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As I am an Ork player I know that the Imperium is a brutal and fascist society but it has reasons to be that way. GW states the Imperium of man is a brutal society that treats its citizens extremely harshly but as far as I have seen they never actually told us what the Imperium does to its citizens. From what I have read most of the suffering of the people of the IOM come from their planetary governors and not the Imperium itself. So I thought that we as the posters of Dakka Dakka could post what acts of oppression and whatever the Imperium does we can gather from fluff and the reasons for them so that everyone can use this thread as a resource if they ever need it as well as find out which acts of oppression are caused by whom: Imperium or planetary governor .

Rules:

The acts are to be divided into categories- Imperium of man and Planetary Governor.

Anyway I am a bit busy right now so I won't be able to post my points but I hope that you guys will be interested in participating.

The Planetary Governor *is* the Imperium. He rules by the direct will of the High Lords of Terra and, so long as the planetary tithe is met, his Psykers reported to the Black Ships (or killed), and his people adhere to the Imperial Creed, he's pretty much free to do with them as he wills.

There is a world in the Calixis sector, I believe it is Acreage, where it is said "the king owns a lasgun. This makes him king." The planet is otherwise kept as a superstitious, medieval backwater, where people are burned at the stake for such heresies as owning a comm bead.

Sepheris Secundus has, several times, put down revolts from the populace through brutal repression and purges of the population, for the temerity of demanding safer working conditions in the mines that provide the planet's tithe.

The Inquisition can, at a word, condemn the population of an entire world to death, or imprisonment, or forced relocation, or worse.

The Mechanicus accepts, as tithe, living men and women... for use as servitor stock. Hopefully, the organs they take from you are fatal in their removal.

The Imperial Guard removes their tithe population and inducts them into the guard... generally for life. Rare is the Guardsman who will ever see his homeworld again.

There is no such thing as public, entertainment television. Such broadcasts are political or religious in nature.

The people of a Hive are given (often implanted with) an ID chit that defines who they are, where they work, what they can and cannot buy and, in some Hives, where they can and cannot travel. Loss of this cognomen is as good as a death sentence, as one cannot buy food, pay rent, use medical services, or do, well, anything in the Hive without it.

The imperium uses DEADLY force (from its own forces) to put down public unrest.

Rioters will often be shot (or worse).

The guard is pretty much a conscription army. With no pension plan. It is a death sentence with variable time limit.

Unrest isn't tolerated.

Xeno tech smuggling isn't tolerated.

Worship of anything but the emperor isn't tolerated.

not paying the Tith isn't tolerated


aside from those, you can do pretty much what you want. the actual living conditions vary greatly from horrible to pretty comfy.

-Genocide (if deemed necessary)
-Vicious rpression of non-sanctioned opinions/thoughts/speech/religions
-Forced population transfers (population from World A is loaded onto a ship and brought to World B)
-Torture
-Slavery

Of course it varies from World to world, but at the same time as long as a Governor pays his tithe, provides conscripts, doesn't engage in heresy, and keeps things stable on the planet he'll be tolerated no matter what crazy gak he does. Thus the Imperium has a hand of complicity in it all.

Psienesis wrote:The Planetary Governor *is* the Imperium. He rules by the direct will of the High Lords of Terra and, so long as the planetary tithe is met, his Psykers reported to the Black Ships (or killed), and his people adhere to the Imperial Creed, he's pretty much free to do with them as he wills.

There is a world in the Calixis sector, I believe it is Acreage, where it is said "the king owns a lasgun. This makes him king." The planet is otherwise kept as a superstitious, medieval backwater, where people are burned at the stake for such heresies as owning a comm bead.

Sepheris Secundus has, several times, put down revolts from the populace through brutal repression and purges of the population, for the temerity of demanding safer working conditions in the mines that provide the planet's tithe.

True, but the governer is given control of the planet. as long as he makes his tithes he can run the world as he sees fit. In fact Tanith was a democracy. The Governor was an elected official.

The Inquisition can, at a word, condemn the population of an entire world to death, or imprisonment, or forced relocation, or worse.

Needs of the many outweight the needs of the few. So if it helps the imperium as a whole they do it.

The Mechanicus accepts, as tithe, living men and women... for use as servitor stock. Hopefully, the organs they take from you are fatal in their removal.

Usually prisoners.

The Imperial Guard removes their tithe population and inducts them into the guard... generally for life. Rare is the Guardsman who will ever see his homeworld again.

Its a necessary evil

There is no such thing as public, entertainment television. Such broadcasts are political or religious in nature.

False. Caiphis Cain mention several dramas used purely for entertainment.

