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 plastictrees wrote:
That is unbelievably bad. What a mess of sloppy texture, hacky musculature on a half assed frame.
Can not believe the sort of nonsense they are allowed to release as one of the biggest gaming companies in the world.

Just sayin'

And that thing has only been removed in the last couple of weeks or so. It was there last time I looked for it, very recently.


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 Alex C wrote:
Point is that it's yet another case of Mantic promising one thing and then changing their mind after they have our money.
I love the Mantic games and the staff seem great, but this gak just keeps on happening.

A freebie add-on like that is the least of my concerns. Unless you're saying that a map was one of the key reasons you backed at $50+

I mean, I'm critical of Mantic when I think it's warranted, but this is a far cry from the Trolls or the Men at Arms, or changing restic to metal. (or vice versa).

 plastictrees wrote:
That is unbelievably bad. What a mess of sloppy texture, hacky musculature on a half assed frame.
Can not believe the sort of nonsense they are allowed to release as one of the biggest gaming companies in the world.

Mantic are nowhere near the biggest gaming company in the world, they are not even the biggest wargaming company in the city.

The map wasn't why I backed, but I would much prefer the map to an art print.

Several people have said that the map was a key factor in their pledge though. I don't think it's fair to dismiss it as just a "freebie add on". To these folks, it was a thing they gave Mantic money to produce and was an important item to them.

Like I said, I love their games, but Mantic keeps altering the deal from what was promised during the funding period and it's getting tiring...

The current Mantica map is pure rubbish, consider it a favor they picked something else to print.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
The current Mantica map is pure rubbish, consider it a favor they picked something else to print.

Whatever the quality, it was a thing promised during funding that they decided not to make.

Just like the adventure books in Dungeon Saga that I pledged for. I wanted multiple copies to keep on the "borrow a book" shelf in my wife's classroom. Ended up buying dice sets because Mantic decided not to make print versions in the end.

It's just irritating when they alter the deal. I pray they do not alter it further...

It's not that they decided not to include a print though. They probably were going to send the intern the print shoppe or whatever they call it in the UK and someone probably asked "hey aren't we changing this map in like 2 months anyway" and they changed the file.

 Azazelx wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
That is unbelievably bad. What a mess of sloppy texture, hacky musculature on a half assed frame.
Can not believe the sort of nonsense they are allowed to release as one of the biggest gaming companies in the world.

Just sayin'.

Other people's garbage does not excuse your own. That mini has been mocked for years and dragged out at every opportunity. Look how many people are happily swallowing this load and claiming it fits the style of the army. If a startup previewed this mini for a KS it would be told to go back to. The drawing board and to hire professional sculptors.


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 dragqueeninspace wrote:

Mantic are nowhere near the biggest gaming company in the world, they are not even the biggest wargaming company in the city.

ONE of.

 Alex C wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
The current Mantica map is pure rubbish, consider it a favor they picked something else to print.

Whatever the quality, it was a thing promised during funding that they decided not to make.

Just like the adventure books in Dungeon Saga that I pledged for. I wanted multiple copies to keep on the "borrow a book" shelf in my wife's classroom. Ended up buying dice sets because Mantic decided not to make print versions in the end.

It's just irritating when they alter the deal. I pray they do not alter it further...

I have to agree here. The reneging of printed adventure books really upset me. They were the main thing I was pledging for. In the end, I used those funds to get a plastic Valandor and a Blaine, but what I really wanted were some adventure books. Even if Mantic had lost some money bringing them to print on KS funds, those books would have provided them with a lot of opportunity to reach new markets and bring new people to Mantica.


Ps: have we seen any pictures of how Valndor turned out?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


Ps: have we seen any pictures of how Valndor turned out?

from Chilling Wargamers

That looks really really bad.....

Is that a production version?

I'm honestly pretty happy with that mini because it happens to align with my interests in what a Valandor should be. However, I am surprised at how soft the detail is, especially on his face and hands. Looks like he was carved from soap, and not the good soap, either, but like 1hour motel soap. The detail on his armor reminds me a lot of Confrontation: AoR, but it seems a little chintzy for a wizard-warrior Moses Jesus.


