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Dead or alive, the Emperor provides humanity with its most powerful weapon, regardless of what foe they are facing: Faith.

Ecclesiarchs and Adeptes Sororitas (and the rare individual outside of their orders) actually channel miracles through their faith in the God-Emperor, without being psykers themselves.

Inquisitors and Astartes alike (depending on Chapter) may use the Emperor's Tarot, believed to be guided by the hand of the Emperor himself, to find information about their targets and guide their wrath towards the most deserving. This allows them to put an end to heretical acts or xeno aggression before it causes irreparable harm.

And, rarely, but sometimes, miracles evidence themselves before the common Guardsman or other common citizen, saving lives or turning the tides of battles in the Imperium's favor. Such events further reinforce the people's faith in the Emperor (and the Imperium) and the cycle is thus self-perpetuating.

What is it that you don't understand tarnish and Hazzer?

The Emperor is an irreplaceable being that fulfils the most important jobs in the Imperium. Firstly, he broadcasts the Astronomican, a Beacon in the Warp like a Lighthouse that all trained Imperial psykers can see and thus navigate from planet to planet, system to system. As well as this he is psychicly holding the barrier between the Imaterial and material realm and stopping the Warp and thus The Powers of Chaos from spilling over into the Imperium. He also provides protection through faith, in which many non-psykers can channel 'holy' powers during a crisis, and also takes a physical role in governing through his tarot, and sometimes creating events such as the Storm of the Emperors Wrath to actively protect the Imperium.

in conclusion the majority of votes agree that the Imperium is strict and if you disobey the Emperor you will be punished thus may lead to some punishments that sound cruel.
As long you serve the Imperium of man and the Holy Emperor you will live a normal life and the way you want to live it.
Many of you have points with no evidence or simply wrong facts and you should read about the Imperium a bit more before commenting on this.

^ And no hippies, the IoM does not tolerate hippies.

Part of the problem in defining whether or not the IoM is "grimdark" or not is the separation of game-facts from world-building, or the effects that the institutions of the IoM have on the people they rule over.

I am reminded of a paragraph from Abnett's Malleus where he describes the Inquisitorial Palace on Thracia Primaris, said to be "the size of a small city itself... with black staetite facings, darkened windows [and] protective spines of iron spikes." Abnett goes on to say (through the voice of Inquisitor Eisenhorn) "Critics of the Inquisition may regard its architecture as almost comically overdone, playing directly to the general public's worst fears about the nature of the Inquisition with its deliberate, black menace. That, I would say, is precisely the point. Fear keeps the populace in line, fear of an institution so terrible it will not hesitate to punish them for transgressions."

"Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station."

im simply saying: the emporer is not perfect and never was. he might be the best man for the job... but thats not enough.

2nd: dont put me in the same post as hazzer please.

He's not just the best man for the job, he's the ONLY man for the most important job in the Imperium.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

tarnish wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:
the Emperor actually keeps Deamons from entering the material realm.

otherwise, deamons could walk right into reality whenever they wanted.

the Emperor makes that extreamly difficult. he is literally holding the fabric of reality together.

where did you get that notion? did daemons have free rule untill the emperor came along? come on... there is no fluff what so ever to support this...
as for the astronomican it does make the system or terra stable, and possibly the ones around it, but even that is unfounded in any fluff whatsoever....

Like Bob said,

the Emperor has been keeping Deamons from, easily, entering the material realm since he was born(8000BC)

the Emperor did it while he walked amoung mankind and he does it now from the Golden Throne.


go and look at Lexicanum and learn the fluff yourself before you go and say people don't know what they are talking about

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Emperor

You're conflating what the Emperor does with the webway portal he built in the golden throne, and what the Septims in The Eldar Scrolls were retconned into doing in Oblivion...

did you even click on the link in my post?

it says the exact things i said.

tarnish wrote:im simply saying: the emporer is not perfect and never was. he might be the best man for the job... but thats not enough.

2nd: dont put me in the same post as hazzer please.

Its spelt HAZZER.If you are saying about my spelling and garamer but im sorry.Plus what have I done wornge?

tarnish wrote:im simply saying: the emporer is not perfect and never was. he might be the best man for the job... but thats not enough.

2nd: dont put me in the same post as hazzer please.

