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I'm considering getting back into 40K after almost a decade absence and building a bike heavy White Scars list. I've wanted to do this for decades, but GW's SM bike models have always been...well...terrible.
Any advice anyone could offer? Where would such an army get high S shooting; or is even a lot of high S shooting necessary? Are flyers a big issue to deal with currently?
I've been gone from the game so long, and the editions have changed so much, that I don't really know where to begin in building a decent list. I want to have a good list idea decided before I start laying out money for models.
Thanks in advance....
Are flyers a big thing? Did you perhaps stop playing in 6th edition, same as me? Flyers only hit on 6's. IG flyers having undercosted last cannons and twin linked Vulcan gatling cannons hitting on 2+ 40 gaks S5. Jupp... Good old 6th.
No. Flyers is not a menace. In fact most things outside of SM is balanced.
SM is like playing on easy mode. They have turned the multimelta to 11. Attack bikes with is very good. You also have the new outrider bikes. Good on a charge. Regular bikes with chains words are good.
White scars can do very well. All bikes also get to shoot their bolters twice thanks to bolter discipline. Rapid fire 1 becomes 4 shots when within 12". And bikes comes with 2 of them so that is 8 shots per bike.
Question guys, anyone ever attempted to do a pure Phobos army? I am running raptors and initially I will have a tank army but id like to expand into a more Raptor/Raven Guard Successoresque type of army. Currently am leaning towards:
-Phobos Captain
-Phobos Lieutenant
-x3 Squads of x5 Infiltrators with Vox
-x1 Squad of x5 Incursors with Haywire Mine
-x3 Invictus Warsuits
-x3 Storm Speeder Thunderstrikes
-x3 Eliminators
*w/ x2 Las Fusils, x1 Sniper per Squad
However I am still very much a novice when it comes to Space Marines so any and all thoughts, comments and critiques in regards to running a pure phobos army is appreciated. Thanks for the feedback!
19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
Sooo... Are any of the flyers worth it? Taking them as transports seems like a waste. But as gunships seems quite descent.
My ork opponent usually takes 2 dakkajets. They hit on 4s and have 12 shots, S6 Ap1 D1 and they are super annoying and actually quite deadly for their cost of 150 points each. I am a bit jellus.
Niiai wrote: Sooo... Are any of the flyers worth it? Taking them as transports seems like a waste. But as gunships seems quite descent.
My ork opponent usually takes 2 dakkajets. They hit on 4s and have 12 shots, S6 Ap1 D1 and they are super annoying and actually quite deadly for their cost of 150 points each. I am a bit jellus.
DW sprinkle in Corvus Blackstars. That's the only SM faction I know of currently using flyers in the meta.
Aren't Iron Hands Fire Raptors considered fairly competitive too?
Tech-Priest with Ironstone keeps it durable even in hover mode, and IH means it is a full offensive threat for most of its life. Wrathful Machine Spirit strat + Blessing of the Machine God means it is hitting on 2's rerolling with buckets of shots.
Start with it in a corner, fly into optimal position and you have 2-3 turns of crazy shooting while it draws a ton of fire. Seems pretty good outside of Dark Angel Melta Attack Bike shenanigans, but those wreck everyone pretty indiscriminately.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/03 19:33:30
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted)
2021/03/23 20:06:45
Subject: Re:9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica
Are troops a big tax if you go above the bare minimum. I have my old 5th edition force and some new adittions.
However take the below list. Adding 2 groups of grey hunters and 2 razorback just eat up the points in the list.
Is it better to just take 3 minimum groups of infantry and keep it cheap? Perhaps take infiltraitors since they have anti deep strike utility? I have seen SW players grabbing minimum squads of blood claws (5 for 90) only to keep the points down.
What do you people think? I am shocked at the cost of 6 greuhunters and a razorback compared to the result you get out of it.
Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) [105 PL, 12CP, 1,997pts] ++
+ Configuration +
**Chapter Selection**: Space Wolves
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Detachment Command Cost
+ HQ +
Captain on Bike [6 PL, 120pts]: Hunter, Power fist, Storm shield, The Pelt of Balewolf, Warlord
Chapter Master [8 PL, 175pts]: Chapter Command: Chapter Master, Combi-melta, Jump Pack, The Armour of Russ, Thunder hammer
Librarian [7 PL, 140pts]: 5. Storm Caller, 6. Jaws of the World Wolf, Boltgun, Chapter Command: Chief Librarian, Force sword, Jump Pack, Psychic Mastery, Warlord
+ Troops +
Grey Hunters [13 PL, 180pts]: 4x Astartes Chainsword, Wolf Standard
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Power fist
. 3x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter w/Plasma Pistol: Plasma pistol
. Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt pistol, Plasma gun
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Combi-melta, Power fist
Grey Hunters [13 PL, 170pts]: 4x Astartes Chainsword, Wolf Standard
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Power fist
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt pistol, Flamer
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Combi-melta, Power fist
Space marine troops are about the best thing in the army. Intercessors (shoot twice stratagem) and very capable in melee in they have auras.
I wouldn't take more than the required for a detachment. They are hardly a tax though.
Razorbacks are complete gutter trash. Like so bad they can't even be considered. Min tac squad with a heavy bolter is 100 points and does a lot for a hard to remove unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/23 20:22:19
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
So I broke down and got some Heavy Intercessors on eBay. It will be awhile before I assemble them, but I wanted to know if there's been any consensus as to armaments. What do people find works for them? Especially if paired with a bunch of Assault Intercessors?
I haven't seen much conversation on the Firestrike Servos. What's the verdict on these? I might play my third game of 9th next week and don't really want to bring any duds but might proxy these.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I haven't seen much conversation on the Firestrike Servos. What's the verdict on these? I might play my third game of 9th next week and don't really want to bring any duds but might proxy these.
The las talon is just too expensive. The autocannon version is cheap enough to be considered but compare it to a unit of suppressors...Some advantages for each but I'd prefer the infantry and mobility of the suppressors. Flat 2 becoming damage 1 vs basically half the units in the game (exaggerating) really hurts them too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/02 17:31:08
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I haven't seen much conversation on the Firestrike Servos. What's the verdict on these? I might play my third game of 9th next week and don't really want to bring any duds but might proxy these.
The las talon is just too expensive. The autocannon version is cheap enough to be considered but compare it to a unit of suppressors...Some advantages for each but I'd prefer the infantry and mobility of the suppressors. Flat 2 becoming damage 1 vs basically half the units in the game (exaggerating) really hurts them too.
I would figure the Autocannon route would be more practical on that end due to cheapness.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I haven't seen much conversation on the Firestrike Servos. What's the verdict on these? I might play my third game of 9th next week and don't really want to bring any duds but might proxy these.
The las talon is just too expensive. The autocannon version is cheap enough to be considered but compare it to a unit of suppressors...Some advantages for each but I'd prefer the infantry and mobility of the suppressors. Flat 2 becoming damage 1 vs basically half the units in the game (exaggerating) really hurts them too.
Oof, you said you were exaggerating, but that's like massive hyperbole that makes your final point read like that extra bullet point in a list that shouldn't be there, but because it is, it invalidates the whole argument.
Question for the gallery - for those familiar with the inquisition you can take an Inquisitor without breaking doctrines. I am considering using an inquisitor in combination with Black Templars to:
1. Be heretical.
2.Buff a 20 man Crusader Squad. Like Guard Conscripts, the idea is to put a bunch of defensive buffs on a big squad and use it as a durable shield.
The Inquisitor can give one imperial squad a 5+ invulnerable save and make them auto pass morale tests. You then stick a Chaplain near them for the 5+ feel no pain litany. A neophyte can pop a smoke grenade for a -1 to hit as well.
So in summary you have a 20 man squad with a 5++, 5+++, -1 to hit and fearless for a reasonable cost (290pts for the Crusader squad) as the Chaplain is likely baked into your list anyways and an Inquisitor is 60pts and -1CP for 2 psychic casts/2 denies and LD bubble.
Thoughts?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/04 14:26:24
The squad will still be fairly slow and its primary means of projecting a threat bubble is its melee. As an opponent I'd just ignore it and go for the other elements of an army. That said, it would make an interesting 'while we stand we fight' or 'oaths of moment' target.
