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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Terminator armor barely provides protection, so I don't think you can argue power armor is good enough, especially for just even one or two Stealers to overwhelm them in a tunnel.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in es
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets




Vigo. Spain.

How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Good story - with beta play test complete if only we could get some faction rules for Sisters on Vigilis, and Kill Team..... and....

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Galas wrote:
How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)


In previous editions, that is why Genestealers' melee attacks had rending, so they could chew through marines and even light vehicles. They basically have the same rule now (where 6 to wound is AP -4, which chews through Terminators and Marines like butter).
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





The Shire(s)

They usually don't though? Look at the Blood Angels Space Hulk Terminators- you can see deep scratches and gouges on many of the models, but it is clear that Terminator armour provides protection and slows down rending claws. Occasionally it punches straight through, but not often.

Power armour will do the same, just less effectively. But we are talking in a melee, the armour only has to slow the genestealer down long enough for three other Sisters to stick bayonets in it- thats less than a second.

Also, Genestealer claws haven't ignored armour outright for at least 5 editions- they are clearly meant to be sharp but not all-penetrating like power power weapons. Rules don't correlate great with fluff, but Genestealers have never been given the ability to ignore power armour routinely, only with lucky blows. A lot of fluff is blatant hyperbole, especially Codex fluff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/14 17:33:32


 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

 Galas wrote:
How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)


It does in the fuff - except where it doesn't - constrast stories where terminators defeat hundreds of Genestealers in close quarters to the ones where they are slaughtered.

The rules they can do it but not always.

Sisters also have divine protection


"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader




 Galas wrote:
How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)


The setting and game are not really related beyond proper nouns. Fluff !=Rules. What works in a story doesn't in a game, and vice versa.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Repentia Mistress





Kansas

 Mr Morden wrote:


Sisters also have divine protection



That's it right there.

I have an old White Dwarf with regular Power Armor marine stats for Space Hulk... this discussion makes me want to convert the stats to Sisters

I have to say I like the stories we're getting for Vigilus overall. I wasn't planning on getting Shadow Spear but I'm leaning toward it now.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





The nuns also have a fetish for flame based weapons, something that genestealers really dislike with a passion.
These are some of the best weapons for tunnel warfare aswell.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Mr Morden wrote:
 Galas wrote:
How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)


It does in the fuff - except where it doesn't - constrast stories where terminators defeat hundreds of Genestealers in close quarters to the ones where they are slaughtered.

The rules they can do it but not always.

Sisters also have divine protection


Sorry but which stories have Terminators defeating that many Genestealers in close combat?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
 Galas wrote:
How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)


It does in the fuff - except where it doesn't - constrast stories where terminators defeat hundreds of Genestealers in close quarters to the ones where they are slaughtered.

The rules they can do it but not always.

Sisters also have divine protection


Sorry but which stories have Terminators defeating that many Genestealers in close combat?


Deathstorm by Josh Reynolds for one

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 Mr Morden wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
 Galas wrote:
How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)


It does in the fuff - except where it doesn't - constrast stories where terminators defeat hundreds of Genestealers in close quarters to the ones where they are slaughtered.

The rules they can do it but not always.

Sisters also have divine protection


Sorry but which stories have Terminators defeating that many Genestealers in close combat?


Deathstorm by Josh Reynolds for one
You mean the one where they start with six Terminators and then are down two by the end of like the fifth chapter?

5250 pts
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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/14/mar-14-war-zone-vigilus-abaddon-vs-calgargw-homepage-post-2/

It's interesting... I think the model for Abby looks incredible but the artwork on this page is mediocre whereas with Primarneus Calgar the painting looks great but the new model is meh.

Spoiler:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/14 22:36:51


   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
 Galas wrote:
How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)


It does in the fuff - except where it doesn't - constrast stories where terminators defeat hundreds of Genestealers in close quarters to the ones where they are slaughtered.

The rules they can do it but not always.

Sisters also have divine protection


Sorry but which stories have Terminators defeating that many Genestealers in close combat?


Deathwing, for one.
Its... kinda the origin of the whole thing. The squad takes on the entire cult (and lots of stealers) in the new industrial city to save the Amer-Indian tribes that inhabit the Dark Angel's recruitment world.
The Deathwing has bone armour to honor that handful of terminators.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/14 22:39:44


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




The Void

 warboss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/14/mar-14-war-zone-vigilus-abaddon-vs-calgargw-homepage-post-2/

It's interesting... I think the model for Abby looks incredible but the artwork on this page is mediocre whereas with Primarneus Calgar the painting looks great but the new model is meh.

Spoiler:



It's because the one of Abbadon is a small part of a large battle scene, so there's a lot less detail and focus on him. Whereas Calgar is the full focus of the other piece.

