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Melissia wrote:How is that bad? That means they'll have ~2.5 years to perfect it.

Not even, more like 1.5-2

THQs Fiscal year ends in March, so March 31st 2012 will be the end of FY12 for THQ (they are currently in FY11) so that means that anywhere from April 1 2012 to July 1st 2012 will be Q1 FY 13 for them.

That's not exactly hard to do, considering how console RTS games have floundered and failed until recently. But yes, as I said,

By everything I know of that game it floundered and failed saleswise, or at the very least did not meet EAs expectations for sales. To date I'm not aware of any console RTS that has sold satisfactorily (the halo franchise included).

SupCom2 did, but I have no idea on the split between Xbox sales and PC sales.

I certainly wouldn't bet that the Xbox sales were impressive compared to the PC sales.

Well, as the Vigil Games boss said, this game is still years away. While the pics are done with the basic game engine, they won't say anything on the game play yet, as everything is in the flow. Good thing that the boss has been playing 40k since being a kid, so he got a real interest to make it right, not neglecting the RPG side of the game.

Concerning the rumoured Eldar side:
Many MMORPGs have a character class selection with a sorcerer (low armour range damage dealer), a buffer (healing and other stuff, usually better armoured), a fighter (close combat tank) and a shooter (ranged attacks, less armour) for each race.

For Edar this might be:
Warlock/ Farseer (male/female) as sorcerer
(Warlock or something new as buffer?)
Banshee or Scorpion as cc tank (less likely but cool: Harlequin)
Pathfinder as shooter

Sororitas is one possible buffer for the empire, but there are other options as well (penitent engine has nothing to do with Sororitas BTW).

Still, this is pure speculation ATM with no basis on facts or concrete rumours.

I can not see how it will be possible to use a traditional MMO formula for a 40k MMO. Especially given how the crux of 40k is combat oriented. I'm not saying it isn't possible, I'm saying I can't fathom how it would be arranged along those traditional formulas.

Until there is more concrete info to support what is being proposed on the game mechanics as a whole, I've got to just be patient and wait. Maybe, just maybe, we'll all be very pleasantly surprised. As it is now, I'm sort of cringing.

Rymafyr wrote:I can not see how it will be possible to use a traditional MMO formula for a 40k MMO. Especially given how the crux of 40k is combat oriented. I'm not saying it isn't possible, I'm saying I can't fathom how it would be arranged along those traditional formulas.

Until there is more concrete info to support what is being proposed on the game mechanics as a whole, I've got to just be patient and wait. Maybe, just maybe, we'll all be very pleasantly surprised. As it is now, I'm sort of cringing.

Virtually every MMO that has been released has been based on combat. I'm not sure what you mean here.

Personally I hope they stay away from the overdone character archetypes that make so many MMOs feel identical.
And the thought of a healer class in a 40k MMO just seems cheesy.

By the look of it, ranged will be similar to a 3ps shooter. CC I'm hoping will use Mount and Blade's combat mechanics, where you move the mouse in the direction you want the character to swing/block. Makes combat much more skill-testing and immersive

metallifan wrote:By the look of it, ranged will be similar to a 3ps shooter. CC I'm hoping will use Mount and Blade's combat mechanics, where you move the mouse in the direction you want the character to swing/block. Makes combat much more skill-testing and immersive

AS nice as this would be, I mean really nice. I doubt it would happen it would be very complex full of bugs and have loops holes somewhere to be exploited somehow !

But !

One can hope...one can hope.

I hope the Ranged combat will actually be good, and where you hit the person actually increases or decreases the damage you do and has different effects. For example hitting the legs reduces speed ever so slightly.

metallifan wrote:By the look of it, ranged will be similar to a 3ps shooter. CC I'm hoping will use Mount and Blade's combat mechanics, where you move the mouse in the direction you want the character to swing/block. Makes combat much more skill-testing and immersive

Now make that system work with standard three second mmo server lag (the gymnastics MMO programmers use to make it not seem like the game is lagging is amazing. They're wizards of their craft.) There's a reason "real time" gameplay in MMOs is essentially non existent and most go with initiative and stat based combat rather than skill or input base.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:I can not see how it will be possible to use a traditional MMO formula for a 40k MMO. Especially given how the crux of 40k is combat oriented. I'm not saying it isn't possible, I'm saying I can't fathom how it would be arranged along those traditional formulas.

Until there is more concrete info to support what is being proposed on the game mechanics as a whole, I've got to just be patient and wait. Maybe, just maybe, we'll all be very pleasantly surprised. As it is now, I'm sort of cringing.

