Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I've been thinking, why haven't the Daemon Primarchs actually done anything recently (with the exception of Angron)? Is there a reason why they aren't attacking the Imperium and just staying in the Eye of Terror or are they just too lazy?

Thanks.

They're Daemon Princes, they stay in the Warp because they prefer it, like most other Daemon Princes. Most are either meditating, like Magnus and Lorgar, or just bitter, like Perturabo, or are just happy doing what they're doing, like Mortarion who now rules his own plague planet which is a replica of Barbarus, or Fulgrim, who is enjoying himself in Slannesh's company.

They also don't have a dedicated enough following to be summoned out. They can't just leave the warp on their own.

DarknessEternal wrote:They also don't have a dedicated enough following to be summoned out. They can't just leave the warp on their own.

Daemon Princes can. It's summoned and greater daemons which require a rift or a possessed mind. The Princes are part mortal and generally remain in the physical universe, albeit the Eye of Terror.

According to fluff they can't. It's one of the SW books that a cult is trying to get Magnus to come out and play. I haven't read anything about Princes being part mortal...

mrwhoop wrote:According to fluff they can't. It's one of the SW books that a cult is trying to get Magnus to come out and play. I haven't read anything about Princes being part mortal...

Not quite, IIRC Magnus needed to be summoned because he had been banished (Russ sorely wounded him with the Spear of Russ on Garm during the post Heresy scouring leaving his corporeal form wasted and his soul stranded in the warp, therefore he would need to be summoned again if I understand things correctly. Angron is also currently banished by the Grey Knights after his invasion of Armageddon. Princes are part mortal because as a daemon prince they are a mortal elevated to daemonhood so therefore they have a physical body unlike a daemon's which is fed by the warp and can only maintain itself with a source of warp energy or for a finite amount of time. Daemon Princes are functionally immortal in that unless they are killed psychically by someone incredibly potent (ala Emperor v Horus) they just get banished to the warp when their physical form is destroyed.

I don't know much about the current status of the other daemon Primarchs although I know Lorgar has locked himself away in his citadel writing a load more of his insane chaos religious babble, and iirc from Dead Sky, Black Sun (Mcneil) one of the Iron warrior lords states that Perturabo has little to do with the running of the iron warriors since his ascension to daemonhood.

NB: This is my take on how daemons work from the various sources of fluff I've read on them plus discussions I've had with other gamers etc. not saying it's 100% canon accurate just how I've interpreted what I've read heard.

Maybe not 100% canon accurate, but one of the most interesting theories I've heard on the subject nontheless!

They just like to watch Friends. Endless Re-runs of Friends... Now that is hell.

I think they are bored with life and are playing around with Slannesh Daemonetees.

Maybe they got the latest Play Station console and play Call of Duty and Halo all day long.

You can't get Halo on the playstation...

purplefood wrote:You can't get Halo on the playstation...

Deamonprinces in the 40th Millenium can corrupt any primitive machine spirit

motorhead1945 wrote:

purplefood wrote:You can't get Halo on the playstation...

Deamonprinces in the 40th Millenium can corrupt any primitive machine spirit

This.

Scrapcode Halo is full of hax!!!

This is, honestly, one of the things I like least about the 40k fluff. I don't think Chaos makes a whole lot of sense, and the fact that the traitor Legions still have Primarchs, and the Imperium doesn't, means that the traitors should be running roughshod over the loyalists. Their inability to do so has always confused me.

Because primarchs aren't all that? I don't see a primarch being generally smarter than your average chapter master, and leading from the front would make them a target.

Angry emo primarch vs. Volcano cannon anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

Near everything about the Primarch Project makes them out to be super intelligent. They're certainly smarter than your average Chapter Master, who isn't educated beyond battlefield tactics.

iproxtaco wrote:Near everything about the Primarch Project makes them out to be super intelligent. They're certainly smarter than your average Chapter Master, who isn't educated beyond battlefield tactics.

I think most if not all chapter masters know something beyond just battlefield tactics...

Jimsolo wrote:This is, honestly, one of the things I like least about the 40k fluff. I don't think Chaos makes a whole lot of sense, and the fact that the traitor Legions still have Primarchs, and the Imperium doesn't, means that the traitors should be running roughshod over the loyalists. Their inability to do so has always confused me.

Chaos is losing because they are horribly outnumbered. Look at the stats of Daemon Princes. Do you honestly think a couple of them could change the tide in a massive 10k year war when their side is hopelessly outnumbered (I'd estimate 5 to 1 based on the way the fluff talks about it but there isn't an exact number)?

