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If a trukk has been immobolized the previous turn, and then suffers a Kareen! result. Does the trukk start up again and move?

The game I play we ruled that it does move since it's orky and anything can happen.

This is actually kind of a tough one.

BRB states that an immobilized vehicle may not move for the rest of the game.

Ork Codex has the possiblity of rolling a Kareen! result on any Destroyed - Wrecked or Explodes result.

IMO, I think this is a case of specific>general. If an immobilzed vehicle suffers a Kareen! result, it would move the 3D6 inches.

Pretty much what Frostreaver said. Specific over General.

If you want to imagine what happens, the trukk loses its tires, then suddenly a strike to the gas tank causes an explosion underneath the trukk, flinging it through the air (3d6 randomly) before landing somewhere and exploding! ORKY!

No, its not a tough one.

The Trukk moves "as far as possible". How far is it possible for an immobilised trukk to move? 0"

Yep, missed that detail; Nos is right in that regard.

Ooh, good point. My bad

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, its not a tough one.

The Trukk moves "as far as possible". How far is it possible for an immobilised trukk to move? 0"

This is a miss Quote, This is a Special Rule and it does move. You dont know if there is rocket in the back of the trukk that got shot and it is making the trukk move. My point is this is RAI and RAW. Tell me or show me where it states other wise. The Quote says The shot sends the trukk out of controll. Move the trukk 3d6 as far as possible in a random direction[u](the Ork Player chooses if he rolls a Hit on the scatter dice). The apply the Kaboom result above. If the Trukk would kareen into enemy models or terrain, stop it 1" away.

Sorry, how is it a misquote?

You just restated what I said, and you position is not RAW. SOrry, it just isnt.

Move the trukk 3D6" as far as possible. How far is it possible for an immobilised trukk to move? 0"

"Cannot move" overrides "moves as far as possible". If you think otherwise, up to you to prove it. You cant, but give it a go.

The rule states "Move the Trukk 3D6 as far as possible..." The "as far as possible" is referring to the distance of the 3 dice, with consideration of what might be in the way, i.e, an enemy unit.

I'm going to say that Specific > General still applies.

"The shot sends the Trukk out of control." The rule doesn't say it was the momentum of the vehicle that was causing it to move. The blast could be pushing it, rolling it, etc.

I can not move, now I'm going to move as far as possible.

Rottooth wrote:The rule states "Move the Trukk 3D6 as far as possible..." The "as far as possible" is referring to the distance of the 3 dice, with consideration of what might be in the way, i.e, an enemy unit.

So you accept that it can move 0", if already in contact with a unit?

So a rule stating you cannot move within 1" of an enemy model still applies. Thats a BRB rule. The rule that you cannot move through other impassable terrain still applies. Thats a BRB rule.

So why are you suddenly ignoring the BRB rule that you cannot move if you are immobilised?

Rottooth wrote:I'm going to say that Specific > General still applies.

Yes, it does. What is more specific - a trukk trynig to move 3D6", or an IMMOBILISED trukk trying to move 3D6"?

Rottooth wrote:"The shot sends the Trukk out of control." The rule doesn't say it was the momentum of the vehicle that was causing it to move. The blast could be pushing it, rolling it, etc.

Fluff. Except for one instance (plasma syphon) fluff does not define rules.

Wow, amazing that people can come to the conclusion that an immobilized vehicle can move.

Take a look at the rules for the Kareen! and it tells you what to do if something gets in the way. Guess what, you didn't move the maximum distance on the 3d6 because a rule contradicted Kareen! The immobilized rule contradicts the Kareen! rule, and here's how. Kareen says MOVE the vehicle the distance rolled, it doesn't say pick up the vehicle and place it the number of inches rolled in the direction indicated, it specifically states move. As we all know the Immobilized result for vehicle damage says, "It may not move the rest of the game." You're trying to move a vehicle that cannot move.

