Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm just curious, what are LGBT laws in the Imperium?

Are there gay, lesbian or bi people?

Seems like something that the Imperium would frown upon. Then again, I have no idea.

The Imperium doesn't care. There's a lot of homosexuals in the fluff, and no one bats an eye.

CULTISTS Of SLAANESH MUST BE PURGED! At least that's what the more paranoid people would think.

Being gay is perfectly OK as long as you lust after the emperor.

Loyalty to the emperor is all that matters. At this point unless you are with chaos other humans dont care what you are they have xenos to hate.

The problem with asking about largely cultural-based laws in the Imperium is that the Imperium is a big place, with lots and lots of worlds. And each world is left largely to itself. Submit your Imperial tithes on time, worship the Emperor in the approved fashions, etc... and the Imperium will largely leave you alone. Barring some as yet unknown pronouncement from the Emperor, the Imperium really doesn't care about that sort of thing.

So is the Imperium going to care of you're LGBT? Generally no. On the other hand, there's nothing stopping planetary governments from restricting and/or prohibiting LGBT. And once again, the Imperium isn't going to care.

The Imperium as a whole probably does not care, as long as it does not distract you from your duties to the imperium, specific planetary cultures may have another idea.

Hawkward wrote:The Imperium doesn't care. There's a lot of homosexuals in the fluff, and no one bats an eye.

really? who?

Also for a while, I thought the the Emperor had some "secret" relationship with Horus the same way Gandalf had a "special" relationship with Saruman in Lord of the Rings(strongly implied but never specifically mentioned)

PresidentOfAsia wrote:

Hawkward wrote:The Imperium doesn't care. There's a lot of homosexuals in the fluff, and no one bats an eye.

really? who?

read ravenor, homosexuality is mentioned there fairly casually, most imperial citizens don't care either way

PresidentOfAsia wrote:really? who?

There's Magot and her partner (can't remember her name off the top of my head) in the Commisar Cain books. Though it's never shown, Cain identifies them as a lesbian couple. iirc, Cain also indicates that there are more same sex pairings within the 597th Valhallan, and he doesn't really care about them so long as they don't affect morale.

Considering that the Imperial cult is heavily based on medieval Christian society, I wouldn't be terribly optimistic about it. GW avoids it (aside from old jokes like the Dark Angels' "shameful secret" that got retconned anyway) since it isn't really something that needs to be brought up, and can invoke too much controversy.

The Imperium doesn't care. There's a lot of homosexuals in the fluff, and no one bats an eye.

Can you cite Some of the fluff Where LGBT is mentioned?

LGBT is mentioned in many non-Astartes stories. The Cain stories reference both gay men and lesbian women multiple times, even having two of the most capable recurring characters, Magot and Grifen, are pretty overtly lesbians. Cain's response is basically "it's none of my business as long as they perform well on the battlefield"-- and that's basically the official response of the commissariat to these kinds of relationships, and you don't get that much more strict than they.

Hell, at least gay/lesbian relationships mean that they won't have a risk of getting pregnant, which would cut down on their combat capability.

Haha, just what I was thinking. I'm guessing that worlds with a sufficient population (like hive worlds-but most others) would be okay with it. Then again, GW will probably never give an answer, using the regular cop-out of "write your own", as it's currently a too-hot topic right now, and they don't want to risk losing business. It's a shame though; I'd like to hear the official answer, and see if the fictional Imperial society might be more advanced than our current one in a few accounts (other than some technology).

I don't see problem with it. As long as that don't interfere with your duties, it's ok.

Why are people so amused to this? When you have 90% of purely male and female Regiments of course that will be gays and lesbians.

As for the citizen private life, Imperium is only concerned in your tithe and Chaos worship. Except for those 2 you can do whatever you want. These meant that in fact Imperial is after all respect the rights and privacy of it's citizens.

micahaphone wrote:It's a shame though; I'd like to hear the official answer, and see if the fictional Imperial society might be more advanced than our current one in a few accounts (other than some technology).

"Advancement" doesn't really have anything to do with the issue. It's documented as having been tolerated or otherwise seen as normal in some of the most primitive civilizations that can qualify as civilizations in the first place, and can currently be observed as tolerated in some of the most advanced societies on Earth. It can therefore be seen as a variable independent of the relative progress of a society. It's at most tied to the ability of a population to grow: a population that can't expand its numbers readily is more tolerant, while one that can increase becomes less tolerant (which actually creates a negative correlation with advancement, since a more advanced society can support a greater population, and would therefore seek to encourage procreation as a general trend). Of course, that gets muddied when one adds inflexible dogmatic traditions into the picture, especially ones from entirely different cultures, and like any general trend there are always exceptions both ways, but that's roughly the observed anthropological situation.


As for examples, the only ones I can remember are from the Ciaphas Cain novels: the aforementioned Magot and Grifen, and the Captain of the Righteous Wrath in For the Emperor, who's stated to have had a relationship with one of the provosts killed in the riot (Cain suspects as much, Vail's commentary confirms it, with a mention of it being against regulations due the difference in rank).

micahaphone wrote:and see if the fictional Imperial society might be more advanced than our current one in a few accounts (other than some technology).

And with that statement you miss the point completely.

The Imperium isn't "more advanced" or "less advanced" in this area. There literally is no correlation between LGBT and the Imperium (actually, given that many military units are usually structured along gender-specific lines, there might actually be official policies regarding T in groups like the IG and Sororitas). It's like asking whether or not a sea captain cares about rabbits. As indicated, Cain doesn't care about such relationships within the Valhallan 597th, and it appears that the regimental officers don't pay any attention to them either. But you could just as easily encounter a regiment from a planet with a dimmer view of such relationships that decided to restrict same sex relationships - and it's likely that the comissar would go along with that if he or she felt that it aided regimental morale.

