight. Apart from being a fun list to play, he is pretty terrible and double the cost of a basic HQ
2. Drop stealth suits. IMO if you dont field 9x suits, you are short on firepower.
3. Make all three of your deathrains the same. Drop the BC one- 18 inch shot on a crisis suit is a suicide mission.
4. Your heavy support is illegal. If you take A.S.S. on one, you have to take it on both. In my experience, if you are fielding 2 broadsides, A.S.S. isnt worth the points to take. I'd give them something cheaper, maybe MT.
5. I'm not sure if your DF has DP on it or not, but put them on. 5 points for one of the best things in Tau armory.
6. Give your railhead MT. Lets you shoot after moving 12, or fire both weapons after 6. Pretty much mandatory for a Tau army. Also, maybe consider adding target lock so you can shot at different targets when moving 6.
7. Drop the ML on firewarriors. That's 40 points that could be put somewhere else. One shot, and its a heavy shot in a unit of rapid fire weapons.
8. I like the path finders and the kroot
9. Consider taking some pirahnas. They can be useful as distration and shield units.]

When I make a list, the first thing I do is fill out all of my crisis suit slots, then start filling in everything else.

PraetorDave wrote:Don't take O'Shovah. He is terrible. He is outfitted for CC, however he doesn't have the stats for it. He also boosts the combat abilities of the whole army. Good job, you have just made them marginally better in an area that they are awful at. On top of that, he limits what units you are allowed to take, so your list currently would be illegal if you put him in. O'Shaserra it is

If you put ASS on one broadside, the whole squad MUST have it. Read the section for that one again. I'll fix that.

I'm assuming the Devilfish does not have Fire Dragons, so lets assume thats a flechette discharger. And you want the disruption pod, not the flechette discharger. Well you could take both, but get the dpod first. Plus you will save 5 points going with the dpod over the flettchete. Good advice. Ill try for both.

Get bonding knives on your firewarriors, and get rid of the markerlights. As Choboking said, the firing unit can not benefit from them. Plus they are heavy, so they force the squad to stand still to fire them.

with the ML i was going to use them go either have the two squads benefit from each other, or rid the GKs of cover. I may get rid of it tho. heavy isn't very good for an army that has to run and shoot.

To fill out your points, you can add in some more pathfinders or turn your Dfish into a warfish (Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod, Multi-tracker, Target Lock). Notice thats an OR. Don't try to get both and half-ass it.

Probably going to fill out PF, the only issue is that it makes them a more tempting target. 5 models aren't as likely to get fired upon. (also because i already built my Dfish...hehe)

Also, I don't understand your reasoning about the railguns and grey knights. Grey knights still only have 3+ armor, just like every other power armored marine. And when shooting marines Ap3=AP1.

Cuz' he has NDK 'nuff said. (and i've never liked IC, don't know why, just don't)

Other than those things your list looks good

im2randomghgh wrote:HQ: O'Shaserra (or O'Shovah?) -175pts (170pts)

The reason why you take this guy is so that he can bring in tons of Crisis Suits, not for his h2h abilities. And even then, he's a tough list (properly kitted out) to play. You're better off with a standard Shas'el, Target Array, PR/MP, hwMT and call it good.

im2randomghgh wrote:Elites: 3x FireKnife-186pts (unless I fethed up my math lol)
2xDeath Rain + 1 w/BC MP Multi-tracker-156pts
3x XV25 TA-120

Better.

im2randomghgh wrote: 2x XV88 1 MT 1 A.S.S-155pts

As PraetorDave pointed out, with A.s.s. all the suits have to take it. You mentioned having a Target Array helping increase BS, which is good, but the thing is, 5e offers so much in cover saves for vehicles, that you need the b-sides to move just a bit to deny those saves. Also, b-sides get targeted first by enemies every time. One round of shooting and this pair is gone, even in Cover. Shield Drones give them enough life for possibly two rounds of shooting, which might be enough to take the heat off them. If XV88s survive to turn 3, odds are you've crippled the enemy's mobility enough that they'll stay alive the whole game. And they NEEEEED shield drones to do it.

im2randomghgh wrote:Railhead+BC+DP-

Several of us have recommended the MT, here's why:
Without the MultiTracker:
Move Combat Speed and shoot one gun. Stand still and shoot all guns (standing still is bad as, if assaulted, getting hit is automatic). Move Cruising speed and shooting nothing.

*With* the MultiTracker:
Move Combat Speed and shoot both guns. Move Cruising speed and still shoot the RG.