The people of a Hive are given (often implanted with) an ID chit that defines who they are, where they work, what they can and cannot buy and, in some Hives, where they can and cannot travel. Loss of this cognomen is as good as a death sentence, as one cannot buy food, pay rent, use medical services, or do, well, anything in the Hive without it.

Will vary form world to world. But in 4 differnent sources of fluff [Eisenhorn, Reavnor, Gaunts Ghosts, and Ciaphis Cain] make no mention of this. So i believe it will vary from planet to planet.

Psienesis wrote:
There is no such thing as public, entertainment television. Such broadcasts are political or religious in nature.

Not entirely true, some of the more civil worlds do broadcast entertainment to the people. not the kind we know of but still... however some of this might be political in nature.
a good example is the "circus" in the ravenor book..2 i believe. carnivora. heavily televised to most of the world in question.

Kage's homeworld in the Last Chancers did this. The only way to get one removed was join the Guardsmen as far as I remember.

No one seems to have mentioned the thousands sacrificed to the Emperor daily to keep him 'alive'.

The Grey Knights often kill any Space Marines or Guardsmen they work with so that word of their atrocities can't spread.

Torture and excecution of any 'heretics'- those with Xenos artifacts, non believers or those who displease an Inquisitor.

It's not that all GrimDark.
On a standard Imperial world is quiet, and you live like we live today ( anyway without TV, Internet and such... ).
If Governor is to ruthless Citizens can complain to the Administratinum who then investigate that...
On most Imperial worlds Governors are elected by the people, on others their sons are succeeding them...
It's best to live on medium populated world ( around several billions ), on Hive City it's difficult to distribute food and water - not to mention everything else...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Psienesis wrote:
The people of a Hive are given (often implanted with) an ID chit that defines who they are, where they work, what they can and cannot buy and, in some Hives, where they can and cannot travel. Loss of this cognomen is as good as a death sentence, as one cannot buy food, pay rent, use medical services, or do, well, anything in the Hive without it.

And waht can you do today without ID card?

Brother Coa wrote:

And waht can you do today without ID card?

In America, unless you're doing something that requires you to have an license (operating a vehicle), you are not required to have an ID with you at all. If you are stopped by law enforcement, you are not required to produce ID.

Lonecoon wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

And waht can you do today without ID card?

In America, unless you're doing something that requires you to have an license (operating a vehicle), you are not required to have an ID with you at all. If you are stopped by law enforcement, you are not required to produce ID.

It's till a crime not having ID card, read the rules on the net...
I know guy that lives here and don't have ID at all...
He have 49 years...
And they barely let him go the last time he was asked for his ID...
Man is my hero, living completely free ( no bills, occasional job... ).

chromedog wrote:
The guard is pretty much a conscription army. With no pension plan. It is a death sentence with variable time limit.

Better then working in a mine or living in some cramped gak shack i suppose.

Compared to most things out there, Imperial Citizens should consider themselves lucky, lest they be slaves on a chaos owned world. I wonder how pissed the Emperor would be if he saw what happens on some of these words though.

If you want to know about the citizens of the imperioum just read some black libard books set in a hive cty.For instance there is a breff description in healsreach and a huge bit about a riout in the ultramarine onimbous the first book (can't reamber its name soz also it not the short story called chanins of comand).

Brother Coa wrote:It's not that all GrimDark.
On a standard Imperial world is quiet, and you live like we live today ( anyway without TV, Internet and such... ).
If Governor is to ruthless Citizens can complain to the Administratinum who then investigate that...
On most Imperial worlds Governors are elected by the people, on others their sons are succeeding them...
It's best to live on medium populated world ( around several billions ), on Hive City it's difficult to distribute food and water - not to mention everything else...

Do you really think "complaining to the Administratum" will get the average citizen anywhere? The Imperium has no political participation and there's no way for the average citizen to even complain. If they do complain the Governor will get whift of it, accuse him as a heretic, and he'll be taken off somewhere and shot.

Again the Administratum doesn't care what the Governor does as long as he pays his tithes, provides conscripts, and keeps things quiet. Saddam Hussein for instance would have been a perfectly fine Imperial Governor had he paid his tithes, provided some IG conscripts, and paid homage to the Imperial Cult.

Brother Coa wrote:

Lonecoon wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

And waht can you do today without ID card?

In America, unless you're doing something that requires you to have an license (operating a vehicle), you are not required to have an ID with you at all. If you are stopped by law enforcement, you are not required to produce ID.

It's till a crime not having ID card, read the rules on the net...
I know guy that lives here and don't have ID at all...
He have 49 years...
And they barely let him go the last time he was asked for his ID...
Man is my hero, living completely free ( no bills, occasional job... ).