Virtually every MMO that has been released has been based on combat. I'm not sure what you mean here.

I think what I meant here was that in 40k, at least looking at it from a TT perspective, everyone is a damage dealer. There are no specific classes that would sufficiently lend support in a party system, without really warping the idea that is 40k TT. Not that I expect a 40k MMO to play like the TT but I don't think every party(squad) would have say an Apothecary(Healer type). Just looking at the dynamics from the MMO I play now (Lineage2) It would be ridiculous to use those traditional MMO roles but just make it w/ Space Marines.

I've really thought about it the last several days and the only answer I can come up with is that Factions would have to be race specific. But even then, I don't see people going for guardsmen and SM in the same squad...so it would have to be even more specific. Again...the best thing is to wait til more info is released.

Rymafyr wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:I can not see how it will be possible to use a traditional MMO formula for a 40k MMO. Especially given how the crux of 40k is combat oriented. I'm not saying it isn't possible, I'm saying I can't fathom how it would be arranged along those traditional formulas.

Until there is more concrete info to support what is being proposed on the game mechanics as a whole, I've got to just be patient and wait. Maybe, just maybe, we'll all be very pleasantly surprised. As it is now, I'm sort of cringing.

Virtually every MMO that has been released has been based on combat. I'm not sure what you mean here.

I think what I meant here was that in 40k, at least looking at it from a TT perspective, everyone is a damage dealer. There are no specific classes that would sufficiently lend support in a party system, without really warping the idea that is 40k TT. Not that I expect a 40k MMO to play like the TT but I don't think every party(squad) would have say an Apothecary(Healer type). Just looking at the dynamics from the MMO I play now (Lineage2) It would be ridiculous to use those traditional MMO roles but just make it w/ Space Marines.

I've really thought about it the last several days and the only answer I can come up with is that Factions would have to be race specific. But even then, I don't see people going for guardsmen and SM in the same squad...so it would have to be even more specific. Again...the best thing is to wait til more info is released.

What if Morale was used for health instead, like LotRO? The squad leader could help people gain morale back by (obviously) supplying them with moral support.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
With that you could have quite a few things based off morale. like maximum damage, speed, etc. The closer you are to 75%+ the better you perform, but when your morale begins to fail you will not e able to perform as well.

c34r34lk1ll3r wrote:What if Morale was used for health instead, like LotRO? The squad leader could help people gain morale back by (obviously) supplying them with moral support.

I was just coming to post something along the same lines. I was thinking of the Captain in LotRO would be a good class to look at for healing without creating a specific healer that just hits a heal button. You pop an ork's head and the Brother Sergeant "rallies the troops" giving all the marines around him a heal over time, like the Captains battle shouts. Instead of having it all in one, you give everyone some way to do it a little so everyone relies on each other.

And the Battle Sister would not use magic to buff her allies, but prayer-chants in battle to encourage them, so that they fight their enemies with greater zeal (therefor doing more damage / shrugging off more damage / etc). That's what I meant when I said "buffer/healer", not actually someone who goes around healing. Battle prayers that are active while she fights.

Each pull of the trigger is a prayer. Each swing of the sword is a message.

I reeeeeeeeaaaaaallllly doubt that sisters will be represented with a playable character class in this game.

If anyone wants to play a game that's a mix of a FPS and MMO-style close combat (3rd Person) then google Savage 2 and download it. Really great game, and its free, and it also has one person take over an RTS role, where they build stuff for the players on the field and such.

ShumaGorath wrote:I reeeeeeeeaaaaaallllly doubt that sisters will be represented with a playable character class in this game.

*shrug* I don't know myself. I hope so. It would make sense, because the common perception (Even if incorrect) would be that they are female Space Marines, therefor creating an even split in genders, and because it would make sense for a short-ranged class based around flamers, meltaguns, and party support anyway.

I wouldn't be surprised that if there's a Inquisition expansion if the game gets popular

Luke_Prowler wrote:I wouldn't be surprised that if there's a Inquisition expansion if the game gets popular

Which would be cool, but I'd rather be a Sister than an Inquisitor.

Besides, really, how would you portray Inquisitors anyway? Each one is unique...

Party support? Because Sister, Marines, and Guard all run around in super friends squads in 40K?



PUH-LEASE.


The vehicle combat sounds badass though. I'll be more than happy to spend my days land raidering through the torn up streets of some cartoon looking city.

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:PUH-LEASE.

We're talking about an MMORPG with action elements.

Besides, having the Sisters class be a short-ranged flame/melta based class alone would be pretty neat. Not as much HP as a Marine, but equal armor, and better short-ranged firepower with flamers or meltaguns.

