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...are they still even Redshirts? Black shirts? Loyal Minions of the Evil Empire?

Anyway, I had a slightly odd encounter today. Recently, a friend gave me two gifts - still sealed copies of Blood Island and the Mines of Moria game. Basically, he decided I should have them as a birthday present. Which is annoying because A) I just sold a copy of each of those and B) my Birthday is in March. He cheerfully pointed out there are two, so now he doesn't need to remember next years either.

I don't play Lord of the Rings, and I don't like Elves. The Skaven were tempting, but I decided to return both boxes and get there value in models for armies I play, Azhag the Slaughterer especially has been calling to me. So I take them down only to be told by the guy that, no, I can't return them. Even though they're still fully sealed I don't have a receipt...nor do the boxes have official Games Workshop stickers on them to prove they were bought there.

A who with a what now?

Now, I've always been under the impression that if something is faulty, or if it's still sealed as these were, I could return them for credit even if I couldn't get cashy money. Even without a receipt. The fact that the stickers were peeled off never even occurred to me. This page - http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=5700001a - seems to suggest I can return them, but it doesn't mention if they were bought from somewhere other than a GW.

I was honest - I have no idea where they were bought from. My friend gets half his stuff from Games Workshop and half from online retailers...if he's over excited he'll go to GW to buy it, so it's a 50/50 chance it came from that shop before this dude worked there. But the guy was not gonna give me anything without those stickers, and for obvious reasons I don't have a receipt, so...

So, anyway...has there been a change in policy I haven't seen? Or was this guy wrong? Help and suggestions would be appreciated. Having seen how much the damned things cost to ship, I'm loathe to try selling them again and besides, I think I'll get more models this way. And maybe the Ciaphas Cain novel. So I'd prefer to exchange them. But if that's not possible...

I have no idea about returning products aside from if you bought at a X store with a receipt and you went back to X store with said receipt. Its probably standard on what they do, after all as you pointed out your friend could have gotten them from online retailers which usually charge less

Only thing I ever hear about customer service for GW is replacing faulty parts by giving you an entire box

That's what I'd assume for most stores, certainly, but I was under the impression GW was somewhat different. This is from the link I posted;

4 No-quibble Exchange or Refund
There's no need to worry about buying the wrong gift at Games Workshop. We have a no-quibble, no-questions-asked exchange policy and will happily exchange returned gifts for other products, store credit or a refund. You can call Customer Service on the number above for support or return any product to your local Games Workshop Hobby Centre, whether it was bought in one of our stores or at games-workshop.com.

That was pretty much what I was expecting...minus the 'no stickers, no credit' thing.

I've heard of this happening a few times over the years (the best one was a paranoid staff member claiming that he couldn't do an exchange even though the item was still shrink-wrapped, because there was supposedly a huge scam running at the time (which nobody else appeared to have heard of) where online resellers were removing sprues from boxes, re-shrink-wrapping them and selling them as new...) but it's generally just down to an over-zealous staff member.

Ask a different staff member, or speak to his manager, and you would probably get an altogether different reception.

That's never happened to me. I've swapped a few things from unwanted gifts in my time, and usually to a different GW.

I even once returned those abysmal Planetstrike Craters for a full refund and I didn't buy them at GW.

I vote :Redshirt couldn't be bothered.

Either try again at a different GW, or at a different time.. OR Call GW direct and tell them what happened and ask what you should do.. lol

Policy is clear, they swap stuff all the time, so long as its unopened.

That's what I thought. Thanks Dakka! You're my Interweb heroes!

I know another guy, whose just a regular minion (I believe the one I spoke to is a management grade minion, forged from the somewhat more acceptable souls GW has claimed) who might be a little more helpful. I'll try again and see how it goes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Having called GW Customer Services...no, I'm not allow to exchange stuff. Apparently it can only be done at the shop it was bought at now, and since I don't know where it was bought...

Jon Garrett wrote:That's what I thought. Thanks Dakka! You're my Interweb heroes!

I know another guy, whose just a regular minion (I believe the one I spoke to is a management grade minion, forged from the somewhat more acceptable souls GW has claimed) who might be a little more helpful. I'll try again and see how it goes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Having called GW Customer Services...no, I'm not allow to exchange stuff. Apparently it can only be done at the shop it was bought at now, and since I don't know where it was bought...