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He looks kind of like a Marvel Movie Simon Belmont printed at low resolution. Maybe that's why I'm so happy with the end result.

 plastictrees wrote:
Look how many people are happily swallowing this load and claiming it fits the style of the army.

Looks like you are confusing "I don't like this miniature" with "this miniature is bad". If the vast majority of people think a miniature is bad then yes, that's probably true. That does not seem to be the case. Just accept that you don't like it, others do, and move on. Besides, the Razorgor is hardly the only GW kit with questionable design. The Slaughterbrute/Vortex Beast monster kit comes to mind.

overtyrant wrote:
That looks really really bad.....

Could be the colour of the plastic is making the detail hard to see. (This is a problem with pictures of Bones miniatures)

Ashitaka wrote:

overtyrant wrote:
That looks really really bad.....

Could be the colour of the plastic is making the detail hard to see. (This is a problem with pictures of Bones miniatures)

Isn't that a rendered image?

No that's a production miniature as can be seen here:



The detail does look a bit soft in places especially the hands which is surprising for a larger miniature.

Is that actually soft detail or gakky camera/flash syndrome on slightly glossy material?

(and another reason why GW, Mantic, etc, should release actual professional pics of their crap instead of letting gakky cell phone pics out first)

Dave C, my mistake. For some reason, I thought he was talking about the Greater Abyssal, not Valandor.

I can definitely see the Belmont style armor like Bob mentioned.

Hope that softness is just camera glare reflecting.

Love that spear tip. Depending on how much of the softness is just the Barbara Walters filter, I may have to buy some more Valandors to make some Stormcast Eternal something-or-others. Also, Reaper's weapons of virtue sprue will do wonders for Valandor.


Assuming one can still get plastic Valandors for reasonable prices in the not too distant future.

That looks like unmistakably soft detail, imo - look at the hands.

Still, my gaming group is gearing up for KoW and we'll just continue to keep an eye on Mantic models - ones that are worth buying I will (like the Abyssal Golems) and ones that aren't, I'll just ignore and use other models for (that is a really good decision on their part to get people playing their game).

Is that greater demon the same size as an LOTR Balrog? I might just buy a balrog if I'm going to end up trying to salvage that demon with a lot of sculpting anyway.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
Look how many people are happily swallowing this load and claiming it fits the style of the army.

Looks like you are confusing "I don't like this miniature" with "this miniature is bad". If the vast majority of people think a miniature is bad then yes, that's probably true. That does not seem to be the case. Just accept that you don't like it, others do, and move on. Besides, the Razorgor is hardly the only GW kit with questionable design. The Slaughterbrute/Vortex Beast monster kit comes to mind.

Nope. This isn`t fine art. Obviously there are subjective elements but ultimately this is a craft and that mini is an example of a very poor attempt at the craft of mini sculpting.
Why is GW also producing dubious miniatures always brought up as a counter argument? If we, as a community, accept garbage from miniature companies we will continue to receive garbage.

That paladin type above is another great example. That's a production plastic/resin? That would be shot down as a pre-production test print by companies with any sort of qc standards, and would lose any running KS a ton of backers.

Anyway, this isn't a new conversation. Mantic will continue to be the manic depressive of sculpt quality until they get someone with integrity running their design department or until people stop paying up front for a mixed bag of awesome and garbage.

 plastictrees wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
Look how many people are happily swallowing this load and claiming it fits the style of the army.

Looks like you are confusing "I don't like this miniature" with "this miniature is bad". If the vast majority of people think a miniature is bad then yes, that's probably true. That does not seem to be the case. Just accept that you don't like it, others do, and move on. Besides, the Razorgor is hardly the only GW kit with questionable design. The Slaughterbrute/Vortex Beast monster kit comes to mind.

Nope. This isn`t fine art. Obviously there are subjective elements but ultimately this is a craft and that mini is an example of a very poor attempt at the craft of mini sculpting.
Why is GW also producing dubious miniatures always brought up as a counter argument? If we, as a community, accept garbage from miniature companies we will continue to receive garbage.

