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The new models are placed when the model is slain, so yes.

 Carnikang wrote:
Quick question on Pink splitting in reference to damage and such.

Does damage against the Pinks spill over into blues after the Pinks have been removed? As all damage is done/allocated after all attacks are done, if there are 20 Pinks, and you do 50 damage, will that extra 30 damage hit the blues too?

I just want to make sure as there are several Tzeentch players in town and I want to know how to try and combat this new build.

All damage is 1 by 1, you must allocate damage to pinks before blues, then to blues before brims.

So you take 15 damage, you deal 1 damage to 1 pink, removed it and place up to 2 Blues within 1" of that removed pink, you do this 9 more times (until all pinks are gone) then you start over with the blues and do the same thing, deal a wound to a blue, remove it and put down a brim, then go to the next blue and repeat

One small correction: After you remove a Blue, you can allocate the next wound to the Brimstone that replaces it if you so choose.

As Amish and EnTyme said, but note that each time a damage is allocated to a pink they ignore it on a 6+ (like undead do).

EnTyme wrote:One small correction: After you remove a Blue, you can allocate the next wound to the Brimstone that replaces it if you so choose.

Ah thanks my bad

NinthMusketeer wrote:As Amish and EnTyme said, but note that each time a damage is allocated to a pink they ignore it on a 6+ (like undead do).

And yes thanks forgot about that.

 Carnikang wrote:
Quick question on Pink splitting in reference to damage and such.

Does damage against the Pinks spill over into blues after the Pinks have been removed? As all damage is done/allocated after all attacks are done, if there are 20 Pinks, and you do 50 damage, will that extra 30 damage hit the blues too?

I just want to make sure as there are several Tzeentch players in town and I want to know how to try and combat this new build.

Yes the damage spills over into blues and brims as you allocate 1 at a time and always to pinks first.


Regarding placement if you can't place them in coherency for whatever reason then you can still opt to try and deal a mortal wound.

Tzeentch FAQ/Designer Commentary are up, and it looks like using Destiny Dice of 1 to bring back Horrors has been fixed. Using a Destiny Die now counts as a modified die for the purposes of save rolls and battleshock tests. Probably the way it should be. Also, you can no longer replace a single die on a casting or charge roll with a Destiny Die. You have to either use none or two.

Which all is good and what it should have been. Also Blue/Changeling are back to being unique's which is also good, and finally Changehost is only teleport 1 unit.

Well, destiny dice took a big hit then. Yeesh. I’d have been ok being wrong about the 2D6 thing, but killing off the 1’s get you more horrors hurts. I think any of the changes alone would have been good, but all of them together hurts. Basically everything unique that the book did was decidedly “too good” and removed. It was all of those abilities on top of each other that made it too good, not each one on their own.

I think my biggest issue with AoS right now is as soon as Chaos gets something flavorful, they remove it. The Varanguard change stung for no reason, and then they took ALL the fun stuff in the DoT book and kicked it down a flight of stairs. Baby and bath water and all that.

Its still a really good book, they just did what was intended i feel and only really nerfed 1 thing. The rest was just poorly written rules, or forgotten rules (like unique on some characters).

All in all they are fine, but KO needed a lot more faqs that they didn't get.

I still feel like Gaunt Summoners should be unique. They're not all that OP in my opinion, but it seems more lore-friendly. When you only have 9 Gaunt Summoners in the lore, it seems like a bad idea to risk 2+ in a single battle.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Well, destiny dice took a big hit then. Yeesh. I’d have been ok being wrong about the 2D6 thing, but killing off the 1’s get you more horrors hurts. I think any of the changes alone would have been good, but all of them together hurts. Basically everything unique that the book did was decidedly “too good” and removed. It was all of those abilities on top of each other that made it too good, not each one on their own.

I think my biggest issue with AoS right now is as soon as Chaos gets something flavorful, they remove it. The Varanguard change stung for no reason, and then they took ALL the fun stuff in the DoT book and kicked it down a flight of stairs. Baby and bath water and all that.

It's still a tier-1 army that kicks the snot out of most others...

EnTyme wrote:Tzeentch FAQ/Designer Commentary are up, and it looks like using Destiny Dice of 1 to bring back Horrors has been fixed. Using a Destiny Die now counts as a modified die for the purposes of save rolls and battleshock tests. Probably the way it should be. Also, you can no longer replace a single die on a casting or charge roll with a Destiny Die. You have to either use none or two.

