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Or to be politically correct, 'Choosing An Army: Thought Shower!'

My cousin is going to be taking up the hobby again and since i'm starting up again aswell i want to choose a new army to build along side his.

He is going to start a pre-heresy Luna Wolves force and i have convinced him to start with 500pts. I originally considered a Space Marine force that are on the cusp of heresy but after reading up on pre-heresy a bit more i realised that the Luna Wolves are infact the Black Legion via The Sons of Horus. Thats pretty much my good vs bad idea out the window then... Also, since his Luna Wolves will still be devout i can't do good vs bad in reverse either. Maybe i should scrap this idea entirely?

Whether i choose a fluffy army or not(and i'm now veering away from fluff for a change of pace) i do not want to use Tau. The sole reason for this is that i will be working on a series of heavily fluffed Tau diorama models parrallel to this project. With Tau out of the picture i would like to have a simple force with not too many models. Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines sound like the most obvious choices with fewest models and easy kit bashing meaning i can focus on painting.

I worry that i am just taking the easy root out so i appeal to those with greater knowledge to help me out!! I bow to superior knowedge!

Ok so you just want suggestions for a MEQ force then? What's your playstyles? What kinda marines are you looking for?

I like your avatar...
And yeah we need to know what you are looking for play style-wise

Sorry guys, please excuse the quality of my recent posts as i haven't slept much recently. So if i'm missing out important information or making little or know sense i apologise.

Thank you purplefood, i really like it too, i found it online when i was doing another project and it's a great stand in until i find something else or make my own.

As for my style of play, i can count on both hands the number of games i've played, on one hand the number of games with relevant rules and i've never played a game without forgetting some important rule for my own army.

Ergo my style of play is non-existent. As for the type of army, as i said i am leaning towards Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines. I prefer these armies because i will be able to kit bash out some beautiful troops without too much effort and time. This would be nice for a change and i can work on my own paint scheme for the force. As i said it doesn't need to be Marines, but i would like an army without too many models and with a solid multipurpose play style that i can enjoy. Nothing too difficult.

Oh and it's 500pts remember. Hope i answered your questions! Thanks for helping!!

How about Eldar?

Low model count, easy to paint, but look impressive.

Nice idea, i really like John Schaffer's Alaitoc Craftworld Eldar from page 226/227 of the BRB. And i like Eldar's smooth clean surfaces.
I don't have a codex, what sort of list would you advise for 500pts?


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Here is a possible Space Marine list: What do you all think?

HQ:
Space Marine Chaplain - 100pts

Troops:
8 Man Tactical Squad -138pts
5 Man Scout Squad/Telion/Missile Launcher/3 Snipers - 147pts

Heavy Support:
Vindicator - 115pts

Total: 500pts

Love Eldar!

Not much you can field w/ 500 pts of Eldar. They are an elite army so getting to 1000 points will not break the bank. Stay clear of the battleforce box set IMHO. Eldar is not the "it" army right now so there tend to be good deals on eBay.

Thanks for the reply! If you were going to field 500pts of Eldar, what would you take?

Oh and here is a possible Chaos Space Marine List.

HQ:
Daemon Prince/Mark of Khorne - 120pts

Troops:
5 Chaos Space Marines/Chaos Rhino - 110pts
5 Chaos Space Marines - 75pts
5 Chaos Space Marines - 75pts

Heavy Support:
Chaos Vindicator - 125pts

Total: 505pts

This would be tough. Maybe this.

Total Roster Cost: 499

Autarch + Power Weapon + Fusion Gun

9 Dire Avengers
1 Dire Avenger Exarch + DireEx PW & Shimmershield

9 Dire Avengers, 108 pts = 9 * 12
1 Dire Avenger Exarch + DireEx SP & Diresword
1 Wave Serpent + TL Missile Launchers

LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:Thanks for the reply! If you were going to field 500pts of Eldar, what would you take?

I've played a lot of low point eldar in my day, and I'll say first off that we can put togeather some strong lists.

People who say Eldar can only play larger point games really just don't know what they are talking about. Eldar have several advantages over MEQ based armies at low point levels.

1) Cheap HQ choices
2) Cheap(er) troops
3) Speed

This allows us to fill out those requirements and take more killy stuff. This is the 500 point list I used in the last escalation league I was in, and probably my favorite 500 point army that I have fielded.

(80) Farseer- Doom
(92) 10 Storm Guardians- 2 flamers
(100)Wave Serpent- tl shuri cannon
(134) 3 Guardian Jetbikes + Warlock- cannon, spear, destructor
(40) War Walker- 2x shuri cannon
(40) War Walker- 2x shuri cannon

total: 486

To fill out the last 14 points you can either upgrade the serpent's cannon to a scatter laser [1 point over] or grab some extra kit on the Farseer- Witnessing + Singing Spear [1 point under]

This gives you lots of shooting and lots of speed. A great way to get somebody started playing Eldar .

