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 SHUPPET wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
All of the above mentioned take a couple of turns killing a knight. And tyranids do not have the option for Las cans in every squad.

We can focus fire down a Knight in 1 turn, we have stratagems for MW's +1D, etc... Hiveguard or Exocrine shooting twice is pretty powerful, Shockguard shooting twice could easily kill a knight alone. If I remember its average of 12 shots, 8 get through 4 damage from those 8 and 4 MW's if you dont roll any 6's, so 8-9 wounds (going off memory and really fast math). So you could do 16-18 wounds with just 1 unit, sure its la 230pts unit and you used 2CP, but its well worth it to kill a 400pts+ unit lol, well besides the Knight Castellan, but at least 1 unit can take away 50-75pts of its wounds (they will most likely use the +1save stratagem)

Or a OOE/Stone Crusher Fex lol.

Exocrine can't shoot twice, also he may as well be Warriors firing Deathspitters against a unit with T8 and 4+ invul.

double shooting shock guard should do 21 wounds i think

double shooting impaler guard does just 8


you could combine enough things and maybe do it i guess

If it doesnt move it can. Or am i mistaking?

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
All of the above mentioned take a couple of turns killing a knight. And tyranids do not have the option for Las cans in every squad.

We can focus fire down a Knight in 1 turn, we have stratagems for MW's +1D, etc... Hiveguard or Exocrine shooting twice is pretty powerful, Shockguard shooting twice could easily kill a knight alone. If I remember its average of 12 shots, 8 get through 4 damage from those 8 and 4 MW's if you dont roll any 6's, so 8-9 wounds (going off memory and really fast math). So you could do 16-18 wounds with just 1 unit, sure its la 230pts unit and you used 2CP, but its well worth it to kill a 400pts+ unit lol, well besides the Knight Castellan, but at least 1 unit can take away 50-75pts of its wounds (they will most likely use the +1save stratagem)

Or a OOE/Stone Crusher Fex lol.

Exocrine can't shoot twice, also he may as well be Warriors firing Deathspitters against a unit with T8 and 4+ invul.

double shooting shock guard should do 21 wounds i think

double shooting impaler guard does just 8


you could combine enough things and maybe do it i guess

If it doesnt move it can. Or am i mistaking?

Oh I thought we meant Double Shoot strat. Their regular "doubleshoot" is more like a regular shoot anyway, because they pay more than their worth for the ability to do so. On the move it's more like a 1/2, or even 1/3 shoot when factoring in the B.S. penalty.

The Exocrine using his natural double shooting, pay's 210 pts or whatever to deal 1.3 wounds to a Knight, for example.

A Hive Tyrant with HVC and RC does 9.3 damage against a regular 5++ Knight. I did not consider the Yrmgarl Factor or Toxin Sacs.
The problem is that he will be stomped to death immediately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
With Toxin Sacs and Ymgarl Factor (using +1 A) he does 11.5 damage.

Only Toxin Sacs does 10.2


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But a Trygon with Ymgarl Factor (+1 S) does already 8.7 damage in melee.

 Astmeister wrote:
A Hive Tyrant with HVC and RC does 9.8 damage against a regular 5++ Knight. I did not consider the Yrmgarl Factor or Toxin Sacs.
The problem is that he will be stomped to death immediately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
With Toxin Sacs and Ymgarl Factor (using +1 A) he does 12.3 damage.

A good opponent will probably spend a CP to take the 4++ relic I think. However these things combined with enough sources of damage and they may not get a chance to swing back and kill

The 4++ relic is only against shooting and thus has a minimal impact on the Tyrant though.

Against tyrant thus 5++ h2h relic + strategem would be more of effect probably. Of course that eats relic from him which depending on what knight we are talking about could be big bummer for him.

The GSC thread's a little dead about this, so anyone here have any tactical speculations about the GSC Abominant and Aberrants preview ( https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/16/16th-aug-tooth-and-claw-new-monstrosities-for-the-genestealer-cultsgw-homepage-post-3/ ) - from what you've seen of the preview and know of Aberrants, any potential usage in your Tyranid armies and strategies?

Okfortyk wrote:
The GSC thread's a little dead about this, so anyone here have any tactical speculations about the GSC Abominant and Aberrants preview ( https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/16/16th-aug-tooth-and-claw-new-monstrosities-for-the-genestealer-cultsgw-homepage-post-3/ ) - from what you've seen of the preview and know of Aberrants, any potential usage in your Tyranid armies and strategies?

Kinda hard to find a niche for them in a Tyranids list imo. High strength melee infantry isn’t really covered by anything Tyranids have, but what are they going after that Genestealers, Warriors, or Tyrant Guard couldn’t? Not to mention Carnifexes, Hive Tyrants, Toxicrenes, or Trygons?