That's unlucky dude. Our store manager is really nice, and he's let me return stuff before so it's seems a bit odd that you can no longer do it.

But without your reciept how do they prove you didnt buy it there?

Ugly Green Trog wrote:But without your reciept how do they prove you didnt buy it there?

They don't need to. The law is clear that the burden of proof is on the customer to retain a receipt.

@OP
I would advise you to contact GW customer services about it.

But returning faulty products to your favorite FLGS is something different than a stranger coming with 200$ of products wanting to trade them for other products.

Under English law the retailer is only required to give a refund if the consumer has the receipt.

Otherwise I could buy £90 of stuff from Maelstrom, take it to GW and get £100 cash refund for it.

Rinse and repeat.

Many retailers have operated a very liberal refund/exchange policy. When enough people took advantage, then it became uneconomical and they had to stop. I have seen this happen at HMV, Selfridges and Marks & Spencer.

Only GW will be able to confirm their current policy which is supposed to operate across all shops, however some local managers might do something different.

You're lucky that they have a return and exchange policy that applies if you have the original receipt.

In the UK the law states that unless the goods you bought are faulty or not as described, the retailler has no obligation to do more than provide a replacement if the receipt is produced.

So many companies are willing to exchange, offer credit or even refund with an original receipt in this country that people have started to think that it's a consumers right.

The idea of walking into a GW store and asking to have something refunded or exchanged without a receipt is quite frankly ridiculous.

Kilkrazy wrote:Under English law the retailer is only required to give a refund if the consumer has the receipt.

Otherwise I could buy £90 of stuff from Maelstrom, take it to GW and get £100 cash refund for it.

Rinse and repeat.

I don't think you need a receipt specifically, just some form of proof of purchase. Though the retailer is not obliged to give you anything unless the product is faulty/damaged/not fit for purpose. However seeing as Games Workshop is the only manufacturer, I would have thought that was proof enough that the product was 'at some point' purchased from them. Obviously a exchange for cash might not be tenable, but exchanging for a similar product or store credit shouldn't be out of the question, if that is also their policy for people with receipts.

I would suggest that you try again. Another employee might be less pedantic.

I've seen this sort of policy rear it's head at the Seattle Bunker. Basically, unless you can show a receipt that you bought it there, they will only exchange or give you a gift card (full purchase value). I'm not sure why they're doing this but suspect it may be to stop people from buying from deep discounters or shoplifting and returning product at another GW storefor a profit.

Then again I may be completely wrong.

Breotan wrote:I've seen this sort of policy rear it's head at the Seattle Bunker. Basically, unless you can show a receipt that you bought it there, they will only exchange or give you a gift card (full purchase value). I'm not sure why they're doing this but suspect it may be to stop people from buying from deep discounters or shoplifting and returning product at another GW storefor a profit.

Then again I may be completely wrong.

This is honestly what sounds to be the 'best' answer for this particular situation.

English law is quite clear. The contract is between the buyer and the retailer, not between the buyer and the original manufacturer of the good.

GW is not obliged to replace or refund defective items unless bought directly from one of their shops, and then you need a receipt.

They do usually have a more liberal policy, and that is why it is worth checking with their main customer service line.

Yeah smacks is correct .
You do have options tho
1sell them online for a reduced price
2. Try again
3.sell them to people in the store for a reduced price ( ideally right in front of the staff - you will have to do this outside ! )
4 . Some people might suggest purchasing the same products again using a bank card . Then get a itemized statement from the bank use this as prof of purchase to return 1 set and use your recipe to return the other ! But this would be wrong so don't do that .
5 apply to the low nerd like staff .befriend them by them a kitten and when there your best friend ( won't take long there not used to friends) then swoop in and Exchange it ! ( then burn the kitten for being a heretic ! )
6. Be nice give them to someone or a group who would benefit from them.

Smacks wrote: However seeing as Games Workshop is the only manufacturer, I would have thought that was proof enough that the product was 'at some point' purchased from them.