Well, wouldn't the best man for a job be enough? Not only is he the best man, he's the only man. No other being in the galaxy can do the job the Emperor does. Even the Sigilitte, the most powerful psyker except Magnus and The Emperor crumbled to dust trying to keep the Webway portal closed under the Golden Throne. I don't understand why you think The Emperor is inadequate. What more do you want him to do?

Torpedo Vegas wrote:The answer, as always, is "it depends". The imperium is massive place, there is no right way of knowing how the planetary governments treat their people, beyond the standard 'No Xenos, no Chaos, worship the Emperor or die".

^this, there are simply far to many worlds with trillions of people. The Imperium can in no way send troops to shut down every single coup or cult there is. If the problem persists then yes they will intervene to stop the influence of chaos from spreading to other planets.

iproxtaco wrote: Well, wouldn't the best man for a job be enough? Not only is he the best man, he's the only man. No other being in the galaxy can do the job the Emperor does. Even the Sigilitte, the most powerful psyker except Magnus and The Emperor crumbled to dust trying to keep the Webway portal closed under the Golden Throne. I don't understand why you think The Emperor is inadequate. What more do you want him to do?

Dont you see the delicious irony in that? that the Imperium hallowed creator basically was not up for the task? besides this is not his greatest failure by far, the worst one is that they actually worship him. the good emperor never wanted that to begin with.
This, is what makes 40k grimdark to me, not the wars or the endless strong-arm bullcrap, but the simple fact that the greatest human being ever known was as flawed as the people he led. His hubris has but prolonged mankinds extinction and the only thing that makes the wheels of the imperium turn is total ignorance to this fact.

as for your final point: i believe quite a few beings could do the job he does... just not to benefit the imperium.

ChrisWWII wrote:The majority of planets are civilized worlds..hive, and forge worlds are relatively rare planets overall. You're more likely to live on a civilized world with a population of mayb 10-20 billion than a hive world with its hundreds of billions of people.

While there may certainly be more civilized worlds than there are hive or forge worlds, I'm not sure that necessarily means you are more likely to live on one.

Let's take your estimated figures, for example. A hive world has hundreds of billions of people - we'll assume 200 billion, as that's the lowest figure in that range. Comparatively, we can use 20 billion for your civilized world estimation, which is the upper end of that range. If we compare these numbers, you would need 10 civilized worlds for every 1 hive world to have a 50/50 chance of growing up on either option.

In some ways, this mimics our earthly experience. If you don't mind me borrowing some statistics:

The Population Reference Bureau notes that "In 2008, for the first time, the world's population was evenly split between urban and rural areas. There were more than 400 cities over 1 million and 19 over 10 million.

According to The Earth Institute @ Columbia University, urban areas amount to approximately 3% of Earth's land surface, yet roughly half of the entire human population lives in urban areas.

This illustrates how, even though there is far more landmass classified as non-urban (97%), roughly half the population lives within that 3% of urban areas. If we can extend that to the IoM, then even a relatively small number of Hive Worlds could compose parity or majority populations.

There are, according to Lexicanum, 32,380 Hive Worlds. Four of the most notable ones have their populations listed, and these range from 25-500 billion.

Civilized Worlds, on the other hand, are listed as ranging from 15 million to 10 billion. While I find it odd to lump Forge Worlds in with Civilized Worlds, rather than Hive Worlds, the population figures for notable Forge Worlds are listed ranging from 80 million (Agripinaa) to 20 billion (Mars).

Using the same mathematical comparison above, this means at the upper end you'd need 25-50 Civilized/Forge Worlds for every Hive World, and at the low end, 312-1666 Civilized/Forge Worlds, to give an even chance of growing up on Civilized/Forge Worlds as Hive Worlds.

Of course, these calculations are flawed by not knowing the averages, or how many planets of each type there are, and also by not including all of the other types of planets in the IoM. Still, I think it's an interesting point to be made.

tavoittamaton wrote:
While there may certainly be more civilized worlds than there are hive or forge worlds, I'm not sure that necessarily means you are more likely to live on one.

This illustrates how, even though there is far more landmass classified as non-urban (97%), roughly half the population lives within that 3% of urban areas. If we can extend that to the IoM, then even a relatively small number of Hive Worlds could compose parity or majority populations.