My line of thinking is that it acts primarily as a durable(ish) obsec squad that takes up space and can run into the midfield fairly fast due to BT strats (advance+charge, +1 to advance, re-roll advance moves, Devout push). This appears to be a common unit type in 9th edition.
You can build in some redundancy with the BT relic the Aurillian Shroud to give the squad a 4++ for one turn.
So how are Tacs holding up? I have a bunch of Primaris from Indomnitus plus just buying the units, but there is always a random box of Tacticals at my local store making me want to get some.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I haven't seen much conversation on the Firestrike Servos. What's the verdict on these? I might play my third game of 9th next week and don't really want to bring any duds but might proxy these.
The las talon is just too expensive. The autocannon version is cheap enough to be considered but compare it to a unit of suppressors...Some advantages for each but I'd prefer the infantry and mobility of the suppressors. Flat 2 becoming damage 1 vs basically half the units in the game (exaggerating) really hurts them too.
Oof, you said you were exaggerating, but that's like massive hyperbole that makes your final point read like that extra bullet point in a list that shouldn't be there, but because it is, it invalidates the whole argument.
I understand the point though, even with slight exaggeration. Death Guard make it a potentially bad option depending what you target. Regardless, higher RoF still helps against those units and it's still wounding on a 3+ at least.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I haven't seen much conversation on the Firestrike Servos. What's the verdict on these? I might play my third game of 9th next week and don't really want to bring any duds but might proxy these.
The las talon is just too expensive. The autocannon version is cheap enough to be considered but compare it to a unit of suppressors...Some advantages for each but I'd prefer the infantry and mobility of the suppressors. Flat 2 becoming damage 1 vs basically half the units in the game (exaggerating) really hurts them too.
Oof, you said you were exaggerating, but that's like massive hyperbole that makes your final point read like that extra bullet point in a list that shouldn't be there, but because it is, it invalidates the whole argument.
Basically what I was saying is you shouldn't put flat 2 damage anything in your list because lots of units out there treat flat 2 like it is 1 damage. Doing half the damage you are intended to is a real feels bad moment. On the other hand I still think grav cannons are great even without the 2 damage because they have 4 high APstr 5 shots no matter what.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
UncleJetMints wrote: So how are Tacs holding up? I have a bunch of Primaris from Indomnitus plus just buying the units, but there is always a random box of Tacticals at my local store making me want to get some.
5 man tacs are pretty good. Give them a heavy weapon and they hold back feild pretty good (I like missle launcher for this roll). For less than heavy intercessors. I would say heavy intercessors are a better buy than tacs though for that roll if you can find 50 more points.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/05 16:27:04
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Basically what I was saying is you shouldn't put flat 2 damage anything in your list because lots of units out there treat flat 2 like it is 1 damage. Doing half the damage you are intended to is a real feels bad moment.
-1 damage is becoming more widespread across time, but it's still not something you'll see in a high percentage of games.
That being said, it feels REALLY BAD when you run a brick of power fist guys into something that has it and you do flat 1 damage with the fists.
Basically what I was saying is you shouldn't put flat 2 damage anything in your list because lots of units out there treat flat 2 like it is 1 damage. Doing half the damage you are intended to is a real feels bad moment.
-1 damage is becoming more widespread across time, but it's still not something you'll see in a high percentage of games.
That being said, it feels REALLY BAD when you run a brick of power fist guys into something that has it and you do flat 1 damage with the fists.
Cheers,
V
It is exceptionally prevalent. DG it's army wide. Dark Angels can buff their best unit with it. All space marine dreads have it. If you are playing competitive. There is a good chance you are gonna run into a situation that your flat 2 weapon is essentially useless. It costs you nothing to avoid the profile all together. Choose another weapon. You can't go wrong with mass 1 damage shots. That literally always works. The d3+3 profile or d6+2 are also pretty dang reliable.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Basically what I was saying is you shouldn't put flat 2 damage anything in your list because lots of units out there treat flat 2 like it is 1 damage. Doing half the damage you are intended to is a real feels bad moment.
-1 damage is becoming more widespread across time, but it's still not something you'll see in a high percentage of games.
That being said, it feels REALLY BAD when you run a brick of power fist guys into something that has it and you do flat 1 damage with the fists.
