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I want to start a chain of controversial opinions about 40K. Anything about it. Game designers, models, gameplay, rules, etc. Please post only 1 comment per time, and number it in sequence. Then the next posters can decline to comment or agree/disagree, then post their own opinion. Should make for some interesting debates. But let's keep it civil.

1. The Ork Nob squad, properly fitted out for wound allocation, can kill ANY other model/squad in the entire game. Armageddon not included.

Yes. Yes it can.

Controversy?

1. Daemons are more competitive than people give them credit for. But they can be screwed over by a few select pieces of wargear - Null Zone, Jammers, most of the GK codex etc.

2. The game is too often decided before it begins by army list selection.

3. People haven't noticed it's 5th edition yet, and very few tables have LoS blocking terrain.

4. Dawn of War is a terrible deployment type.

5. The reason people think TH/SS terminators are so good is because they live and die on the luck of the rolls. There aren't enough bodies, and their fate decided by too few rolls, so they are very susceptible to non-average dice rolling. No one remembers the time they killed them quickly - people only ever remember the time nothing stopped them and they hammernated their entire army.

6. Mephiston is not very good.

Thunderfire is possibly the best gun in the game.

GCMandrake wrote:1. Daemons are more competitive than people give them credit for. But they can be screwed over by a few select pieces of wargear - Null Zone, Jammers, most of the GK codex etc.

Yes, Daemons are the only army to have tabled my orks. Damnit...

2. The game is too often decided before it begins by army list selection.

Totally. Taking battle wagons with deff rolls against Tyranids is dumb.

3. People haven't noticed it's 5th edition yet, and very few tables have LoS blocking terrain.

I do! Every time I get the chance to set up terrain.

4. Dawn of War is a terrible deployment type.

A truer statement was never made.

5. The reason people think TH/SS terminators are so good is because they live and die on the luck of the rolls. There aren't enough bodies, and their fate decided by too few rolls, so they are very susceptible to non-average dice rolling. No one remembers the time they killed them quickly - people only ever remember the time nothing stopped them and they hammernated their entire army.

Hammernated. I like it!

6. Mephiston is not very good.

Don't know, haven't played against him.

As for my controversial opinion, I've stated it before and here it comes again.

#1: I want a 15MM Warhammer 40,000 game! It would be a hybrid of the current rules and the epic rules. There would be more flavor, IE: wargear, all the specific units and equipment options from the codexes (Yes, Codexes, get over it...) but would have no to-wound rolls, and would use the epic blast points system. Troops would not be based in bunches, rather their would be oval-shaped movement trays, sort of like that big oval GW base but with a lip around it to keep models from sliding off. The current 30MM rules would be replaced with something more detailed and skirmishy. Still unit-based, but including the sort of stuff that you see in RPG's. Flame on...

I would post some of my "controversial opinions" here, but the thread would degenerate into *real* flames then.

How about they release the new Demiurg as an army with rules like this.

When they are used against Marine armies their equipment is disabled by Ion tech. So no power armour save or power weapons work, they strike last in combat and are always wounded on a 2+ and the Demiurg have prefered enemy agaisnt them. Also deepstriking units mishap when deploying near them

Not fair you say?
It's fine against Daemons ?

Necrons are the worst army at the moment and cannot compete at all.

Dashofpepper wrote:I would post some of my "controversial opinions" here, but the thread would degenerate into *real* flames then.

All the more reason to post them!

My controversial opinion is that most of these controversial opinions are really just statements of fact.

Jaon wrote:Necrons are the worst army at the moment and cannot compete at all.

I know an IG player who i creamed with my Crons that would have loved that to be true

Turn 1: i deploy my gunline of warriors and immortals, he deploys his gunline of flashlights and tanks. We shoot the heck out of each other and do a goodly amount of killing,
Turn 2: Destroyers destroy, and all that is dead starts getting back up, the IG stay dead, but tanks start putting a hurting on non-orbed troops.
Turn 3: Monolith deepstrikes in the middle of his infantry and his tanks, Flux arc kills many IG, Immortals teleport behind enemy lines with a Lord
Turn 4: most of IG infantry is desvistated, what vehicles remain are getting glanced to death, Crons still continue to get back up half the time.



Crons dont need an update, 5th edition is ALL armor, ALL crons can hurt armor. WBB indeed; Necrons also have an ARMY WIDE Feel No Pain that, with two well-placed HQs, can be taken regardless of damage type (AP1, Power Swd. etc), boast a Lance/melta immune AV 14 vehicle. Oh and because of WBB, they can double-tap your assault units after they consolidate.