LoneLictor wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:This is, honestly, one of the things I like least about the 40k fluff. I don't think Chaos makes a whole lot of sense, and the fact that the traitor Legions still have Primarchs, and the Imperium doesn't, means that the traitors should be running roughshod over the loyalists. Their inability to do so has always confused me.

Chaos is losing because they are horribly outnumbered. Look at the stats of Daemon Princes. Do you honestly think a couple of them could change the tide in a massive 10k year war when their side is hopelessly outnumbered (I'd estimate 5 to 1 based on the way the fluff talks about it but there isn't an exact number)?

Chapters turn Renegade on a fairly regular basis according to fluff, and there arent any concrete numbers for the Traitor Legions to begin with, let alone recruiting since the HH. Outnumbered is a bit of a weak argument since you cant prove anything, sorry.

Also, Rules=/= Fluff, you cant look at the stats of something and make any conclusions about what they are actually like (see TT Marines and Fluff Marines)

Frazzled wrote:Because primarchs aren't all that? I don't see a primarch being generally smarter than your average chapter master, and leading from the front would make them a target.

Angry emo primarch vs. Volcano cannon anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

Ooh ooh, is it Vulkan? IIRC he took some serious ordnance to the face.

Frazzled wrote:Because primarchs aren't all that? I don't see a primarch being generally smarter than your average chapter master, and leading from the front would make them a target.

Angry emo primarch vs. Volcano cannon anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

Primarch's have been known to change the tide of battles, but I haven't read of an occasion when they charge blindly into combat, except maybe Russ and Angron. They are tactical geniuses after all so they can deploy themselves, normally dropping into the midst of the enemy, only when completely necessary.

Nothing has killed a Primarch in combat except another Primarch, or if your facing a ton of gray knights.

Yeah, I was to understand that the Primarchs are the pinnacle of humanity in every way, including intellectually. Granted, if you read Fulgrim you come away with the impression that Fulgrim has all the common sense of a soup cracker, but most of the other sources seem to portray the Primarchs with a bit more intelligence. Even Angron. But Chaos is so often portrayed as being...stupid. Just really, really dumb. It seems like with all their power, they should be able to at least inflict a few major victories, but all they really do is come out and do some graffiti, then run back to their little hole in the Warp.

Then, when they talk about the way that the majority of the Chaos forces operate, I can't fathom how they could have functioned for ten minutes, much less ten thousand years.

Sorry if you are a Chaos player, I don't mean to be all negative. I can certainly understand the draw to rooting for the "bad guys," but I just don't think Chaos is particularly well written.

[quote=JimsoloIt seems like with all their power, they should be able to at least inflict a few major victories, but all they really do is come out and do some graffiti, then run back to their little hole in the Warp.

i think Gw would be better off if the back stories are more even, it would make it more fun to play for who you think is cool (good or evil) rather than reasoning that chaos is dumb and cowardly

or they could do the unthinkable rules wise and bump up the chaos stats but increase the points too

Nicholas wrote:Nothing has killed a Primarch in combat except another Primarch, or if your facing a ton of gray knights.

Not true.

See Rogal Dorn, killed assaulting the bridge of a Chaos ship.

Plus we have two primarchs we know nothing about. It may be the loss of one to a technobarbarian shooting their helmetless keisters with a Smith & Wesson was the reason they were expunged...

purplefood wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Near everything about the Primarch Project makes them out to be super intelligent. They're certainly smarter than your average Chapter Master, who isn't educated beyond battlefield tactics.

I think most if not all chapter masters know something beyond just battlefield tactics...

Not really. Primarchs are naturally intelligent, super human intelligent, all of them, it's in their genetic make-up. Chapter Masters are humans with super human bodies, and aren't taught anything extra outside of battlefield tactics. Sure, hundreds of years of fighting around the universe and you're going to pick up a thing or two, but they aren't thinkers.

iproxtaco wrote:

purplefood wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Near everything about the Primarch Project makes them out to be super intelligent. They're certainly smarter than your average Chapter Master, who isn't educated beyond battlefield tactics.

I think most if not all chapter masters know something beyond just battlefield tactics...

Not really. Primarchs are naturally intelligent, super human intelligent, all of them, it's in their genetic make-up. Chapter Masters are humans with super human bodies, and aren't taught anything extra outside of battlefield tactics. Sure, hundreds of years of fighting around the universe and you're going to pick up a thing or two, but they aren't thinkers.

Funny, they never seem to come across like that in the codexes or books. In fact, with a few exceptions, they seem pretty meh, like your average banana republic warlord.

And Leman Russ is a thinker?
Drops on Prospero without thinking and goes stupid? (what happened to prospero anyway?)
some are very intelligent but some......
genes aren't everything.