There is actually some debate on this, the errata is very poorly worded and can be interrupted due to what an unmodified roll is. As it is, replacing a the battleshock roll with a 1 is technically an unmodified dice, because the core rules talk about what a modified dice roll is, I.E. adding +1/-1 modifiers to it. Really, the whole unmodified die rolls and the language in DD is a mess.

NinthMusketeer wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Well, destiny dice took a big hit then. Yeesh. I’d have been ok being wrong about the 2D6 thing, but killing off the 1’s get you more horrors hurts. I think any of the changes alone would have been good, but all of them together hurts. Basically everything unique that the book did was decidedly “too good” and removed. It was all of those abilities on top of each other that made it too good, not each one on their own.

I think my biggest issue with AoS right now is as soon as Chaos gets something flavorful, they remove it. The Varanguard change stung for no reason, and then they took ALL the fun stuff in the DoT book and kicked it down a flight of stairs. Baby and bath water and all that.

It's still a tier-1 army that kicks the snot out of most others...

Tzeentch is still really flavorful, and has a ton of unique mechanics behind it. DD got nerfed, but there is really so much going on with the Book. It's still easily a Tier 1 book, it's just no longer Tier 0.

 Sasori wrote:

EnTyme wrote:Tzeentch FAQ/Designer Commentary are up, and it looks like using Destiny Dice of 1 to bring back Horrors has been fixed. Using a Destiny Die now counts as a modified die for the purposes of save rolls and battleshock tests. Probably the way it should be. Also, you can no longer replace a single die on a casting or charge roll with a Destiny Die. You have to either use none or two.

There is actually some debate on this, the errata is very poorly worded and can be interrupted due to what an unmodified roll is. As it is, replacing a the battleshock roll with a 1 is technically an unmodified dice, because the core rules talk about what a modified dice roll is, I.E. adding +1/-1 modifiers to it. Really, the whole unmodified die rolls and the language in DD is a mess.

I agree; getting d6 horrors back with a 1 should still work. One is still treated as having rolled a 1, which is what the icon needs to trigger.

Tzeentch is still really flavorful, and has a ton of unique mechanics behind it. DD got nerfed, but there is really so much going on with the Book. It's still easily a Tier 1 book, it's just no longer Tier 0.

Totally agreed.

The Changehost nerf was expected. The 2d6 for DD was already a thing in the rule, they just clarified it. Feel like the change for Battleshock and Saves was a bit much. Pink Horrors are easy enough to kill as it is and are a huge points sink if you go all in. Book is still solid though.

The last paragraph of the the Destiny Dice rule in the FAQ ("If you spend a Destiny Dice to replace a battleshock test, the result of that Destiny Dice is modified by the number of models slain from that unit as normal.") seems redundant if it doesn't effect Pink Horror regeneration.

I thought they bungled the verbiage initially so destiny dice battleshock tests weren't modified by models lost, and this errata just fixed that. IE - if you lost 10 models but used a 6 from the destiny pool, your battleshock was test was just a 6 and you lost no more models.

 EnTyme wrote:
The last paragraph of the the Destiny Dice rule in the FAQ ("If you spend a Destiny Dice to replace a battleshock test, the result of that Destiny Dice is modified by the number of models slain from that unit as normal.") seems redundant if it doesn't effect Pink Horror regeneration.

While as it's worded now it doesn't prevent pink regeneration if you use a 1, if you use other dice, like say a 2, you still add the causalities to it so you can cause pink horrors to flee now. Whereas before they didn't flee no matter what die roll you replaced as you never added the causalities to the die roll since it could not be modified further.

I believe this is also the intent as well, It means you can use your 1's in your DD pool for something, but you can't use your other lackluster numbers like 2's to auto-pass while also making it impossible for any models to flee.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
I thought they bungled the verbiage initially so destiny dice battleshock tests weren't modified by models lost, and this errata just fixed that. IE - if you lost 10 models but used a 6 from the destiny pool, your battleshock was test was just a 6 and you lost no more models.

Yes, exactly.

That intent was pretty clear. The Destiny Die just determines the die roll, not how it's effected by modifiers. Were people really not playing it that way? That doesn't even make sense.

Question: If I use SummonStarlight, a Seraphon Slann spell, does that force a Tzeentch player to use 2 DD for Battleshock if they intend to use them, since the spell forces Daemons to so battleshock on 2D6, take the highest for Chaos Daemons?

