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A short teaser about new game KoW Champions, a "small scale rank'n'file game". Small scale means 10mm??

https://youtu.be/LPsuodLg1_A?si=yXs1mcIAkphdHuEC

I don't know anything more for watching this video except Mantic's 2d art is also "almost"

we know now which new named heroes are coming

and it is the stand alone version of Ambush

Johanxp wrote:
A short teaser about new game KoW Champions, a "small scale rank'n'file game". Small scale means 10mm??

https://youtu.be/LPsuodLg1_A?si=yXs1mcIAkphdHuEC

They appear to mean that there are a small number of units and models.

The art is probably a fairly good representation of what the hero models will be. I am definitely excited for this.

Just pulling this out of thin air. Fixed forces built around a named character. Maybe a few lists to chose from, unlocking various bonuses.

I dont see any mention of "smapl scale". Given the name and artwork and thene, this is almosr certainly a skirmish scale rank n flank warband game at 28mm

Small scale is language they used on facebook but they also said skirmish and they also said rank and flank so they've said... a lot of things while also sort of saying nothing. But if it's out in April we don't have long to wait for details. Pretty sure it's gonna be Ambush boxes with a hero character included to make each list a bit more "themey" and be Kings of War's answer to Spearhead.

Billicus wrote:
Kings of War's answer to Spearhead.

I thought Spearhead was Sigmar's answer to Ambush.

I having a hard time getting hyped about this.
It's not sounding significantly different from Ambush, but isn't the skirmish game I wish they'd make either.
Probably more me than Mantic, though. I've been getting back into historical lately and barely have time for one wargame.

I just wanted Mantic's "not-Warmaster" to sit alongside "not-Epic".

10mm KoW is such an obvious slam dunk... this is just comparatively disappointing.

Kings of War already translates pretty well/easily to smaller scales, and there are a lot of sellers doing 10mm fantasy either as stls or physical prints.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I just wanted Mantic's "not-Warmaster" to sit alongside "not-Epic".

10mm KoW is such an obvious slam dunk... this is just comparatively disappointing.

Atlantic is doing 10mm fantasy rules this year, I expect it won't be locked just to their model line.

Billicus wrote:
Kings of War already translates pretty well/easily to smaller scales, and there are a lot of sellers doing 10mm fantasy either as stls or physical prints.

With it's aim towards large battles and lack of casualty removal, KOW already reads as a ruleset designed for 6-15mm figures. Just change the inches to cm and you're there.

I doubt Mantic would do anything so simple as it would cannibalize their 28mm sales. If they do 10mm figures it will likely be with a new ruleset.

lord_blackfang wrote:
Atlantic is doing 10mm fantasy rules this year, I expect it won't be locked just to their model line.

Not sure how they would, even if they wanted to.

Eilif wrote:
I doubt Mantic would do anything so simple as it would cannibalize their 28mm sales. If they do 10mm figures it will likely be with a new ruleset.

Not to mention that there's already mini and scale agnostic wargames rules too.

 DarkBlack wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:
Atlantic is doing 10mm fantasy rules this year, I expect it won't be locked just to their model line.

Not sure how they would, even if they wanted to.

By which I meant "I hope they don't only make stats for the models they currently sell" - which by the time of publishing will likely be at most Orcs, Dwarfs and Skeletons

Pre-orders for this and more details are coming on Friday.

TAKE A MOMENT, AND JUST IMAGINE

What if there was a fantasy wargame that could give you:

Massive & strategic fun...in a small play area.
Rank-and-flank thrills...that play in under an hour.
Hero-led mechanics...that enhance, not overpower.
Exciting factions to explore...each in one great-value box.

Now that's exciting enough to get even an ogre's imagination going!

LEGENDS FORGED IN BATTLE

As new legends rise across Pannithor, ordinary folk have caught fleeting glimpses of strange and mighty Champions leading their trusted companies into combat...


Prepare to immerse yourself in a world of fantasy adventure with a cast of heroes and villains, all brought to life with amazing MasterCraft Resin.

This new material is easy to build, has lots of detail for painters, and is durable enough for worry-free gaming. You're going to love it!

In other words: KoW Combat Patrol, and they will make em in new resin.

Looks good and promising can you revive Vanguard instead, or at least make it more Conquest: First Blood?

