Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Dynas wrote:
Are Veterans with Storm Bolters and STorm shields good as a "body Guard" Unit ot protect characters?

If so, I am looking at bits bashing, i notice the stormshield and storm bolter are both right handed weapons. ANyone have any idea how to model this WYSIWYG?

Use the GK Strike Squad Storms and use a knife to scrape off the fancy designs. You could also use the FW boarding shields upgrades as those are left handed. There's a few options for you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also they really aren't a good bodyguard but probably the best source for pure Storm Bolters.

 Dynas wrote:
Are Veterans with Storm Bolters and STorm shields good as a "body Guard" Unit ot protect characters?

If so, I am looking at bits bashing, i notice the stormshield and storm bolter are both right handed weapons. ANyone have any idea how to model this WYSIWYG?

Use the Vanguard Veteran kits, those Storm Shields are on the left hand.

I don't think Space Marine Veterans are good body guard to the HQs, their "Look out Sir" is the trash version compare to what Tau and DG have. However, if you take Veteran on Bikes from the Index, and loadout as what you proposed, max up the number for the unit and give them Ultramarine CT, it can be a great anti-horde unit with pretty good mobility and resilence. Of course, unless you run into massed flying units with mortal wound spam. But as Space Marines, you are likely gonna to lose against that kind of army anyway no matter what you do.

Hi guy's. Looking for some advice from people actually played 8th edition with space marines.

I'm currently starting a space marine army. I know it's not the best codex right now but I would like it to be as competative as it can be. Looking at what kind of an army I would like to play two chapter tactics look appealing to me.

1. Ultramarines, CT looks good but the real benefit using UM seems to be to take Bobby G.
2. Raven Guard, verry good Chapter Tactics. But build more to be a devensive, shooting army I think.

So I have a few questions.

1. What CT do you preffer and why?
2. How much better is Guilliman than for example Shriek+ a Luitanant?
3. Are there any list build that seem do o.k? Any units (including FW) worth looking into? How are Sicaran tanks these days for example?

Raven Guard, because Guilli lists are a bore to play. If you value winning over enjoyment, go Ultramarines. That's obviously subjective, but I think it holds up to scrutiny, due to the necessity of castling up around the primarch to justify his high cost with maximum buffing.

some of your best units are bare-bone scouts, Dev squads with heavy bolter & misslie launcher to double-tap with mortal wound strats, leviathan dreads, captains with hammer and jump pack, asscan razorbacks, librarians from different chapters to stack the various disciplines, Deredeo dreads, Xiphons, and yes Sicarians are pretty good too. (Hellblasters with Ancients are powerful but fairly easy to counter, so don't make the list imo.) This could all change significantly with the upcoming chapter approved, though.

Finally, I recommend you paint your own colourscheme and run a successor chapter, as that will allow you to switch up CTs as you see fit, which makes your army a bit future-proof.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Guilli is way better than an LT, by the way, because of the effect he has when the gun you're firing is outmatched by the toughness of the target. Assault Cannons, for example, shooting at a Knight will force 3.6 saves with a Captain & LT bubble, compared to 5.9 with Big Blue. That's not quite double, but it is a big differenceq, especially when you're firing, say, 3 Razorbacks for 10.8 vs 17.7 forced saves...

Combine that with the importance of rate of fire (to help you overcome the many high-invuln units out there), and you start to get a picture of why Guilli is such hot stuff. He's a simply amazing counter-assualt unit too, boyyy his sword does work.

In that same boat too.
I am playing Black Templar so they are at a bit of disadvantage.
My friend plays Orks and with the new codex I got my butt handed to me in our last game.

Between "Teleportas" and "Da Jump" it gets really nasty with Ork instant assaults.

I pretty much found any kind of assault cannon seems to be the way to go, Auto-cannons is a good runner-up.
As mentioned 'bubble-wrap" became mandatory.

I was told I need to field 10 man squads or even the extra huge crusader squads... no.
Instead of 5 guys being eaten, 5 will and another five will run away re-rolls or not.

Marines are just freaking expensive in points and evaporate to buckets of melee dice at S4.

PLUS since blobs are so big, they declare an assault, contact say the squad in the middle and then pile-in move into other squads nearby on either side.

The trick is, it is quite difficult to get into a position to assault the Orks first, and there is little reply if they jump you first.
Flamers become a good means of sticking it to them but is rather ineffective for thinning the herd.

The StormRaven did very well till it got in range of Tankbustas... nasty.