For what you described, Eldar and Necrons seem appropriate.

Necrons also have the solid colour, easy-but-not-easy paint job you seem to be after, and are a potent force.

I don't see why you can't make your Tau modeling project and a Tau army, they are not JUST pretty, they also have JSJ


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Plus Tau REALLY excel in low points game, as they can fit in much of their firepower.

I'll throw a hat in at eldar or if you really want space marines perhaps black templar (some awsome models though they are rarely used due to an old codex however rumor has it they will get a new one soon)

eldar look fun, I currently play orks, i'm working on my black templar SM right now and once done with them will likely be getting eldar or tau (currently leaning toward eldar)

Thanks for all the replies again, that is certainly a lot of information to think about!

mcyeatman, i like this list but is the Wave Serpent enough unit support? I don't have an Eldar Codex and i've never played against them but i can imagine the WS being dealt with very quickly by enemy anti-tank weapons leaving the infantry in the line of fire. Am i wrong?

akaean wrote:(92) 10 Storm Guardians- 2 flamers

I don't have a Codex, is this the only troops in that roster? Split into 2 squads of 5 i assume... Or am i mistaken?
I really like the look of this list too but if these are the only troops options i wouldn't be very well equipped when i need scoring units?

im2randomghgh wrote:Necrons also have the solid colour, easy-but-not-easy paint job you seem to be after, and are a potent force.

I have an issue with Necrons. And i have no idea why! I'm going to put it down to the models not appealing to me but i can't put my finger on it. I feel they lack character and i love my fluff. Sorry.

im2randomghgh wrote:I don't see why you can't make your Tau modeling project and a Tau army, they are not JUST pretty, they also have JSJ
Plus Tau REALLY excel in low points game, as they can fit in much of their firepower.

I completely and wholeheartedly agree that they would do well at low points value games. My modeling project is actually born of an army list i wrote for an N'dras faction that were abandoned on a desolate planet thought to be dead. While writing the list i became quite fluent in what the Tau have to offer in all aspects of gaming. The reasons i don't want to use them for both projects are threefold; I would like to try another army out so i can learn more about the hobby; I don't want to sicken myself of them as this project is going to be immensely heavy going and very fluffy and; I don't trust myself not to get bogged down in the fluff of the army that i will be eating, sleeping and breathing during the other project.

Thank you all for the wonderful input but before we go any further i would like to make a few points clear.
I may have found a perfect Space Marine force with a tiny bit of fluff i've written for it. I don't want you all to think this has been futile as it's got me quite excited about Eldar and i can already feel ideas forming for something a bit more fluffy than this. I actually think i would be doing them an injustice by starting them without knowing any of their background story.
So i hope you all forgive me but i'd like to run my Space Marine idea by you all instead?

Here it goes... I've kept the story minimal so i can enjoy the gaming side of the hobby more:
This is based on the army list for SM given previously with a Chaplain HQ. The Chaplain is a missionary who was drafted in to 'clean up' and convert parts of an underhive to the way of the Emperor. He converted(and killed) a lot of gang members many of whom went on to become IG, SM, SoB and other Imperial staff. After this and much more service to mankind he was given a ship and he took those he had converted as crew and warriors. He ventures between planets converting humans and ergo building his army to fight those who appose the Emperor because; "The maelstrom of battle is the only true place of worship for a Space Marine and the slaughter of foes the truest offering." - Codex: Space Marines, p58.
Thoughts?


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Sorry i missed your post there G00fySmiley, i refer you to my latest reply.

sounds like a black templar chapret to me

the Vows that you can use are very interesting as well i highly reccomend picking up a codex, from GW black tamplar codex is among the cheapest at $22, so i'd imagine across the pond they are pretty cheap as well

Grey knights if you don't want many models and having them looking nice without too much of painting. (silver silver silver)

They also look cool and have a epic storyline.

LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:

akaean wrote:(92) 10 Storm Guardians- 2 flamers

I don't have a Codex, is this the only troops in that roster? Split into 2 squads of 5 i assume... Or am i mistaken?
I really like the look of this list too but if these are the only troops options i wouldn't be very well equipped when i need scoring units?

Nope! one of the cool thing about the Eldar Codex is that those Jetbikes are troops too! This is because when the 4th edition codex came out (the current one) they meshed all of the craftworlds into one Force Org Chart

Guardians of all varieties are troops- homage to Ulthwe
Dire Avengers are Troops- homage to Biel Tan
Pathfinders are Troops- homage to Alaitoc
and Guardian Jetbikes are troops- homage to Saim-Hann

As such the list I posted has 2 troop choices, the mech storm guardians and the Guardian Jet bikes. Usually those are both fast enough to give YOU the advantage in any objective games, since you can cover the entire board with your troop units.

