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Is the GUO/Roticus viable in a 2k tournament or are those 325+pts Better off spent on something else? I have a friendly-tournament in 3 weeks but "most" of the people playing are practicing for ETC 2019.
There is ONE list that did well with them. Still not undefeated btw. The list was:
Bilepipiper
2 GUO Rotigus
Mortarion
Herald
rest nurglings (that's a lot of nurlgings)
Other than this big monster spam list - GUO sucks real bad.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/21 14:52:49
rvd1ofakind wrote: There is ONE list that did well with them. Still not undefeated btw. The list was:
Bilepipiper
2 GUO Rotigus
Mortarion
Herald
rest nurglings (that's a lot of nurlgings)
Other than this big monster spam list - GUO sucks real bad.
Still salty that the GUO (and Morty for that matter) arnt T8. Would solve a large amount of problems.
rvd1ofakind wrote: There is ONE list that did well with them. Still not undefeated btw. The list was:
Bilepipiper
2 GUO Rotigus
Mortarion
Herald
rest nurglings (that's a lot of nurlgings)
Other than this big monster spam list - GUO sucks real bad.
Still salty that the GUO (and Morty for that matter) arnt T8. Would solve a large amount of problems.
I'm just salty that things like Knights, Wraithknights, big Tau battlesuits, etc. have always been classed as Titanic but these massive Daemons aren't counted as titanic. The codex creep washed over 40k and missed Chaos completely.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
In my opinion, titanic would just make them weaker. There is plenty of stuff that targets titanic keyworded units, and only 2 of the 4 would even really benefit from having it.
Figured I'd start with the Tzeentch DP and Exalted Flamers as a mobile castle, the Plaguebearers with the Nurgle DP with miasma can cover them. Everything else deep strikes in, Bloodletter bomb with the Horrors/Fluxmaster to clear any screens, Khorne DP and Nurgle DP can go for the enemies tougher targets. Nurglings in there to stop enemy deep strikers and take objectives. Lots of command points spent on deep striking units but I'll still have enough for x2 Warp Surge. Any criticism welcome as I've not made a Daemon list since 5th edition!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/22 18:04:44
Renegade Knight [25 PL, 469pts]: Heavy stubber, Thermal cannon
. Rapid-fire battle cannon and heavy stubber: Heavy stubber, Rapid-fire battle cannon
Renegade Knight [25 PL, 489pts]: Heavy stubber, Ironstorm Missile Pod
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer
Renegade Knight [25 PL, 489pts]: Heavy stubber, Ironstorm Missile Pod
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer
++ Total: [105 PL, 1999pts] ++
Pbears as annoying tarpit with -2 to hit and doing double dmg +1 on wound rolls of 6. 2 Knights with A. Cannons will produce produce 48 shots as well as backfield defence. Knight with Battle Cannon and lance will slog up the board with the Pbears as anti tank. Using Stratagem to grant re-roll failed hits.
in a double demon battalion army list, with a Ts supreme command, worth play 60 Pb or swap 30 for some bloodletters? i play also 30 horrors and 9 nurgle drones.thx
3rd place league tournament
03-18-2018
2nd place league tournament
06-12-2018
3rd place league
tournament
12-09-2018
3rd place league tournament
01-13-2019
1st place league tournament
01-27-2019
1st place league
tournament
02-25-2019
HQ -
Ahriman on Disk of Tzeentch - Warlord, Diabolic Strength, Death Hex, Infernal Gaze
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch - Dark Matter Crystal, Gaze of Fate, Warptime, Talons
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch - Wings, Glamor of Tzeentch, Weaver of Fates, Talons
Played vs an experienced player with his Knights / Imperial Guard list. He had 5 of the smaller knights 3 of the CC ones and 2 of the shooty ones, one of the Big guys with a 4++ save artifact, 2 Basilisks, 30 Guardsmen, and was running the Guard CP regen warlord. He also had 2 of those damn assassins that blocked psycic powers and only get hit on 6's and one of those ones that deploy super close to you. He deep struck the super close one and one of the psycic guys. Deployment was Dawn of War. Mission was Supply Drop, 5 objectives w/ 2 in each deployment and 1 in the center. Each objective was worth VP = to the turn number, scored at end of each players turn. He got first turn. I deep struck the Bloodletters in the standard bloodletter bomb setup.
He moved stuff around a bit but pretty much kept back and did not press forward much except with his close combat knights and the assassin. He fired upon me but when the smoke cleared all he had done is killed the rubrics, the nurglings, and a few demonettes. 5++ is so nice on our basic guys! He scored 3 VP.
