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i want to use tau but almost all tau units have horrible melee abilities, how do i react to an assault of orks or nids when they get too close?

Don't let them get close. If you're in melee with tau you've essentially already lost. Tau really on staying mobile and laying down precisely directed fire. They have a very steep learning curve in order to be played well, but can be very enjoyable if you get the hang of it. Would not recommend as a first army however.

Use units of about 10-14 kroot to screen your suits.

When the orks get close, move your kroot screen in a line up to about 1" away from the assaulting ork unit, and stand there. In their turn, they must charge the screening kroot. The kroot all die, then you get another turn to shoot at the orks or whatever with your suits.

Then, if you have another unit of kroot, do it again.

You can get at least 2-3 additional turns of shooting from using successive screens of kroot to slow enemy assaults. At higher point values, and against vehicles, you can do the same thing with piranhas.

What upgrades do you suggest i get for my FW and are snipers useful against important units?

Against orks or tyranids you're better off picking up a couple of hammerheads in your heavy slots, rather than sniper teams. Submunitions make an awfully satisfying hole in horde lines

If you have FW units then they should ideally be kept quite far back to stop easy assaults. With Tau you should have the maneuverability to concentrate most of your army's firepower into a small portion of the enemy army. Basically, if an enemy unit can't reach your lines this turn, ignore it and concentrate on what can. Maybe try to pick off any obvious AT threats if you have spare capacity.

Flavius Infernus wrote:Use units of about 10-14 kroot to screen your suits.

When the orks get close, move your kroot screen in a line up to about 1" away from the assaulting ork unit, and stand there. In their turn, they must charge the screening kroot. The kroot all die, then you get another turn to shoot at the orks or whatever with your suits.

Then, if you have another unit of kroot, do it again.

You can get at least 2-3 additional turns of shooting from using successive screens of kroot to slow enemy assaults. At higher point values, and against vehicles, you can do the same thing with piranhas.

do ^this^

Kroot and Piranha w/ drones are what make Tau armies actually work. Piranha block vehicles as well as infantry, while kroot and gun drones block infantry. Its all about buying your suits time to do the killin'.


Don't get upgrades for Firewarriors. If you insist on fielding foot units of them then a 'Ui upgrade is ok for the Ld boost.

Sniper drones are ok, but have some drawbacks. They use up a Heavy slot, which is a big deal. Also every team must be deployed and operate independently, which means a 4 wound stationary Kill Point. They also lose effectiveness with enemies in cover, and they don't get through feel no pain (except some DE units). I personally stick with Broadsides and Hammerheads.

Stay mobile in Devilfish. If your FW are out of their fish you're doing it wrong.

If you must castle up, however, put Kroot meatshields in front in a line. Sometimes it works against weaker units, to put FW in front so they can get some good rapid firing before they die, with Kroot behind to countercharge. A unit of 20 dishes out 60 s4 attacks on the charge, but will still die quickly so I wouldn't recommend it.

my buddy plays Tau and I have under estimated the Kroot before and they wiped me He runs a large unit of them and when they are in the woods they get that bonus to cover saves. They are decent in hand to hand but lack armor, so they die easy. However at the point costs they aren't that bad

Flavius Infernus wrote:Use units of about 10-14 kroot to screen your suits.

When the orks get close, move your kroot screen in a line up to about 1" away from the assaulting ork unit, and stand there. In their turn, they must charge the screening kroot. The kroot all die, then you get another turn to shoot at the orks or whatever with your suits.

Then, if you have another unit of kroot, do it again.

You can get at least 2-3 additional turns of shooting from using successive screens of kroot to slow enemy assaults. At higher point values, and against vehicles, you can do the same thing with piranhas.

I'm an old Tau player, I hate this bubble wrap / throw away unit crap. Kroot, suck for CC in 5th edition, they almost always lose CR and run. Kroot are actually pretty useful, but not as assaulters, rather as cheap shooters from forests (3+ save, yay!). Ironically, Kroot do better against orks than they do any other army, because of the lack of armor...........it's still not enough.

Your only real option, as a Tau player, to deal with assaulters, is........to not get assaulted. Don't have a gunline, stay mobile. Form pockets, lure the leading edge of the army into your pocket, focus fire and shoot it the hell off. Run away.

My Tau theories are different than everyone else's though. Sometimes, though, everyone else is wrong.

Not getting assaulted is not always an option.

Deathwing assault, DoA Blood Angels, Dark Eldar, Spodding nids, bike armies or podding marines can all assault anything on the table by the end of turn 2 (3 for blood angels). It's just plain geometry. There is no spot on the table that they can't reach in 2 turns, and no army can muster enough firepower to stop them before they get to you. Tau are so weak in assault, that one character or a couple of terminators can take out a whole army once they reach it.