If you want to keep the pre-heresy theme and play an evilish MEQ you could try a pre-heresy World Eaters. They were one of the first legions to fall to chaos and were instrumental in turning the other traitor legions. Their secret lodge structure and brutal playstyle would possibly allow them to attack other legions or work besides them and use either loyalist of chaos marine codexes.

mcyeatman wrote:This would be tough. Maybe this.

Total Roster Cost: 499

Autarch + Power Weapon + Fusion Gun

9 Dire Avengers
1 Dire Avenger Exarch + DireEx PW & Shimmershield

9 Dire Avengers, 108 pts = 9 * 12
1 Dire Avenger Exarch + DireEx SP & Diresword
1 Wave Serpent + TL Missile Launchers

This is a solid list for 500 points. The Wave Serpent probably will get popped quickly, but it's just there to get troops into range, then buzz about annoying things with the ML. Plus 10-man DA squads can put out an amazing amount of hurt for their points. Although I'm not sure about the Autarch, I'd say get a cheap farseer in there instead.

G00fySmiley wrote:sounds like a black templar chapret to me

Chapret? I'm presuming you meant Chapter: Actually i'm considering that hes ex-Black Templar, during his original conversion campaign.

G00fySmiley wrote:the Vows that you can use are very interesting as well i highly reccomend picking up a codex, from GW black tamplar codex is among the cheapest at $22, so i'd imagine across the pond they are pretty cheap as well

I'm guessing Vows, are Chaplain upgrades from the Templar Codex. I plan on using the Space Marine Codex because i want to distance him from his old allegiances. I would also, later, like to add Imperial troops to show the diversity of talents his troops have. Assassins and such...

Marthike wrote:Grey knights if you don't want many models and having them looking nice without too much of painting. (silver silver silver)

They also look cool and have a epic storyline.

I refer you to my most recent posts mate but i may well throw in a squad of Grey Knights later if they are available.

akaean wrote:Guardians of all varieties are troops- homage to Ulthwe
Dire Avengers are Troops- homage to Biel Tan
Pathfinders are Troops- homage to Alaitoc
and Guardian Jetbikes are troops- homage to Saim-Hann

As such the list I posted has 2 troop choices, the mech storm guardians and the Guardian Jet bikes. Usually those are both fast enough to give YOU the advantage in any objective games, since you can cover the entire board with your troop units.

Whoa man, thats pretty tasty, i definitely need to read the codex and get stuck into these badboys after this wee army.

SilverMK2 wrote:If you want to keep the pre-heresy theme and play an evilish MEQ you could try a pre-heresy World Eaters. They were one of the first legions to fall to chaos and were instrumental in turning the other traitor legions. Their secret lodge structure and brutal playstyle would possibly allow them to attack other legions or work besides them and use either loyalist of chaos marine codexes.

I actually threw this idea around for quite a while, Silver. Now i hear it again, do you think it could be incorporated into my Chaplain army? Maybe thats too complex fluff wise though...

Cerebrium wrote:This is a solid list for 500 points. The Wave Serpent probably will get popped quickly, but it's just there to get troops into range, then buzz about annoying things with the ML. Plus 10-man DA squads can put out an amazing amount of hurt for their points. Although I'm not sure about the Autarch, I'd say get a cheap farseer in there instead.

Interesting... This is definitely something i'm going to look into near the end of the year!

What do you all think about this Chaplain army?

LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:is the Wave Serpent enough unit support? I don't have an Eldar Codex and i've never played against them but i can imagine the WS being dealt with very quickly by enemy anti-tank weapons leaving the infantry in the line of fire. Am i wrong?

The Wave Serpent is probably the most difficult transport to kill out of any army. It's a pretty decent support unit; one of my Wave Serpents, for example, has a pretty high kill count on enemy tanks with the all-shuriken cannon setup (run it around and shoot up rear armor)

I don't have a Codex, is this the only troops in that roster? Split into 2 squads of 5 i assume... Or am i mistaken?
I really like the look of this list too but if these are the only troops options i wouldn't be very well equipped when i need scoring units?

Guardians are minimum size 10. The idea here is that you would use them as shock troops or drop them off with the Wave Serpent if you needed scoring units.

I have an issue with Necrons. And i have no idea why! I'm going to put it down to the models not appealing to me but i can't put my finger on it. I feel they lack character and i love my fluff. Sorry.

They don't have a very diverse look - to me, anyway, pretty much all Necrons look the same (except maybe the Tomb Spider and the Monolith). I wouldn't recommend Necrons because I feel that they are boring.

