Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ignorance to knowledge request. If you please.

Currently rewatching the BSG reboot, and am on to the last season.

Then lawyer pulls a four chambered pistol on Lee Adama. From a cursory google, I know what the pistol is. But the ammo is described as Magnum?

Now, as a totally ignoramous when it comes to guns, is that the same magnum round as Dirty Harry?

With regard to ammunition "Magnum" just means that it is a longer than standard cartridge, the classic Dirty Harry revolver was IIRC a .44 Magnum but there are a whole host of other Magnum pistol rounds varying greatly in how powerful they are, like .357 Magnum and .22 Magnum among others but I think those would probably represent the three most common, there are Magnum shells for shotguns and I believe there have been Magnum rifle rounds too but I'm not 100% sure on that.

With a non-semiautomatic chambered for a Magnum round it is usually compatible with the standard or parent round the Magnum round was based on, so for example a .357 Magnum revolver will probably also fire .38 Special ammunition since the shorter cartridges will fit inside the chamber, it doesn't work the other way round though,

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
Anybody here into AK-74s or anything else that shoots 5.45mm? Anyone who is into AKs prefer 5.45mm over 7.62mm?

What about 5.56mm AKs? I've heard 5.56mm AKs do well with steel cased ammo. Do 5.56mm AKs have issues shooting brass cased ammo instead of steel though?

I've got a 5.45 Bulgarian SLR-104fr, an AK74M copy. The 5.45 round really is excellent, for any sort of target/distance shooting I'd take it over 7.62x39 any day of the week. I really like 5.45 as a shooter.

The problem is that cheap surplus ammo is banned and commercial imports can disappear at any time because its all from Russia/Ukraine, and no 5.45x39 guns are being imported anymore or likely ever will be again (russian imports are banned, Bulgaria doesn't want to make them anymore for a number of reasons, nobody else is making them, and even parts kits are drying up), and only one domestic company makes 5.45 ammo and its not cheap. Also, there just doesn't exist the same variety and quality of 5.45 ammo that exists for 5.56 guns.

5.56 AK's can be fantastic, but mags are something of an issue, seemingly everyone's 5.56 AK mags are slighly different from everyone else's (largely due to 5.56 AK's being disparate creations of many different nations rather than a centralized pattern copied by others) and as such mag compatibility can be an issue, but it's not as bad as it used to be and Bulgarian mags will work in *almost* anything. If you can find one and some decent compatible magazines however, they're great.

Never seen issues with brass or steel cases either way in AK's. As long as the mag is good and the chamber machined correctly, it should work just fine. That said, you are more lilely to run into a failure to extract with 5.56, simply because of the lack of taper like a 5.45 or 7.62 case, but no moreso than any other 5.56 gun and with no bearing on steel vs brass.

Thanks! It's too bad that 5.45mm availability isn't what it was, but it looks like ammunition can still be found for decently cheap. For steel cased ammunition (in general, not just 5.45mm), how big of a difference does the coating make? I've seen steel cased ammo coated in lacquer, polymer, and zinc, and I'm wondering if there is advantages or disadvantages to any of those.

I've tried to shoot lacquer coated 7.62x39 in my mini-30. It works okayish. if you do a lot of rapid shooting there could be a possibility of some of that lacquer melting and gumming up your breach. not that hard to clean off though.

A deal that was too good to pass up. Brownells had a special on Howa .308 barreled actions, which also lined up with $20 off promotional code, and I also had a $20 off next purchase code. So, I picked up a new heavy barreled action for $189, and snagged a new factory stock for $53 on eBay using their recent discount. I also have some leftover weaver mounts that will fit it. Now all I need is a decent scope.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I've tried to shoot lacquer coated 7.62x39 in my mini-30. It works okayish. if you do a lot of rapid shooting there could be a possibility of some of that lacquer melting and gumming up your breach. not that hard to clean off though.

So if there is a choice, does that mean you'd recommend getting polymer coated or zinc coated steel cased ammo over lacquer coated?