Heck, i think everything has at least a few insane things in their 'Dex that are crazy. 40K is possibly the least balanced game i have ever played, i still love it though. :p

Spacemarines: we shall not be swept from the board, or escorted off of it. Also; our "X" are better than yours (any buffed unit in a SM Chapter thats different from ultrasmurffs)
Seriously through, GW loves SM so much that if another army becomes more awesome, a new SW Dex will hit the shelves soon after

IG: We hid 3 Russ Demoliters right next to your whole army, and you didnt notice until turn 3. CREEED

Orkz: Ghrazzgul loves (his +2 invuln save) giving his army a 12" assault, furious charge, and fearless. And i dont care of they are all BS2, 30 STR 7 shots are always going to hurt.

Dark Eldar: 12" assault? we got a 21-27" assault ON TURN ONE. talk about OP. Hey we got jealous of Necron's army wide Feel no Pain, so we got a system that gives us that and Army wide Furious Charge, and Army wide Fearless too. We also have the only unit in game that can do 12 Powerweapon Swings at initiative 9, oh and you get one less swing against her. Hey, i can also take a HQ that is IMMUNE to Psykers! and redeploys up to 3 of my already insanely mobile army! Also: space pimp always seizes on a 4+

Tau: yeah we suck, but we still have a Hvy Supt slot that can fire 3(!) STR 10 AP 1 TL shots at 4 feet away after moving!

sharkticon wrote:My controversial opinion is that most of these controversial opinions are really just statements of fact.

Jaon wrote:Necrons are the worst army at the moment and cannot compete at all.

Please. In most of my games, my Necrons lose 1-3 models throughout the whole game, and 2/3 of the models in the army *never join the fight* - and would sit permanently in reserve until the end of the game if they could.

My controversial opinions:

1. My Necrons can wtfpwn anyone in this thread.

2. Dark Eldar is the most powerful codex in 40k.

3. Space Wolves are treacherous to the Imperium and Fenris should be virus-bombed, and the entire legion's history be expunged from Imperial Records.

4. I'm the best 40k player in the world. Nyah nyah myah.

There is no such thing as tactics. Just writing a list, deploying, and rolling dice.

The sad thing is, I agree with most of the points by all posters made so far.

Frazzled wrote:The sad thing is, I agree with most of the points by all posters made so far.

Likewise, not terribly controversial.

Here's my controversial opinion:

The Emperor eventually intended to be a god, and laid the seeds of that during the Great Crusade in how he appeared and how he had his Primarchs appear. Horus only sped up his ascension to religious godhood, a forced change in plans because of his injuries.

Melissia wrote:Here's my controversial opinion:

The Emperor eventually intended to be a god, and laid the seeds of that during the Great Crusade in how he appeared and how he had his Primarchs appear. Horus only sped up his ascension to religious godhood, a forced change in plans because of his injuries.

It does seem like he was planning it all along...

PraetorDave wrote:There is no such thing as tactics. Just writing a list, deploying, and rolling dice.

Can I have your address? I want to send you a package in the mail. When it arrives, don't shake it and ignore the ticking...

*rabble*

To a certain extent, the player determines victory more than the list.

AresX8 wrote:To a certain extent, the player determines victory more than the list.

That's not only prefaced with a disclaimer to make it non-controversial, but then you said something non-controversial anyway.

To a certain extent, yellow is not green.

*laughing*

Luck is far more of a factor in determining who wins a game than tactics, strategy, army-list, generalship and play-style combined.

L. Wrex

luck and skill mean little when you have a few loaded dice. . .

Fine, I'll play.



The Grey Knights fluff isn't really that bad.

Mat Ward is a good Codex writer.

GW cares about its customers.

Tau are competitive.

Grey Hunters are not better than Tactical Marines.

The Star Child is real.

Ok!

1. The starchild/Illuminati/ Sensei Fluff is not gone from 40k. The -I- Novels might have been discredited, but those things are far older than those novels. Until GW speceificlly states that: "There is no starchild, there is no illuminati and there are no Sesnei!" Than this background material is alive and well.

2. Matt Ward needs to write the next Chaos Codex so he can kick start the original traitor legions back into prominence. (not joking)

An army with two wounds each has a lot going for it.

Siren is not beardy.

Virus bombs are overcosted.

IG speeders suck.

The Space Wolves turned to Chaos during the Heresy.

Few codices have as many overcosted units and options as IG.

WAAC is one of, if not the best way to play the game.

Claiming your list is "fluffy" or "casual" is no more than an excuse to take bad units or be a crutch for poor play.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Can I have your address? I want to send you a package in the mail. When it arrives, don't shake it and ignore the ticking...

*rabble*

The pot calling the kettle black?



Wamachine is a better tactical game than 40k.

I love killpoints

That Jervis Johnson wrote a good DA book (before FAQ)

I love Gav's work on codex CSM

The IG army is very balanced

Marines do not have enough love from the game designers

Comp should be in more tournaments

Note: for all those who have read this, don't take this thread seriously.

My opinion is that DoP will never be half as good as he already thinks he is...