Always 1 on the crazed roll. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
 warboss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/14/mar-14-war-zone-vigilus-abaddon-vs-calgargw-homepage-post-2/

It's interesting... I think the model for Abby looks incredible but the artwork on this page is mediocre whereas with Primarneus Calgar the painting looks great but the new model is meh.

Spoiler:



It's because the one of Abbadon is a small part of a large battle scene, so there's a lot less detail and focus on him. Whereas Calgar is the full focus of the other piece.


I don't think that's it. I think it has more to do with the styles of both the art and the figs. In both cases, I prefer the more realistic/less cartoony version (in abby's case the model and for primarneus the pic)

   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
 Galas wrote:
How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)


It does in the fuff - except where it doesn't - constrast stories where terminators defeat hundreds of Genestealers in close quarters to the ones where they are slaughtered.

The rules they can do it but not always.

Sisters also have divine protection


Sorry but which stories have Terminators defeating that many Genestealers in close combat?


Deathstorm by Josh Reynolds for one
You mean the one where they start with six Terminators and then are down two by the end of like the fifth chapter?


I think its that one - several stand back to back killing whole swarms of Stealers by about the middle?

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 warboss wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
 warboss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/14/mar-14-war-zone-vigilus-abaddon-vs-calgargw-homepage-post-2/

It's interesting... I think the model for Abby looks incredible but the artwork on this page is mediocre whereas with Primarneus Calgar the painting looks great but the new model is meh.

Spoiler:



It's because the one of Abbadon is a small part of a large battle scene, so there's a lot less detail and focus on him. Whereas Calgar is the full focus of the other piece.


I don't think that's it. I think it has more to do with the styles of both the art and the figs. In both cases, I prefer the more realistic/less cartoony version (in abby's case the model and for primarneus the pic)




I'd say it's because the Abby art work looks to replicate his model.
Calgars one is purely artwork
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 DanielFM wrote:
We don't want boring, uninspired, redundant Vanguard units. We want something with a "wow!" factor. Something that plucks the gaps in the severely limited Primaris range in options and rules.
CSM players ask for Dark Mechanicus for years and get it. Loyalist get models no-one asked for, instead.

Woh, people playing a faction that has literally everything, and that is getting a second, slightly bigger scale version of everything, get models that no-one asked for. Maybe it's because no-one ask for anything, because they already have everything, and they should just stop getting models, just a thought.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/14/tales-from-vigilus-14-beneath-the-surface/

Some wandering SoB and a Lone Space Wolf cruely abuse innocent people just defending their homes

Incredible, the Sisters are almost portrayed as more competent than the Wolf! Unexpected and very nice.


Am I the only one who thinks Guilliman-lite Calgar is very unnecessary now that we have regular Guilliman and that they could easily kill him off this campaign? Though in that case, why create a new model?

Feminism is good. Racism is bad.
Sabbat-pattern helmets best helmets.
MER IL ET FOU!!! 
   
Made in fr
Lurking Gaunt



France

Calgar is not unecessary now : he is killable.
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader




WhiteDog wrote:
Calgar is not unecessary now : he is killable.

But they just gave him a new model, so his plot armor is refreshed.
His period of imminent mortality has passed. Even the Dark Imperium novel suggested he had outlived his time and purpose, and the re-appearance of Guilliman diminished him and reminded him that he wasn't adequately keeping up with his duties any longer..
But now that he's gotten a phoenix-like rejuvenation, that's all been swept aside. He can now go falcon punch multiple Avatars.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/14 23:35:35


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Warlord Queek got a new model as did a few skaven characters and he got his head caved in.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Fargo, ND USA

nagash42 wrote:
Warlord Queek got a new model as did a few skaven characters and he got his head caved in.


Queek got a new model an entire edition of the game before dying, so not the best example.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/15 00:20:58


You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader




nagash42 wrote:
Warlord Queek got a new model as did a few skaven characters and he got his head caved in.


At the literal end of the world. Rocks fell, everybody died. Eons later some came back as gods or randomly alive (Gotrek, sigh) in a completely different setting. Queek dying is like applying white-out to a word in a book about to be tossed on a bonfire.
----

The time to do that in 40K would have been when they ripped the galaxy in half, or during the century+ of crusading or, I'll say again, when he was made redundant to the narrative by God-Boss showing up.
Not *after* supercharging him and placing him as central to the Imperium side of the current story-line.
There could have been a lot of drama or gravitas to his death in front of his gene-father OR his successor (or what symbolism his death would have meant to the chapter or the Imperium as a whole), there is a lot less post-power up and renewal of purpose.