Of course, these calculations are flawed by not knowing the averages, or how many planets of each type there are, and also by not including all of the other types of planets in the IoM. Still, I think it's an interesting point to be made.

Great reasoning there, but there are just so many factors that are impossible to predict:
even dead worlds might have hydrophonics and some hive Worlds will have some self-suffisance i certain areas. the tech is there after all and used in abundance in the rest of the imperium, so ofc. the hive Worlds depend on high end stuff to even hope to function.
standard of living untill grown will also affect the resourses needed ofc, and for the forgeworlds there are so many workers who are servitors that they would probably consume very little of anything. otherwise i think the standard imperial citizen dies young. at around 40...?

That idea that the Astronomicon is essential for Warp travel always puzzled me.

Think about it: for twenty thousand years before the Emperor revealed himself, humanity was discovering distant stars, colonizing them, and using Warp travel all the while. Meanwhile, the Tau manage to use the Warp just fine without an Astronomicon. The loss of it would be devastating, but not completely catastrophic. Humanity would adapt, and though Warp travel would be slower it would be possible. Heck, it would probably be safer, too, since the ships would only be skipping through the surface of the Warp.

The Emperor's real use is to bind the Imperium together.

While your analysis is valid tavoittamaton, I have to agree with tarnish. THere just are too many variables to make an accurate well educated answer to this question. I agree that I may have been wrong with saying you are more likely to grow up on a civilized world. I believe the more accurate statement is that the vast majority of planets are relatively self sustained civilized worlds, with hive worlds, forge worlds and agri worlds being relatively rare. Making the assumption that there are as many forge and agri worlds as there are hive worlds (which is an assumption with no factual backing whatsoever, it's just being made to illustrate a point), there are still over 900,000 planets that are relatively normal.

tarnish wrote:

iproxtaco wrote: Well, wouldn't the best man for a job be enough? Not only is he the best man, he's the only man. No other being in the galaxy can do the job the Emperor does. Even the Sigilitte, the most powerful psyker except Magnus and The Emperor crumbled to dust trying to keep the Webway portal closed under the Golden Throne. I don't understand why you think The Emperor is inadequate. What more do you want him to do?

Dont you see the delicious irony in that? that the Imperium hallowed creator basically was not up for the task? besides this is not his greatest failure by far, the worst one is that they actually worship him. the good emperor never wanted that to begin with.
This, is what makes 40k grimdark to me, not the wars or the endless strong-arm bullcrap, but the simple fact that the greatest human being ever known was as flawed as the people he led. His hubris has but prolonged mankinds extinction and the only thing that makes the wheels of the imperium turn is total ignorance to this fact.

as for your final point: i believe quite a few beings could do the job he does... just not to benefit the imperium.

There's no irony in that. He's the best man, he does a good job. He is up to the task, the last 10,000 years has shown that. He ultimately failed because he had outside forces working against him not because of a build-up of his own mistakes. Their is irony in the Imperium's religion however, I agree. If the Emperor was as flawed as any human, the basic point of the character would disappear. The whole point of the Emperor is that he is the perfect human. If he wasn't better than your average man then the Great Crusade would never have succeeded.

Who, just out of a matter of interest, do you think could do the same job as the Emperor?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hawkward wrote:That idea that the Astronomicon is essential for Warp travel always puzzled me.

Think about it: for twenty thousand years before the Emperor revealed himself, humanity was discovering distant stars, colonizing them, and using Warp travel all the while. Meanwhile, the Tau manage to use the Warp just fine without an Astronomicon. The loss of it would be devastating, but not completely catastrophic. Humanity would adapt, and though Warp travel would be slower it would be possible. Heck, it would probably be safer, too, since the ships would only be skipping through the surface of the Warp.

The Emperor's real use is to bind the Imperium together.

Sure they traveled the Warp, but it wasn't anywhere near a safe as it is today. It was slow, unreliable and a lot more dangerous and a lot less accurate. To travel across an empire as large as the Imperium, humanity needs relativley safe and easy travel. They couldn't do it back before the Emperor, it's one of the main reasons man's realm fractured.

Hah, you think the Tau can use the Warp. They can make dives towards it, which causes the vessel to jump towards their destination. It's extremely slow, and they can only travel very short distances, one of the main disadvantages of the Tau. They can't navigate it like human psykers can. They lock on and do a single jump to their destination, no deviation.

