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I once had a discussion with a GW staff member about who the hardest primarch was. I said that I thought Sanguinius was the most gifted at fisticuffs when the member of staff, suddenly full of excitement and enthusiasm, grabbed a copy of Collected Visions from the shelf and proceeded to open it at the page that shows Leman Russ with his bodyguard.

"You see, you see?" The member of staff said as he prodded the picture rapidly.

"What am I looking at?" I said "Are you saying that Leman Russ is the daddy?" I looked at the picture again and he did indeed look well 'ard. The staff member then went on to qualify his reasons for the claim which, to be completely honest, made an awful lot of to me.

"If you look closely" the man continued "you will notice that the body guard is actually BIGGER than Leman Russ" I simply blinked back at him which bade him to continue "He was only about six feet tall you see? In fact he was the shortest primarch of them all" The look of sheer delight on his face as he told me this was bloody priceless "The runt of the litter" he went on when I didn't say anything.

And then suddenly it all made sense to me. Every school I went to and including the army the shortest person was ALWAYS one of the most violent and aggressive.

The light bulb above my head must have flashed when I said "Bloody 'ell, yeah!" because the guy began clapping as though congratulating me on working it out.

But it got me to thinking, is there a primarch that is known to be the daddy of them all or not? I'm convinced that my black shirted friend was on to something so if nobody can give me a better example I'm staying with told Leman, coz it makes sense.

Well it does though doesn't it?

Alpharius is the shortest, it's been said numerous times. But, Leman was created pretty much to take down other Primarchs.

I don't think Russ was 6 feet...
That said he was among the top in fighting capability...

I assume that one of the deleted-from-history primarchs was too badass to be allowed to live once the emperor found him.

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:Alpharius is the shortest, it's been said numerous times.

I don't recall this ever being mentioned.

But, Leman was created pretty much to take down other Primarchs.

Aren't the Space Wolves the only ones to actually suggest that?


Personally, I'd like it if Angron was actually the most gifted at no-holds barred combat (whereas someone like the Lion might well be a the best swordsman, or Curze the best brawler). Of course, it all depends on the situation. A combat ground with lots of cover and ambush points would quite possibly favour Corax, whereas a more confined area would give the advantage to the other. It's never actually definitively said, though. Although I would rate Sanguinius quite highly as well.

I'm not sure who says it first but there are several mentions in Prospero Burns that it wasn't the first time the Wolves had fought other Astartes...

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:Alpharius is the shortest, it's been said numerous times.

I don't recall this ever being mentioned.

Alpharius is the only one who could impersonate 'regular' Marines with any level of success, I believe it's mentioned in Legion (if it is not, then accept my humble apologies, I am tired ).

But, Leman was created pretty much to take down other Primarchs.

Aren't the Space Wolves the only ones to actually suggest that?

Didn't Magnus, or the Emperor say something to that effect as well (if not, then again I apologise *slaps wrist*)?

purplefood wrote:I'm not sure who says it first but there are several mentions in Prospero Burns that it wasn't the first time the Wolves had fought other Astartes...

Were they the only ones though? It seems a bit unlikely that they'd be against another full strength Legion (or two, as the case may have been).

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:Alpharius is the only one who could impersonate 'regular' Marines with any level of success, I believe it's mentioned in Legion (if it is not, then accept my humble apologies, I am tired ).

Yeah, but wasn't that just because he had an Alpha Legionnaire (or more) who was (or were) very tall as well? I think he was said to be a head taller than any of Horus' Astartes when he was found, that the chances are that that was without power armour.

Didn't Magnus, or the Emperor say something to that effect as well (if not, then again I apologise *slaps wrist*)?

I honestly have no idea.

The Wolves were ruthless...
The point was they didn't particularly care about restraint they just go for it.

At any rate this is a discussion for a different thread methinks...

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

purplefood wrote:I'm not sure who says it first but there are several mentions in Prospero Burns that it wasn't the first time the Wolves had fought other Astartes...

Were they the only ones though? It seems a bit unlikely that they'd be against another full strength Legion (or two, as the case may have been).

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:Alpharius is the only one who could impersonate 'regular' Marines with any level of success, I believe it's mentioned in Legion (if it is not, then accept my humble apologies, I am tired ).

Yeah, but wasn't that just because he had an Alpha Legionnaire (or more) who was (or were) very tall as well? I think he was said to be a head taller than any of Horus' Astartes when he was found, that the chances are that that was without power armour.

Didn't Magnus, or the Emperor say something to that effect as well (if not, then again I apologise *slaps wrist*)?

I honestly have no idea.

Alpharius was a huge dude; all the Primarchs were. He was just small enough to be mistaken as a gigantic Space Marine, but a marine nonetheless. Its all in Legion.

DEUS VULT wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

purplefood wrote:I'm not sure who says it first but there are several mentions in Prospero Burns that it wasn't the first time the Wolves had fought other Astartes...

Were they the only ones though? It seems a bit unlikely that they'd be against another full strength Legion (or two, as the case may have been).

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:Alpharius is the only one who could impersonate 'regular' Marines with any level of success, I believe it's mentioned in Legion (if it is not, then accept my humble apologies, I am tired ).

Yeah, but wasn't that just because he had an Alpha Legionnaire (or more) who was (or were) very tall as well? I think he was said to be a head taller than any of Horus' Astartes when he was found, that the chances are that that was without power armour.

Didn't Magnus, or the Emperor say something to that effect as well (if not, then again I apologise *slaps wrist*)?