Melissia wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:I reeeeeeeeaaaaaallllly doubt that sisters will be represented with a playable character class in this game.

*shrug* I don't know myself. I hope so. It would make sense, because the common perception (Even if incorrect) would be that they are female Space Marines, therefor creating an even split in genders, and because it would make sense for a short-ranged class based around flamers, meltaguns, and party support anyway.

Given the likely gender split in the games playerbase (female MMO players seem to trend higher in fantasy MMOs in a statistically significant fashion) the attempt at creating a gender equal playerbase seems a bit foolhardy. Considering that three of the available races are either male only or don't even have a gender (space marines, chaos space marines, orks) the focus on the game and really the 40k universe itself isn't one of gender representation.

I would assume that GW and by extension the developer wants its most iconic and boxable assets in it's universe in the forefront. The sisters are the black headed step daughter of the 40k universe with stagnant sales, rare inclusion in anything resembling market penetrating products (soulstorm. Woo.), and very little outside interest by prospective customers. They don't even make a whole lot of sense in the game proper considering they are primarily a defensive force and I doubt the game is going to take place on a shrine world. I'm sure you'll see a sister NPC or two, but there's little reason for their inclusion as a player faction in my opinion.

This same explanation works for dark eldar (in the evil faction) as well.

ShumaGorath wrote:They don't even make a whole lot of sense in the game proper considering they are primarily a defensive force

No more than Guard.

Besides, you forget: The faction isn't listed as "Space Marines", it's specifically listed as "Imperium". Which means probably a Guardsman/Stormtrooper class, perhaps a Psyker class, and then naturally a Space Marine class would be likely. A Sisters class would round this out.

Am I saying this is likely? No. Only that it makes more sense to me than not including them. They aren't really going to rely on us 40k players to make money anyway. They're going to rely on a lot of people who quite frankly don't know much about the universe to begin with, and 40k players will probably be a minority.

Besides, not everyone who plays a female character is actually female themselves. I know plenty of people who use female characters if only because they'd rather stare at a female's back(side) for hours on end than a male's. *shrug*

No more than Guard.

The guard are the primary offensive organization of the imperium with tens of thousands of times the numbers of the sisters. The sisters are by eclesiarchichal law set down after the "thorian revolution" end to "the reign of blood" a shrine defensive force only and very rarely get carted around by inquisitors to do out of system combat.

They are a defensive force because imperial law decrees it. It's the entire point of their order. The eclesiarchy isn't allowed to have an offensive military force.

Besides, you forget: The faction isn't listed as "Space Marines", it's specifically listed as "Imperium". Which means probably a Guardsman/Stormtrooper class, perhaps a Psyker class, and then naturally a Space Marine class would be likely. A Sisters class would round this out.

As would a mechanicus class though the faction is listed as the forces of order, not the imperium and could well feature eldar or tau as well. Rounding out the list nicely is a subjective view, I don't think their inclusion would round it out in anything more than a politically correct gender neutral fashion (unless they are defending a shrine world in which case it would make sense). The guard and the mechanicus both feature women and the mechanicus doesn't use any form of segregation practices (the guard often utilize females as pdf troops or in female only detachments).

Am I saying this is likely? No. Only that it makes more sense to me than not including them. They aren't really going to rely on us 40k players to make money anyway. They're going to rely on a lot of people who quite frankly don't know much about the universe to begin with, and 40k players will probably be a minority.

The visual aesthetic of the guns with nuns does have appeal to that 14 year old boy in us all.

Besides, not everyone who plays a female character is actually female themselves. I know plenty of people who use female characters if only because they'd rather stare at a female's back(side) for hours on end than a male's. *shrug*

I know people like that as well, however statistical trends tend to speak for themselves and the majority of male players do run male characters.

ShumaGorath wrote:They are a defensive force because imperial law decrees it.

Then you do not know the faction. The Sisters of Battle are constantly undertaking Wars of Faith in the name of the Ecclesiarchy. Even if you had only read the third edition codex you'd know this.

the faction is listed as the forces of order

No, they are listed as Imperium, Eldar, Orks, and Chaos. Eldar and Imperium are grouped into "Forces of Order", Orks and Chaos are grouped into the other faction. It has never been just "Forces of Order".

Then you do not know the faction. The Sisters of Battle are constantly undertaking Wars of Faith in the name of the Ecclesiarchy. Even if you had only read the third edition codex you'd know this.