Heck, any army with a land raider can assault you in turn 2 if you don't manage to stop it with your one turn of shooting. Going second, with the LR smoking after its turn 1 movement, the odds are really good that you'll have terminators and Vulkan or whatever in your lines at the top of turn 2.

Screening is the only way to buy yourself some time, and some additional turns of shooting.

Flavius Infernus wrote: There is no spot on the table that they can't reach in 2 turns.

tables are large enough to take many turns to get from one end to another, are you sure?

aldwin123123 wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote: There is no spot on the table that they can't reach in 2 turns.

tables are large enough to take many turns to get from one end to another, are you sure?

Let's see the math.

A DE transport can go 12" forward and disembark troops 2" (nearly 15" total). Then the troops fleet 1-6" and assault 6" for a total movement of 22"-27" (or actually just under 27"). So in a pitched battle deployment, they can reach to the enemy deployment zone in 1 turn 2/3 of the time--that's in turn 1. If you set up on your board edge and the DE transports go flat-out in their turn 1, they're 36" into the table in their own turn 2--so even the minimum assault of 22" would carry them 58" from the DE player's table edge. On the 48" tables where I play, that's 10" beyond the opponent's table edge. Even in Dawn of War, they can cross a minimum of 46" of table with a turn 2 assault. I hope your crisis suit bases are less than 2" wide, or you're getting assaulted.

In a deathwing assault, the bikes can scout-boost 24" off their deployment line and call in the deepstriking terminators 6" forward of that. Including the size of their bases, that puts those terminators easily into the 50"+ assault distance in turn 2 for a pitched battle deployment.

A land raider (non-fast) deploying on the line goes 12" forward in its first turn and pops smoke. Then in the following turn it gets 12" more, plus nearly 3" disembark, and 6" assault for a total of almost 33". In pitched battle that means 45" from the opponent's table edge.

Those are the armies that deploy on the line--and in spearhead you can sometimes use distance to get a third turn of shooting (if you went first, otherwise still 2 turns of shots) for that type of army.

But for deepstriking armies--the DoA BA or spodding nids or podding marines or daemons--they can deepstrike 1" in front of your lines no matter where you deploy. If you don't have some kind of screening unit to stop them, they're going to charge you the turn after they drop.

Against assault armies like Nids or Orks Kroot shields don't wonk. They will outnumber you kroot and have enough units to wrap around your kroot and FW. Yes some armies can move as fast as you can but these armies (DE, BA) will kill the kroot as easy as FW. While they are in CC with the kroot you can't shoot them.

The trick is to use vehicles. Tyranids rely on specific units to destroy tanks- focus on these at first and they won't be able to hurt tanks. Orks have only very limited AT weapons. Your Disruption pods (always take dpods on every vehicles- best 5 point upgrade in the game) will stop a lot of ranged attacks and your fast enough to stay out of combat. If you have a choice between a vehicle and an infantry unit that do the same roles, choose the tank (the only exception is crisis suits- get as many as you can).

Make sure your FW are always in the Dfish. FW are some of the worst basic troops so just keep them for holding objectives.

In the first few turns try to thin out the enemy. Focus fire units and use railgun submunitions. Cleary some units early on makes maneuvering later in the game much easier.

If a infantry unit gets into combat just try and get the rest of the units far enough away that they can't be charged and within LoS to destroy the enemy unit in the next turn.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:Use units of about 10-14 kroot to screen your suits.

When the orks get close, move your kroot screen in a line up to about 1" away from the assaulting ork unit, and stand there. In their turn, they must charge the screening kroot. The kroot all die, then you get another turn to shoot at the orks or whatever with your suits.

Then, if you have another unit of kroot, do it again.

You can get at least 2-3 additional turns of shooting from using successive screens of kroot to slow enemy assaults. At higher point values, and against vehicles, you can do the same thing with piranhas.

I'm an old Tau player, I hate this bubble wrap / throw away unit crap. Kroot, suck for CC in 5th edition, they almost always lose CR and run. Kroot are actually pretty useful, but not as assaulters, rather as cheap shooters from forests (3+ save, yay!). Ironically, Kroot do better against orks than they do any other army, because of the lack of armor...........it's still not enough.

Your only real option, as a Tau player, to deal with assaulters, is........to not get assaulted. Don't have a gunline, stay mobile. Form pockets, lure the leading edge of the army into your pocket, focus fire and shoot it the hell off. Run away.

My Tau theories are different than everyone else's though. Sometimes, though, everyone else is wrong.

