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I did a quick search on the forum about warriors of chaos and the optimal unit size and found nothing. So thats when you come in,

For a Warriors of Chaos unit. what do you feel is the optimal size? I will be using a unit dedicated to Slaanesh (I searched the forum for best marks and found some great stuff!!!) and the game size will be somewhere between 1000-1500. I have 48 warriors to grab from but just not sure how to divide them up in squads. If you have any recommendations I would appreciate it.

Hey so I havent played anything that small with warriors yet only 1750+ games but here is what I have found effective.

18 warriors in a unit 6 wide 3 deep full command mot shield and you have a great anvil unit.

I would say mos is kind of well less effective in this edition sadly mot is sounding to be the best mark then mok.

But then again what are you running or trying to run and how competitive?

over all 18 is the best imo not too many but enough to pack a punch.

The game will be for fun and learning. Win or lose and I'm fine with that (This will be my first fantasy game). I mostly ask because of the movement tray I will have to make and for tactics.

So being Immune to Psychology and being able to flee isn't good any more? I wonder why? (a question for another day and another thread search/new thread)

I will be taking Knights and an exalted hero and a sorcerer and some marauders. Vs empire or deamons.

you can still flee is the thing you still make break tests so yea you can still run away :( .

Vampires and daemons hmmm tz magic always does nicely imo solves all lifes problems.

warriors 6 wide is good you have a supporting rank you can get 12 or 13 attacks off the front rank and you are warriors you are freaking amazing!!!! compared to other core troops.

Marauders I would say 10 wide 5 deep mok with flails daemons only hit hard but have relatively low toughness.
First turn of combat 40ish attacks at str 5 will do pretty good.

Mot hero is good he has a better ward save and yea he lives longer and keeps hitting hard.

Sorry rambling 6 wide for warriors is what I have seen being run and is what I run its effective.

mos not that amazing check what immune to psychology does page 70ish of the brb.

Mot gives you a 6 up ward against everything with shields 5 up parry save in cc on top of the 3+ armor pretty good

cowpow16 wrote:Mot gives you a 6 up ward against everything with shields 5 up parry save in cc on top of the 3+ armor pretty good

I just looked that up and decided that that is nice to have. But will I be using a ward save that often in CC? (I truly don't know)

Don't bother checking what Immune to Psychology does; the Mark of Slaanesh doesn't make you immune to psych. Instead it says ignore fear, terror and panic. All the good parts, none of the bad; and dirt cheap.

48 warriors?
I'd go 2 units of 17, 1 unit of 10. On the unit of 17, attach a hero into each.
It's 788 points with standard, musicians and marks of slaanesh.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:Don't bother checking what Immune to Psychology does; the Mark of Slaanesh doesn't make you immune to psych. Instead it says ignore fear, terror and panic. All the good parts, none of the bad; and dirt cheap.

48 warriors?
I'd go 2 units of 17, 1 unit of 10. On the unit of 17, attach a hero into each.
It's 788 points with standard, musicians and marks of slaanesh.

-Matt

I like that 17 in one leaving one for the hero. I'm debating on the marks still but i think experience in the game will tell me more than asking online atm.

In close combat, your ward save comes from using a handweapon and shield. You first roll your armour save, and if you fail it, the shield grants a 6+ "parry" ward save. The mark of Tzeentch bumps this to a 5+ save, which makes your guys that much tougher.

That's not to say mark of slaanesh is not good too, though.

Ya the being able to use both saves is pretty nice makes for lots of lively warriors and hey a 6 up ward against evrything is not to be taken lightly and blue looks cool

I tend to start every WOC army list with 2 units of 15 warriors.

Unit 1 - Sword and board with MOT
Unit 2 - MOK either dual weild or great weapons.

Has worked great for me.

What about halberds on your MoK warriors? 3 attacks at S5 I5 looks oh so tasty...

About finding some great stuff on the forums, you should probably make sure that any tactical / list building advise you read is from july 2010 or later. In july 2010 the 8th edition Rulebook was released, which changed the strength of unit types and upgrades quite a bit.

