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Made in us
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge




Australia

 Ghaz wrote:
 TalonZahn wrote:
Love the Flesh Tearers Bladeguard Vet, and there's anew Successor Chapter in there too.

The Cruor Blades look a lot like the Knights of Blood. Even their Chapter badge's are near identical.


Good pickup - likely an intentional move by GW so fans with Knights of Blood armies can still play their forces in the wake of the KoB's destruction

Emperor's Children
The Fourth Seal  
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws





Norfolk, NE

Probably along the same line as those Purple Dorn kids.... can't recall their name at the moment.

Soul Drinkers?

They got brought back as all Primaris Chapter.



Something is happening on the 24th, we sent you a poster.
 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 Marshal Loss wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 TalonZahn wrote:
Love the Flesh Tearers Bladeguard Vet, and there's anew Successor Chapter in there too.

The Cruor Blades look a lot like the Knights of Blood. Even their Chapter badge's are near identical.


Good pickup - likely an intentional move by GW so fans with Knights of Blood armies can still play their forces in the wake of the KoB's destruction

Since the Knights of Blood only show up in the fluff in connection with the Devastation of Baal where they're destroyed, I'm pretty sure anyone who painted a Knights of the Blood force weren't concerned if they were an 'active' chapter in the current background.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge




Australia

 Ghaz wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 TalonZahn wrote:
Love the Flesh Tearers Bladeguard Vet, and there's anew Successor Chapter in there too.

The Cruor Blades look a lot like the Knights of Blood. Even their Chapter badge's are near identical.


Good pickup - likely an intentional move by GW so fans with Knights of Blood armies can still play their forces in the wake of the KoB's destruction

Since the Knights of Blood only show up in the fluff in connection with the Devastation of Baal where they're destroyed, I'm pretty sure anyone who painted a Knights of the Blood force weren't concerned if they were an 'active' chapter in the current background.


They'd shown up previously in the 5th ed BA book, and their destruction wasn't stated until the publication of DoB, so I'm sure there were fans who were concerned with them not being an "active" chapter. Regardless, they've also appeared in other lore unconnected with the Devastation of Baal.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/26 00:58:04


Emperor's Children
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Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Ghaz wrote:
 TalonZahn wrote:
Love the Flesh Tearers Bladeguard Vet, and there's anew Successor Chapter in there too.

The Cruor Blades look a lot like the Knights of Blood. Even their Chapter badge's are near identical.


it could well be intentional. when a chapter dies it's heraldry is often re-used (it's often a way to quietly honor the dead chapter without nesscarily recylcing the name) a good example of this is the mentors legion who inherited the colour scheme of the star scorpions.

I could see Dante quietly arranging for the knights of blood's colour scheme to be re-used as a way to honor their sacrifice.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Near Golden Daemon Caliber





Affton, MO. USA

BrianDavion wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 TalonZahn wrote:
Love the Flesh Tearers Bladeguard Vet, and there's anew Successor Chapter in there too.

The Cruor Blades look a lot like the Knights of Blood. Even their Chapter badge's are near identical.


it could well be intentional. when a chapter dies it's heraldry is often re-used (it's often a way to quietly honor the dead chapter without nesscarily recylcing the name) a good example of this is the mentors legion who inherited the colour scheme of the star scorpions.

I could see Dante quietly arranging for the knights of blood's colour scheme to be re-used as a way to honor their sacrifice.

Honor their sacrifice and cover up the loss of a chapter in the process. People who saw the old symbol or read stories of their exploits will see the emblem and think the chapter is the same and just some error in the history being told. Anyone linking the symbol to the exploits of the fallen chapter will be purged and the only things known in the future will be that the chapter has thrived for more millennia than they actual have. Revisionist history with an inquisitorial seal.

LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13

I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 Marshal Loss wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 TalonZahn wrote:
Love the Flesh Tearers Bladeguard Vet, and there's anew Successor Chapter in there too.

The Cruor Blades look a lot like the Knights of Blood. Even their Chapter badge's are near identical.


Good pickup - likely an intentional move by GW so fans with Knights of Blood armies can still play their forces in the wake of the KoB's destruction

Since the Knights of Blood only show up in the fluff in connection with the Devastation of Baal where they're destroyed, I'm pretty sure anyone who painted a Knights of the Blood force weren't concerned if they were an 'active' chapter in the current background.


They'd shown up previously in the 5th ed BA book, and their destruction wasn't stated until the publication of DoB, so I'm sure there were fans who were concerned with them not being an "active" chapter. Regardless, they've also appeared in other lore unconnected with the Devastation of Baal.