Surely an immobilised vehicle is one which cannot move under its own normal power... however if massive rocket is stuck in the back it would be able to move because the rocket would push it forwards/backwards/up/down wherever and therefore the trukk could move...

Plux - yet it still has to follow the BRB rules on moving. As I pointed out.

If you cannot move you cannot move (you can be moved, but that isnt happening in this case) and therefore you stay still.

Fluff, except for one exception, is not rules.

Pluxtheduck wrote:Surely an immobilised vehicle is one which cannot move under its own normal power... however if massive rocket is stuck in the back it would be able to move because the rocket would push it forwards/backwards/up/down wherever and therefore the trukk could move...

The problem with that statement is that you, and the other people, are inferring that it is something pushing the trukk. When you point out specific RULES not fluff that say regardless of the vehicle being immobilized, then there might be something to that side of the argument. If they had said in the rule, role 3d6 and the scatter die, then pick up the vehicle model and place it that many inches in the indicated direction I would agree and you could make that argument. However since it says to move the vehicle, immobilized results prevent that particular string of events from playing out.

Assuming that an immobalized trukk cannot Kareen, what happens when a un-damaged trukk suffers both an immobalized and a wrecked in the same shooting?

It cannot move, so doesnt.
Not a tricky one there...

The wording of Kareen! says that the Trukk is sent out of control so that sounds like if it is immobilized it can't really go out of control and start moving. Then again there is the point of codex wins the rulebook. I'd still say that an immobilized vehicle cannot move in any way.

No, codex does not override the rulebook.

Specific overrides general. there is NOTHING in the Kareen! rule, absolutely nothing whatso-fething-ever, that overrides the very specific: immoblised vehicles cannot move.

Jordan - still waiting on your proof, or your response to my supposed "misquote" (which your own post proved was no such thing...)

If you are going to argue "general over specific" in this case, let me just point out that "immobilized" is a heck of a lot more specific that "may not move into or over enemy units" or even more generalised than the recently FAQ'ed "under no circumstances may a unit leave the board unless specifically allowed to".

The thing here is the Kareen allows for a limitation in the length of movement, and immobilised puts up a limitation to the length of any movement. (Also, according to the BRB, immobilization can be due to just about any reason such as losing the wheels, and any force which is capable of moving an Ork trukk 3D6 inches without the trukk itself doing the movement is more likely to smash the trukk into smithereens)

We also have to keep in mind that this is an ork trukk, not a rhino, or a landraider. Trukks are cobbled together with anyhting, its also orky for things just explode for the fun of it.

With this understanding, im saying that since the ramshakle rules says you roll 3d6 you move as far as possible related to thosae dice. This can be explained by a gas line going, or the engine exploding.

It can be argued that it doesn't even drive on the ground, since with the scatter role it is possible for the vehicle to move horizontally.

I think it should move, simply because that fits orks so very well. The tank has been immobilized, but something happens and it goes shooting off, presumably with boys and grots hanging to the sides, howling

It does break some rules about moving when you can't(you normally can't move during enemy shooting, while immobilized, etc) but a result can make it happen.

-cgmckenzie

Although Nos seems a bit moody, he is correct. Immobolized vehicles cannot move, at all, period. Moving as far as possible when you cannot move is what?

KingCracker wrote:Although Nos seems a bit moody, he is correct. Immobolized vehicles cannot move, at all, period. Moving as far as possible when you cannot move is what?

Yes he is, lets look at the Karren result RAW (specific over general)

1- The shot sends the Trukk out of Control.

Here, I think we all agree (everyone that drove a car at least) that you ahve to be moving to be out fo control. It does not say smoething blows behidn the trukk making it fly trough the air and landing furhter. It specifies that it goes out of control. So a stopped trukk gors out of control does not move.

2- Move the Trukk 3D6'' as far as possible in a random directon( The Ork player chooses if he rolls a Hit on the Scatter Dice)

Here again, the RAW does not say as far as possible according the the dice. But as far as apossible according to what the trukk can go. The next line will emphasise that part.