Hytanthas wrote:

cowpow16 wrote:Mot gives you a 6 up ward against everything with shields 5 up parry save in cc on top of the 3+ armor pretty good

I just looked that up and decided that that is nice to have. But will I be using a ward save that often in CC? (I truly don't know)

You probably, like myself, started with Warhammer 40k before starting a Warhammer Fantasy army. In 40k, you can only make a single save. This means invulnerable saves won't be used that often. In Fantasy, you can make ward saves after failing your armour save. So if your models have a ward save, they will probably be using it against any wound inflicted on your model which isn't saved by your armour. So a 6+ ward save will result in 1/6 less casualties.

I have two units of 24 WOC, both mark of Nurgle(theme army) one with shields, the other is known as the buzz-saw unit with my group, two hand weapons banner of frenzy, thats 4 attacks each. 6 wide 4 deep. I only play for fun but my friends hate this unit, it rips through anything.

kharn wrote:I have two units of 24 WOC, both mark of Nurgle(theme army) one with shields, the other is known as the buzz-saw unit with my group, two hand weapons banner of frenzy, thats 4 attacks each. 6 wide 4 deep. I only play for fun but my friends hate this unit, it rips through anything.

jw, why you would run MON on duel wield..talk about ripping through anything..try MOK with duel weild. In your formation, thats what like 12 extra attacks.

None, actually. Mark of Khorne gives the unit Frenzy, same as the banner. So in the end, they have the same number of attacks. 2 base, +1 for frenzy, +1 for AHW.

ah right, thank you. missed banner of frenzy.

Airmaniac wrote:About finding some great stuff on the forums, you should probably make sure that any tactical / list building advise you read is from july 2010 or later. In july 2010 the 8th edition Rulebook was released, which changed the strength of unit types and upgrades quite a bit.

Hytanthas wrote:

cowpow16 wrote:Mot gives you a 6 up ward against everything with shields 5 up parry save in cc on top of the 3+ armor pretty good

I just looked that up and decided that that is nice to have. But will I be using a ward save that often in CC? (I truly don't know)

You probably, like myself, started with Warhammer 40k before starting a Warhammer Fantasy army. In 40k, you can only make a single save. This means invulnerable saves won't be used that often. In Fantasy, you can make ward saves after failing your armour save. So if your models have a ward save, they will probably be using it against any wound inflicted on your model which isn't saved by your armour. So a 6+ ward save will result in 1/6 less casualties.

YOu would be correct. So this is good to know: that I get to make a ward save after an armor save.... This makes mark of Tzeench quite powerful... Interesting. The problem is that it cost twice that of slaanesh but it's still cheaper than Khorne or Nurgle. Would it be more cost effective to have a larger unit when you make a unit with MOT (18-24 because I like the whole 6 wide idea).

Well here is the thing warriors really dont fear much so thats not a huge worry and they are not meant to win com bat because of ranks they are supposed to go in there punch a lot of guys in the face and be like so we won.

Personally a tz follower and my meat grinder unit is 18 warriors mot halberds shield (yes shield is only for getting shot at i know they dont do anything for me in cc) rage banner and my bsb Mot shield amulet of endurance sword of might so he is str 6 and has an extra attack and a 3 up armor 4 up ward this unit eats almost everything it touches.

This sounds like a terribly hard unit to smash. So it's point cost effective to put expensive marks (MOT MOK MON) on a "small" unit? 18 isnt that small but I've seen 40+ units out there.

Mot is what 20 points so you make 2 ward saves and it's paid for boom.

Mon too expensive and not worth it in most cases because it only messes with them hitting you not you hitting them back.

Mok worth it but better with halberds for the extra attacks from the front rank.

Warriors shouldn't be run in larger groups 18 guys plus mark fc and a banner is between 350 and 400 points.

As a rule of thumb, the game is more fun if you (and your opponent) don't run anything over 400 points.
With units over 400 points, it's usually such a huge chunk of your force, that the game comes down to:

Can you Kill This?
Yes = I Lose.
No = I Win.