About the only group within the Imperium that you can probably point to and assume that they care either way are the Redemptionists - and largely because they probably disapprove of sex in general. Also note that they're a highly unofficial Puritanical (in every sense of the word) fringe sect of the Imperial Creed, and not representative of official Imperial views.

As most other posters have aleady said, the Imperium itself is unlikely to give a damn one way or another (they've got a galaxy to defend/rule/save/dominate).

The view on same-sex relationships would depend immensely on the world, but will have nothing to do with the Imperium. Just as a planetary governer may outlaw tight jeans, wearing a single glove and really sexy dance moves. So long as tithes continue to pour in the Imperium isn't going to give a toss about that one way or another.

It does make me wonder though, what if a planet was extremely discriminative against [insert gender/hair colour/ethnicity here] and then an Inquisitor shows up who happens to be [insert gender/hair colour/ethnicity here]. I doubt s/he'd be down with it.

EDIT: I believe slavery was an exception to this. The Imperium doesn't seem to tolerate it.

I'd say Bi and Trans gender is looked down upon.

For Bi,liking two things sounds like Slaanesh worship.

And wanting to change who you are would be heresy of the Emperors design.

Melkhiordarkblade wrote:I'd say Bi and Trans gender is looked down upon.

For Bi,liking two things sounds like Slaanesh worship.

Citizen: I like ice-cream and puppies.
Inquisitor: Liking two things?! HERESY!

And wanting to change who you are would be heresy of the Emperors design.

Actually, this makes sense. Especially with the Imperial Creed.

(aside from old jokes like the Dark Angels' "shameful secret" that got retconned anyway) since it isn't really something that needs to be brought up, and can invoke too much controversy.

But wasn't Lionel Johnson a gay poet who wrote poetry to his lover? Hence the primarchs name and the origin of that myth?

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Melkhiordarkblade wrote:I'd say Bi and Trans gender is looked down upon.

For Bi,liking two things sounds like Slaanesh worship.

Citizen: I like ice-cream and puppies.
Inquisitor: Liking two things?! HERESY!

And wanting to change who you are would be heresy of the Emperors design.

Actually, this makes sense. Especially with the Imperial Creed.

Hmmm, what side should i be on in this debate....As with so many things in the 40K universe it differs from world to world....Thats my stance on it

The problem with the Imperial Creed though is that it's far more reaching than one planet's whims. I'm sure there would be exceptional planets, but generally most would stick roughly to whatever the Imperial Creed dictated, depending on whether their influence waxed or waned.

Melkhiordarkblade wrote:I'd say Bi and Trans gender is looked down upon.

For Bi,liking two things sounds like Slaanesh worship.

And wanting to change who you are would be heresy of the Emperors design.

+ I think that they don't have any more tech to utilize this...

The High Lords care not what harmless fun you have in your free time as long as you pay taxes and serve the Emperor. It's really up to individual planets or solar systems, as long as they're not doing something so suspect as executing large numbers of perfectly healthy people. That would be wasting the Emperor's subjects for no good reason!

I'd imagine some places do discriminate. A new colony or a world in decline due to low population is likely to encourage everyone to breed. You'd better be prepared to do your duty. There might be extra taxes on you if you don't marry to have children. They might even be so sneaky as to induct more of the LGBT crowd into their military tithe just to get rid of them. Why not? It might even be tradition in some places, like the Sacred Band of Thebes.

Emperors Faithful wrote:It does make me wonder though, what if a planet was extremely discriminative against [insert gender/hair colour/ethnicity here] and then an Inquisitor shows up who happens to be [insert gender/hair colour/ethnicity here]. I doubt s/he'd be down with it.

It would depend on how much of a fuss the inquisitor wanted to make. Some inquisitors like to keep quiet and avoid attracting notice. Others like to generate attention because they have massive egos. Still others might decide to make a fuss purely to see what the results are.

EDIT: I believe slavery was an exception to this. The Imperium doesn't seem to tolerate it.

I don't know whether slavery itself is banned, but there are enough examples of "slavery in all but name" to make the point effectively moot.

Eumerin wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:It does make me wonder though, what if a planet was extremely discriminative against [insert gender/hair colour/ethnicity here] and then an Inquisitor shows up who happens to be [insert gender/hair colour/ethnicity here]. I doubt s/he'd be down with it.

It would depend on how much of a fuss the inquisitor wanted to make. Some inquisitors like to keep quiet and avoid attracting notice. Others like to generate attention because they have massive egos. Still others might decide to make a fuss purely to see what the results are.

Well, if they were undercover it would seriously hamper their ability to investigate wouldn't it? Since they'd need to co-operate with the local arbites.

EDIT: I believe slavery was an exception to this. The Imperium doesn't seem to tolerate it.

I don't know whether slavery itself is banned, but there are enough examples of "slavery in all but name" to make the point effectively moot.

True, and it's not like the Imperium could actually control this on each planet. I remember in the Black Templar graphic novel some captured tribesmen were forced to fight one another in a gladiatorial ring.

Interplanetary slave trades were right out though.

Brother SRM wrote: (aside from old jokes like the Dark Angels' "shameful secret" that .

What secret?

Lionel Johnson was a poet that repressed his homosexuality and wrote the poem 'The Dark Angel'

Johnson's homosexuality caused internal conflict with the catholicism he practised. It was his secret 'shame' that he had to bear alone.

Lion El'Jonson was the Primarch of the Dark Angels, who was betrayed by Luther.

The Dark Angels now alone bear the 'shame' of knowing their dark secret while still serving the imperium.

I think this is the correlation anyway.