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I've posted about this before but now I finally got a response from army painter about my problem. I'll explain. Army Painter recently redesigned their Army Painter cans. They have a new cap design (tabs you have to pull out instead of perforated bottom) and the nozzle itself is a different, more integrated design (its alot like GWs can nozzles now). I recently bought a can of Dragon Red a few weeks back after using the color all last year to paint my blood angels. Its an exact match to Vallejo's Gory Red and I was using that as the spot color after I primed my models. Like I said I bought a new can of the Dragon Red and after spraying some Razorbacks, i noticed that the paint was a lot thinner (good!) and had a smoother appearance (also good!), it also smelled a little different. So obviously they have changed it a bit. But, when i brought the models inside next to models I sprayed in the past, the color was significantly lighter. When I tested it by dabbing some Vallejo Gory Red onto the model, the Gory Red was a lot darker (not good). In fact I dabbed some GW Blood Red and it matched that paint pretty much perfectly.

I emailed Army Painter and got no response after about 5 days. So I returned the can to the store I bought it (Showcase Comics in Media, PA) and they graciously let me exchange the can for another. I immediately did a test spray on the new can and it also was lighter than the past Dragon Red, so Mike, the owner, refunded my money (thanks again Mike, sorry to be a pain).

At first I thought maybe the cans were mislabeled cans of Pure Red which apparantly is supposed match GW's Blood Red paint. But then...

A day later I got an email from Jonas at Army Painter explaining the situation. Here it is:

Thanks taking the time to write this email to me. Let me do what I can to explain and help.

The Army Painter as a company is constantly trying to give you gamers the best we can. We’re gamers and painters ourselves and we want only the best. Therefore we are continuously improving our products according to the feedback we get from many gamers. With regards of the Colour Primers, this has meant we have made the formulation even more matt over the cause of our 3 years on the gaming market. Technically speaking we have gone from a matt of about 5% to only 2-3%... might sound like a small change, but the effect is significant. Another improvement we have made is in the thickness of the layer. Now the Colour Primer sprays are thinner without compromising the excellent covering, thus keeping the details on the miniature better.

So far so good…

When changing Dragon Red we have had a production batch where the colour isn’t matching the old formulation 100%. We’re looking into this as we speak in the laboratory.

Unfortunately I don’t have an old can here to send you (that would have been the easiest), but I’d very much like to do something for you.

My suggestion is that you go looking for an “old” Dragon Red in your local games store and that I send you a couple of new different Colour Primers. If you can give me your address I’ll put something in a box for you.

The cans on the left are “old” and the cans on the right are “new” – notice the different lids.



Allow me to send you a pack of other Army Painter products as a little something to restore your confidence in our product.

Thanks,

Jonas Faering

The Army Painter
Email: Jonas@TheArmyPainter.com
Web: www.TheArmyPainter.com
Phone: +45 28 91 16 56


I want to frame this post by saying I really do like Army Painter paints and have used them almost exclusively for my Tau (Skeleton Bone) and Blood Angels (Dragon Red). I will continue to use them (once they resolve this issue with Dragon Red) and I dont want this to be a "bash Army Painter" post but I thought I should definately warn people.

I think its very good that they have taken steps to improve their product (smoother, thinner more even coat and better nozzles).

Hopefully they will resolve the issue soon but in the meantime, if you buy a new can of Army Painter, test it on a spare bits or something, before you spray your models to make sure it matches what you have been using in the past.

Has anyone else had this problem?

Had the same issue with their desert yellow, which properly ruined half a day work on my realm of battle.

I use the pure red on my Blood Angels and my last two cans have lot more orange than they used to. Doesn't really notice though after a wash of Baal Red. I find the new thinner paint much better though, messed up a squad of AOBR Terminators the first time I used a can because i didn't realise how thick it was compared to GW Primer.

Army Painter just fuzzes up on the models I've used it on.

Speaking of these, I found the new lids to be absolutely horrific to remove. Might just be me being a tad special though

Eszharen wrote:Speaking of these, I found the new lids to be absolutely horrific to remove. Might just be me being a tad special though

No, I agree - they are bloody awful. I nearly punctured a can with a screwdriver the other day trying to lever the cap off.

I have a different issue in that the pressure of the cans is crap. I shook one vigurously for about 5 minutes it was fine for 30 seconds then nothing and then all of a sudden it dumps a crap load of paint onto my model. Ruined a perfectly good baal predator

Sounds like very good customer service.

Also, thanks for the heads-up on these different "variants"!

I love the new stuff, I have done my entire guard army with the dessert yellow and to deal with that cap I just took the lid and clipped the tab out its no problem now.

Brother SRM wrote:Army Painter just fuzzes up on the models I've used it on.

Yep, I've found that as well. Leaves a real rough texture, that really destroys detail. This was enough for me to stop using army painter sprays.

That's some awesome customer service.

But seriously, invest in an airbrush. Then you have noone else but yourself to blame when something goes wrong. And you can almost always mix up the same consistent colour everytime you want.

And yes, I've also noticed the "fuzzyness" of some of the Army painter paints. Whats up with that? (Proper humidity and proper distance.)

I have to say I'm nt impressed by Army Painter sprays.