The writing was on the wall, so to speak, in their first appearance in the background in the 5th edition codex. One which was to be proven true.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Come rules leaks for the bloated ones, so close to turkey day, release the leaks. Think of the nurglings.
   
Made in us
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge




Australia

 Ghaz wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 TalonZahn wrote:
Love the Flesh Tearers Bladeguard Vet, and there's anew Successor Chapter in there too.

The Cruor Blades look a lot like the Knights of Blood. Even their Chapter badge's are near identical.


Good pickup - likely an intentional move by GW so fans with Knights of Blood armies can still play their forces in the wake of the KoB's destruction

Since the Knights of Blood only show up in the fluff in connection with the Devastation of Baal where they're destroyed, I'm pretty sure anyone who painted a Knights of the Blood force weren't concerned if they were an 'active' chapter in the current background.


They'd shown up previously in the 5th ed BA book, and their destruction wasn't stated until the publication of DoB, so I'm sure there were fans who were concerned with them not being an "active" chapter. Regardless, they've also appeared in other lore unconnected with the Devastation of Baal.

The writing was on the wall, so to speak, in their first appearance in the background in the 5th edition codex. One which was to be proven true.


For sure, but there is a huge difference between the writing being on the wall, which is extremely common in 40k to the point that it's hardly noteworthy, and actual destruction. Regardless, the above point (that it would have been perfectly reasonable for fans to be disappointed with their demise) clearly stands.

BrianDavion wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 TalonZahn wrote:
Love the Flesh Tearers Bladeguard Vet, and there's anew Successor Chapter in there too.

The Cruor Blades look a lot like the Knights of Blood. Even their Chapter badge's are near identical.


it could well be intentional. when a chapter dies it's heraldry is often re-used (it's often a way to quietly honor the dead chapter without nesscarily recylcing the name) a good example of this is the mentors legion who inherited the colour scheme of the star scorpions.

I could see Dante quietly arranging for the knights of blood's colour scheme to be re-used as a way to honor their sacrifice.


Dante flat out says in Destruction of Baal that he won't rebuild the chapter; could even just be the High Lords or w/e doing the same thing, like with the Star Scorpions example you cited. Plenty of justification either way!

e: grammar

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/11/26 02:59:33


Emperor's Children
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Made in us
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

Am I the only one who noticed that none of the Blood Angels specific dreadnoughts are CORE? I expected the libby dread not to have it, because it's a character, but why not Furiosas?

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
Come rules leaks for the bloated ones, so close to turkey day, release the leaks. Think of the nurglings.

I'll second that. Can't wait to see the first Chaos codex of 9th edition.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Honestly if GW were writing to fluff, Death Company variants wouldn't be core for the same reason Flayed Ones and Destroyers aren't core for Necrons.

I expect preferential treatment though because Blood Angels players will be whiners and are super used to being treated special.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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Australia

What will happen to CSM Plagues when the DG book drops? Will they benefit form the 2W/inevitable weapon changes - and what about other units, if the DG keep them (e.g. "Chaos Lord" or "Possessed"). Very curious.

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Master Tormentor






St. Louis

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly if GW were writing to fluff, Death Company variants wouldn't be core for the same reason Flayed Ones and Destroyers aren't core for Necrons.

I expect preferential treatment though because Blood Angels players will be whiners and are super used to being treated special.

Death Company units are core. Death Company characters, less so.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Yes, but they shouldn't be.

   
Made in us
Master Tormentor






St. Louis

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yes, but they shouldn't be.

Debatable given Veterans and Devastators have the keyword as well, but honestly it would be reasonable to lose it and just make DC characters buff off the Death Company keyword rather than both Death Company and Core. On the other, the current setup keeps them from buffing DC Dreadnoughts or themselves still, so I get why they did it this way.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Laughing Man wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yes, but they shouldn't be.

Debatable given Veterans and Devastators have the keyword as well, but honestly it would be reasonable to lose it and just make DC characters buff off the Death Company keyword rather than both Death Company and Core. On the other, the current setup keeps them from buffing DC Dreadnoughts or themselves still, so I get why they did it this way.


Unit that BA doesn't fluffiwise WANT to see on field and whose sole purpose is to die in battle doesn't exactly feel like core...