Anyone have the answer to the rampaging hordes with a BT army or any non-Guiliman list?

Thanks.

Your best bet is Command Squads with Storm Bolters and Chainswords. That's literally it.

You can also ally in Deathwatch and take advantage of their Strategem to hit their charge. I know that's not an answer in the main codex though.

Lastly, how about the best source of Heavy Bolters available? Tarantula Sentry Guns are only 37 a pop for T5 W4 and a twin Heavy Bolter. When they're that cheap, you don't even care about the BS4+.

I'd hold off right now in regards to painting (if you're going to paint a specific chapter) until CA is down.

The leaks we are starting to get are starting to sound interesting, and it feels like Raven Guard are going to get kicked even harder with the removal of the -1 to hit trait.

faithonwings wrote:
Hi guy's. Looking for some advice from people actually played 8th edition with space marines.

I'm currently starting a space marine army. I know it's not the best codex right now but I would like it to be as competative as it can be. Looking at what kind of an army I would like to play two chapter tactics look appealing to me.

1. Ultramarines, CT looks good but the real benefit using UM seems to be to take Bobby G.
2. Raven Guard, verry good Chapter Tactics. But build more to be a devensive, shooting army I think.

So I have a few questions.

1. What CT do you preffer and why?
2. How much better is Guilliman than for example Shriek+ a Luitanant?
3. Are there any list build that seem do o.k? Any units (including FW) worth looking into? How are Sicaran tanks these days for example?

How competitive do you want to be? Local? ITC tourney?

What type of army do you want?

I play locally in a mixed group and I've done quite well with a shooty Power Armor swarm. I use UM tactics but no Guilliman, instead relying on a Chapter Master and Lt. to get my re-roll auras. Guilliman is good, but I don't like the model (or the concept), and he's really expensive anywyas, so I get by without him. I like UM tactics for two reasons. A: It's more similar to how ATSKNF used to work, and so I'm used to the way they play form prior experience, and B: I like shooting, and if a Raven Guard unit even gets touched, it can't shoot next turn, and that's a no-go for me.

In short my lists are lots of bodies, with lots of guns and lots of rerolls. Currently I'm running the Relic Banner, lots of Plasma Devastators, a bunch of Tacs and a bunch of Rhinos. I expect I'll be rearranging things after the Chapter Approved comes out, but I'll probably stick with the theme.

. . .

Always the best advice is to paint your models in your own scheme, that way you can be flexible as editions, options and metas change. My scheme is custom.

 Insectum7 wrote:


As a side note, one thing I've noticed locally is that nobody mixes Primaris and standard marines. I wonder what GW thinks of that.

Funny...I’m doing this: literally.

Hellblasters are going to be my plasma gun tac marines. Also 10 man intercession squad and five 5-Man tac squads with 2 plasmas a piece.

CA has me exited as hell about my Fists-to-be!

 Talizvar wrote:


Anyone have the answer to the rampaging hordes with a BT army or any non-Guiliman list?

Thanks.

Posted a a salamander list a bit back that I've fought against orks hordes twice and won both times (using ITC mission types). In one game I killed 164 boy bodies. It was a bloody affair, all I had was an 8 wound knight, a venerable dread, a 5 man tac squad, a librarian, and a captain left over. But all he had was a squad of gretchin sitting on an objective in the corner.

Dealing with hordes is really just a question of how can you section out the enemy forces into bite sized chunks and completely destroy them. This is especially true against orks because of how neighboring mobs will affect leadership.

Marines have a couple ways of sectioning:

Scouts: Scouts are actually one of the best screening units in the game. They are a 55 point speed bump that can hold back entire mobs of boys. I always have at least two of them with BP CCWs. They can buy you the time you need.

Rhinos/Razors: As much as they're a bit overpriced rhinos are actually incredibly useful against boy hordes. They will protect your infantry from small arms, and after they disembark they can be used to either block. They can also be used to clip enemy mobs and make them useless. If you have a rhino and there is a 30 boy mob spread out across a front. Use the rhino and charge the corner of the formation (preferably the corner furthest from any PKs). You have now severely limited what that mob can do until the rhino dies.

Thunder Fire Cannon Strategem: Just pointing at squad and saying they aren't going to be in the fight (as long as you can hit) for another turn is a big deal.

Last stand: Sometimes you need to toss away one 5 man squad as a speed bump so you can get some space with the rest of your army.

After you section it becomes focusing down whats the most threatening unit, and the ones that you can leverage fire on.