It reminds me a lot of Stargate. Early on there was a lot of meaning in killing a goa'uld. Then they started mass-cloning super-goa'ulds in literal plot armor, and it meant a lot less. Same principle applies here- he's now just an even more bigger primaris. He's in charge, but killing him doesn't matter- there's fifty-eleven just like him waiting to stand up.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/15 02:00:28


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Voss wrote:
nagash42 wrote:
Warlord Queek got a new model as did a few skaven characters and he got his head caved in.


At the literal end of the world. Rocks fell, everybody died. Eons later some came back as gods or randomly alive (Gotrek, sigh) in a completely different setting. Queek dying is like applying white-out to a word in a book about to be tossed on a bonfire.
.


To be fair, Gotrek coming back makes a lot more sense than most of the survivors in AoS. He was left in the Realm of Chaos. Tyrion and Teclis both died, but they somehow became Gods. Balthasar Gelt is now a stormcast. Not to mention the Mortarchs and vampires who also have pretty conclusive deaths.

Back on topic, what are the chances that they'll just go after someone like Cato or any other Ultramarine with an old model? All the suspense of killing a named character, getting rid of an old model, and people that bought Marneus probably won't throw a fit about having their new HQ died.
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin





4th Obelisk On The Right

Started to build my Shadowspear goods. One thing that people might want to know is that the CSM are about the same size as the DV set CSM. They might be 0.5mm bigger. But definitely smaller than the plague marines.

My eyeballed measurements might be off but it looks like the DV CSM will indistinguishable and the special DV Exalted Champion model is definitely the same size as the new guys.

Edit: they also appear to be noticeably bigger than the most recent tactical marines. Probably about the size of the Deathwatch marines.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/15 04:41:33


 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 BrotherGecko wrote:
Started to build my Shadowspear goods. One thing that people might want to know is that the CSM are about the same size as the DV set CSM. They might be 0.5mm bigger. But definitely smaller than the plague marines.

My eyeballed measurements might be off but it looks like the DV CSM will indistinguishable and the special DV Exalted Champion model is definitely the same size as the new guys.

Edit: they also appear to be noticeably bigger than the most recent tactical marines. Probably about the size of the Deathwatch marines.


how do they compare tothe MK3 and MK4 armor models?

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin





4th Obelisk On The Right

BrianDavion wrote:
 BrotherGecko wrote:
Started to build my Shadowspear goods. One thing that people might want to know is that the CSM are about the same size as the DV set CSM. They might be 0.5mm bigger. But definitely smaller than the plague marines.

My eyeballed measurements might be off but it looks like the DV CSM will indistinguishable and the special DV Exalted Champion model is definitely the same size as the new guys.

Edit: they also appear to be noticeably bigger than the most recent tactical marines. Probably about the size of the Deathwatch marines.


how do they compare tothe MK3 and MK4 armor models?


Spending a bit more time looking at them. I'd say they are close to a head taller than the HH mk3-4 armors with the mk3 keeping close in bulk. But it is hard for me to fully tell because my mk3-4s are on cork enhanced bases so they are a big taller.

The DV CSM actually compare mostly by how upright they stand. The DV CSM lord is about the same size.

One thing though is that the proportions are much better and smoother looking. So the thighs look better and the forearms look less squat.

 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 BrotherGecko wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 BrotherGecko wrote:
Started to build my Shadowspear goods. One thing that people might want to know is that the CSM are about the same size as the DV set CSM. They might be 0.5mm bigger. But definitely smaller than the plague marines.

My eyeballed measurements might be off but it looks like the DV CSM will indistinguishable and the special DV Exalted Champion model is definitely the same size as the new guys.

Edit: they also appear to be noticeably bigger than the most recent tactical marines. Probably about the size of the Deathwatch marines.


how do they compare tothe MK3 and MK4 armor models?


Spending a bit more time looking at them. I'd say they are close to a head taller than the HH mk3-4 armors with the mk3 keeping close in bulk. But it is hard for me to fully tell because my mk3-4s are on cork enhanced bases so they are a big taller.

The DV CSM actually compare mostly by how upright they stand. The DV CSM lord is about the same size.

One thing though is that the proportions are much better and smoother looking. So the thighs look better and the forearms look less squat.


yeah just trying to figure out if I should risk snagging some MK3 and 4 Kits for my infantry or wait for the new CSM ones. sounds like I'll wanna wait

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife





Leicester

 Mr Morden wrote:
Good story - with beta play test complete if only we could get some faction rules for Sisters on Vigilis, and Kill Team..... and....


Given that it’s the second story in a row with Sisters, I did wonder if GW are going to pull a fast one and drop a new kit early. Assuming that the basic kit will be pretty much the same as the metal models, it’s probably the easiest to get out and wouldn’t require new rules. Would be a great way to further build the hype and get a lot of players on the thin end of the wedge (after all, it’s only one box of models for Kill Team, isn’t it?! )

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 Zed wrote:
*All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
 
   
 
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