Kinda hard to find a niche for them in a Tyranids list imo. High strength melee infantry isn’t really covered by anything Tyranids have, but what are they going after that Genestealers, Warriors, or Tyrant Guard couldn’t? Not to mention Carnifexes, Hive Tyrants, Toxicrenes, or Trygons?

I've heard some chatter that Tyranids, broadly, are having trouble taking down IK (is that the consensus?). Not saying I'd necessarily recommend Abominant + Aberrants in all cases, but depending on what strats, etc., come GSC's way, could be viable.

Okfortyk wrote:

Kinda hard to find a niche for them in a Tyranids list imo. High strength melee infantry isn’t really covered by anything Tyranids have, but what are they going after that Genestealers, Warriors, or Tyrant Guard couldn’t? Not to mention Carnifexes, Hive Tyrants, Toxicrenes, or Trygons?

I've heard some chatter that Tyranids, broadly, are having trouble taking down IK (is that the consensus?). Not saying I'd necessarily recommend Abominant + Aberrants in all cases, but depending on what strats, etc., come GSC's way, could be viable.

We’re still at least a couple months out for that codex, but if Knights are the target wouldn’t you take a minimal cult detachment for an IG detachment with a Shadowsword? Depending on points of course.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Okfortyk wrote:

Kinda hard to find a niche for them in a Tyranids list imo. High strength melee infantry isn’t really covered by anything Tyranids have, but what are they going after that Genestealers, Warriors, or Tyrant Guard couldn’t? Not to mention Carnifexes, Hive Tyrants, Toxicrenes, or Trygons?

I've heard some chatter that Tyranids, broadly, are having trouble taking down IK (is that the consensus?). Not saying I'd necessarily recommend Abominant + Aberrants in all cases, but depending on what strats, etc., come GSC's way, could be viable.

We’re still at least a couple months out for that codex, but if Knights are the target wouldn’t you take a minimal cult detachment for an IG detachment with a Shadowsword? Depending on points of course.

Shadowswords are laughably terrible against Knights, because the Castellan will pick it up in one shot. In return, if the shadowsword goes first, it's probably not dropping a 3++ knight. But, if you struggle against Knights the GSC psychic powers make a world of difference.

Okfortyk wrote:

Kinda hard to find a niche for them in a Tyranids list imo. High strength melee infantry isn’t really covered by anything Tyranids have, but what are they going after that Genestealers, Warriors, or Tyrant Guard couldn’t? Not to mention Carnifexes, Hive Tyrants, Toxicrenes, or Trygons?

I've heard some chatter that Tyranids, broadly, are having trouble taking down IK (is that the consensus?). Not saying I'd necessarily recommend Abominant + Aberrants in all cases, but depending on what strats, etc., come GSC's way, could be viable.

Well GSC Psychic powers are so good that the infantry is easy to take, if you have the models, some big bois with Hammers, or Drills can slam a IK hard, and it's extra fun if you Mind Controll it (the Knight) into gibbing one of his units first,

For "pure" Tyranids, I'd recommend a Trygon or two with Adrenals. They could even bring in some infantry to assist. Just toss in extra wounds from Mortals, and shooting and you have a fair chance to tear it down.

 jifel wrote:

Shadowswords are laughably terrible against Knights, because the Castellan will pick it up in one shot. In return, if the shadowsword goes first, it's probably not dropping a 3++ knight. But, if you struggle against Knights the GSC psychic powers make a world of difference.

Yeah this is issue with shadowsword idea. If you run up against knights with castellan that thing can let shadowsword shoot you first and it will STILL kill shadowsword first. Castellan is like designed against shadowsword and the kind. Well at least in 2k and lower games. In big games castellans start to lose their relative strength.

tneva82 wrote:

 jifel wrote:

Shadowswords are laughably terrible against Knights, because the Castellan will pick it up in one shot. In return, if the shadowsword goes first, it's probably not dropping a 3++ knight. But, if you struggle against Knights the GSC psychic powers make a world of difference.

Yeah this is issue with shadowsword idea. If you run up against knights with castellan that thing can let shadowsword shoot you first and it will STILL kill shadowsword first. Castellan is like designed against shadowsword and the kind. Well at least in 2k and lower games. In big games castellans start to lose their relative strength.

Appreciate the insight.

 Astmeister wrote:
The 4++ relic is only against shooting and thus has a minimal impact on the Tyrant though.

Sanctuary is a 5++ vs assault relic and you can rotate ion shields in the fight phase for 4++

If you take sanctuary. But i assume most castellans will take ion bulwark and the 2+ save.

 Astmeister wrote:
If you take sanctuary. But i assume most castellans will take ion bulwark and the 2+ save.

