Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Really? +1 is too complicated? I can understand flat damage being great and all, but as it is right now, every single model we have, no matter what they are armed with, has a damn good chance of one-shotting an infantry character that isn't named Guilliman. Our bas infantry can do 6 damage with spears or swords, or 9 with the right flag, and another 1 with Miseracordia. I'd take the potential over a flat 4 damage if the attacks both go through.

But mileage may vary. I'm not the best player, but I enjoy making my opponent think about where they put their characters, or I might kill them with Terminators, or just a single Custodian guard with sword/shield.

I meant the two different ways of using the axe were too complicated, sorry.

We do have a Warlord Trait that allows damage re-roll, but just for the Captain who is your Warlord. It'd be great if they just turned that into an aura.

So this just me spitballing ideas but I was thinking about how you could make our guardian spears more flexible and interesting.

Now since all our guys are individual warriors in the fluff how about this:

I think it would be interesting if you could choose between two profiles for every model in the unit every time the unit fights. I know that sounds tedious to choose for every model, but we never really have a lot of models in our units anyway.

so you would have choose between these two profiles:
Guardian Spear (sweeping strike)
S: user; AP:-2; D: 1
every time the user chooses to fight with this profile, every attack made with this weapon counts as 2 attacks.

Guardian Spear (piercing strike)
S:+1; AP:-3; D: 2

It would make our spear guys better at horde clearing with the sweeping strike profile, which would give every guy 6 attacks basically. It would also make them more consistent at killing things like multi wound elite infantry with the second profile in my opinion

Mixing is fairly minor thing since needs to be two vastly different foe to matter.

Basically w2 t5 models use big strike, against anything else 2 attack thing.

It seems to me that our Sword/Spear/Axe weapons are meant to mimic Sword/Axe/Fist weapons of Space Marines (even capping us at S8 on the Fist equivalent). GW probably wants to keep any changes to following that theme (nevermind Aquillons since FW initially conceptualized those).

Audustum wrote:
It seems to me that our Sword/Spear/Axe weapons are meant to mimic Sword/Axe/Fist weapons of Space Marines (even capping us at S8 on the Fist equivalent). GW probably wants to keep any changes to following that theme (nevermind Aquillons since FW initially conceptualized those).

That's a fair assumption I suppose, though if it were really the case, it would be a really quite boring design philosophy. The custodes don't have the model range or equipment flexibility Space marines have, also they are depicted in the fluff as singular martial paragons, the likes of which you won't find anywhere else in the imperium. So at least give them some flexibility when using the few weapon option that they have. Im not saying my idea would be the best solution for this, but I'd like some thing added.

Also while we're at it, there has been some talk that castellan axes should be flat 3 damage and while I'd freaking love that as a custodes player, I am not sure if that would border on overpowered. I'd like however for wardens and allarus terminators to have an innate rule to re-roll damage. And if that would prove to be too powerful in playtesting, at least slap that rule to a character as an aura, as has been discussed already. And I am not even talking about a named character...give generic terminator shield captains that ability or something, then you'd actually have a reason to run them in your lists instead of only bike captains and trajann because they are just simply better.

So in my extremely limited experience, our biggest threat is Melee Hordes (Zerg rush) or Smite Spam (1k Sons, GK) or Gunlines (Guard, admech, SMs) I don't see how adding flat damage or damage re-rolls helps us defeat any major weakness. Right now a full squad of Blood letters and Gaunts can drop any squad I can put on the table in melee. That's insane. Flat 2 damage won't help that. Flat 2 damage and rerolls are only good against elite armies, ( Not even a little problem for us). We need to be able to generate more attacks against hordes, and have more shooty guns. I think spears/swords need to be assault 2, and axes need assault 3.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So in my extremely limited experience, our biggest threat is Melee Hordes (Zerg rush) or Smite Spam (1k Sons, GK) or Gunlines (Guard, admech, SMs) I don't see how adding flat damage or damage re-rolls helps us defeat any major weakness. Right now a full squad of Blood letters and Gaunts can drop any squad I can put on the table in melee. That's insane. Flat 2 damage won't help that. Flat 2 damage and rerolls are only good against elite armies, ( Not even a little problem for us). We need to be able to generate more attacks against hordes, and have more shooty guns. I think spears/swords need to be assault 2, and axes need assault 3.

So thats what I was proposing. With the two profiles to the guardian spear you could either choose to get 6 "weaker" attacks per dude or 3 stronger attacks with flat 2 damage depending on what enemy you are going to face.

A big blob of bloodletters of khorne berserkers killing basically any infantry we have on the charge is another matter entirely. Getting the charge is simply too crucial to melee combat outcomes in this edition. But yes, our guys don't feel as tough as they should.

I think if we had stronger shooting, not at all related to damage, but to shots, we could survive the ensuing charge better.

One other thing is any racial ability that allows mobs to "fight first". So the Blood letter thing is because they can charge first, and fight first, before we've even swung an axe we're dead. If we had a "This unit always fights first no matter what" ability it would go a long way to dissuading horde rushes against us. But I also like your extra attacks.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I think if we had stronger shooting, not at all related to damage, but to shots, we could survive the ensuing charge better.