 Hordini wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I've tried to shoot lacquer coated 7.62x39 in my mini-30. It works okayish. if you do a lot of rapid shooting there could be a possibility of some of that lacquer melting and gumming up your breach. not that hard to clean off though.

So if there is a choice, does that mean you'd recommend getting polymer coated or zinc coated steel cased ammo over lacquer coated?

I can't speak for the polymer or zinc coated. I've never tried them. They might be worse, might be better. Educated guess though that the zinc might be better.

In an AK I've never seen coating matter, lacquer or otherwise. About the only thing ive seen with lacquet is lots of gunk left behind in the bolt, but nothing that stopped operation and only after an absurd amount of shooting without cleaning.

I'm having a bit of an issue with the new AK pistol I just got. The first thing I like to do is customize it. I got a new pistol grip that is ergonomic and feels great. However it's not playing nice with the single point sling attachment I got. The sling point attaches between the receiver and the pistol grip, and is making the pistol grip attach weirdly.

Are there any other sling attachments out there that attach to the rear of an AK pistol? Or if I wanted to go the cheap route, could I drill a hole in the rear of the receiver and bolt on a eye hook from the local hardware store?

Not too sure about sling attachment points in general though, the rear ends of AK receivers, particularly on pistols, can be really odd depending on who made it and when. Importers liked to do all sorts of weird things to receivers.

As for drilling one yourself, as long as you're not doing anything to a critical operating surface or putting in a huge rivet that the bolt carrier is going to slam into, you're probably ok, but I'm no gunsmith.

 Vaktathi wrote:

As for drilling one yourself, as long as you're not doing anything to a critical operating surface or putting in a huge rivet that the bolt carrier is going to slam into, you're probably ok, but I'm no gunsmith.

Yeah, if you are down low enough and far enough back that none of the moving parts will interfere it should be fine.

though on second thought, I'd check up on the wording of the laws around what is legally defined as a fully automatic weapon. as I recall it did involve the # of holes in the receiver, so putting a hole in might "technically" get you in trouble.

It's something to keep in mind for sure, drilling new holes always risks ATF attention, but in this case, as long as you aren't drilling them where the auto-sear would go, you should be fine, there's no law against drilling a hole for a sling loop, only against something that is readily convertible to a machinegun which such a sling loop hole would not be. That said, IANAL.

Hey guys, with all the firearm specialists here I thought maybe I could ask you for help.
Last summer, when I was cleaning out the attic of our old family dacha (lots of really interesting old stuff there), I came across this revolver:
(pictures spoilered for size)

I have never seen anything like it before. The chamber has holes in it on the back (to release fumes or gases?) and you have to open a little hatch in order to get access to the chamber for reloading (like the Nagant M1895). The firing mechanism is in working condition (though the ejector rod has gotten loose and falls out and the trigger won't stay folded up anymore) but I have no idea what kind of ammunition this gun fires. Judging from the size, I guess it would be something like a 7-8mm round (it is similar in size to a Nagant M1895 revolver).
Anyways, I am really curious to learn what this gun is and how old it is (it looks kinda old) but I am not very knowledgeable on revolvers (or any hand weapon really that isn't an AK or SKS rifle). I tried to do some searching on Google and rented a book about revolvers, but to no avail. So I was hoping that someone here knows a thing or two about revolvers and revolver manufacturers and could point me in the right direction.
The gun has only a a few small markings:

They are an H with a small 5-pointed star above it and an oval with the letters E, L and G in it along with another small 5-pointed star.

Any help is really appreciated. If I can find out what kind of munition this gun fires, I may actually try to see if I can get it firing again next summer.

That appears to be a Galand, which was invented by a french person around the late 1800s. I can't find a specific model, but it is closest to the "Velodog". It came in 8mm, .32, and 7.65.

By the look of the holes on the outside of the cylinder, I think it's a pinfire revolver, rather than a centre-fire.

Looks like a Belgian pinfire Lefaucheux revolver. I don't know much about them, but it's a cool find.