I rushed everything forward, keeping my pink's on one of my base objectives, keeping Ahriman on the other objective, then focusing on the center objective with my Tzaangors, 2 Tzeentch DP's, 2 Khorne DP's. The entire Slaanesh batallion moved up the side of the board towards his guard and basilisks. I charged the Tzaangors at his assassin and both Khorne DP's at one knight, the other cc knights were on the other side of a hill and out of range. It was a bit of a mistake. The Tzaangors surrounded his assassin and did 4 wounds to him (may only hit on 6's but he is a chr and tzaangors love to chomp on chrs). The DP with the axe swung and ended up doing a grand total of 28 Wounds to the knight once everything was said and done! Total over kill. This gave me the center objective, scoring 3 VP myself and first blood.
Turn 2 he came forward with his other 2 knights and his big knight. He fired everything on my forces and killed 1 the axe DP and dropped the other to 2 wounds (they ended up too far up and as I said, mistake) and killed 10 deamonettes. He then charged in to my Pink Horrors and 2 Tzeentch deamon princes with the 2 CC knights and charged the big knight in to the Khorne DP. He swung and killed my Khorne DP first, I inturrupted and had one of my Tzeentch DP's do 8 wounds to one of his CC knights, he killed the other Tzeentch DP with his knights and that was it. I still had troops on the center objective so he scored 4 VP.
My Turn 2 I dropped the Bloodletter bomb in as close to his big knight as I could. My slaanesh forces got within 2" of one of his objectives that had all the guard on it, rest of my force was where it needed to be. Psycic phase was a joke, damn -2 to cast within 18" but I did manage to kill the weakened cc knight with a smite. CC I charged the bloodletters into his big knight. I then charged all my slaanesh forces (the Masque, DP of Slaanesh, and like 18 demonettes) into the center of his guard. It was a blood bath. My DP of Tzeentch dropped his other cc knight to 2 wounds, the slaanesh forces ripped his guardsmen apart, my bloodletters charged in and did half the needed damage to kill the knight to it in CC, my Tzaangors finished off his assassin, and then I popped the strat to fight again and had the bloodletters attack again, managing to kill that damn knight! I rolled really well, he didnt do as well. That freed up my entire center force, giving me 8 VP. At this point we were out of time so had to call it, but I am very confident I would have won. He could have killed a LOT of my stuff still with all his ranged weapons but he wasn't going to be grabbing my objectives or the center one anytime soon and I was just going to roll on ahead of him in VP's.
Game 2
Spoiler:
Played a good player and his dark angels list. His major issue was he had NEVER played a daemons army before and was tooled up for knights / LOW's. He had Azreal, 10 hellblasters, the big primaris drednaught with assault cannons, 3 5-man squads of the basic primaris marine (the troops ones), a 10-man tactical squad which he combat squaded, a razorback w/ twin las, a predator w/ twin las and a pred autocannon, some annoying flyer, an apothecary, a banner guy, and a lieutenant. His entire idea was to have that squad of hellblasters being 4++ just deal weapons of the dark ages and overcharge at knights, blowing themselves up then firing again then use the apothecary to get back up. Totally useless vs daemon hordes.
Mission was a 'burn your opponents objectives' mission. 3 obj's in each deployment, deployment was dawn of war. each one you held was worth the turn number in VP, if you took an opponents objective in your movement phase at the end you could burn it for 1D3 VP instantly. He got 1st turn. I deep struck my bloodletters again with the banner.
Right away I could tell he was flustered. He wasn't sure what to do. So he decided to try to control the flow of the game and moved his force forwards! I even questioned him when he started doing it. He moved his flyer across the table behind my forces, moved the rest of his guys up 6", then started shooting. He unloaded everything on my basic guys, killing 5 pink horrors, both rubric squads (see a pattern with these guys?), and killing a few demonettes from 2 different squads, nothing of importance died. Then he forgot to fire his flyer! (If it wasn't a tournament I would have reminded him, but there was money on the line and this is supposed to be the intermediate level tournament for our area, not the beginners one). He scored 3 VP.