-Matt

For sure thats kind of how it goes and 1 warrior is the most beastly core unit imo as in 1 on 1 they are just crazy.

But ya keep em cheap that way they wont get nuked by magic and war machines.

Sorry to be a bit of topic but Matt how would you set up a unit of chosen? for say 2.5 or 3k?

cowpow16 wrote:For sure thats kind of how it goes and 1 warrior is the most beastly core unit imo as in 1 on 1 they are just crazy.

But ya keep em cheap that way they wont get nuked by magic and war machines.

Sorry to be a bit of topic but Matt how would you set up a unit of chosen? for say 2.5 or 3k?

I've swapped around 5 knights vs 12 chosen. Both pretty much do the same thing, giving me flanking support.
I don't go bigger than that, instead, taking multiple units.
The bulk of my chaos was always warriors and marauders.

-Matt

Ok thanks do you prefer marauders with flails or great weapons?

the MoS is ok, but with BSBs and WoC generally high leadership already it isn't a great mark. it was better when losing to Fear or Terror meant an auto-break.

MoT pays for itself quite quickly. 6+ all the time, 5+ in CC with a shield to the front.

the MoN is waaaaaay too expensive. if it was +1T then yeah, but right now it sucks.

the MoK is good, but is best with Halberds.

Grey Templar wrote:the MoS is ok, but with BSBs and WoC generally high leadership already it isn't a great mark. it was better when losing to Fear or Terror meant an auto-break.

MoT pays for itself quite quickly. 6+ all the time, 5+ in CC with a shield to the front.

the MoN is waaaaaay too expensive. if it was +1T then yeah, but right now it sucks.

the MoK is good, but is best with Halberds.

Leadership 8 isn't great. Taking a chaos lord for leadership 9 is expensive, and means you usually can't run a proper build with both wizard and the leadership.

Nurgle is over-priced, but not to the point of not being worth it. 2 points a model in small units (15 guys) with -1 to be shot at and -1 WS when attacked is pretty fair.
Tzeench is a better buy, but nurgle is way cooler.
For marauders, I like smaller units with flails (30 or less guys), or big units with great weapons (30+ guys).
While khorne and tzeench are obvious in the effect, hey I got 6 more attacks, or I made these 2 ward saves because of the mark, you don't see the obvious effect of slaanesh. You aren't taking the tests, so you don't notice the tests that you don't fail.
IMO, with testing for fear EVERY ROUND, slaanesh is as good now as it was before.
-Matt

the -1WS only applies when your enemy hits you. they keep their WS when you hit them so the effect is often minimal.

on regular warriors, it only has an effect on WS3 and WS6 enemies. all other WSs will remain uneffected. WS4 drops to WS3, but still needs 4s to hit. WS5 will drop to 4, but will still hit on 4+(and it doesn't drop the WS for your warriors to hit) WS7+ will still be hitting on 3s.

Yes but that -1 may help you against shooting like highly shooty armies like Dwarfs taking a -1 is always nice especially when they stand and shoot.

But over all still tz is nice and I agree you dont notice slaanesh all too much almost like a siege shield on a vindicator but still you can get more effective marks.

Grey Templar wrote:the -1WS only applies when your enemy hits you. they keep their WS when you hit them so the effect is often minimal.

on regular warriors, it only has an effect on WS3 and WS6 enemies. all other WSs will remain uneffected. WS4 drops to WS3, but still needs 4s to hit. WS5 will drop to 4, but will still hit on 4+(and it doesn't drop the WS for your warriors to hit) WS7+ will still be hitting on 3s.

And unless they FAQ'ed it recently, enemies who fail a fear test, become WS1, dropped to 0, and only hit you on 6's.
If you run both marauders and warriors of nurgle, you'll see a bonus against WS6, 5, 4, and 2. Just match up your units to theirs.

-Matt

It can only be dropped to 1 sadly says so in nurlge drops to a minimum of 1 so sadly it cant do anything too mean :( other wise nurgle knights would be soooo beastly.