I suspect it's a 7mm of some sort, no idea on where one might find or make pinfire ammo unfortunately, though people do atill occasionally shoot such guns so its not possible.

Yup. Definitely a pinfire. Which means it's probably about a hundred years old.

In fact, it might even be this guy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodeo_Model_1889

The ELG with the star under it appears to be a Belgian black-powder difinitive proof mark, according to this: http://www.nramuseum.org/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf

Hope that helps your research!

Pinfire? To be honest I had never heard of that before, but it is really cool, because it was the first kind of metallic cartridge and it means that this revolver is really quite old (which means that the owner was likely my great-grandfather or even his father). Really a piece of firearm history. Unfortunately it also means that ammunition for it is pretty rare and I am unlikely to be able to get any. Probably still going to try fix the loose rod though.

I have looked up Lefaucheux revolvers, and they do look a lot like this one, so I think it is probably one of them. That would be consistent with the proof mark being from the Belgian city of Liége (good find Anvildude). I looked into that a bit more and it seems that his specific proof mark was in use since 1810 and continued to be used for breechloading handguns until 1924.
Considering that pinfire cartridges were invented in 1832 and started falling out of use after the 1860's (which was the height of their popularity), that gives about a 30-year frame in which my revolver was likely made (though it could also be made after that since pinfire revolvers continued to be made into the 1890's). That means this thing is like a 150 years old. It still looks and works pretty good taking that into consideration. It is easily the oldest gun I have ever had in my hands (not that I have a lot of guns).
Many of these guns appear to have been made by small gunsmiths and sold to military officers as 'private purchase', since at the time most militaries had not yet officially adopted metallic cartridge sidearms (France was the first in 1858). This is likely how this revolver ended up on the attic of our family dacha, considering both my great-grandfather and great-great-grandfather were military officers.

I am going to continue searching and see if I can find the exact model, and if I can figure out what that H with the start above means. So far I have looked at lots of pictures of Belgian 7mm pinfire revolvers and I found a near-perfect match, but it is on some auction site and doesn't have much information beyond that it came from Belgium.
Thanks a lot for pointing me in the right direction guys.

The H with the star above is the inspectors mark, probably a St. Etienne arsenal inspector. I dug around real quick but don't have a name for this weapons inspector.

the star over the letter makes this gun post 1877 but before (most likely) 1893, since the final proof lacks the crown that was adopted that year.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
The H with the star above is the inspectors mark, probably a St. Etienne arsenal inspector. I dug around real quick but don't have a name for this weapons inspector.

the star over the letter makes this gun post 1877 but before (most likely) 1893, since the final proof lacks the crown that was adopted that year.

Thanks! That is really useful information. That pins the date between 1877 and 1893.

I'm not sure you'd ever want to fire this weapon again, both for safety reasons and just in case it were to break.

That being said, a while ago I was watching the Outdoor Channel. They had a special episode of something, where they were showing what to do about weapons with outmoded ammunition. One part was how to convert an old rimfire rifle to accept new centerfire of a slightly different caliber, one was how to modify existing brass to convert the cartridge into an older round. The last one was how to convert a certain round from rimfire to pinfire, for use in an old pistol like yours. It didn't seem ridiculously complicated. I'll see if I can track down more info for you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Doing a little homework, it looks like what you actually have is a version of the Lefaucheux revolver.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lefaucheux_M1858

Wiki pic is from a later model than yours, and has a different grip and also has a trigger guard. Here is one more like yours.

https://www.riverjunction.com/z-Sold-Lefaucheux-Pin-Fire-Revolver-with-folding-trigger-_p_4254.html

https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/threads/fs-lefaucheux-pinfire-revolver-from-1800s.95882/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reloading supplies for your Pinfire.
http://www.hlebooks.com/pinfire/pin01.htm

I too would be hesitant to fire it before having it inspected by a qualified gunsmith.

I did a little more research on that pistol.

The folding trigger identifies it as the Lefaucheux "pocket" revolver variant

These were only made after 1866 until 1877.