- Then apply Kaboom. If the Trukk would Kareen into enemy models or terrain, stop it 1'' away.

Here it is clearly said that the normal rules still applies since terrain will stop it so as enemy models. IN other words, this contradict the fluff versions of the Trukk flying trough the air since it is getting stopped by the 1st terran/ enemy units it encounter. If it was flying trough the air, it would do like JI and move over the terrain or enemy unit and not stop at it. Also, nowehere in the Kareen rule does it say the trukk move as far as possible according the the 3D6. The 3rd part clearly says that enemy models and terrain can stop it. Why not immobilized.

My 2 cents on that.

The rule states... The shot sends the trukk out of controll. Move the trukk 3d6 as far as possible in a random direction.... The rule tells you to MOVE the trukk 3d6 as far as possible. Where does it say it cannot move. I know how immobilised works. In this chase the rule is telling you to roll the dice since some weird gak just happen, like you shooting at a Trukk that is immobilised or a rocket going off in the bed. It does not say how the trukk is moving other then The shot sends the trukk out of control. This is where i say you move the trukk since there is a reason why it would move with out moving the trukk by its own wheels.

jordan23ryan wrote:The rule states... The shot sends the trukk out of controll. Move the trukk 3d6 as far as possible in a random direction.... The rule tells you to MOVE the trukk 3d6 as far as possible. Where does it say it cannot move. I know how immobilised works. In this chase the rule is telling you to roll the dice since some weird gak just happen, like you shooting at a Trukk that is immobilised or a rocket going off in the bed. It does not say how the trukk is moving other then The shot sends the trukk out of control. This is where i say you move the trukk since there is a reason why it would move with out moving the trukk by its own wheels.

Now you are repeating your self.

Can you please counter argue this:

The trukk MOVE AS FAR AS POSSIBLE. This is RAW.

Immobilised trukks can move to a maximum of 0''.

Also it is stated that units and terrain stops it. So RAW says that if something prevents the trukk from moving the total 3D6 range, it must stop don't you agree (if you don't, please read the last sentence of the Kareeen result description). THey gave as example terrain and units. Why would immobilized result not stop the trukk since it is but another factor that prevents the trukk from moving a FULL 3d6??


** thx jidmah, my error, I really did misunderstood RAI, made some ressearch to really understand it, edited

Objection. You don't know RAI, it might as well go the other way. Agree on the RAW thing, though I don't like it.

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, its not a tough one.

The Trukk moves "as far as possible". How far is it possible for an immobilised trukk to move? 0"

The Rule----- The shot sends the trukk out of controll. Move the trukk 3d6 as far as possible in a random direction[u](the Ork Player chooses if he rolls a Hit on the scatter dice). The apply the Kaboom result above. If the Trukk would kareen into enemy models or terrain, stop it 1" away.


What the rules says and what you said are different. How? Read it ! The Rule says MOVE THE TRUKK "as far as possible" . How you wrote it is misconstrued so you could get your point across.
You are saying The Trukk moves "as far as possible" when what it reallys says is to MOVE THE TRUKK 3d6 as far as possible. There is a difference of someone telling you, you can move and to Move.......... ? So this goes back to why i say the trukk can move because you have no idea why it is moving it just is !




It does not say ...

The trukk MOVE AS FAR AS POSSIBLE.

It says Move the trukk 3d6 as far as Possible.

The terrain/models that would be stopping it are the limiting factors, not the immobilized state of the trukk. The 'as far as possible' says you can't randomly choose to stop it in the middle of the 3D6" to blow up next to a juicy target, you must keep going until you hit the limit of the distance rolled or you run into a model/terrain.

-cgmckenzie

Jordan - you move the trukk
An immobilised trukk CANNOT MOVE

Please, find some rules to back your position. You have none so far