The Emperor's job is to protect humanity. He holds the barrier between the Warp and the material realm, he's the figure that all humans worship binding humanity under a single faith. He actively governs the Imperium through visions and his tarot, and he actively protects his people through divinations, Warp powers, and granting non-psykers the ability to use faith in times of crisis. He broadcasts the Asctonomican signal across the galaxy, allowing ships to travel the Imperium. Through the soul-binding, he creates more powerful psykers. He also keeps the Webway gate underneath the Golden Throne closed, stopping it from becoming a huge Warp portal they can't close, destroying Terra and allowing Chaos to have a permanent gate into the heart of the Imperium.

tarnish wrote:Great reasoning there, but there are just so many factors that are impossible to predict:
even dead worlds might have hydrophonics and some hive Worlds will have some self-suffisance i certain areas. the tech is there after all and used in abundance in the rest of the imperium, so ofc. the hive Worlds depend on high end stuff to even hope to function.
standard of living untill grown will also affect the resourses needed ofc, and for the forgeworlds there are so many workers who are servitors that they would probably consume very little of anything. otherwise i think the standard imperial citizen dies young. at around 40...?

I suppose I should have left the list of unknowns open-ended, because it's true. AFAIK, GW isn't giving us those kinds of metrics anytime soon. Still, I'm not sure how import-dependence or standard of living affect my rough estimates. Can you clarify?

ChrisWWII wrote:While your analysis is valid tavoittamaton, I have to agree with tarnish. THere just are too many variables to make an accurate well educated answer to this question. I agree that I may have been wrong with saying you are more likely to grow up on a civilized world. I believe the more accurate statement is that the vast majority of planets are relatively self sustained civilized worlds, with hive worlds, forge worlds and agri worlds being relatively rare. Making the assumption that there are as many forge and agri worlds as there are hive worlds (which is an assumption with no factual backing whatsoever, it's just being made to illustrate a point), there are still over 900,000 planets that are relatively normal.

Thanks

In all honesty, proving you wrong was not the goal of my post, and I hope it didn't come across that way. It was more me considering the intersection of some previous comments (life on a hive world is bad) with your comment (most of the worlds aren't hive worlds). I think both of those points are valid. Their intersection, which was the point of my post, was that the populations of hive worlds are so incredibly dense that they likely amount to at least a very sizable minority, if not parity/majority of the population of the Imperium.

If we were making a moral judgment on the IoM (which I wasn't), you could choose to quantify it by population or territory. Your point is that, on the vast majority of IoM worlds, things are really not that bad. On the other hand, if you were to look at the experiences of the population as a whole you might come to a different conclusion.

One number that I neglected in my previous post, but on second thought is worth mentioning, is another statistic about the Imperium itself:

The Imperium is the largest and most powerful political entity in the galaxy, consisting of at least a million worlds, which are dispersed across most of the Milky Way galaxy. [emphasis mine]

I mentioned before that there were approximately 32,380 hive worlds (again, according to Lexicanum), or 3.238% of the 1 million worlds in the IoM (base estimate). That would mean that, in order for there to be population parity between hive worlds and all the other worlds, hive worlds would need to comprise 29-30x the population of the rest of the vast number of planets in the IoM.

If we go back to the numbers I had before...

Tavoittamaton wrote:Using the same mathematical comparison above, this means at the upper end you'd need 25-50 Civilized/Forge Worlds for every Hive World, and at the low end, 312-1666 Civilized/Forge Worlds, to give an even chance of growing up on Civilized/Forge Worlds as Hive Worlds.

...then 29-30 definitely falls in the middle of the first range, and far short of the latter. This estimate assumes all of the other planets in the IoM are Civilized/Forge Worlds, which we know to be untrue, meaning that the numbers may be even more favorable than 29-30x.

I fully appreciate all of the factors not taken into account, and how that might make someone uncomfortable with me trying to prove something mathematically with all of the apparent holes in the data. But I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm just evaluating, using the figures available to us, whether it is reasonably likely that half or more of the population of the IoM grow up on hive worlds. I think it is, but if you disagree, then that's fine too

tavoittamaton wrote: I suppose I should have left the list of unknowns open-ended, because it's true. AFAIK, GW isn't giving us those kinds of metrics anytime soon. Still, I'm not sure how import-dependence or standard of living affect my rough estimates. Can you clarify?

well, the humanity is bound to have settled a lot of planets that need certain products added to them to make life there plausible. individual hiveworlds are not the exeption here i believe. but its all very vague and i cant possibly add anything solid.

