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Hey all,

So I know the standard gear for Warriors, with MoK and Halberds (though is that usually with or without shields?), or MoT and shields.

Wondering about the effectiveness of alternatives?

Such as, MoT, w/shield and Halberd.
I know they are going to cost more than the usual MoT Warriors, but not much, and the second rank will all get the str bonus when they fight, so it seems like it could be worthwhile.
They MoK and Halberds have more synergy for that first rank, by a lot, but thinking Tzeentch might be a good option too.

Anyone have other interesting/underrated builds?

I have MoK and Dual Hand Weapons, but I bought them used. Not sure how effective they are.

Tzeentch halberd-warriors will be exactly what you'd expect-- tougher and less choppy.

The extra 15-18pts on shields is probably worth it; losing a few models to shooting can drastically cut down on your kill-output.

@Happygrunt
With dual hand weapons, your front rank gets scary, but your second rank attacks don't gain any benefit.

With Halberds, they do, and you have room for shields too.


@Warpsolution
I guess I'm more wondering if people think its worth it. It's 10 pts less to make a unit with that, vs MoK Halberds, and your giving up one attack/front ranker (so what, 6 or so) in exchange for a 5+ parry or 6+ ward save. Seems like you make the unit a LOT more durable.

Oh and you give up Fearless... but WoC have pretty decent Ld, and the Will of Chaos (the reroll of a failed panic test), so it seems not to give up much.

AND your gaining more control over your charges.

So is that a yes to mot halberd warriors or no?
Mok halberd shield?
whats the verdict?

You can't ever use your shields with your halberds, which you must use if you have them, so you won't ever get the parry. The +1 pt for shields just makes you more durable against shooting (which I think is worth it.)

I think MoT halberds isn't bad at all. Not quite as focused as MoK, but if you lose combat once you don't lose the effect of that mark, so that's cool. I think they have a place if you have enough units of warriors, though I probably would run MoK if I only had 1-2 units of warriors. Plus, if you have a Slaaneshi sorc you can drop Frenzy on your Tizz warriors to have both worlds (and a few piddly Str3 hits against you.)

Ok for my 3k there are 3 blocks of mot shield warriors and a block of mok halber guys to really lay the hurt on.

Yea, unless you really want to stick with the Tizz theme (which is cool, obviously) you can probably afford to have a unit of halberds who worst case run into stupid fights. Plenty of anvil units there, so your hammers can be a bit more focused on fighty.

Agreed.

Assuming your Khornate warriors don't get shot by S7 or higher shooting attacks, you'll be saving 16% more of your dudes. Ten shields costs 10pts, and save 1.6 guys, which are worth a lot more. Even considering that it's only against shooting, it seems worth it to me.

Most people are going to want their units focused one way or the other, but if you had several units like that, they could work together to achieve the same effect. It'll just be harder for you to pull off, but harder for your opponent to stop.

I agree, buy shields every time. Even if they can't be used in combat. Warriors are expensive, and this is protecting your investment.

I think the best two load are:

1.) MOT, Hand Weapon, Shield. These guys are so resilant. That 5 up ward drives people crazy. You can combine the ward save with things like the blasted standard or iron curse icon to make them resilant to shooting.

2.) MOK, Halberds, Shield. Not as hardy as the others, but they hit so hard. They kill just about anything. A flaming bannner makes this unit the answer to riddles like the abom or hydra. Additional hand weapon is better than the halberd in some situations, like killing swathes of skaven slaves, but I think the haldberds are more multipurpose.

I run a nice size block of both of these in my army and they never disappoint.

Yeah I think in the end a few small rules I didn't notice settled it for me.

For example I knew Frenzy meant you couldn't ever use the ward save from shields in combat, but I didn't really realize you couldn't benefit at all from them with a Halberd (2h wpn).

With MoT, part of the reason it is so good right now is it makes that parry save a 5+, but take away that parry save and your just paying 20pts for the unit to get a 6+ ward save. By all means good, but not nearly AS good.

I think I'm gonna stick to a MoK theme and go standard Halberd boys. I think Halberds might have a place in a MoT Warrior unit, and could make a mono-themed list a lot more interesting, but I know where I'm gonna settle

Blackclaw wrote: I didn't really realize you couldn't benefit at all from them with a Halberd (2h wpn).

Don't forget you can still use those shields against shooting. 3+ Save is so much nicer than 4+ against missiles and war machines.

Though you only benefit from them versus shooting.

lol right sorry (I could try to blame the flu, but that gives me too much credit lol)

Thought with Warmachines, in most cases wouldn't the 3+ save be mostly reduced down to nothing? Or at least close to it?