I then moved my force forward very quickly. GOD do I love that slaanesh advance and charge! I did turn my slaanesh daemon prince around to go deal with his flyer. Everything else moved up, I advanced my remaining 5 pinks up and put the Khrone DP with the axe behind them. Then I popped my dark matter crystal and moved the Tzaangors infront of them, 9" away from one of his objectives and a 5 man squad of primarus. Psy phase I put 3 wounds on the aircraft with a smite, killed a few primarus, put some wounds on the razorback, that was about it. I charged in dropping the 5 man squad to 2 guys (bad rolling), charging into the aircraft with my DP of slaanesh, then charged my daemonettes into his lines. I tied the predator up in CC dealing 2 wounds to it (got to love 6's at ap-4), tied up the marines and the center primarus in CC with daemonettes, and ran a dp of tzeentch with wings into the razorback killing it. Then my DP of slaanesh slaughtered his aircraft, but it exploded and put 3 wounds onto my DP. Still worth it lol. Score at the end my my turn, 3VP. So we were tied.
Turn 2 he didn't have many options. He pulled most of his forces back out of CC with me and fired everything he could at the closest small daemons, trying to get to my princes hiding behind them. But he failed, killing all but 1 deamonette that had attacked his predator with his hellblasters and other primarus shooting. His small squad of 2 guys tied up with my Tzaangors fell back and his big dread unloaded on my tzaangors, wiping them out. He had 2 of his objectives, the center one he had abandoned when he fell back. He scored 4 VP.
My turn 2 I went in strong. The DP with the Skullreaver moved forward again, getting within 4" of his dread and 6" of his last 2 primarus, everything else moved up ending up within easy charge range of his forces. My psycic phased killed off another 2 primarus but time was running low and I wanted to get my charges off. So I charged in, the Khorne DP declaring both primarus and the dread as targets. The Tzeentch DP and the other Khorne DP hit the predator, the slaanesh DP hit the small squad of primarus troops on the right flank, and the deamonettes with the masque and arhiman charged the remaining primarus and 3 tacticals that had just fallen back in the middle. The Khrone DP fighing the dreadnaught rolled bad but still did 13 wounds killing it. It exploded doing 2 wounds to my DP and killing one of the Primarus. My center force (Ahriman, Masque, deamonettes) killed the remaining primarus but failed to kill those last 3 tacticals (lucky bastards), and the Khrone DP vs the tank killed it without the help of the Tzeentch DP needed. The Slaanesh DP rolled bad but killed 2 of the squad of 5 Primarus. I then popped the Khorne fight again strat on my DP and swung and killed that last primarus. This gave me 5 objectives scoring 10 points. Game called at this point, we had a half hour but he had Azreal, 10 Hellblasters, the Apothecary and Banner guy and just a few more guys scattered around dying.
Final Score - 13 to 7 (not counting First Blood, Linebreaker, or Slay the Warlord)
Game 3
Spoiler:
This was against a very experienced Tau player. He was running Tau sept and some other sept that let him fire marker lights from orbit with a strat. Deployment was that weird 'Table Quarter with a 12'' circle in the middle of no mans land' and the mission was king of the hill. I actually won 1st turn but he rolled a 6 to seize. This probably more than anything helped him win the game. He had a drone port, 10 pathfinders, 30 firewarriors, a ghost keel, some stealth suits, a Stormsurge, 2 Broadsides, a Riptide, and a lot of shield drones floating around. The mission worked same as others, each turn the center was worth VP = to the turn number.
Turn 1 he unloaded on my guys, killing off about 60% of my cover guys. He dropped the pink horrors to 2 guys, killed 20 deamonettes, and 5 rubrics. He got first blood which was worth 3 VP!
I rushed forward taking the objective, but wasn't able to get into CC with him other than the Tzaangors who charged the stealth suits and killed some drones and 2 of them. Not good. I scored 1 VP.
Turn 2 he fired again, killing the rest of my flakk. He killed my axe DP of Khorne, killed the DP of slaanesh, and wounded the DP of tzeentch without wings. He got his stealth suits into range to claim the center objective for his turn. This gave him 5 Vp.
I rushed in with everything I had. I dropped the bloodletters in near the center then charged his crisis suits and stealth suits and drones with the DP of Tzeentch with wings, the Masque (who died to overwatch), Arhiman, and the bloodletters. My other DP of khorne hit his firewarrior line hard. I ended up killing 5 firewarriors with the DP and wiping that entire center group out taking back the center. Score was now 3Vp me to 5vp him.
BUT at this point it was hopeless. He backed his remaing fire warriors away from my DP of khorne, and then unloaded everything again. He tore through the bloodletters (even popping the +save strat wouldn't save them) and just wiped the floor with my stuff with his powerful long range firepower. I called it at this point because he had the lead in VP and I was about to get tabled.
I learned a lot about my force today.