Also (especially because your BT) don't be afraid to charge diminished ork squads. To win against those sort of hordes you have to be leveraging all the attacks from your model. The BT special strategem is also really synergistic with scouts against Da' Jump. 24" chance to deny on a 50% for 1 CP (or 75% for 2) can shut down a lot of the momentum before it gets started. If your using scouts as screens anyways it can kill two birds with one stone.

Heya folks!

So I'm a bit out of the loop when it comes to space marine tactics. I'm currently building an Ultramarines primaris army, but I wanted to add some first company assets to it in the form of a vanguard detachment. I don't plan to run the first company I use competitively (I know that terminators aren't exactly a competitive choice) but I think that even in casual games I'm going to have to outfit them to the best possible way to get some good use from them.

I'm wanting to stay terminator focused with no more than 1 power armor veteran squad. I like terminators and want to use them.

I'm thinking no more than 1000 points, but regularly taken at 750.

So, my questions are:

1) what first company to use? I'm torn between Ultramarines, Death Wing and possibly Black Templars. The base of the army they will be fighting with will be my Primaris Ultramarines led by Guilliman and NuCalgar.

2) after answering #1, what kind of load out should I take on the squads?

Thanks in advance.

If you wanna use First Company, just go with Vanguard and Sternguard. Neither are really great, but Vanguard with dual Chainswords actually have a role they fill.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If you wanna use First Company, just go with Vanguard and Sternguard. Neither are really great, but Vanguard with dual Chainswords actually have a role they fill.

I use Vanguard only now, Sternguard are overcosted which make them also rubbish, they are maybe just a little less overcosted than Terminators....

I've decided to have a go at a slamander army and want to include vulkan. I'm a craftworlds player so not massively familiar with marines. What are good picks to take advantage of his flamer/melta buff? I wondered about two squads of devastators with four multi meltas in a castle, starting in a couple of razorbacks. But I'm sure there are better options I don't know about.

If your using Vulkan your usually gonna wanna get up in it with him. He's too expensive to just sit the backfield giving buffs.

I'd honestly take him with tac squad and razorbacks/rhinos

Tac squads are great in Salamanders because of their trait. Take the one special weapon and the one heavy weapon in every tac squad. Then combat squad when the game starts to allow the reroll on both.

Dreads are nice as well, as you can take the fist/melta cheap dreads and have them run up the board behind your rhinos/razerbacks.


Best ally for Salamanders is definately a Castellan Knight if your playing a passive style. If your playing an aggressive style go with some Custodes shield captains or Blood Angels deepstriking in for some massive beta striking though.

Thanks for the advice, tactical squads with melta or flamers does seem the best way to go. Four min squads with flamer and a combi flamer riding in a pair of rhinos seems to be the basis of a decent anti screen force.

Flamers are crap for clearing screens. If you wanna clear screens, you want to avoid Tactical Marines and use Company Vets with all Storm Bolters and Chainswords.

kingheff wrote:
Thanks for the advice, tactical squads with melta or flamers does seem the best way to go. Four min squads with flamer and a combi flamer riding in a pair of rhinos seems to be the basis of a decent anti screen force.

For Salamanders Tacs, Meltas definitely. Flamers, sadly you should leave at home for now. Like Slayer says, Command Squads with Storm Bolters and Chainswords are great for clearing screens. Sternguard can double-duty here too, and you can round them out by taking their special guns instead.

 Insectum7 wrote:

kingheff wrote:
Thanks for the advice, tactical squads with melta or flamers does seem the best way to go. Four min squads with flamer and a combi flamer riding in a pair of rhinos seems to be the basis of a decent anti screen force.

For Salamanders Tacs, Meltas definitely. Flamers, sadly you should leave at home for now. Like Slayer says, Command Squads with Storm Bolters and Chainswords are great for clearing screens. Sternguard can double-duty here too, and you can round them out by taking their special guns instead.

The only reason to take Sternguard in that situation is for either Heavy Bolters or Grav Cannons. Otherwise, they're identical except the Company Vets get free Chainswords.

Another aspect is the smaller starting squad size. You can have just 3 or 4 dudes in a squad. If you're rounding out a Brigade that can be important.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
. . .in that situation . . .

That's why I said double-duty. Sternguard w/ fancy bolters are still pretty good at clearing hordes, but they do better than Storm Bolters against more elite things, like Custodes, or models with a 2+ like marines in cover, or whatever.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
. . .in that situation . . .

That's why I said double-duty. Sternguard w/ fancy bolters are still pretty good at clearing hordes, but they do better than Storm Bolters against more elite things, like Custodes, or models with a 2+ like marines in cover, or whatever.