Cheers,
V
It is exceptionally prevalent. DG it's army wide. Dark Angels can buff their best unit with it. All space marine dreads have it. If you are playing competitive. There is a good chance you are gonna run into a situation that your flat 2 weapon is essentially useless. It costs you nothing to avoid the profile all together. Choose another weapon. You can't go wrong with mass 1 damage shots. That literally always works. The d3+3 profile or d6+2 are also pretty dang reliable.
Ah, so this is why most people go for Auto Bolt Rifles on their Intercessors and, I assume, Hellstorm Bolt Rifles on Heavy Intercessors: less AP and shorter range, but greater volume of fire of D1 rounds.
Basically what I was saying is you shouldn't put flat 2 damage anything in your list because lots of units out there treat flat 2 like it is 1 damage. Doing half the damage you are intended to is a real feels bad moment.
-1 damage is becoming more widespread across time, but it's still not something you'll see in a high percentage of games.
That being said, it feels REALLY BAD when you run a brick of power fist guys into something that has it and you do flat 1 damage with the fists.
Cheers,
V
It is exceptionally prevalent. DG it's army wide. Dark Angels can buff their best unit with it. All space marine dreads have it. If you are playing competitive. There is a good chance you are gonna run into a situation that your flat 2 weapon is essentially useless. It costs you nothing to avoid the profile all together. Choose another weapon. You can't go wrong with mass 1 damage shots. That literally always works. The d3+3 profile or d6+2 are also pretty dang reliable.
Ah, so this is why most people go for Auto Bolt Rifles on their Intercessors and, I assume, Hellstorm Bolt Rifles on Heavy Intercessors: less AP and shorter range, but greater volume of fire of D1 rounds.
On top of that and the AP-1 being a fantastic bonus for a turn, it does synergize well with White Scars, which are a popular Chapter.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Basically what I was saying is you shouldn't put flat 2 damage anything in your list because lots of units out there treat flat 2 like it is 1 damage. Doing half the damage you are intended to is a real feels bad moment.
-1 damage is becoming more widespread across time, but it's still not something you'll see in a high percentage of games.
That being said, it feels REALLY BAD when you run a brick of power fist guys into something that has it and you do flat 1 damage with the fists.
Cheers,
V
It is exceptionally prevalent. DG it's army wide. Dark Angels can buff their best unit with it. All space marine dreads have it. If you are playing competitive. There is a good chance you are gonna run into a situation that your flat 2 weapon is essentially useless. It costs you nothing to avoid the profile all together. Choose another weapon. You can't go wrong with mass 1 damage shots. That literally always works. The d3+3 profile or d6+2 are also pretty dang reliable.
Ah, so this is why most people go for Auto Bolt Rifles on their Intercessors and, I assume, Hellstorm Bolt Rifles on Heavy Intercessors: less AP and shorter range, but greater volume of fire of D1 rounds.
Absolutely. ABR intercessors are legit nasty. 210 points gets you 60 str 4 ap-1 shots and 4 frag grenade hits too. Put that in an aura and you probably just wiped 30 pox walkers.
Like I said the only flat 2 damage weapon I use right now is gravcannons. Because we really don't have another high volume high AP option other than plasma (hellblasters/inceptros) those units are also good but I really prefer the grav dev unit to them because of the ablative wounds and the 30" range for max shots. Also not a fan of killing my own units.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Are the increase to WS/BS worth upgrading a Dread to Venerable? Unyielding Ancient and Flesh is weak are redundant, so you're paying just for the increased reliability in combat.
Are the increase to WS/BS worth upgrading a Dread to Venerable? Unyielding Ancient and Flesh is weak are redundant, so you're paying just for the increased reliability in combat.
Probably still worth it. However if I was gonna put the points into a dreadt I would take a relic contemptor with 2 MM or 2 Heavy Plasma Cannons - the 5++ is nice.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Are the increase to WS/BS worth upgrading a Dread to Venerable? Unyielding Ancient and Flesh is weak are redundant, so you're paying just for the increased reliability in combat.
Probably still worth it. However if I was gonna put the points into a dreadt I would take a relic contemptor with 2 MM or 2 Heavy Plasma Cannons - the 5++ is nice.
I was leaning towards yes too.
I have no plans on proxying a Relic Dread, and already have a trio of the old chassis
19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted) 