1. Rubrics were a waste. they died each game and did nothing. More Pink Horrors would have been much better.
2. Deamonettes are still AMAZING in their own group. They hit hard and are stupid fast, I kind of want another 30 so I can run 3 groups of 20.
3. Bloodletters are also amazing, the bomb still works fine.
4. Deamon princes are very powerful but have to go up against the right targets. I really knew in my last game I needed to hit his firewarriors with my troops but they were all dead by that point so I couldn't do it. If I would have gotten 1st turn there it may have been a different story. As is I went last all 3 games and only lost 1 so eh....
5. CP wasn't as big an issue as I thought, each game I eneded with 5 or more still hanging out.
6. Tzaangors are also pretty damn cool in big groups. I cast glamor of Tzeentch and Weaver of Fates on them that last game when I charged them in and they held up really really well. Also Glamor of Tzeentch + Symphony of Pain (Good old slaanesh spell) can really surprise an opponent. What do you mean they are -2 to hit? Lol.
I think if I ran this list again I would drop the rubrics and take more Tzaangors. I also question the need for Arhiman, he didn't do bad per se but he never really did anything useful. I expected to dominate the psycic phase but really smites never got to the targets I needed them to. Those points would have been more useful just getting me more troops and swarming my opponent with 0 good options to shoot at. When all you have are t3 5++ targets to shoot at what good is a Las Cannon?
rvd1ofakind wrote: There is ONE list that did well with them. Still not undefeated btw. The list was:
Bilepipiper
2 GUO Rotigus
Mortarion
Herald
rest nurglings (that's a lot of nurlgings)
Other than this big monster spam list - GUO sucks real bad.
Still salty that the GUO (and Morty for that matter) arnt T8. Would solve a large amount of problems.
It really would. T8 is that break point where survivability increases exponentially.
"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
That list looks pretty enjoyable though, and I'm confident I have enough nurglings to run it. Pretty sure I have 23 bases of nurglings, and I know I have everything else.
This weekend was the first time i ran nurglings. I really did enjoy them and want to run them again, getting more would be great. In a DP list they are amazingly fun for "cant hit me, there is a small group of nurglings playing dice over there, got to kill them first!"
So has anyone found literally any use for Bloodcrushers besides mandatory brigade slots? I've tried mathhammering them against bloodletters in pretty much every toughness/wounds/save ratio, and the Letters are always either comparable or better, and the Bloodletters have the benefit of being troops and being harder to kill.
Well they are calvary, not infantry, so if you surround a knight it can't walk out. But really they are pretty units, just not cost effective. Or Bloodletters are really cost effective. Take your pick. I know I took out a full health 600 pt knight this weekend with 26 bloodletters from full health to 0. Yeah, I had to use the strat to attack again, but it worked really REALLY well when Plan A. (Daemon Prince with Skulltaker) and Plan B (Daemon Prince with relic sword) failed to live long enough to get to their target.
I love how Bloodletters and Skullreaver DPs have become some of the most points efficient units against Knights. Finally Khorne daemons getting some recognition. Too bad Bloodthirsters are still awful. I would buy one in a heartbeat if I knew that it wouldn't just sit on my shelf 100% of the time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/25 23:08:44
barboggo wrote: I love how Bloodletters and Skullreaver DPs have become some of the most points efficient units against Knights. Finally Khorne daemons getting some recognition. Too bad Bloodthirsters are still awful. I would buy one in a heartbeat if I knew that it wouldn't just sit on my shelf 100% of the time.
I tend to use Bloodthirsters as a distraction more often than not. I'll take the one with the great axe and charge it up the board, and 99% of the time they'll ignore any backline artillery I have in favor of the giant point sink.
Crushers being CAVALRY able to envelope a Knight is probably not a net benefit when you factor in having to walk around every knee-high ruined wall and knock on the door before you trample a unit shooting out of windows
barboggo wrote: I love how Bloodletters and Skullreaver DPs have become some of the most points efficient units against Knights. Finally Khorne daemons getting some recognition. Too bad Bloodthirsters are still awful. I would buy one in a heartbeat if I knew that it wouldn't just sit on my shelf 100% of the time.