A receipt helps prove that it was actually purchased, rather than having just walked out of the store under someone's jacket.

insaniak wrote:

Smacks wrote: However seeing as Games Workshop is the only manufacturer, I would have thought that was proof enough that the product was 'at some point' purchased from them.

A receipt helps prove that it was actually purchased, rather than having just walked out of the store under someone's jacket.

Even if it was stolen, Games Workshop don't really loose anything further by exchanging it. Also accusing a paying customer of stealing just because they don't have a receipt is quite insulting. I would have asked to speak to the manager and complained about the redshirt if he insinuated that I would steal miniatures or try to exchange counterfeit miniatures, seriously what's the guys problem? If you were the kind of person who steals miniatures, why would you bother talking to the redshirt at all? When you could just go steal the miniatures that you wanted. Saying "it was a present" is a perfectly legitimate excuse for not having the receipt or tags.

Standard GW policy is to exchange for product of same value, no questions asked if you don't have a receipt.
That has been the same in every GW I have ever been a regular at ( there have been a few!).

I would suggest that the guy is possibly new or maybe just unclear on what he can do.

I am confused as to the response of customer services- again this is new and never been an issue before. Normally it doesn't matter where you buy it if you only want to exchange.

Even if it was stolen, Games Workshop don't really loose anything further by exchanging it.

If you can explain this with reference to the real world, you deserve the Nobel prize for Economics.

Also accusing a paying customer of stealing just because they don't have a receipt is quite insulting. I would have asked to speak to the manager and complained about the redshirt if he insinuated that I would steal miniatures or try to exchange counterfeit miniatures, seriously what's the guys problem?

Then you had better complain to the manager of every shop you go in where an assistant approaches you to ask you 'if they can help you' or 'are you looking for anything in particular'. Sometimes they are doing it because it is policy, or they are bored - but generally they are doing it because they suspect you of being a shoplifter and are letting you know they have their eye on you, especially if the shop is busy.

marielle wrote:

Then you had better complain to the manager of every shop you go in where an assistant approaches you to ask you 'if they can help you' or 'are you looking for anything in particular'. Sometimes they are doing it because it is policy, or they are bored - but generally they are doing it because they suspect you of being a shoplifter and are letting you know they have their eye on you, especially if the shop is busy.

Agree...

People are horribly unethical and commit fraud all the time at the expense of liberal exchange policies. And then they brag about it on the internet.

I begrudge no business for exercising its rights at any time and denying any exchange or return that strikes them as odd or wrong. If you can't find a receipt then go sell it on ebay or trade with a friend.

I think it is fine to assume every non-receipt return or exchange is the result of theft. I have witnessed more than once people taking things right off the shelf at a store, walking to the return line and try to return it for store credit.

I imagine it'd be quite difficult for someone to shoplift an IoB or Mines of Moria kit.


With that said, I'm actually not sure about consumer rights laws, but I don't think they have to accept a return or exchange without a receipt. Generally most places will do an exchange without one as long as the returned item is unopened, but again, they're not obligated to. At least in the US.

Not sure, I can't remember the last time I returned something.

Smacks wrote:Even if it was stolen, Games Workshop don't really loose anything further by exchanging it.

They stop the shoplifter who just stole whatever was convenient (like a high-priced, easily pocketable blister) from exchanging it for something that he actually wants. That counts as a win in my book.

Also accusing a paying customer of stealing just because they don't have a receipt is quite insulting.

Indeed it is... but that's not what I was suggesting. Potential shoplifters are one of the reasons for a policy requiring proof of purchase... but that doesn't mean that a store is accusing you of being a shoplifter by insisting on proof of purchase. Just like the existence of a law requiring you to drive at the speed limit doesn't mean that the government is accusing everyone of speeding.

marielle wrote:Then you had better complain to the manager of every shop you go in where an assistant approaches you to ask you 'if they can help you' or 'are you looking for anything in particular'. Sometimes they are doing it because it is policy, or they are bored - but generally they are doing it because they suspect you of being a shoplifter and are letting you know they have their eye on you, especially if the shop is busy.

That's not actually quite true. Deterring potential shoplifters is indeed one of the reasons for training staff to approach customers, but as witht he proof of purcahse thing, it's a long leap from there to 'If a staff member approaches you, it's because they think you're a shoplifter.' Because the bigger reason for doing it is simply that it's good customer service...