One other thing is any racial ability that allows mobs to "fight first". So the Blood letter thing is because they can charge first, and fight first, before we've even swung an axe we're dead. If we had a "This unit always fights first no matter what" ability it would go a long way to dissuading horde rushes against us. But I also like your extra attacks.

We do. It's Stooping Dive. Fights before charges. Jetbikes with Hurricane Bolters are the horde answer.

I meant for our Infantry. This whole time we've been talking Infantry. And I agree, Jetbikes are the answer to everything. So, when they are inevitably nerfed by GW for being too OP, the other 95% of our units will need a swooping dive, or easy access to massive shooting.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I meant for our Infantry. This whole time we've been talking Infantry. And I agree, Jetbikes are the answer to everything. So, when they are inevitably nerfed by GW for being too OP, the other 95% of our units will need a swooping dive, or easy access to massive shooting.

There wasn't any rule saying we were only talking about Infantry. That said, it's been over a year. I don't think GW is going to change our jet bikes.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I meant for our Infantry. This whole time we've been talking Infantry. And I agree, Jetbikes are the answer to everything. So, when they are inevitably nerfed by GW for being too OP, the other 95% of our units will need a swooping dive, or easy access to massive shooting.

In what way are our jetbikes op? The problem is rather that our infantry can't really compete with the jetbikes, they are just simply better at most things. Also they have the fly keyword, which is way to good in general this edition.

Its stuff like this that I'm hoping we get as rules for Custodes in PA. Shield Host traits to build on our current rules set. Stuff like, rerolls or bonus distance to charge, fighting first, maybe a better FNP vs mortal wounds.

There is a lot of unbroken ground for them to look at there that wouldn't completely break the faction, but help us stay relevant.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Its stuff like this that I'm hoping we get as rules for Custodes in PA. Shield Host traits to build on our current rules set. Stuff like, rerolls or bonus distance to charge, fighting first, maybe a better FNP vs mortal wounds.

There is a lot of unbroken ground for them to look at there that wouldn't completely break the faction, but help us stay relevant.

Agreed. Even a simple change like making our FNP apply to ALL mortal wounds (not just the psychic phase) would be helpful.

 greyknight12 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Its stuff like this that I'm hoping we get as rules for Custodes in PA. Shield Host traits to build on our current rules set. Stuff like, rerolls or bonus distance to charge, fighting first, maybe a better FNP vs mortal wounds.

There is a lot of unbroken ground for them to look at there that wouldn't completely break the faction, but help us stay relevant.

Agreed. Even a simple change like making our FNP apply to ALL mortal wounds (not just the psychic phase) would be helpful.

Ewwww. Given the proclivity for mortal wounds to be generated in 8th now with Psychic Awakening, I don't even want to consider those re-rolls. I would settle for a "Chaplain" unit for our guys that give litanies: +1 to attacks, +1 to damage in fight phase, +1 to charge rolls?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Its stuff like this that I'm hoping we get as rules for Custodes in PA. Shield Host traits to build on our current rules set. Stuff like, rerolls or bonus distance to charge, fighting first, maybe a better FNP vs mortal wounds.

There is a lot of unbroken ground for them to look at there that wouldn't completely break the faction, but help us stay relevant.

Agreed. Even a simple change like making our FNP apply to ALL mortal wounds (not just the psychic phase) would be helpful.

Ewwww. Given the proclivity for mortal wounds to be generated in 8th now with Psychic Awakening, I don't even want to consider those re-rolls. I would settle for a "Chaplain" unit for our guys that give litanies: +1 to attacks, +1 to damage in fight phase, +1 to charge rolls?

Chaplain unit would be neat, but we're less religious so not sure how it'd work. Maybe a Throne Room Guard who bellows out the Emperor's insight?

Shield-Host traits would be great.

I have a feeling SoS are our big gift in PA, but I'm currently worried they'll function like Ynnari. 'Take Aleya and her partner and your detachment becomes Talons of Emperor! Replace their special abilities with the following'.

Audustum wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Its stuff like this that I'm hoping we get as rules for Custodes in PA. Shield Host traits to build on our current rules set. Stuff like, rerolls or bonus distance to charge, fighting first, maybe a better FNP vs mortal wounds.

There is a lot of unbroken ground for them to look at there that wouldn't completely break the faction, but help us stay relevant.

Agreed. Even a simple change like making our FNP apply to ALL mortal wounds (not just the psychic phase) would be helpful.

Ewwww. Given the proclivity for mortal wounds to be generated in 8th now with Psychic Awakening, I don't even want to consider those re-rolls. I would settle for a "Chaplain" unit for our guys that give litanies: +1 to attacks, +1 to damage in fight phase, +1 to charge rolls?

Chaplain unit would be neat, but we're less religious so not sure how it'd work. Maybe a Throne Room Guard who bellows out the Emperor's insight?

Shield-Host traits would be great.