The amount isn't by enough that it warrants consideration. That's why it's determined by you wanting Heavy Weapons in your squad or not. Regarding Custodes though, it'll be Grav Cannons doing most of the work, and Imperial Fists/Iron Warriors will shoot up in popularity once we have confirmation about the army-wide -1 To Hit abilities (meaning what Marines in cover?)

 Insectum7 wrote:

kingheff wrote:
Thanks for the advice, tactical squads with melta or flamers does seem the best way to go. Four min squads with flamer and a combi flamer riding in a pair of rhinos seems to be the basis of a decent anti screen force.

For Salamanders Tacs, Meltas definitely. Flamers, sadly you should leave at home for now. Like Slayer says, Command Squads with Storm Bolters and Chainswords are great for clearing screens. Sternguard can double-duty here too, and you can round them out by taking their special guns instead.

That's a shame, it's nice and thematic. Are tactical squads good at getting close enough to vehicles to make use of the meltas?

Blood Angels Assault Marines and Raptors aren't even good enough to do that with the amount of mobility they have. Hell, Drop Pods are gonna be 65 points or so, and they still wouldn't deliver Multi-Melta Devastators efficiently.

As people have said above, never use Multi-meltas or flamers. They are just bad unfortunately.


I've been running a salamander list using 5 tac squads running melta/combi-melta/chainsword. Plopping them in rhinos and sending them up the board. The rhinos protect the marines from anti-infantry fire while I run a knight to soak AT fire from the rhinos. If you aren't using a knight find something that is more immediately threatening to the enemy while also being somewhat durable (leviathans come to mind)

If you go with melta guns, you are ceding the fact that a lot of your damage is going to come turn 2. That's but it also means when you hit you need to be really aggressive.

The other problem you'll run into with a list like this is that rhinos and tacs aren't particularly point efficient if your just using their shooting stats. You will need to shoot big stuff with meltas, small stuff with bolters, and then charge the smaller stuff if they happen to be guardsmen or firewarriors. Rhinos with 2 stormbolters can provide some decent fire support against chaff but they can also be used to charge block and muck up units.

Some notes on positioning, Rhinos are great at absorbing smite spam, make sure they are closer to enemy psykers than your marine squads and more important units. They can also pop a 1 CP stratagem to ignore MWs on a 5+.

Also, krak grenades. The number of high value targets that I've finished with krak grenades is absurd. You'll be trying to get within 6 of targets anyways so don't forget them.

It's not a dissimilar way to how I run my eldar sometimes, with shuriken wave serpents carrying fire dragons and banshees or avengers.
I've been snouting around BattleScribe and venerable dreadnaughts with two twin auto cannons looks pretty tasty but looking at the store I'm not sure if you can build one from the kit?

Nah, you need to get the arms from FW. My friend said they were decent quality, so there's not a lot to worry about on that end.

faithonwings wrote:
Hi guy's. Looking for some advice from people actually played 8th edition with space marines.

I'm currently starting a space marine army. I know it's not the best codex right now but I would like it to be as competative as it can be. Looking at what kind of an army I would like to play two chapter tactics look appealing to me.

1. Ultramarines, CT looks good but the real benefit using UM seems to be to take Bobby G.
2. Raven Guard, verry good Chapter Tactics. But build more to be a devensive, shooting army I think.

So I have a few questions.

1. What CT do you preffer and why?
2. How much better is Guilliman than for example Shriek+ a Luitanant?
3. Are there any list build that seem do o.k? Any units (including FW) worth looking into? How are Sicaran tanks these days for example?

Just do what I'm doing and many other players do

Paint how you'd like to paint your models - don't put any insta recognisable chapter marks on it.

And just flit between books.

I intend to have my Homebrew Chapter who'll flit between chapters with the odd unit painted to a specific requirement. E.g. a Deathwatch squad.
Regarding independent characters - still use them just change up the paint job.

Big Gully - that UM logo he has on him - just paint it as a wreath and it hides the big U

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Nah, you need to get the arms from FW. My friend said they were decent quality, so there's not a lot to worry about on that end.

Is that the Mortis Dreadnaught mk 4 arms?

After all is said and done after chapter approved it still feels like were bottom tier. Guard, nids, and mechanicus all definitely moved up from higher mid tier to compete with dark eldar and eldar at the top.

Do we have the complete datasheets for Calgar, Honour Guard and their points?
He might be really good for my all Primaris army.