Q: iproxtaco: Who, just out of a matter of interest, do you think could do the same job as the Emperor? /Q

The eldar would be adept enough to do that without the astronomican to begin with and would not have endangered the rest of the galaxy by drawing in the tyranids. the only real problem there is that the emporer was too ignorant to even attempt contact and more peacefull dealings with them, so we will never know
The C´tan dont need the warp at all to travel. So the technology was certainly there to seek other means of transportation....

Or even better, mabye their should never have left terra, but that story is a bit boring now is it not...?

As for the emporer being perfect..... i dont argue with religion, and you seem to have a lot if faith in this guy, so ill stand down and allow you your faith. he protects.

tarnish wrote:

tavoittamaton wrote: I suppose I should have left the list of unknowns open-ended, because it's true. AFAIK, GW isn't giving us those kinds of metrics anytime soon. Still, I'm not sure how import-dependence or standard of living affect my rough estimates. Can you clarify?

well, the humanity is bound to have settled a lot of planets that need certain products added to them to make life there plausible. individual hiveworlds are not the exeption here i believe. but its all very vague and i cant possibly add anything solid.

Q: iproxtaco: Who, just out of a matter of interest, do you think could do the same job as the Emperor? /Q

The eldar would be adept enough to do that without the astronomican to begin with and would not have endangered the rest of the galaxy by drawing in the tyranids. the only real problem there is that the emporer was too ignorant to even attempt contact and more peacefull dealings with them, so we will never know
The C´tan dont need the warp at all to travel. So the technology was certainly there to seek other means of transportation....

Or even better, mabye their should never have left terra, but that story is a bit boring now is it not...?

As for the emporer being perfect..... i dont argue with religion, and you seem to have a lot if faith in this guy, so ill stand down and allow you your faith. he protects.

@iproxtaco: You quoted all i said without any additions whatsoever? Did you agree or has your keyboard caught fire?

tarnish wrote:@iproxtaco: You quoted all i said without any additions whatsoever? Did you agree or has your keyboard caught fire?

Twice now it hasn't included what I posted so here it goes for a third time.

Give me one being who could sit on the Golden Throne, broadcast the Asronomican, whilst holding the barrier between realities together, that's what I asked, not examples of different races and their different methods of travel.
Why would the Eldar want to ally with the Imperium and vice versa? The Eldar serve their own motives first and foremost. The expansion of man is directly opposed to the Eldar's aspirations of bringing about the second rise of the Eldar Empire, whereas races like the Interex are happy to just slowly expand and incorporate other races into theirs, like the Tau. Saying the Emperor is ignorant betrays your own. The Eldar are just as likely to betray you as to befriend you, that's been made clear many times.
A human vessel is able to travel the Warp without the Astronomican. It is needed because the Imperium is so vast. It allows Warp travel to be faster, less dangerous, easier and more accurate. Without it, the Imperium would lose it's ability to communicate and travel, and thus would crumble.

You asked for a being that could do it. i give you every single farseer in the eldar race, with a lot less power or sacrifices needed and with less critical results to the galaxy. the golden throne is like a large american car: i pollutes as much as it gets the job done. im sure there would be less clumsy solutions, but thats not the topic it seems.

The concept of the golden throne anchors the entire concept of 40k, the dark ages in the future. its a technological marvel that even the emperor did not fully understand (read the thousand sons heresy book ) and was actually built for someone else (spoiler from the same book).

tarnish wrote:You asked for a being that could do it. i give you every single farseer in the eldar race, with a lot less power or sacrifices needed and with less critical results to the galaxy. the golden throne is like a large american car: i pollutes as much as it gets the job done. im sure there would be less clumsy solutions, but thats not the topic it seems.

The concept of the golden throne anchors the entire concept of 40k, the dark ages in the future. its a technological marvel that even the emperor did not fully understand (read the thousand sons heresy book ) and was actually built for someone else (spoiler from the same book).