Your cookie good sir ----> *cookie*

Also, plus 5 pts of "yes"

Flavius Infernus wrote:

aldwin123123 wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote: There is no spot on the table that they can't reach in 2 turns.

tables are large enough to take many turns to get from one end to another, are you sure?

Let's see the math.



In a deathwing assault, the bikes can scout-boost 24" off their deployment line and call in the deepstriking terminators 6" forward of that. Including the size of their bases, that puts those terminators easily into the 50"+ assault distance in turn 2 for a pitched battle deployment.

I'm not discreditting your whole arguement, but to be accurate, you should know that Ravenwing bikes are actually dissallowed by thier own codex from turbo-boosting on scout moves.

ork_smash wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:

aldwin123123 wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote: There is no spot on the table that they can't reach in 2 turns.

tables are large enough to take many turns to get from one end to another, are you sure?

Let's see the math.



In a deathwing assault, the bikes can scout-boost 24" off their deployment line and call in the deepstriking terminators 6" forward of that. Including the size of their bases, that puts those terminators easily into the 50"+ assault distance in turn 2 for a pitched battle deployment.

I'm not discreditting your whole arguement, but to be accurate, you should know that Ravenwing bikes are actually dissallowed by thier own codex from turbo-boosting on scout moves.

How about a grey knight shunt+scout?

Pretty sure that got banned by the Grey Knight FAQ^.

Having units which are always going to lose combats (and lose them badly in most cases) is not necessarily a bad thing. For a shooting heavy army (which is what Tau are by default) you don't want units to be tied up in combat because it means you can't shoot them. What you don't want is units holding for a turn, because then they win combat/you break in your own turn so they get free movement and a chance to press forward quickly without being countered. So even if your Kroot/Drones/Piranhas/empty Devilfish die painfully they won't be locking your opponents units safely in combat, so you can set up the next speed bump and resume shooting the hell out of him.

Your battlesuits are your bread and butter focus on getting many of those. Mount up your FWs or if you use pathfinders(which I hiiighly suggest) have your FWs jack their transport, if you depolyed them right they won't be needing it. Then fill in with hammerheads pirhanas etc. A lot of people like broadsides. I prefer hammerheads, they can move and still fire a railgun and have submunitions. Twin linked rail guns are scary but if you opponent says he likes seeing 3 hammerheads on the other end of the table he's a liar.

Eliliketheanchor wrote:Your battlesuits are your bread and butter focus on getting many of those. Mount up your FWs or if you use pathfinders(which I hiiighly suggest) have your FWs jack their transport, if you depolyed them right they won't be needing it. Then fill in with hammerheads pirhanas etc. A lot of people like broadsides. I prefer hammerheads, they can move and still fire a railgun and have submunitions. Twin linked rail guns are scary but if you opponent says he likes seeing 3 hammerheads on the other end of the table he's a liar.

My opponents prefer me to field my 3 Hammerhead list, they have a better shot against 3 Hammerheads than they do against 9 Plasma Broadsides with Piranha/Drone/Kroot buffering. Hammerheads just have to be glanced to shut them down. Broadsides only stop shooting when they're dead.

Reliance on mobility to buy us time used to work well... then Blood Angels and Dark Eldar got redone. DE are so much faster it nearly neutralizes our movement, and BA are also faster as well as having better gear and firepower for that sort of game. Mech Tau used to be the best way to go, but I've found building to our current strengths (awesome anti-Mech) to work very well, which means a buffered gunline. I've placed in the last three tournaments I've been in with it, seems to be going well.

As an Enclave player I can't do the kroot throw away option to stay out of assault. And since my roommate plays DE and DA I've had lots of experience being assaulted. I find your best bet is to first and foremost kill any enemy transports. (Really easy if your're playing DE, every gun tau has can pen!) And use those fish of fury the right way. Mobility and smart tactics can usually keep you from being assaulted, but if one of your squads finds itself in CC. Just leave em to die and get your other units away so they can fire once the carnage is over. Thats my plan anyway.

Eliliketheanchor wrote: Twin linked rail guns are scary but if you opponent says he likes seeing 3 hammerheads on the other end of the table he's a liar.

2 Broadsides cost about as much as a RailHead whit certain upgrades. having 3 RailHeads still just gives you 3 AT shots while 9 broadsides gives you 3 times as many ( at more points, but still ). the best (Da best) is a combination of Hammerheads and Broadsides

Personally I find relying completely on Broadsides to be a bad idea. You can give them upgrades to make them tougher but a single high S low AP blast will wipe them out. They can be locked in CC and are easy to catch becuase they are so slow. People know what they can do and will target them first. If you want to keep them alive them you have to spend more points on a unit to
protect them or keep the rest of your army nearby.

