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Thanks and haha I was thinking about mot knights with blasted standard haha.

It's not a bad way to make sure your package gets delivered.

Ya but then again a chaos lord on jugger with ax of khorne and am of preservation is with them what would be effective to put himwith...?

For warriors how does mon halberd and shield and rage banner sound?

it sounds overly expensive.

the MoN is way overpriced. I wouldn't run a Nurgle army unless i was sticking to a theme.


the MoS is fairly useless in this age of Steadfastness. at least its cheap.



I think the way to go is either MoT and Shields for 5+ invuln in CC or go MoK and Halberds.

for Chosen, MoT, Halberds, Wailing Banner, and Favor of the Gods every time. shields are optional.

Thanks for the chosen recommendation.

So wouldn't mon warriors with rage banner be able to last longer and do more compared to mok warriors (sorry still new so this would be good to know)

-1WS isn't a huge deal.


it only effects the enemies attacks, not your attacks back(fighting WS4 enemies. they only are WS3 when hitting you. you still hit them against their WS4)

Warriors have WS5.


the reduction in WS will rarely change what the enemies roll.

in fact, the mark only effects WS3 and WS6 enemies. WS3 enemies will suddenly need 5s to hit and WS6 will need 4s instead of 3s.

everyone else will be unaffected.


the reduction in BS has a better overall effectivness, but there are so many shooting modifiers the effect will be negligible.


MoN is probably only worth 1/2 its current price.

Ok thanks I play against of bretonnians and wood elves (thats what my friends here play) so that is why MoN seemed like a good idea like men at arms being ws 1 and knights being put down to ws 2 sort of effective.

But how would you suggest kitting out a halberd warrior unit? Like what banner and what mark and would shields be a yes or a no?

If you are running Rage Banner I would either leave them un-marked or MoT. MoS is useless since Frenzy makes you ItP, and MoN, as stated, is FAR less useful than MoT for more points.

I can not tell you how much that bothers me, but there it is. MoT is always better than MoN (except when you want the lore) and that makes me terrifically sad. :(

Would Mot be worth it I mean they get a 6+ ward save i know 6+ isnt great but is it worth the points? but leaving them unmarked is not out of the question. hmmm.... tough call I like painting blue tz warriors.

Well, MoT is fairly cheap (<20 points I think on WoC... don't have the book with me.) On 18 warriors you are likely to save 3 wounds (you need 18 wounds to kill them all and 1/6 will be saved by a 6+ ward) which pays for marks up to ~48 points.

Is it necessary? Probably not unless your opponent has a lot of things that ignore armor, but if you are using the Frenzy banner anyway (MoK is cheaper) then marking them Tizz isn't a bad way to protect the investment a little more. Overall, it probably isn't quite as efficient as just straight MoK, but not terrible, and will probably pay for itself in saved warriors if you have spare points.

That is a good point I kinda missed the whole mathhammer part that reminds me I made a bunch of 6+ ward saves the other day so I think ill try em with mot.

I'm very new to WHFB, but I must say I'm a bit confused why Halberds are considered better than 2 handed weapon? Striking last doesn't seem to be that big of a deal anymore...?

Tarkand wrote:I'm very new to WHFB, but I must say I'm a bit confused why Halberds are considered better than 2 handed weapon? Striking last doesn't seem to be that big of a deal anymore...?

Halberds don't strike last. It's 2 handed, +1 strength, and striking at the warriors init of 5.

-Matt

Also remember that you no longer get to strike first when charging, so GW's are always striking last, and Halberds are always going at I 5. That is pretty great against slower things like ogres and other monstrous critters who can thin you out a good bit.

Plus Str 6 is only marginally better than Str5, seeings as how the majority of models are T3, and those that are T4 or more are pretty expensive and tend to be slow (WoC being one of the few exceptions it seems.) It generally seems to be better to kill off as many toughies as you can before they swing back than taking losses and hitting back a little harder than otherwise.

The extra hand weapons are nice and all especially with mok or mot and rage banner if you are fighting things with toughness 6 and up but halberds are good for toughness 6 and under.

Like beating down things with low toughness and high armor ie bretonnian and empire knights take a nice little clobbering from halberds.

Still 2 hand weapons and frenzy is what 4 attacks a warriors? still not bad that would be fun to take against tk to cause some nice combat res


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Totally agree with that saved me against lance knights str 6 on the charge is nice me beating down 6 of the 9 means a few less str 6 attacks and me winning combat

Tarkand wrote:I'm very new to WHFB, but I must say I'm a bit confused why Halberds are considered better than 2 handed weapon? Striking last doesn't seem to be that big of a deal anymore...?

This totally depends on what you are hitting. Warriors can, in some situations, deal enough damage that what's on the other side is no longer threatining. Like for example, a hell pit abomination or a small unit of elite, but killy troops. Great weapons are not bad, but the difference between str 5 and 6 is not worth loosing your initiative 5.

However, for your Marauder horde, GW start to make a lot of sense in a lot of situations....

A horde of khorne marauders with gw is pretty brutal.

So I didn't do the math hammer but am ivthinking correctly halberd vs 2nd hand weapon.
Higher str means easier to wound things under str7 and causing a nice minus to the enemy armor. Rather than the extra attack making it a little harder to wound but the extra attacks being able to have a better chance of wounding toughness 7 and up?