Definitely Belgian. If it was military issued it would be single action, while civilian ones were usually double action. Your variety is more than likely a 7mm, although there is a chance it could be 7.7mm, or even 8mm.

Top detective work, everybody

Ian at Forgotten Weapons does a great overview of Pinfire guns, and I think one of the ones he has on the table is broadly the same as the one you found Iron_Captain, though the video is primarily about the Pinfire system than any one gun.

 Ouze wrote:
I too would be hesitant to fire it before having it inspected by a qualified gunsmith.

With how old the ammo for these guns is, I am more worried about having that inspected
I don't think I will fire it. Even if I were to somehow get pinfire ammo somewhere, it would be way too old and precious to actually fire. And making ammo myself with a reloading kit isn't something I have ever done before. I also don't know if I would be able to get a reloading kit legally. So I am probably just going to fix up and clean the revolver and put it up as a nice classy display piece in the dacha's living room. That will be really nice now that I know the story behind it.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I did a little more research on that pistol.

The folding trigger identifies it as the Lefaucheux "pocket" revolver variant

These were only made after 1866 until 1877.

Definitely Belgian. If it was military issued it would be single action, while civilian ones were usually double action. Your variety is more than likely a 7mm, although there is a chance it could be 7.7mm, or even 8mm.

Thanks a lot for the information. That narrows the date range down even more. This one has both single and double action. If you press the trigger, it cocks the hammer and releases it right away, but you can also cock the hammer manually and then it stays cocked until you press the trigger. It looks almost exactly like a Lefachaux M1858 revolver, except that it has no trigger guard, a folding trigger and a smaller grip. Therefore I think this is may be a pocket version of that revolver. Wikipedia mentions that it was also made in a double-action variant, and the Forgotten Weapons video says that Lefaucheux revolvers and copies of it were made in Liège as well.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
This one has both single and double action. If you press the trigger, it cocks the hammer and releases it right away, but you can also cock the hammer manually and then it stays cocked until you press the trigger.

Thats just Double Action, since I'm pretty sure all Firearms with Hammers can have them held in the cocked position. Double action just allows you to use the trigger instead of having to do it manually every time.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
So I am probably just going to fix up and clean the revolver and put it up as a nice classy display piece in the dacha's living room. That will be really nice now that I know the story behind it.

Wait, I don't think you're supposed to do that. I don't know much about this but there was a part of this thread way back when a dude was going to clean the patina off a old gun like that, and everyone said the patina added a lot of value or something. I imagine those same people who know more than I do will pipe up now.

Will make an awesome display piece for sure, rich with history.

Worst thing you can do is clean a old gun. Here is a pick of my 1865 colt all serial numbers match

https://imgur.com/gallery/nlvFSUh

 Chute82 wrote:
Worst thing you can do is clean a old gun. Here is a pick of my 1865 colt all serial numbers match

https://imgur.com/gallery/nlvFSUh

Never understood that. Over time it actually destroys the gun. Seriously, I have an 1813 Sutton that I maintain in fireable condition. It's worth more than most people's houses, yet I should allow it to rust?????

(It should be noted that I'm talking about Preservation, not buffing it or recoating it or any of that gak)

Patina is either oxidation or the remnants of the oils and stuff used to prevent oxidation.

In other words- it CAN'T harm a gun more than cleaning it could.

If it is oxidation, you'd want to seal it, yes, to prevent further oxidation, but that oxidation that's already on there is going to protect the surface from FURTHER oxidation. (Unless, of course, it's like, pitted/bright orange sort of really heavy, nasty rust. But in that case the weapon is probably beyond value anyways).

If it's the remnants of old oils with dirt in them, then it's probably the stuff meant to stave off oxidation in the first place.

In either case, cleaning it off removes that protective layer. Even if you replace it with something modern, you've still caused it to loose a little of its surface. And the value proposition is a historical thing- this is what the weapon looked like, these are the parts that were more worn, more touched. This is where/how it was stored. All that affects and can be read in the patina, to an extent.

Of course, always ask a Professional, as so few of us are.