I tried their black primer about a year ago, what I got out of the can was okay but then it seized up and nothing would get the paint out of the tin, I had to find a rusty old can of GW Chaos black to finish the job.

pixelpusher wrote:That's some awesome customer service.

But seriously, invest in an airbrush. Then you have noone else but yourself to blame when something goes wrong. And you can almost always mix up the same consistent colour everytime you want.

And yes, I've also noticed the "fuzzyness" of some of the Army painter paints. Whats up with that? (Proper humidity and proper distance.)

Point me too a good red primer for an airbrush and I'll be jolly. The whole point of color primer is to skip the need or both a primer coat and a colored coat.

I used their black "primer" and it came out glossy, more like black paint than primer, and was an absolute bear to paint over. Nothing would stick to it without multiple layers. I stick with Glidden primer now. $4 a can...

Nagashek wrote:I used their black "primer" and it came out glossy, more like black paint than primer...

I thought that's what they were, closer to paint than true primer.

Yeah, I tried it and got a fuzzy can.

I still just stick to GW, despite their pricing I haven't found a decent alternative that doesn't flood the detail, fuzz up or give me a gloss finish.

Besides Army Painter cost just as much as GW.

I use the generic Home Depot $.99 flat black and it works better than any other primer I have used. I did buy Dragon Red recently, I'll be back to note my results.

Their brushes are great, I'm using an insane detail brush and a detail brush. I use the Insane a lot.

Dez wrote:I use the generic Home Depot $.99 flat black and it works better than any other primer I have used.

+1

Anyone who spends more then this on primer is fooling themselves.

I have friends who insist on buying various overpriced primers and yet when I test them they can't tell which models are using .99 primer and which are using their fancy primers...

What is the brand name on the $1 primer?

I generally prime with Valspar brand spray paint, which is indeed 99 cents at Lowe's. I get white and black, and use whatever is appropriate the the models I am doing.

CT GAMER wrote:

Dez wrote:I use the generic Home Depot $.99 flat black and it works better than any other primer I have used.

+1

Anyone who spends more then this on primer is fooling themselves.

I have friends who insist on buying various overpriced primers and yet when I test them they can't tell which models are using .99 primer and which are using their fancy primers...

Well, that's dandy if you want to prime black or white.

Personally, I prime with army painter pure red because it matches blood red, and my Tyranids are Behemoth, so blood red base. It's far easier and quicker to prime red then paint their armour and weapons black, than prime black and paint their skin red. The result is the same, but less coats of paint to get red to the right vibrancy.

Even if there were other colour primers that were cheaper, matching blood red is the key reason I use army painter.

Never had a problem with a can of Army Painter yet. I've got a bunch of the guys at the FLGS buying the Army Painter on my recommendation as well. I've only used the white and black so far though, none of the colored stuff.

-Loki- wrote:
Well, that's dandy if you want to prime black or white.

Personally, I prime with army painter pure red because it matches blood red, and my Tyranids are Behemoth, so blood red base. It's far easier and quicker to prime red then paint their armour and weapons black, than prime black and paint their skin red. The result is the same, but less coats of paint to get red to the right vibrancy.

Even if there were other colour primers that were cheaper, matching blood red is the key reason I use army painter.

+1.

Now OP, so are you saying the new Dragon Red is closer to the old Pure Red? I have a whole army of folks painted up with the Old Pure Red primer and I need to match it.

I've gone through all the primers, and just keep going back to GW chaos black. Nothing goes on smoother.

personally i have been using the x2 primer (i dont remember the brand but it has a big x2 coverage on the front) from menards for $3-4.

goes on very smooth and covers great.

I spray, then take a thick wash of what ever color i'm using for the base then paint away.

I really like Army Painter stuff. Brushes, primer, dip. No problems yet.

The fact that army painter
1. admitted to a problem
2. gave advice on how to fix a problem that they can't currently fix themselves
3. is sending you free stuff

They get a +1 from me
It would be nice if there was no problem of course, but you can't win them all, and they are actually putting forward an effort to make you happy as opposed to GW whom has a tendency of kicking people down stairs.

I had the exact same thing happen to me OP. I also use Dragon Red Primer for my Blood Angels as I like the darker more menacing tone that it gives. I've used 3-4 cans in the past and I recently bought one of the *Newer* cans and it came out a VERY different tone then the others. I love the Dragon Red Spray normally however this one came out a much lighter and almost orangish hue to it. I've also sent an email to Army Painter just now so they are aware its happening to more then one person.

Good on Army Painter for taking care of you as best they can. That is good to see from any company.

And of course Mike at Showcase is awesome!

I have had bad experience with Army Painter though, specifically their dark flesh tone. It was REALLY glossy and I had to use a few coats of DullCote to get it to hold paint at all without it beading up. I haven't tried the off white bone color I bought yet, and my friend uses it to good effect he says, but after the flesh debacle I am kind of nervous :(

I picked up their angel green after wanting a darker color for my salamander army than the recommended ork green. I agree with how hard it is to remove the cap, but other than that i have nothing else but praise for it. The spray was thick enough to completely coat the models i sprayed, but thin enough not to ruin detail.