The 3+ is significant against: normal stonethrowers, trebs, mortars, rocket batteries, upgraded grudgethrowers, hell cannon, scrap launcher...

A lot of the big template shots cap out with a maximum strength 5 splash. I think the difference between a 5+ save and a 6+ save is not insignificant there...

It is also handy vs. a variety of magic missile spells, as well as mumble mumble. Warriors being in fairly small, points dense units make fairly decent targets for things like Fireballs, Flickering Fire of Tizz, and just about every other d6 StrX auto hits. Essentially no one wants to be in melee with the horrible, murderous bastards, so you can expect every other phase to be dedicated to dealing with them

Edit: Derp, Amber Spear DOES ignore armor like a bolt thrower... some manner of psuedo bolt thrower that penetrates ranks doesn't ignore armor though.

Red_Zeke wrote: 5+ save and a 6+ save is not insignificant there...

What he said. You are exactly twice as likely to make a 5+ than a 6+.

Yeah 1pt/guy is def worth getting that extra save vs warmachines, alone lol

The most killy warrior unit i have made is halberds with mark of khorne.

6 wide, 3 or 4 deep with flaming banner, not much stands up to it. I even put my bsb in there sometimes for even more killing

TCWarRoom wrote:The most killy warrior unit i have made is halberds with mark of khorne.

6 wide, 3 or 4 deep with flaming banner, not much stands up to it. I even put my bsb in there sometimes for even more killing

I built one of these units too. I call it the blender, and it makes me happy in my heart. With flaming banner, they are the answer to any "question" your opponent may ask you.

Remember you can always use the banner of rage on a Tzeench unit. I do that in my tzeench themed lists. Gives the unit some durability while retaining the killing power of a khorne unit.

Don't frenzied troops loose the shield parry? a 5+ save is to amazing! especially if you and Tzeetch have a relationship like ours.

I love you bird man, good lookin' out.

You lose parry with Frenzy yes, but you can take Tizz warriors with Halberds and Frenzy Banner to get the extra attacks (that can't be lost) and still have a 6+ ward, which is nice enough.

Wehrkind wrote:You lose parry with Frenzy yes, but you can take Tizz warriors with Halberds and Frenzy Banner to get the extra attacks (that can't be lost) and still have a 6+ ward, which is nice enough.

50% less effective makes a huge difference. if you want to go choppy, go all the way choppy. And if you want to put a Wizard in with your khorne flakes, there is no restriction against this.

The exception to this would be chosen, chosen with the mark of tzch and that banner would be nasty.

I don't think you need to go all-out one way or the other. Tzeentch warriors with Frenzy and Halberds save 16% less guys than their sword-and-board kin, but they have an extra attack and an extra S.

They're slightly better at fighting than Khornate Warriors (since Frenzy can't be lost), and have a Ward save. Not bad at all.
What's the cost of the MoT+Rage Banner versus the MoK?

The rage banner with MoT is 55 vs MoK 30. I only do it for the theme, its cheaper to go with khorne and the 6+ ward is not significantly more effective.

As far as not losing frenzy goes Ive always felt that if your frenzied troops are losing combat you did something wrong, and they will probably continue to lose even if they're still frenzied.

Glimpse The Void wrote:

50% less effective makes a huge difference. if you want to go choppy, go all the way choppy. And if you want to put a Wizard in with your khorne flakes, there is no restriction against this.

The exception to this would be chosen, chosen with the mark of tzch and that banner would be nasty.

That's just it though, it WoC with Halberds and Frenzy is as choppy as you get. Basically you are paying 25 points to never lose Frenzy and have a 6+ ward in addition to being the choppiest pipe bangin' bastards around.

Now if you want to go defensive you are much better with MoT and sword/board, yes. But if need a somewhat more durable WoC unit (perhaps over kill) then you want the Tizz Halberd with Frenzy flag lads.

Sort of a noob question here or well more just so i got my stuff straight.

1 if you loose combat with mok warriors they loose frenzy yes

2 The mot is only a 5 up ward in cc yes a 6 up against anything else yes

1: Yes, MoK only gives Frenzy, which can be lost.
2: MoT is +1 to whatever ward you have. So if you have a parry save of 6+ you now have a 5+. If you are getting shot and have no save you have a 6+. If you have an item of 4+ ward, you now have a 3+. Whee!

I once ran a big block of knights w/ MOT and the blasted standard. They laughed at skaven shooting before punking an abom, and after devastating a unit or two on the way. It was ace.