But the supplement does have bunch of nerfs. No more 3d6" charge(+1 to hit and can choose which modifiers to charge roll apply), the redeployment stratagem for jump packs happens with turn delay, death company pre-game move capped at 12"(and 9" away from enemy), no "can't overshoot me on charge" relic(though can get "can fall back and charge and reroll charges" special issue wargear). And heroic intervene stratagem now only works on sanguinary guard.

Still going to be strong as they started among top dogs of marines. One thing still unclear is did sanguinary guard get nerfed at all from one of the most cost efficient units in the game from the faq version.

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
4663
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Master Tormentor






St. Louis

tneva82 wrote:

Unit that BA doesn't fluffiwise WANT to see on field and whose sole purpose is to die in battle doesn't exactly feel like core...

But the supplement does have bunch of nerfs. No more 3d6" charge(+1 to hit and can choose which modifiers to charge roll apply), the redeployment stratagem for jump packs happens with turn delay, death company pre-game move capped at 12"(and 9" away from enemy), no "can't overshoot me on charge" relic(though can get "can fall back and charge and reroll charges" special issue wargear). And heroic intervene stratagem now only works on sanguinary guard.

Still going to be strong as they started among top dogs of marines. One thing still unclear is did sanguinary guard get nerfed at all from one of the most cost efficient units in the game from the faq version.

Sure, but they also have a ton of synergy even in the fluff with the Chaplains, who have a core restriction on their prayers. Would be pretty silly to have their chaplain escort unable to do anything with them.

Bit sad about the nerfs, but on the other hand there's a lot of neat stuff in there as well like doubling up on WL traits and giving a sergeant a relic. Plus the accuracy bonus on the new Descent of Angels is nice, although the anti-synergy with our chapter tactic isn't.

Doesn't look like SG got nerfed, as they're still 30ppm, although power fists actually cost points now instead of being the same cost as the sanguine options.
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike






CORE is an abstract game mechanic to control aura interaction and is in no way related to fluff.

Get this into your heads people, we don't need to do a full analysis of the heresy each time GW gives someone a keyword.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/26 07:21:41


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Laughing Man wrote:
Debatable given Veterans and Devastators have the keyword as well...
And they should. This has nothing to do with them. The example given was Destroyers, who are not Core, and how this should apply to Death Company as well.

The Necron non-Core units all make sense from a fluff perspective:

1. Praetorians aren't part of the standard Necron command structure. Not Core.
2. Canoptek units are automotons, therefore not Core.
3. Flayed Ones are diseased Necrons who other Necrons don't want to be around. Not Core.
4. Destroyers are a cult that are slowly losing their minds to wanton bloodthirsty destruction. Also not Core.

Blood Angels have parallels with three of those things:

1. They're not part of the standard Blood Angel company structure, being ad-hoc units made of those that have fallen to their flaw.
2. They're are technically 'diseased' and kept apart from the standard Blood Angels (although obviously BAs aren't afraid of DC Marines, and actually venerate them for their sacrifice, intentional or otherwise).
3. They have lost their minds to wanton bloodthirsty destruction.

I don't know why you're bringing up Devastators or Veterans. These are regular Marines. They don't exist in the same number as, say, Tactical Marines or Intercessors, but they are core to a Marine force. Death Company, by their very nature, are not. Some Blood Angel armies might be lucky enough to have no Death Company in their ranks come the start of a battle.

They should benefit from Strats/abilities that are specific to them, and not to Core units. Chaplains can buff them in the same way that Destroyer Lords buff Destroyers, but not Core Necron units.

Anyway, that's the point of view that I'm trying to get across.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/26 08:00:06


   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Laughing Man wrote:
Debatable given Veterans and Devastators have the keyword as well...
And they should. This has nothing to do with them. The example given was Destroyers, who are not Core, and how this should apply to Death Company as well.

The Necron non-Core units all make sense from a fluff perspective:

1. Praetorians aren't part of the standard Necron command structure. Not Core.
2. Canoptek units are automotons, therefore not Core.
3. Flayed Ones are diseased Necrons who other Necrons don't want to be around. Not Core.
4. Destroyers are a cult that are slowly losing their minds to wanton bloodthirsty destruction. Also not Core.

Blood Angels have parallels with three of those things:

1. They're not part of the standard Blood Angel company structure, being ad-hoc units made of those that have fallen to their flaw.
2. They're are technically 'diseased' and kept apart from the standard Blood Angels (although obviously BAs aren't afraid of DC Marines, and actually venerate them for their sacrifice, intentional or otherwise).
3. They have lost their minds to wanton bloodthirsty destruction.