No, you don't need ID on you all the time in America unless you're a legal immigrant, in which you need a card to prove you are a legally allowed to remain in America. You have to have you're address for verification, and ID for actually applying or going to places which actively require you to show ID. I guess many Americans carry some form of ID on them anyway, but you don't always have to carry some form just in case you need it. If you're stopped by the Police, name and address, if you're going somewhere like applying for a license of some sort, then anyone with any sense will take ID with them. Unless laws have changed recently of course.

As for ID in the Imperium, it would vary for the size of the population and the attitudes of the Governor and officials. A strict Governor on a big Hive world would likely have ID because distribution of various resources would be so difficult and law enforcement likely has to deal with many gangs and criminals. A small population with a lenient Governor would be the opposite in all likelihood.

iproxtaco wrote:
No, you don't need ID on you all the time in America unless you're a legal immigrant, in which you need a card to prove you are a legally allowed to remain in America. You have to have you're address for verification, and ID for actually applying or going to places which actively require you to show ID. I guess many Americans carry some form of ID on them anyway, but you don't always have to carry some form just in case you need it. If you're stopped by the Police, name and address, if you're going somewhere like applying for a license of some sort, then anyone with any sense will take ID with them. Unless laws have changed recently of course.

And who is talking about America? I live on Balkan, here if you don't carry ID and they ask you for it - you are spending one night in jail for sure. And that's for just walking on the street...

As for ID in the Imperium, it would vary for the size of the population and the attitudes of the Governor and officials. A strict Governor on a big Hive world would likely have ID because distribution of various resources would be so difficult and law enforcement likely has to deal with many gangs and criminals. A small population with a lenient Governor would be the opposite in all likelihood.

For Imperium it's necessary, especially when you have a planet with 32.000.000.000 people.

I think the point of clarifying it as "in America" illustrates the difference in experiences from country to country (which may also illustrate the difference in planet-to-planet in the Imperium).

In America, the police cannot stop you and ask for ID "just because". In the Imperium, this is probably not the case, though local Arbites and other police forces may not have cause to arrest you on the spot for failure to produce ID without some other "probable cause" (such as suspicion of involvement in a crime). Again, depending on the planet.

not all planets will require ID.

even the task of having a universal ID system would be a nightmare.


some places will require an ID, some won't.


the Imperium is soooo diverse that practically every possable system will be in use somewhere.

I think that is, ultimately, what it will come down to.

The Imperium, as an organization, requires very little from the planets under its control:

1) Pay your tithe
2) Report your Psykers
3) Shun the xeno and the heretic
4) Follow the Creed

... beyond that? It's up to the individual planet, or system of planets.

The Mechanicum has abducted the populations of entire worlds and worked them to death to meet quotas.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The Mechanicum has abducted the populations of entire worlds and worked them to death to meet quotas.

And what is this from?

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The Mechanicum has abducted the populations of entire worlds and worked them to death to meet quotas.

Yeah, never heard of that. Where did you read that?

One of those big rulebooks iirc.

Not a good enough source.

That being said, the Imperium is a big place. Some worlds are probably just lovely to live on, not that much different from our modern day Earth. Some worlds are grimdark hyper opressive hives, and some are peaceful bucolic agri worlds. It varies a lot.

The majority of Imperial citizens live on Hive Worlds I believe, and those are specifically described to be pretty rotten places for the majority of its inhabitants.

General tyranical acts i suppose...
That said... things could always get worse.

Harriticus wrote:The majority of Imperial citizens live on Hive Worlds I believe, and those are specifically described to be pretty rotten places for the majority of its inhabitants.

The majority of planets are civilized worlds..hive, and forge worlds are relatively rare planets overall. You're more likely to live on a civilized world with a population of mayb 10-20 billion than a hive world with its hundreds of billions of people.

Religion other than the worship of the Emperor is not tolerated is very true. But they don't care how you venerate the Emperor as long as you do. The way they spread the Imperial creed for most worlds is like the spreading of Christianity during ancient times. They observe a worlds culture and then decide who they can integrate emperor worship into it. So for some worlds the Emp lives in their sun as a sun god or he is a hunter that protects them from wild animals etc. Plus the fact of the matter is that in 40k almost all religions other than the one that praises the Emp are either fronts for chaos gods, daemons or aliens. So Religious intolerance is right in 40k.

What is done to psykers is unfortunate but a necessary act. Read up the fluff on the 'dark age of technology' and "age of strife", one of the major causes of the downfall was psykers going insane or getting possessed by daemons. Plus they are needed to fuel the astrominicon otherwise space travel grounds to a halt or more accurately becomes very difficult which leads to untold suffering for hundreds of worlds.