If you see CC threats to your Knights... you spend the 1 CP and take the Sanctuary. It's possible your opponent doesn't see them, and doesn't take it, but I think that's relying on him making a mistake, and I think good Knight players at this point know when to take what they need

I thought you have to decide for relics while army list building and not right before the game.

Depends on who is running the event. GW events ask you to choose them during list creation.

Stratagems can be used whenever, so you can take Sanctuary by using the CP for a Relic strat

Here warlord traits, relics etc are written pre tournament as default but can be changed before game. Thus if he sees good h2h threat he could change 2+ or cawl's wrath to santuary

In ITC I think your Relic is static, but I know you can use your Bounty stratagem at the start of the game similar to other pre-game strats, and grab whichever relic you like in addition, thanks to stratagem.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Stratagems can be used whenever, so you can take Sanctuary by using the CP for a Relic strat

No, it is specified in the rules packet (canon 40K format).

Any stratagem that is used "Before the game" must be signed on the list. They call the relic stratagem speficically as an example of this.

I have a rule question.

Tactical Reserves states that : "Finally, any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed."

What about a Mawloc that burrows? from a RAW pov, the Mawloc already arrived on the battlefied, its only it decided to leave it.

I would say same logic applies as with say da jump t1. They were deployed so irrelevant they leave and enter again(despite beta rule preventing arriving on t1 outside own dz. But as you were already there it's enough)

Okfortyk wrote:
The GSC thread's a little dead about this, so anyone here have any tactical speculations about the GSC Abominant and Aberrants preview ( https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/16/16th-aug-tooth-and-claw-new-monstrosities-for-the-genestealer-cultsgw-homepage-post-3/ ) - from what you've seen of the preview and know of Aberrants, any potential usage in your Tyranid armies and strategies?

I think it isn't so much dead as still waiting for more information to drop. The Abominant looks very interesting from what has been previewed so far, but without knowing points and the rest of their statline it is hard to do much more than theorycraft.

Aberrants themselves got a huge boost from the power pick change. I think they are potentially going to be a good alternative to buzzsaw Acolytes for a flexible armor cracking squad compared to their current role of pure armor cracking. The biggest drawback Aberrants had before was that they were inept dealing with infantry tarpits attempting to keep them from their "real" targets, requiring that they be held back until a path could be cleared for them. Now Power Picks offer both ablative bodies for the Hammer-rants and chaff clearing potential. Also, they are a much more appealing target for Might From Beyond, as they gain effectively 2 extra attacks instead of 1.

For Tyranids, I think Acolytes might still be better as a general melee squad since they can get more ablative bodies between the heavy weaponry and are troops for scoring and unlocking command points via battalions. If you want a minimal investment into GSC though, Aberrants require less support to do their work (don't need Might from Beyond or Icon of Cult Ascendant to wound T8 targets on a 3+) and are probably going to be more cost efficient in monetary terms (3 of each weapon in the kit compared to 1 of each heavy for Acolytes).

As one last caveat, I think the Abominant is going to be a big factor in how popular Aberrants end up as allies. Aberrants are fairly unique within the GSC army as "heavy infantry" while both allies have similar units of their own (Ogryn for AM, Guards and Warriors for Tyranids). If the Abominant turns out highly competitive I can see random squads finding their way into allied lists that otherwise might not consider them to take advantage of the Chosen One ability.

Spoletta wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Stratagems can be used whenever, so you can take Sanctuary by using the CP for a Relic strat

No, it is specified in the rules packet (canon 40K format).

Any stratagem that is used "Before the game" must be signed on the list. They call the relic stratagem speficically as an example of this.

Hey Spoletta, I can't find it, and it clashes with what the FLG guys who helped write it were saying a week or two ago on podcast - would you mind linking me, because if you're right I'm going to email them for clarity.

My bad, it was changed and i didn't notice it.

In the 2017/2018 version it was like i said https://s20889.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/40K8_Grand_Tournament_Rules_Pack_FINAL.pdf

In this year's version it was modified https://s20889.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/40K8_Grand_Tournament_Rules_Pack_2018_19_1.1.pdf

Page 4 for both documents.

Indeed, now you are free to change relics every game.

Spoletta wrote:
My bad, it was changed and i didn't notice it.

In the 2017/2018 version it was like i said https://s20889.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/40K8_Grand_Tournament_Rules_Pack_FINAL.pdf

In this year's version it was modified https://s20889.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/40K8_Grand_Tournament_Rules_Pack_2018_19_1.1.pdf

Page 4 for both documents.

Indeed, now you are free to change relics every game.

No doubt, that clears up the confusion. So back to the topic, seems we can count on a good Knight player having 4++ in CC (at least in the case of solo Knights or ones that rush up field).

At least they don't have the 2+ save in this case.