I don't know why you're bringing up Devastators or Veterans. These are regular Marines. They don't exist in the same number as, say, Tactical Marines or Intercessors, but they are core to a Marine force. Death Company, by their very nature, are not. Some Blood Angel armies might be lucky enough to have no Death Company in their ranks come the start of a battle.

They should benefit from Strats/abilities that are specific to them, and not to Core units. Chaplains can buff them in the same way that Destroyer Lords buff Destroyers, but not Core Necron units.

Anyway, that's the point of view that I'm trying to get across.



If you want a more parallel example, wulfen and wulfen dreads aren't core, I'd pitch them at the same level of "coreness" as death company.
   
Made in gb
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Nah not really. Death Company have been lurking under the surface of the BA core identity pretty much since their inception. Wolfen basically just happened when one of the many mediocre 40K fluff writers said "Err, let's do a Wulfen curse for the Space Wolves, a bit like the Blood Angels, yeah?" and the guy next to him said "Ok sounds good enough".
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




JWBS wrote:
Nah not really. Death Company have been lurking under the surface of the BA core identity pretty much since their inception. Wolfen basically just happened when one of the many mediocre 40K fluff writers said "Err, let's do a Wulfen curse for the Space Wolves, a bit like the Blood Angels, yeah?" and the guy next to him said "Ok sounds good enough".


Smaller number of troops = check
Outside of core organisation = check
Chapter considers them a curse/secret = check

When they began to exist isn't relevant, or even how. The point is the maintain a very similar position in the chapters organisation.

Is the destroyer curse not a core part of the necrons identity?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/26 08:37:34


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I'd have to say the core thing I don't think GW thinks about too much. It's more there as a mechanic to limit auras and not so much a fluff reason for it. At least from how it feels to me, something tacked on to just limit power in lists.
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




 AngryAngel80 wrote:
I'd have to say the core thing I don't think GW thinks about too much. It's more there as a mechanic to limit auras and not so much a fluff reason for it. At least from how it feels to me, something tacked on to just limit power in lists.


There's not enough books out to judge but from what we have, they're at best inconsistent and at worst just throwing it out at random.
   
Made in gb
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





You don't get extra points for italicising core, or else I would have done it myself, and that checklist means literally nothing, you could add "Assault troops (check) and Unreasonably angry (check)" and they'd also be irrelevant similarities. The Wulfen have existed for about as long as the DC, there's some snippets in SW 2E. The point I was making is that DC have been a BA mainstay, whereas Wulfen for a long time were a couple of single paragraphs and pretty much that's it.
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




JWBS wrote:
You don't get extra points for italicising core, or else I would have done it myself, and that checklist means literally nothing, you could add "Assault troops (check) and Unreasonably angry (check)" and they'd also be irrelevant similarities. The Wulfen have existed for about as long as the DC, there's some snippets in SW 2E. The point I was making is that DC have been a BA mainstay, whereas Wulfen for a long time were a couple of single paragraphs and pretty much that's it.


Destroyers are a necron mainstay, they're not core. Rhinos are a ubiquitous mainstay to many armies and not core. There is no rhyme or reason why death company would get it and those others wouldn't if your logic is determined by existing for a long time and being a unit lots of people take.
   
Made in gb
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





As has already been pointed out, Core is just a buff management mechanic. By arguing that DC shouldn't be core, you're literally just saying that DC should be buff-gimped, or have a distinct buff system because, reasons. Why are you arguing this?
   
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator




JWBS wrote:
As has already been pointed out, Core is just a buff management mechanic. By arguing that DC shouldn't be core, you're literally just saying that DC should be buff-gimped, or have a distinct buff system because, reasons. Why are you arguing this?


Because we were given core as this:

Core Units
The Core keyword is used to identify units that form the fighting… well, core, of an army. These are most commonly represented by units of line infantry, though this doesn’t mean it’s exclusive to Troops, nor just Infantry.


Yet units that do form the core of some armies don't have it, while other units that shouldn't be forming the core of a fighting force do and it's utterly ad-hoc which side a unit falls on so far.

If they just wanted a buff toggle switch they shouldn't be tying it to a fluff based concept.
   
Made in de
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I'd argue that marketing texts are neither fluff nor rules

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in gb
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 Jidmah wrote:
I'd argue that marketing texts are neither fluff nor rules


Whilst that's true enough, if a buff control button was wanted I just think there's other words they could key off that are less provocative, very evidently what someone considers a "core" part of their army is subjective.
   
 
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