I honestly have no idea.

Alpharius was a huge dude; all the Primarchs were. He was just small enough to be mistaken as a gigantic Space Marine, but a marine nonetheless. Its all in Legion.

Pretty much!

"Who's the daddy?"

lol nice phrasing

IMO, it would be either Russ or Angron. In the HH series they are the only ones that seem to earn respect from other primarchs thanks to their sheer brutality and physical prowess.

I remember reading several times about Angron being described as a "butcher" or a "brute" by other primarchs, while Russ was said to be the "animal", the "beast". These words were sometimes said in a degrading way, but they always conveyed a hidden respect (I would even say fear).

So Angron and Russ would be my pick.

Well, Leman Russ did kill a titan by himself, in hand to foot combat.

But Lion also did defeat Leman Russ in a fist fight.

Leman russ was the most ferocious and tenacious primarch; if your looking for the toughest in terms of endurance, i think it's puturabo. He's always made out to be a walking tank, and he just strikes me as being extremely unkillable.

The shortest people are always the meanest because they're compensating, chihuahuas are meaners than mastiffs.

Mr Nobody wrote:Leman russ was the most ferocious and tenacious primarch; if your looking for the toughest in terms of endurance, i think it's puturabo. He's always made out to be a walking tank, and he just strikes me as being extremely unkillable.

The shortest people are always the meanest because they're compensating, chihuahuas are meaners than mastiffs.

No love for Montarion being tenacious and tough?

if i remember legion correctly is Alpharius a twin and i think sangunius would be the toughest because he fought horus in his damon form and struck him

I think it's pretty sad that everyone is saying Russ.

Did we forget that Magnus was kicking Russ's ass until Russ(in a skillful display of random flailing) accidentally poked him in the eye?(reference: A Thousand Sons)

Did we also forget that Magnus was a daemon primarch (Or at least powered up by Tzeentch) at that point and after that got trounced by Russ to the point he ran away?
At any rate there were some primarchs that were good at one-on-one fighting and others that weren't.
The ones that weren't tended to specialise in areas other than warfare which kinda balanced them out as leaders.

He didn't "run away" per say according to the book. He was merely stalling to pull the remainder of his legion away from the fight, as it was a fight he wanted to avoid in the first place (Knowing that it was Tzeenth's plan to have both legions cripple each other).

He didn't want to hurt Russ since he wanted the wolves to be able to aid in the upcoming treachery of Horus.

DEUS VULT wrote:

Mr Nobody wrote:Leman russ was the most ferocious and tenacious primarch; if your looking for the toughest in terms of endurance, i think it's puturabo. He's always made out to be a walking tank, and he just strikes me as being extremely unkillable.

The shortest people are always the meanest because they're compensating, chihuahuas are meaners than mastiffs.

No love for Montarion being tenacious and tough?

I totally forgot about him, he drinks poison like water, that's pretty tough.

Amanax wrote:He didn't "run away" per say according to the book. He was merely stalling to pull the remainder of his legion away from the fight, as it was a fight he wanted to avoid in the first place (Knowing that it was Tzeenth's plan to have both legions cripple each other).

He didn't want to hurt Russ since he wanted the wolves to be able to aid in the upcoming treachery of Horus.

So he then leaves and joins Horus int he Siege of Terra...
The Heresy seems way too complex for its own good...

About the magnus vs russ argument, Magnus was facing Leman russ and his armies. I distinctly remember him going moses on everyone while fighting Leman russ.

In a no-rules fight to the death, I'd say Magnus every time. You just don't mess with that powerful a psyker unless you pull a wuss move like Russ did and bring loads of untouchables to the fight

The way the title was phrased I was afraid you were asking who their father was

But for toughest?
Sanguinius

Not only did he fight for an extremely long amount of time, single-handedly, with broken legs, he broke Ka'banda's back over his knee.

Ya know, with his broken leg. Pretty bad ass.

He then went on to fight Horus, with no rest in between.

Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:The way the title was phrased I was afraid you were asking who their father was

But for toughest?
Sanguinius

Not only did he fight for an extremely long amount of time, single-handedly, with broken legs, he broke Ka'banda's back over his knee.

Ya know, with his broken leg. Pretty bad ass.

He then went on to fight Horus, with no rest in between.

Now I have an image of sanguinius sitting there hitting people, "come here so I can beat you!"

Erm, Much as i love Sanguinius (and i do, hes my pick for hardest - he flies, try fighting that! ), he was wounded by Ka'Bandha when the BA were ambushed near the start of the HH. Not on Terra, sorry. Although i dont know how long there was between the ambush and then the battle for Terra. He did still fight and hold the Eternity Gate single-handed which is bad- enough for me.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sanguinius

@BBL
Sanguinius had his legs crushed on the world of signus prime. The bloodthirster crushed his legs and then flew off after sanguinius passed out. On his way to terra his legs had time to heal and then when he faced him the second time he broke his back over his knees. He didnt fight him again with crushed legs twice.

Ka'banda broke his legs at the ambush. Sangy broke his back, with the broken legs (I believe)

If someone can photoshop a picture of Sangy meme style with the text
"Ka'Banda broke my legs

I broke his back "
I would be your best friend/ give you a cookie

Roboute Guilliman. With a sissy name like that, you GOTTA be tough...

Y'all ever hear that old Johnny Cash song "A Boy Named Sue?" Yeah, that's Guilliman.

I happen to be my shortest friend and I'm the calmest of my...wait nvm im short violent and angsty!