Thank you all for the wonderful input but before we go any further i would like to make a few points clear.
I may have found a perfect Space Marine force with a tiny bit of fluff i've written for it. I don't want you all to think this has been futile as it's got me quite excited about Eldar and i can already feel ideas forming for something a bit more fluffy than this. I actually think i would be doing them an injustice by starting them without knowing any of their background story.
So i hope you all forgive me but i'd like to run my Space Marine idea by you all instead?

Here it goes... I've kept the story minimal so i can enjoy the gaming side of the hobby more:
This is based on the army list for SM given previously with a Chaplain HQ. The Chaplain is a missionary who was drafted in to 'clean up' and convert parts of an underhive to the way of the Emperor. He converted(and killed) a lot of gang members many of whom went on to become IG, SM, SoB and other Imperial staff. After this and much more service to mankind he was given a ship and he took those he had converted as crew and warriors. He ventures between planets converting humans and ergo building his army to fight those who appose the Emperor because; "The maelstrom of battle is the only true place of worship for a Space Marine and the slaughter of foes the truest offering." - Codex: Space Marines, p58.
Thoughts?

Eldar are a fun and beautiful army. I relaly like your story; it seems like an interesting way to incorporate several small armies together. You could easily peg him as a member of the inquisition; re-educating people and fending off xenos are his way of doing what he can to eliminate heresy.

An entire army of chaplains?

LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:I actually threw this idea around for quite a while, Silver. Now i hear it again, do you think it could be incorporated into my Chaplain army? Maybe thats too complex fluff wise though...

Sure, chaplains could count as the lodge leaders.

Xarian wrote:The Wave Serpent is probably the most difficult transport to kill out of any army. It's a pretty decent support unit; one of my Wave Serpents, for example, has a pretty high kill count on enemy tanks with the all-shuriken cannon setup (run it around and shoot up rear armor)

Hmmm, i'll bare that in mind, especially when playing against one!

Xarian wrote:Guardians are minimum size 10. The idea here is that you would use them as shock troops or drop them off with the Wave Serpent if you needed scoring units.

Nice flexibility indeed.

Xarian wrote:They don't have a very diverse look - to me, anyway, pretty much all Necrons look the same (except maybe the Tomb Spider and the Monolith). I wouldn't recommend Necrons because I feel that they are boring.

I couldn't agree more, bland, bland, bland!!

Xarian wrote:Eldar are a fun and beautiful army. I relaly like your story; it seems like an interesting way to incorporate several small armies together. You could easily peg him as a member of the inquisition; re-educating people and fending off xenos are his way of doing what he can to eliminate heresy.

Thank you very much Xarian! Funnily you should say that but i plan on kit bashing 'Inquisitor Lord Coteaz' for my Chaplain! Well possibly.



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purplefood wrote:An entire army of chaplains?

The Chaplain is the leader, his army just help to do his bidding, read up if you missed my fluff idea.

SilverMK2 wrote:

LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:I actually threw this idea around for quite a while, Silver. Now i hear it again, do you think it could be incorporated into my Chaplain army? Maybe thats too complex fluff wise though...

Sure, chaplains could count as the lodge leaders.

Nice idea man, I'm going to bash this idea around and see what happens, i'll get back to you! Thanks man.

I don't think a black templar would actually leave the order, but i guess you could write it into your story

here's the dakka summry of black templars and the vows

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Black_Templars_Special_Rules

you choose one vow and the descriptions are brief but if you look around for a copy of the vows in full (unsure if by terms and conditions if i can link here due to possible infringment of IP) but it is out there

Thanks G00fy!

G00fySmiley wrote:I don't think a black templar would actually leave the order, but i guess you could write it into your story

I guess if i slammed a Templar insignia on him somewhere he could just be working outside the Chapter? Or maybe i'll just not name his last Chapter!

I think you should go for the Word Bearers. There was clear tension between Garvi and 1st Chaplain Erebus since the outset, so it would fit well as I am clearly going to be pouring my heart and soul into a Loken model

Sion wrote:I think you should go for the Word Bearers. There was clear tension between Garvi and 1st Chaplain Erebus since the outset, so it would fit well as I am clearly going to be pouring my heart and soul into a Loken model

I don't think i'm feeling well... I... want to play the good guys.
Maybe i should seek medical attention but after rolling some ideas around i think i've decided on M41 puritans.
Mainly because i want to keep things simple and ignore the fluff but i think my hearts set on it. Time for me to create a new thread in 'Army Lists.'

Thanks to everyone who chipped in! The Emperor Protects!!


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Here is the new thread guys:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/365976.page

Please come along and if not thanks for helping me get this far!