Every time, an MT.

im2randomghgh wrote:12xFW,Shas'ui with ML-140pts
12xFW Shas'ui with ML-140pts

Here's how the MarkerLights work:
Unit A shoots at some guants. The ML hits and the FWs shoot, unable to use the ML, because it is not Networked, as poster Choboking pointed out. If there are any guants left, Fire Warrior Unit B can use it, for increased BS or subtracting Cover. Generally, MLs just aren't worth it in the FW units. You have a PathFinder crew for MLs and that will be good.

im2randomghgh wrote:any ideas to fill in those 25 (30) pts?

After trimming the MLs out, pay for the Railhead's MT and then Shield Drones, Team leader and Bonding for the B-sides.

What would give the '88s a longer lifetime: SG or SD?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*sheepish grin* the reason for stealth suits/XV8 w/BC MP is that i already assembled my battle force. If I hadn't i would have made a warfish. I will probably change the B-sides up some. I'll post a new list 2moro and get your input on that.
Sound good? TY for all the help btw, I appreciate it

shield drones, for sure. Think of it this way- if the shield generator fails, the suit could die. If a shield drone fails, you lost a shield drone.

bdix wrote:shield drones, for sure. Think of it this way- if the shield generator fails, the suit could die. If a shield drone fails, you lost a shield drone.

...and have to take a leadership test

PraetorDave wrote:

bdix wrote:shield drones, for sure. Think of it this way- if the shield generator fails, the suit could die. If a shield drone fails, you lost a shield drone.

...and have to take a leadership test

And if you fail, you're not regrouping.

HQ:
O'Shaserra-175pts

Elites:
3x Fireknife-186pts
2x Deathrain + 1 w/ BC/ MP/ Multi-Tracker-156pts
3x XV25 TA-120pts

Heavy Support:
2xXV88, 1 w/ MT, 1 w/ SD-160pts
1x Railhead w/ BC, DP-155pts

Fast Attack:
5x Pathfinders + Mandatory Dfish w/ FD, DP-143pts

Troops:
10x Kroot Carnivores, 5x Kroot Hounds-110pts
12x FW, Shas'ui, Bonding Knife-135pts
12x FW, Shas'ui, Bonding Knife-135pts

Total: 1475 (once again, unless i fethed up my math, just did it in my head)

Bulk the Kroot? or Pathfinder? I kinda wanna keep the pathfinders small because a small unit of scouts isn't worth firing at. right?

I'd say.. Kroot.

A small unit of scouts is worth firing at if they are #1 Pathfinders, and #2 weak and take very little firepower to kill... but I'd still go with kroot.

The Bringer wrote:I'd say.. Kroot.

A small unit of scouts is worth firing at if they are #1 Pathfinders, and #2 weak and take very little firepower to kill... but I'd still go with kroot.

Carnivores or hounds?

Also I might just use my points to pimp out my RH.

Would that be a good enough option?

Now that I think about it, give it to the railhead.

Multi-Tracker and Target lock.

With the ten points spare... do what you want. Your railhead needs no more after the MT and TL.

I say drop the stealth suits, drop a couple FW, use those points + left over points for more 3 crisis suits. Just sayin'. I think my efforts are futile though since you seem sold on stealth suits.

The reason i am determined to include stealth suits is because I already assembled and hand painted (a darker version of sa'cea colour scheme) them.

Without really dropping much, what can I add? (in terms of wargear/ Vehicle Upgrades?)

Beyond the HH upgrades there isn't really anything big 10 points can accomplish.

I'd just go for one more kroot hound in your unit have go with 4 points leftover...

I would say add more pathfinders if you have the models. Any player worth their salt is going to try and kill you pathfinders. So adding one or two more really isn't going to do much, except give you more markerlights, and make the unit more survivable.

with the aforementioned railhead upgrades, i would be two points over 1500 if I were to include another PF.

I'll go w/ the extra Kroot Hound.

im2randomghgh wrote:The reason i am determined to include stealth suits is because I already assembled and hand painted (a darker version of sa'cea colour scheme) them.

Without really dropping much, what can I add? (in terms of wargear/ Vehicle Upgrades?)

Sticking with the models, as glued -it happens- add 3 Stealths to make them a good anti-I threat. Later, when you can afford it, you'll get the extra XV8s; and your stealths will collect dust, like mine.

At this point, the list is as tight as it can get, before spending cash. Play it. Several times until you get it working. PM me or The_Bringer or FlingItNow or others for further tutelage. And read Advancedtautacica.com.

Now, I'm off to assemble Dark Eldar, for the Greater Evil.