There are podcasts with Rob and Andy being interviewed about Champions out today, I prefer to read than listen to waffle but the actual preorder starts tomorrow apparently so not long to wait for specifics

One Podcast today, the other tomorrow (Counter Charge and Mantic Universe Podcast)

What I got by now:
won't replace Ambush, fixed lists, starts with 4 faction boxes, 1 starter set with 2 boxes, 1 new box per month until the end of year (9 total)
Rules are different to Kings of War for more dynamic play (like no stuck in combat)
Character progression in campaigns (and Heroes can lose xp as well)
Background for each of the special companies

Map size is based on most common table size from Ikea and therefore 24"x42"

New resin isn't made in house but the same material used for the special event Halo models

New plastics coming with Champion get stand alone boxes (Basilea Knights)

As expected, a game no one needed or asked for, as Ambush already filled that roll. I'm a mega Mantic fanboy, but this still feels like a very rare wholesale miss.

Well Ronnie and Matt asked Rob to come in to write it so someone asked for it

So my takeaways are yes it is an actual entry level, stripped back, KoW intro system and not just KoW with a few units (Ambush) but I'm not sure where Ambush sits now. The Counter Charge lads even said that they would just play KoW over Ambush on an evening at a Tournament where as Champions would get played at the relaxed Beer N Pretzels level.

I'm going to give it a go though, for sure. Give me a 2 player starter set and a quick fun system and I'm all yours.

Interested to see where Champions goes. KoW is already a pretty light system, what more are they going to shave off?

I'm already drowning in Fantasy miniatures. Will rules and lists be available for this separately?

Yeah, Kings of War already plays pretty fast and if you want to do low model count, it's totally doable (just play Ogres). Ambush has never really appealed to me on that basis. As a *product* this makes a bit more sense to me - hero characters are cool, premade lists are good for accessibility, kings of war is there if you want to take it to the next level. It's a much better gateway than a single based skirmish game like Vanguard.


They have said separate rulebooks will be available and that's generally their style (deadzone, firefight, kings of war all have standalone rulebooks)

So we learned:

1) Primovantor has a printing press newspaper
2) It looks like absolute trash made in a free editor's default font

 Tabletop_Magpie wrote:
but I'm not sure where Ambush sits now.

I would say at the same place as before, 750-1500 points Kings of War

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
As expected, a game no one needed or asked for, as Ambush already filled that roll. I'm a mega Mantic fanboy, but this still feels like a very rare wholesale miss.

I guess the point is, it is the game no one is asking for, because the target audiance are those who don't yet play a game

and currently the only other entry level Rank&File game is A Song of Ice and Fire

 kodos wrote:

 Tabletop_Magpie wrote:
but I'm not sure where Ambush sits now.

I would say at the same place as before, 750-1500 points Kings of War

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
As expected, a game no one needed or asked for, as Ambush already filled that roll. I'm a mega Mantic fanboy, but this still feels like a very rare wholesale miss.

I guess the point is, it is the game no one is asking for, because the target audiance are those who don't yet play a game

and currently the only other entry level Rank&File game is A Song of Ice and Fire

If you want a miniatures-and-rules combo yes, but there's a number of well-reviewed rulesets by known writers for rank-and-flank that have been released recently. Oathmark and Hobgoblin come to mind. And of course there's also Age of Fantasy Regiments. Though of the lot, I'd still prefer Kings of War.

And none of those is really an entry level game or aimed for beginners.

They are no different to KoW (and Ambush) were you need to know the game before you can buy models to have a small game.

 kodos wrote:

 Tabletop_Magpie wrote:

but I'm not sure where Ambush sits now.

]I would say at the same place as before, 750-1500 points Kings of War

I get that, but if you can just play KoW at those points anyway, does Ambush need to be its own product? The Ambush boxes will still retail next to KoW and Champions and I can't see smaller stores stocking three boxes of, essentially, the same units. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Ambush move to Direct Only.

Just to reiterate though, I am very much looking forward to Champions!

Uhh, Ambush boxes are just Mantic discount bundles, they're not really related to the Ambush game mode.

They're sold as Ambush Starter Sets. It's on the box.

edit - but so is Kings of War in a MASSIVE font size