Hive cities are not the majority of worlds, Civilized worlds and agri-worlds are the norm.

ChrisWWII wrote:

Harriticus wrote:The majority of Imperial citizens live on Hive Worlds I believe, and those are specifically described to be pretty rotten places for the majority of its inhabitants.

The majority of planets are civilized worlds..hive, and forge worlds are relatively rare planets overall. You're more likely to live on a civilized world with a population of mayb 10-20 billion than a hive world with its hundreds of billions of people.

True, but their is hiveworlds out there like armigroddion (I think thats howyou spell it?).

Psienesis wrote:The Planetary Governor *is* the Imperium. He rules by the direct will of the High Lords of Terra and, so long as the planetary tithe is met, his Psykers reported to the Black Ships (or killed), and his people adhere to the Imperial Creed, he's pretty much free to do with them as he wills.

There is a world in the Calixis sector, I believe it is Acreage, where it is said "the king owns a lasgun. This makes him king." The planet is otherwise kept as a superstitious, medieval backwater, where people are burned at the stake for such heresies as owning a comm bead.

Sepheris Secundus has, several times, put down revolts from the populace through brutal repression and purges of the population, for the temerity of demanding safer working conditions in the mines that provide the planet's tithe.

Imperial governors are local officials who managed to seize power for themselves one way or another (including democratic elections with term limits, as the case may be), and met the "they're in power? they're not heretics? they're willing to pay some light taxes, and cooperate with Imperial officials should the need arise?" checklist.

The Inquisition can, at a word, condemn the population of an entire world to death, or imprisonment, or forced relocation, or worse.

Yes, when said world is so infested with daemons or genesteeler cults that the general approach of "land a few thousand troops and some tanks, who nine times out of ten will manage to take an entire planet held by millions of entrenched foes" fails to cleanse. Also known as "everyone is either already dead or else currently in the process of being eaten alive".

The Mechanicus accepts, as tithe, living men and women... for use as servitor stock. Hopefully, the organs they take from you are fatal in their removal.

Yes, criminals condemned to death, on their own worlds. Not really a tithe, though.

There is no such thing as public, entertainment television. Such broadcasts are political or religious in nature.

Except there is. The Cain novels reference a number of widely broadcast television series, as well as sporting events, and both the Cain novels and Abnett's Ravenor trilogy feature characters that spend most of their time reading or watching porn on their Space iPads. A number of books even reference cartoonish depictions of chaos worshippers in popular dramas, with the Inquisition not even bothering with idiots who decide to imitate them, since they have actual cultists to hunt down.

The people of a Hive are given (often implanted with) an ID chit that defines who they are, where they work, what they can and cannot buy and, in some Hives, where they can and cannot travel. Loss of this cognomen is as good as a death sentence, as one cannot buy food, pay rent, use medical services, or do, well, anything in the Hive without it.

Never seen that, anywhere. Every depiction of a hive has fallen somewhere between "run down version of a first world city" and "slightly better than a third world slum, only in a universe where toxic waste turns you into something out of the Star Wars cantina, instead of just giving you cancer (but solar radiation will give you super cancer that even the Inquisition doesn't have the resources to cure, in an ironic turnaround of the "super power-horrific death" hazardous material continuum generally present in Sci-fantasy)", without any mention of the average lower-class citizen even officially existing.

The Imperial Guard removes their tithe population and inducts them into the guard... generally for life. Rare is the Guardsman who will ever see his homeworld again.

chromedog wrote:The guard is pretty much a conscription army. With no pension plan. It is a death sentence with variable time limit.

Except by conscription you mean "volunteer", with only something like the top ten percent of applicants being accepted into the Guard proper, right? Because that's pretty much the norm: take around the top ten percent of the planet's defense force, with the numbers failing to reach .1% of the population even in the most dire of circumstances (Armageddon).

Durza wrote:No one seems to have mentioned the thousands sacrificed to the Emperor daily to keep him 'alive'.

Using the most extreme numbers for the golden throne (ten thousand a day), and the most conservative estimate of the Imperial population (somewhere around one quadrillion (one thousand trillion; the only hard number I've ever come across simply says "the teeming thousands of trillions of humans spread across the galaxy" (page 24 Chaos Daemons codex))), you get less than half of a millionth of a percent sacrificed annually, which puts the number at less than one percent of psykers (as I recall, the rate of psykers is something like one out of every million humans; otherwise it's one in a thousand, and blanks are one for every million psykers, I can't recall which) specifically the weakest and most unstable one percent, who would otherwise die in the far more horrific manner of "exploding with daemony goodness; also fire and death upon everything you've ever known or loved, because daemons just roll that way".