I think you need to go back and read the important bit where it states that such things are rarities within the imperium. They are common statistically because the imperium has over a million worlds. They are incredibly uncommon given the number of abbeys that do and do not participate in them. Every codex involving them has been explicit in noting that such crusades are against imperial law and that they are rare and often times unwelcome given the sisters penchant for just killing everything they can on a whim. The sisters do not maintain fleets, the are dependant entirely on either the imperial navy who don't like to involve foreign forces and the inquisition that will use them for in system combat or wars over short interstellar distances. The sisters don't just fly into space. You're not going to manage to pull off some sort of internet nerd fight concerning 40k fluff here, I'll go forever and my knowledge of this stupid and conflicting fluff setting is encyclopedic. SHUMA STRONG!

No, they are listed as Imperium, Eldar, Orks, and Chaos. Eldar and Imperium are grouped into "Forces of Order", Orks and Chaos are grouped into the other faction. It has never been just "Forces of Order".

It has never just been anything considering that this game is in early pre alpha. I know what has been stated in the interviews and trailers now released. Thats what I'm choosing to go from. They have used the terminology of order for the good guy side, not the imperium. This is likely kept intentionally loose in order to facilitate the inclusion of order aligned xenos without splitting the game into more than two warring factions.

ShumaGorath wrote:I think you need to go back and read the important bit where it states that such things are rarities within the imperium.

Cite your source. Book and page number.

And I will cite mine: C:WH, page six.

By late M36, the Sisters of Battle had become synonymous with the temporal power of the Ecclesiarchy, enforcing its dogma and prosecuting its wars across the galaxy.

Page seven lists several of these wars, including one in particular where one thousand Sisters conquered one hundred worlds.

Now, tell me-- if the Sisters rarely go to war, why, then, are they synonymous with war in the Ecclesiarchy's name, and fight the church's wars across the galaxy?

The reason is because you are wrong. The Sisters of Battle do not just sit around waiting for battle to come to them.

Here's a trailer.

Cite your source. Book and page number.

Only one i have on this computer is withchunters. Page 10 describes the sisters as a shrine defensive force and a form of religious police force first and as an offensive military force second making special mention that they follow the decree passive when such forces are formed forcing the induction of conscripted planetary men at arms. Given that neither the sisters nor the eclesiarchy are allowed to keep warfleets (only the mechanicus, rogue traders, and the imperial navy are allowed too) logic and the terminology used in this book dictates that the conflicts they participate in are most commonly in system or across short interstellar distances.

The book takes special care to note that the sisters are the chamber militant of the ordo hereticus which is by its nature an offensive organization. However by it's nature its also incredibly small compared to the sheer size of the adeptus sororitas and their inclusion within it's structure does not fundamentally alter the common practices of the sisters.

The witchhunters book is a 40k codex, it's going to talk an awful lot about great and glorious campaigns. It also makes note that these are not the common modus operandi of the adeptus sororitas and indeed the sisters aren't even a standalone codex in part for that reason (also poor sales).

Page seven lists several of these wars, including one in particular where one thousand Sisters conquered one hundred worlds.

Now, tell me-- if the Sisters rarely go to war, why, then, are they synonymous with war in the Ecclesiarchy's name, and fight the church's wars across the galaxy?

The reason is because you are wrong. The Sisters of Battle do not just sit around waiting for battle to come to them.

I know i stated this before, but your capacity for logical reading is questionable sometimes. The church holds power on every single planet in the imperium. Over one million planets. All defensive actions on imperial worlds have a chance of involving a faction of the adeptus sororitas. They are common. Since the eclesiarchy doesn't command the guard, the navy, or the marines logically every single one of it's wars has to be fought by the sisters. They are its only militaristic force. Thus they HAVE TO BE SYNONYMOUS with the churches wars. Also that book was written by an idiot. Lord solar macharius conquered one thousand worlds in his lifetime with one of the most massive military forces seen since the crusades involving several marine chapters and was sainted as the best imperial commander in 10 thousand years. One thousand sisters pulling off a similar feat? Puke.

I'm waiting for you to provide proof that Wars of Faith are rare. You have yet to do so.

It also makes note that these are not the common modus operandi of the adeptus sororitas

1: If you're going toi argue about the faction, at least spell its name right.
2: Nowhere in C:WH does it say this. Cite the page if you really want to press this issue, because I have the codex in front of me, and I find no such statements.


IF the lack of transportation is evidence of the faction being defensive, then the Guard are also defensive. The Guard are separate from the Navy. The Munitorum quite frequently just pays chartist captains and other private owners of space ships to transport combat forces from one place to another (a prime example of this is in the second Cain book). There is no reason the Ecclesiarchy, one of the richest (possibly the richest period) organizations in the Imperium, cannot afford to do the same thing.