I hope that made sense it is quite early so ya haha.

Wehrkind wrote:Plus Str 6 is only marginally better than Str5, seeings as how the majority of models are T3, and those that are T4 or more are pretty expensive and tend to be slow (WoC being one of the few exceptions it seems.) It generally seems to be better to kill off as many toughies as you can before they swing back than taking losses and hitting back a little harder than otherwise.

Oh I see... coming from W40k, I was expecting T4 to be the average (or at the very least, very common). But yeah, if the majority of units have T3, S6 is going to be overkill. There's no ID rule in Fantasy either, so having S6 or more on someone with T3 gives you no real advantage either.

Where do you get those halberts/GW anyway? Unless I'm mistaken, they don't come with the basic warrior kit...?

Strength 6 does give save -3, which can come up every now and then.

I went with a unit with great weapons, because I found more often than not, my opponents were deep enough that I had 2 or 3 rounds worth of steadfast and step up to chew through.
3 rounds of wounding on 2's, vs 3 rounds of wounding on 3's makes great weapons a decent choice.
Especially against dwarves and orcs, where you are outnumbered 3 to 1.

-Matt

Here is the mathhammer for GWs, Halberds, and XHWs on Frenzied warriors.

assuming a block 5 wide

WS5 will need 3s to hit most of the time so we will assume thats what they need.


GWs: 21 attacks, 14 hits.

vs T3 and T4: 12 wounds with -3 to armor, ASL

vs T5: 9 wounds with -3 to armor, ASL

vs T6: 7 wounds with -3 to armor, ASL

vsT7: 6 wounds with -3 to armor, ASL

vsT8+: 2 wounds with -3 to armor, ASL


Halberds: 21 attacks, 14 hits

vsT3: 12 wounds with -2 to armor

vsT4: 9 wounds with -2 to armor

vsT5: 7 wounds with -2 to armor

vsT6: 6 wounds with -2 to armor

vsT7+: 2 wounds with -2 to armor


XHWs, 26 attacks, 17 hits

vsT3: 11 wounds with -1 to armor

vsT4: 9 wounds with -1 to armor

vsT5: 6 wounds with -1 to armor

vsT6+: 3 wounds with -1 to armor.






XHWs under perform against Halberds and great weapons.

GWs have an edge in armor penetration and ability to wound, but ASL means they are vulnerable to enemies that can reliably get through armor.

This assumes you know that target will be a standard infantry block. I think it can be argued that Halberds work better as an all around smack to the face, whether your taking on ranks of scrubs, elite troops, or big nasties.

True, but XHWs will be less effective against more elite targets with better armor saves then the 5+ that most infantry have.


the Halberds wil carve anything up. the GWs are only better against high T monsters or things with insane armor saves.

The upside that I think gives the halberds the little bonus is that they would go before most things strike possibly saving yourself a couple wounds back at you.

The extra str is nice tho for sure but you already have a small unit as is of warriors and just thinking against knights and heavy armor killing a few off so that they dont get to attack back would be pretty useful imo.

if XHWs were free they would be a decent choice, but at the same price as halberds they really have no appeal.


GWs also lose out as they cost twice as much as Halberds.



I prefer Sword n board warriors as i run a Tzeench themed army and that 5+ ward is soo delicious.

I do run Halberd chosen(configured to get the 3+ ward), but thats it as far as warriors go.

I couldnt stop myself from building 18 halberdiers so im going to run them and well I ran them as khorne first against brets... along with 10 marauders the 18 khorne warriors massacred a huge portion of the army and was the only unit to get into cc :( he ran away from the rest of my army and my knights failed their charge 3 times in a row with snake eyes every time :( so magic 2 hellcannons halberd warriors and 10 marauders did em in

But I decided to go with all tz army I just like the blue too much and the 5 up ward too fun the 1 time I got to use them.

Tarkand wrote:
Oh I see... coming from W40k, I was expecting T4 to be the average (or at the very least, very common). But yeah, if the majority of units have T3, S6 is going to be overkill. There's no ID rule in Fantasy either, so having S6 or more on someone with T3 gives you no real advantage either.

Where do you get those halberts/GW anyway? Unless I'm mistaken, they don't come with the basic warrior kit...?

Yea, that messed with me a lot too. That, and the fact that a 4+ armor save is considered good. Really had to recalibrate a bit!

For my halberds I used the spare banner pole arms, some polystyrene tubing and some Empire Halberd bits and other random ax/hammer/sword blades I had. You can buy halberds from GW, but they are silly expensive, or if you have the new knights and don't want their lances those work too. I think I have some WIP shots in my blog down there if you want to see how I did it. Pretty simple.

The lances look great or as he said some plastic tubes from a hobby shop and then axes hammers and swords which you will several left overs per kit usually and that way they look better too

I guess I'll go see if i can do some halberds with my old empire pikeman I have from buying the orc vs empire from 2 edition ago...

Remember as well they don't strictly have to be halberds. Any of the weapon tips from the extra hand weapons on the warrior sprue will do the trick. Heck, mix it up a bit and run them as GWs to try it out here and again.

Im personally sticking with halberds the initiative is too good to loose it for an additional str.