I really think they need to fix each of the GD's, they just... aren't worth it. Make the GUO T8 (cuz nurgle), give the LOC a ranged weapon (I mean... hes a damn wizard, shoot lightning from his staff or something), Dunno what they could do with the KoS (Maybe -1 to hit naturally? They're supposed to be super fast), and give the ol' BT maybe a rule to being able to ignore overwatch on the charge (I mean... hes frightening as hell) so that your encouraged to charge him outta the Warp. I feel like this would at least make each of these more playable...
vaklor4 wrote: So has anyone found literally any use for Bloodcrushers besides mandatory brigade slots? I've tried mathhammering them against bloodletters in pretty much every toughness/wounds/save ratio, and the Letters are always either comparable or better, and the Bloodletters have the benefit of being troops and being harder to kill.
One advantage of course, is that you can paint and play with 3 cool bloodcrusher models, instead of 20 samey bloodletter models. Not a competitive viewpoint (in which case, again, you should be playing 90 bloodletters and 120 cultists) but for us filthy casuals it's a pretty important point
barboggo wrote: I love how Bloodletters and Skullreaver DPs have become some of the most points efficient units against Knights. Finally Khorne daemons getting some recognition. Too bad Bloodthirsters are still awful. I would buy one in a heartbeat if I knew that it wouldn't just sit on my shelf 100% of the time.
I really think they need to fix each of the GD's, they just... aren't worth it. Make the GUO T8 (cuz nurgle), give the LOC a ranged weapon (I mean... hes a damn wizard, shoot lightning from his staff or something), Dunno what they could do with the KoS (Maybe -1 to hit naturally? They're supposed to be super fast), and give the ol' BT maybe a rule to being able to ignore overwatch on the charge (I mean... hes frightening as hell) so that your encouraged to charge him outta the Warp. I feel like this would at least make each of these more playable...
I'd like to see BT get a 3d6" charge range (as seen on the Brass Scorprion), and give all of them an attacks profile that increases while their strength decreases as they take wounds. It's very bezerker flavorful (skarbrand and KLoS already have this.)
Pretty big buffs, but I think that's what it would take for me to field them as they are currently costed.
they should drop in price, at least 100 less points ,230-250 pts at least, they can die but you have space for more stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/26 18:50:32
3rd place league tournament
03-18-2018
2nd place league tournament
06-12-2018
3rd place league
tournament
12-09-2018
3rd place league tournament
01-13-2019
1st place league tournament
01-27-2019
1st place league
tournament
02-25-2019
barboggo wrote: I love how Bloodletters and Skullreaver DPs have become some of the most points efficient units against Knights. Finally Khorne daemons getting some recognition. Too bad Bloodthirsters are still awful. I would buy one in a heartbeat if I knew that it wouldn't just sit on my shelf 100% of the time.
If greater daemons had a ++4 or T8 base, I think we would see a lot more of them, and I would like that a lot.
Its a survival thing. If they are as big as a knight they should match up. Unfortunately they dont. Doesn't mean they are bad. One of my better lists that works in my local meta is loc and bloodthirster with armor of scorn. Bump both up to 3++ saves let the opponent choose which dies (they normally pick the bloodthirster lol). But it only works because i dont bring it often and no one expects it.
I have actually been thinking recently how bad all the Greater Daemons are, even after the Codex came out. Real miss. They need to either all be 30+ points cheaper, or increase their cost by 20-30 points each and make them T8 and/or 4++. This in between space is terrible...they are way too fragile and overpriced for their stats, especially given that they are all mostly melee based units.
Its an 8th edition problem really. Everyone always being able to just walk out of combat is huge. Even if they left all the stats the way they are a gd of khorne would have value if once in combat the enemy was stuck there. Then change it so only units with special rules (fly, ultramarines) can walk out of combat. It would at least make combat armies viable. Right now cc is good but doesnt hold a candle to shooting armies.
I'd personally do a price reduction. I hate having to refer to FAQs for datasheets, so i'd rather keep the physical codex actually up to date as far as datasheets.
lindsay40k wrote: One possible way forwards could be that when units fall back, the enemy gets to make ‘pursuit’ attacks that are like melee overwatch
That would also open up scope for weapons to have interesting effects. Like a lash could Pursue at full WS
Automatically Appended Next Post: But this is wishlisting, not tactica
I actually quite like this idea. Could even simplify and say that falling back will cause D3 mortal wounds if the unit you are falling back from has more models.
"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
So my Skarbrand arrives in a few days. Any advice on running him?
Obvious synergy with bloodletter hordes + crimson crown on a skullmaster... but I'm not sold on bloodletters over bezerkers.
My plan right now is to deep strike him in, and saturate the board with bezerkers in rhinos, and possibly a super heavy like a Scorpion or KLoS. Generally a waste of points but fun to use.
5300 | 
1600 | 