I have a feeling SoS are our big gift in PA, but I'm currently worried they'll function like Ynnari. 'Take Aleya and her partner and your detachment becomes Talons of Emperor! Replace their special abilities with the following'.

So according to the lore videos I just watched, When Gman met with Big E, he says something about how he realizes the Emperor views him notas a son, but as a tool. And from then on, Big E goes onto talk about using the current Echliesiarchy as a tool, and possible expanding on it as a weapon against chaos. So I could see the Echliesiarchy mandating inclusion in and battle with the Astartes, up to and including the Custodes. Thus, Custodes Chaplains in Terminator armor with arcanum maces and plasma pistols. While we are dreaming I would like a pony.

The emporer always comes out looking like a big pringle from the point of the primarch's since they all look up to him as a father figure (which he is), and he certainly wont win any father of the year awards, but, if you look at it from an outside view, he did try at first to be that to them.

His mind is just so detached from theirs, it was impossible for him to maintain that connection for long. It's a problem you get with most higher IQ humans in real life. They can form attachments and even love with others, but cant form a true brother to brother bond with others who cant keep up with their way of thinking.

They become either tools for you to further your ambition, or pets to keep you occupied at the end of it. It's sad, but very true.

Except for sub factions like Death Guard, all Factions have chapter-like rules Custodes, Assassins inquisition, Ynnari are the only factions that don't have chapter tactics. So I'm pretty sure Custodes will get a detachment wide chapter tactic like thing. Probably shield hosts.

These factions have not been announced for PA: Harlequins, Deathwatch, Necrons, Death Guard, Sisters of Battle, and Custodes. So Custodes will probably get new rules in May or June.

what do you think?

Edit: changed: army wide --> detachment wide

deleted Thousend Sons because they have cults.(I forgot that.)

I highly doubt the May-June prediction everyone is tossing around. If only because that would mean that 9th is not being worked on, instead they are working on new books for 8th, which is frankly a bloated frankenstien's monster now, and needs to be put down. I don't want to keep buying books, which are only invalidated 2 months later. Wipe the slate clean I say, Everyone, go back to your corners, and we start from 0 in July/August.

There’s always rumors of 9th... but if anything, it seems like it would just be a new rule book that includes the errata

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I highly doubt the May-June prediction everyone is tossing around. If only because that would mean that 9th is not being worked on, instead they are working on new books for 8th, which is frankly a bloated frankenstien's monster now, and needs to be put down. I don't want to keep buying books, which are only invalidated 2 months later. Wipe the slate clean I say, Everyone, go back to your corners, and we start from 0 in July/August.

In what world wouldn’t 9th increase bloat? They aren’t going to do full rules reboot #4 two years after full rules reboot #3 (and even if they did, it’s still the same rules team that turbo-bloated 6th/7th then completely unsurprisingly did the same when allowed to do their own system from the ground up)

I doubt we'll see a 9th edition. It wouldn't surprise me if we saw a re release of the main rulebook with all the rule changes from the last few years consolidated into it however.

see: updated BRB would solves exactly 1% of the current problems of 8th. Right now to play a game with IF, you need 3 books, numerous CAs, those CAs Erratas, and several out of print White Dwarf issues. And thats BEFORE you touch a box of models. They need to from scratch, redo the entire racial structure of information relevant to the game. Or make it a living digital rule set, with free updates to core racial rules. This FAQ/CA BS is failing worse than Millie Vanilli at a Trump Rally. It's completely butchered the idea and intent of the implementation. To streamline fixes and reduce player expenditure. Instead we have a FAQ/CA that we HAVE TO BUY, which is later invalidated by digitally posted, albeit free, rules, 2 months later. 9th would completely burn all this bloat to the ground, and start over, no more listening to WAAC players questions like "Can you define what the Shooting phase is?" or "Movement does not include disembarking, does it"?

So just as an aside: https://spikeybits.com/2020/01/custodes-2-0-codex-probably-not-heres-why.html

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So just as an aside: https://spikeybits.com/2020/01/custodes-2-0-codex-probably-not-heres-why.html

Ah shucks...

Psychic Awakening is our next update and it's probably adding in Sisters of Silence in some way. That's what is likely on my opinion.

Oh, and the FW book they're making.

Anyone see a reason to take a bunch of sos even if they get "Talons of the Emperor" keyword? They are likely not going to be troops, but Elites, and we are already tight for points and overloaded on the Elite Department. Assassins can do the job better and cheaper.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Anyone see a reason to take a bunch of sos even if they get "Talons of the Emperor" keyword? They are likely not going to be troops, but Elites, and we are already tight for points and overloaded on the Elite Department. Assassins can do the job better and cheaper.

I go back and forth on this. Jetbikes will outrun them, which makes their aura mostly a non-factor. Thousand Sons outrange the aura, which makes it a non-factor. They really seem mostly useful as a cheap screen (as Bolters squads) for a Custodes artillery list (which was nerfed in the last updates).

Hopefully, we'll get some model releases for them in the FW book. They have better options there.

If they had a damn HQ, i could see grabbing a cheap vanguard detachment of them to free up my custodians to actually do the fighting