That paladin type above is another great example. That's a production plastic/resin? That would be shot down as a pre-production test print by companies with any sort of qc standards, and would lose any running KS a ton of backers.

Anyway, this isn't a new conversation. Mantic will continue to be the manic depressive of sculpt quality until they get someone with integrity running their design department or until people stop paying up front for a mixed bag of awesome and garbage.

I don't think me or anyone else tried to present it as 'fine art' so that's hardly a counterpoint. You have no basis for your claim beyond simply not liking it yourself. The fact that GW made terrible models while still being the biggest company in the industry is simply a counterpoint to your claimed disbelief that a company is "allowed" to produce. We are saying "its really not all that uncommon, get over it and move on." And on that latter note, I will be moving on.

I agree, however, that the paladin is terrible. Decent idea, but if the details are actually that soft it's simply unacceptable in my eyes.

 plastictrees wrote:

Other people's garbage does not excuse your own. That mini has been mocked for years and dragged out at every opportunity. Look how many people are happily swallowing this load and claiming it fits the style of the army. If a startup previewed this mini for a KS it would be told to go back to. The drawing board and to hire professional sculptors.

Honestly, while I'm not sure if I like it, I don't hate it. It's better than a lot of what they've put out in the past. It does seem like a figures that - as someone else suggested - was rendered at the same size as the others and then printed out at 10x the size.


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 dragqueeninspace wrote:

Mantic are nowhere near the biggest gaming company in the world, they are not even the biggest wargaming company in the city.

ONE of.

I'm not sure they even qualify as that, to tell you the truth. They seem 3rd or 4th tier. Obviously Wizards and Wizkids and GW are top-tier. Warlord, Battlefront, etc would be second-tier and Mantic, CMoN, etc would probably be third-tier.

Do CMoN actually produce anything? I wouldn't even put them in that category. If anything they are just a publisher aren't they? (I may of course be totally wrong)

 Azazelx wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:

Other people's garbage does not excuse your own. That mini has been mocked for years and dragged out at every opportunity. Look how many people are happily swallowing this load and claiming it fits the style of the army. If a startup previewed this mini for a KS it would be told to go back to. The drawing board and to hire professional sculptors.

Honestly, while I'm not sure if I like it, I don't hate it. It's better than a lot of what they've put out in the past. It does seem like a figures that - as someone else suggested - was rendered at the same size as the others and then printed out at 10x the size.


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 dragqueeninspace wrote:

Mantic are nowhere near the biggest gaming company in the world, they are not even the biggest wargaming company in the city.

ONE of.

I'm not sure they even qualify as that, to tell you the truth. They seem 3rd or 4th tier. Obviously Wizards and Wizkids and GW are top-tier. Warlord, Battlefront, etc would be second-tier and Mantic, CMoN, etc would probably be third-tier.

He didn't say wargaming he said gaming. They are a small company, although not tiny in an industry full of small and tiny companies.

overtyrant wrote:
Do CMoN actually produce anything? I wouldn't even put them in that category. If anything they are just a publisher aren't they? (I may of course be totally wrong)

CMON produce Dark Age which is a fully fledged tabletop game along with all their publishing partnerships

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

overtyrant wrote:
Do CMoN actually produce anything? I wouldn't even put them in that category. If anything they are just a publisher aren't they? (I may of course be totally wrong)

CMON produce Dark Age which is a fully fledged tabletop game along with all their publishing partnerships

I completely forgot about Dark Age as it's been sooooo long since I played it lol! I probably wouldn't count the publishing partnerships as they don't make them. In that light I would actually put Mantic on a rung above CMoN. And I've completely forgot what the point of this was!

Rather the art than the map, but I can see why people would be annoyed about it. If that Valandor truly is the production mini and not someone's half eaten jelly baby then that is just awful. Really awful.

I really do not like the Greater Abyssal miniature for so many reasons, but what I do like about Mantic and KoW is their allowance of alternative miniatures....hence when I get around to looking at starting an Abyssal army Meirce will feature heavily.