Any farseer? They couldn't hold a candle to Malcador, Malcador couldn't hold a candle to The Emperor. They haven't got a chance of doing anything near what he does. There is no way they could hold the very fabric of reality together.
It doesn't work like that. You can't just stick any old psyker on it, they will fry. The Emperor does it because he is the only one who can. What is this pollution you are talking about?

the emperor did not build the throne. he improved it after he found it burried somewhere on terra. 20 times? read it again if you didnt get that right

the eldar psyker has control that no human could ever even grasp. they dont need great power to accomplish things, and they would not need the rusty chair to do big E´s job for him.
hold a candle? to them? are you human-supremist?

this concludes my response to the ludicrous arguement by the way, i will read your last reply but thats it.

I do not recall any fluff that says the Emperor 'found' the Golden THrone. GIve us a source and page citation on that if you want us to believe that. AFAIK the Emperor 'retired' from the Great Crusade to return to Terra to build the Golden Throne that was originally mean to give humanity access to the Webway.

The problem is that with the Golden Throne you don't NEED finesse, you need power. It doesn't matter how efficiently you distribute the power you have if you simply don't have enough. Maybe they could run the Astronomican better (since the power for that is supplied by the psykers) but that's about it. Everything else the big E does, needs raw power that no Eldar farseer has.

tarnish wrote:the emperor did not build the throne. he improved it after he found it burried somewhere on terra. 20 times? read it again if you didnt get that right

the eldar psyker has control that no human could ever even grasp. they dont need great power to accomplish things, and they would not need the rusty chair to do big E´s job for him.
hold a candle? to them? are you human-supremist?

this concludes my response to the ludicrous arguement by the way, i will read your last reply but thats it.

The Emperor was a god in a human body, not a psyker. He was created in a manner not unlike Slaanesh, through the coalescence of psyker souls in the warp (that it was a directed action, rather than psychic resonance reaching a critical mass and collapsing into one being, doesn't change that), and then incarnated in a human body.

tarnish wrote:the emperor did not build the throne. he improved it after he found it burried somewhere on terra. 20 times? read it again if you didnt get that right

the eldar psyker has control that no human could ever even grasp. they dont need great power to accomplish things, and they would not need the rusty chair to do big E´s job for him.
hold a candle? to them? are you human-supremist?

this concludes my response to the ludicrous arguement by the way, i will read your last reply but thats it.

In my 20 times of reading A Thousand Sons did I find anything about The Emperor 'finding' The Golden Throne. Give me the page and the quote or your point will have no meaning. It is essentially a life support machine now and a method of activating the Webway portal.

The Astronomican is made possible because of The Emperor. HE IS MORE POWERFUL THAN ANY OTHER BEING IN THE PHYSICAL GALAXY. Eldrad, arguably the most powerful and adept Eldar psyker known to us, is nothing compared to The Emperor. He doesn't have anything near the same power.
Am I a human supremist? No, It's just in this case, the human is supreme.

I should hope you've learnt a thing or two, after YOU made this argument ludicrous. I believe this is a win to me. Sanity prevails!

tarnish wrote:the emperor did not build the throne. he improved it after he found it burried somewhere on terra. 20 times? read it again if you didnt get that right

the eldar psyker has control that no human could ever even grasp. they dont need great power to accomplish things, and they would not need the rusty chair to do big E´s job for him.
hold a candle? to them? are you human-supremist?

this concludes my response to the ludicrous arguement by the way, i will read your last reply but thats it.

If you are going to critize other people then the others say the correct saying you could at least acknowledge it.

And please please put where you got this from because the sources are obviously wrong. The golden throne was originally thought up by the Emperor to be the only way into the webway however; this was scraped when Magnus the Red tried to warn the Emperor about Horus's betrayal. This action made holes in the Emperors psychic shield. Daemons then managed to pour though from the war into the human part webway killing thousands. The sisters of battle and other forces fought the daemons until the Emperor mended the psychic shield, hence closing it al apart from the Astronomican. Then when the Emperor boarded Horus's flagship Malcador the Sigillite took the ~Emperors place this ended up killing him and the mortally wounded Emperor used the rest of his power to keep the Astronomican going....

Source(This is what you need to do): http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Golden_Throne#The_Golden_Throne