It is pretty strange- I never had a problems exchanging wrapped stuff for store credit, only time they asked me for a receipt was when they thought I wanted a refund (which I didn't anyway). I would try again and say that you never heard about the pact that yopu need receipts for exchanging stuff if its sjrink wrapped.

One of the more common frauds is when a bunch of boxes or blisters are about to become obsolete, like when a new edition comes out, and many FLGS and online retailers release them for rock bottom clearance prices.

People then buy up a bunch of them then try to walk into GW and expect to exchange them for full store credit. This happened right before Islands of blood came out as the night gobbo/dwarf set went cheap, and people attempted to then return them to GW for exchanges.

It is fraud. It clutters inventory and your FLGS would *NEVER* take your 5 fantasy boxed sets for store credit without a receipt, but somehow GW should? What rationalization do they use? Because GW is evil? GW is overpriced? You deserve everything to be discounted and this is a way to get it?

A store that didn't sell you a product shouldn't be saddled with over inventory (especially old stuff that will never sell)

Most people, especially people in retail make snap judgements about customers intentions, and they always have the right to fall back to the stores policy which is 'gimmie a receipt.' Many of them will bend the rules based on the situation, but to demand it is arrogant and suspicious.

No receipt, no exchange... nothing wrong with that policy. Years of seeing the unethical toy swapers in the transformers community and the dirty sale exchanges of the wargaming community has left me no empathy for 'customers rights.'

marielle wrote:

Even if it was stolen, Games Workshop don't really loose anything further by exchanging it.

If you can explain this with reference to the real world, you deserve the Nobel prize for Economics.

It really isn't that complicated. If I have £100 worth of stock, and 10% gets stolen, then I will most probably have to write that stock off as a loss. I am left with £90 worth of stock. If I then exchange £10 worth of stock with a customer for £10 worth of stock then I haven't lost anything further from the exchange because I still have £90 worth of stock. Even if the exchange was for stolen stock 90+10-10 = 90.

insaniak wrote:

Smacks wrote:Even if it was stolen, Games Workshop don't really loose anything further by exchanging it.

They stop the shoplifter who just stole whatever was convenient (like a high-priced, easily pocketable blister) from exchanging it for something that he actually wants. That counts as a win in my book.

That is a good point, but you would also be inconveniencing honest customers for zero net gain... Which in the long run, is more likely to result in losses.

Also if someone is trying to steal stock that they want, I would rather they did it via a process that involves returning previously stolen stock. That is certainly preferable than forcing thieves to keep stolen stock that they don't want, and either stealing more or selling it on to a customer who should have purchased it from me.

I don't see any advantage in a policy that declines exchanges, except where the item being exchanged can't be resold for some reason.

Just to be utterly clear - I didn't steal anything. I promise! They really we're gifts! If I was gonna try and rip off GW I'm an ex-stockist, and still have access to stockist prices. This isn't how I'd be doing it.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Ugly Green Trog wrote:But without your reciept how do they prove you didnt buy it there?

They don't need to. The law is clear that the burden of proof is on the customer to retain a receipt.

@OP
I would advise you to contact GW customer services about it.

I have. Basically, GW seem to have a new policy. Here are the issues;

1 - They will not return ANY purchase worth over £100 without a receipt.

2 - They will not return ANY product bought after 14 days without a receipt to prove where you bought it. Apparently they can track purchases for 14 days, but these clearly fall outside that - I've had them longer than 14 days. Crap on a stick knows when they were actually purchased, or who from.

There may have been another clause, but those were the two that were biting me in the ass.

Could one of my UK brethren ring 0115 91 4000 at 10.00AM or after, and patiently spend 10 minutes or so being told they're next in the cue, to double check these for me and confirm it for the Dakkaites? Obviously, a single, unknown source is not nearly as useful as two. Folks from other nations may wanna try ringing up there Customer services as well.

This is clearly a very new policy. The redshirt I talked to it about had no clue what was going on, and would have returned the stuff if I'd not mentioned it (yes, I'm THAT honest) and had to call his manager to get the details. Customer services have said the same thing when I called them.