Will likely change with Battletome, but I have a Tournament this weekend where it will likely be an issue and I want to run it by knowledgeable people.

My first instinct is yes, as the Errata says if you have to roll 2D6, you have to use that many DD....

I would say "yes" as well. it seems when using Destiny Dice, you have to replace the entire roll, so if the ability requires you to roll 2d6, you would have to replace both.

As EnTyme said, if you use it they must spend two DD to replace the roll. And they will only be able to icon back d6 guys if both of the DD are 1s.

 EnTyme wrote:
That intent was pretty clear. The Destiny Die just determines the die roll, not how it's effected by modifiers. Were people really not playing it that way? That doesn't even make sense.

No, the intent was not clear with how the rules read for DD before the errata. The destiny dice rules said that the roll could not be modified further. Thus, you would not add the battleshock casualties as that is modifying the dice roll.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
As EnTyme said, if you use it they must spend two DD to replace the roll. And they will only be able to icon back d6 guys if both of the DD are 1s.

Incorrect. According to the Errata even if you used 2 1s it would not bring back any Pinks via Icon. Pink Horror Icons only work on unmodified rolls or 1 and the Errata now states clearly that Battleshock and Save rolls made with Destiny Dice count as modified rolls.

Still would count as a roll of 1+losses for Battleshock though.

BomBomHotdog wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
As EnTyme said, if you use it they must spend two DD to replace the roll. And they will only be able to icon back d6 guys if both of the DD are 1s.

Incorrect. According to the Errata even if you used 2 1s it would not bring back any Pinks via Icon. Pink Horror Icons only work on unmodified rolls or 1 and the Errata now states clearly that Battleshock and Save rolls made with Destiny Dice count as modified rolls.

Still would count as a roll of 1+losses for Battleshock though.

Where does it state that?

Errata:
...In addition, any rolls that have been replaced (with the exception of save rolls and battleshock tests) count as unmodified rolls and cannot be re-rolled or modified further...

Horrors Icon rule:
...If the unmodified roll for a battleshock test for this unit while it includes any Pink Horror Icon Bearers is 1, you can return D6 slain Horrors of Tzeentch models to this unit, and no models from this unit will flee in that battleshock phase...

Battleshock and Save rolls are now exempt and therefore a modified roll and thus no longer works. They even call out in the Designers Note the issue pertains to Pink Horrors. So if you want your Horrors back you need to roll. If you just want to save the unit use low Destiny Dice. If they wanted Rend and Losses/effects to work against Destiny Dice for Saves and Battleshock then they would of only put in the two last bits at the end of the Errata entry.

"If you spend a Destiny Dice to replace a battleshock test,
the result of that Destiny Dice is modified by the number
of models slain from that unit as normal.’"

So before the number is modified by the amount of models slain, what is it? The errata is worded ambiguously, it could mean:

"...any rolls that have been replaced count as unmodified and cannot be re-roll and cannot be modified further, with the exception of save rolls and battleshock checks for which only some of those things are true."

Or it could mean:

"...any rolls that have been replaced count as unmodified and cannot be re-rolled and cannot be modified further, with the exception of save rolls and battleshock checks for which none of those things are true."

Note that the latter (your interpretation) means that DD used on battleshock & saves could be re-rolled, which I feel is not the intent.

I think it's safe to say the FAQ didn't exactly clear the issue up. I'm going to email the rules team when I get a chance. If I happen to get a reply, I'll let everyone know. Maybe we'll at least get an answer in the next Big FAQ.

 EnTyme wrote:
I think it's safe to say the FAQ didn't exactly clear the issue up. I'm going to email the rules team when I get a chance. If I happen to get a reply, I'll let everyone know. Maybe we'll at least get an answer in the next Big FAQ.

its only unclear to people who are deliberately misreading the FAQ:

Tzeench errata wrote:
p69.... In addition, any rolls that have been replaced
(with the exception of save rolls and battleshock tests)
count as unmodified rolls and cannot be re-rolled or
modified further.

They deliberately say that everything except save rolls and battleshocks are unmodified. meaning Save rolls and Battleshocks are modified; which only really matters for the horror banners that require an unmodified 1.

Cwcriner, I laid out above how it could logically mean that or something else. Though to be clear you are arguing that DD battleshock and save rolls can be re-rolled, correct?