They aren't bad but it's useful to have a railhead at the same time. They are faster, tougher and can move away from the rest of the army.

Dont the crisis suits have failsafe detonators that just pwn everything around it? you get to have the rest of the squad fall back, and then 1 stays behind and a large blast S8 AP2 is placed on top of him, blowing up whatever is near, if its termies, goodbye termies

IIRC, i may be wrong on the rule

Do not get assaulted.
Use hammerhead mode and missile pod spam to destroy them before they get close.
If didn't work out: FLEE.

Do not get assaulted.

Play dead, just lay your models down on their sides and fall to the ground, your opponent will eventually give up and leave

Sir_Prometheus wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:Use units of about 10-14 kroot to screen your suits.

When the orks get close, move your kroot screen in a line up to about 1" away from the assaulting ork unit, and stand there. In their turn, they must charge the screening kroot. The kroot all die, then you get another turn to shoot at the orks or whatever with your suits.

Then, if you have another unit of kroot, do it again.

You can get at least 2-3 additional turns of shooting from using successive screens of kroot to slow enemy assaults. At higher point values, and against vehicles, you can do the same thing with piranhas.

I'm an old Tau player, I hate this bubble wrap / throw away unit crap. Kroot, suck for CC in 5th edition, they almost always lose CR and run. Kroot are actually pretty useful, but not as assaulters, rather as cheap shooters from forests (3+ save, yay!). Ironically, Kroot do better against orks than they do any other army, because of the lack of armor...........it's still not enough.

Your only real option, as a Tau player, to deal with assaulters, is........to not get assaulted. Don't have a gunline, stay mobile. Form pockets, lure the leading edge of the army into your pocket, focus fire and shoot it the hell off. Run away.

My Tau theories are different than everyone else's though. Sometimes, though, everyone else is wrong.

You can't avoid assault against some armies. This in itself is a flawed strategy. Don't believe me? You're gonna love scout bikes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

4M2A wrote:Personally I find relying completely on Broadsides to be a bad idea. You can give them upgrades to make them tougher but a single high S low AP blast will wipe them out. They can be locked in CC and are easy to catch becuase they are so slow. People know what they can do and will target them first. If you want to keep them alive them you have to spend more points on a unit to
protect them or keep the rest of your army nearby.

They aren't bad but it's useful to have a railhead at the same time. They are faster, tougher and can move away from the rest of the army.

Pretty much everything you said is true for Hammerheads too. A single high strength shot (doesn't even have to be a blast) can cripple with a simple weapon destroyed result or a crew shaken result. Hammerheads can't be locked in CC, but now they are pretty free in CC since things hit rear...stack this with crew stunned and immobilize results, and you'll find hammerheads pretty crappy when they get assaulted. People know exactly what they can do and target them first.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

dajobe wrote:Dont the crisis suits have failsafe detonators that just pwn everything around it? you get to have the rest of the squad fall back, and then 1 stays behind and a large blast S8 AP2 is placed on top of him, blowing up whatever is near, if its termies, goodbye termies

IIRC, i may be wrong on the rule

Failsafes are AP 4

Saying you have to avoid assault is not always the best strategy. I always take drop pods and fast attack against Tau, and with my Orks I take so many boyz in trukks with big meks and KFF and bikes that I will be assaulting you by turn 2.

I think with Tau your biggest strategy point is your deployment. If you can deploy in a way that will split enemy forces or perhaps distract them in some way while you get enough shots off then your chances of winning are higher. A lot of times you will benefit form charging for combat resolution rather than be charged. I have cornered Tau many times with my Marines and Orks and they didn't have any more room to flee.

Hammerheads can be one hit by high S but Dpods can go a long way to help this. If your letting you opponent get any where near CC range with your hammerhead you probably need to rethink your plan. They can crew shaken/stunned you but it isn't likely this will happen enough to stop you moving enough to escape CC. Broadsides can't move and shoot and are far too slow. Hammerheads can move around to get into LoS and don't have to sit in their starting spot. On a table with any kind of terrain your opponent will be keeping out of LoS with anything valuable. Tau armies fight by keeping mobile. A unit of broadsides goes against this idea completely.

Tau are like long range artillery team but artillery is useless at close range

dajobe wrote:Play dead, just lay your models down on their sides and fall to the ground, your opponent will eventually give up and leave

Very funny story about this, believe it or not it worked on me once. I had gone to the bathroom for a moment and my friend knocked over some FW while I was gone. When I came back I didn't notice and kept playing. Flew my assault marines over them then next turn he announced they'd be rapid firing me. If I hadn't tabled him I would have been pissed