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Yeah, I agree....the name isnt that.....good. Its pretty bland as far as a name goes (personally Im not a fan of the 360, but the name is the best of the current consoles IMO) But I just read about the Wii U so far in a game informer and figured since Im the DAKKA Nintendo guy, Id post about it. Thigns are still pretty vague as far as details and all that (at least what I could find) but heres what Ive got so far. Its in HD and supposedly will have the same graphics power as current consoles right now. The biggest "inovation" is the controller. Its a big ol bulky looking thing with a touch screen in the middle, 2 joysticks and the usual buttons on it.

From what Ive been reading its both awesome and a bit awkward depending on what your doing. Its probably going to mostly be an inventory/map screen while playing and the testers have said when its an inventory, its fantastic, as you can simply tap the picture of say, a crossbow and itll trade out instantly in the game, so no more pausing mid game to change out things. Also like I said a map, so its right there at your finger tips. But they also said there was a shooter type demo at E3 that was a bit awkward to use, because you aimed (in that game mind you) with the controller. But in the video Im going to post, it looks more like a "scope" view , so to me that seems like itd be better/easier to actually use.

AND FINALLY Nintendo is going to start letting alot more 3rd party companies make games on the Wii U. For example the new Batman Arkem (that looks wrong but you get the idea) game that is coming out soon on the PS3/360 will be one of the launch titles for the Wii U. So basically whenever there is a cross platform game that comes out and looks good, chances are good itll be on the U as well. The also designed it with this type of game style in mind, so apparently its really easy to design games for the U. Itll launch sometime next year but from what I could find the cost wasnt listed. Id imagine being Nintendo, itll be fairly decently priced, that seems to be their thing lately, not to mention that has helped with their sales tremendously.

Personally, Im not sure yet, its no hidden fact Im a pretty big Nintendo fan. On one hand Im excited about the new console being in HD and the screen shots I saw it looks pretty impressive. But on the other hand, the controller is well...... heres a video for you all to see. I know theres alot of ANTI Nintendo guys in here, this isnt a PS3 IS BETTA! or 360 OWNZ!!!!!! type of discussion so leave that crap for another thread. This is more a what do you think of the "new" Nintendo coming out?

Vids




Legend of Zelda demo


Some new Mii demo



Again, it looks really cool and the boosts on the system sounds good, the controller seems kindda neat, but then again, Im not so sure because the size of it. DAKKA thoughts?

Supposedly it's going to be more powerful than the current generation of consoles.

Its possible I guess, that bird video certainly seems promising, as any new consoles go, the launch titles look good, but after a couple years the games look twice as nice

I'll most likely be getting it. I think the main reason I stopped touching my Wii is because it wasn't HD and PS3 games just looked so great on my big plasma tv.

I did hear it will have more power than PS3 & 360, but you know Sony and Microsoft will make a point to blow it away with the PS4 & 720 when they come out a year or so later.

I do kinda like the iPad controller idea. I'm sure once people get used to it you'll start seeing mini games for it instead of needing to fire up the whole system and it'll work as a mini web browser & e-reader and all that other tabletty stuff sooner or later.

I was gonna get the new Zelda for my Wii when it finally comes out but I might just skip it in hopes of it coming out for the Wii U too, like how twilight princess was just a gamecube port.

The new MS and Sony consoles are still many years away aren't they?

I think it is a HUGE jump from the Nintendo Wii and I would know i have the older Wii and I can't fin any good games on it, send me a P.M. if you know of any GREAT games for it, but as soon as Microsoft and Sony release there new console when ever Nintendo will behind once again.

Welp I found another video with some more titles on it. They look fantastic TBH.


As far as the next gen consoles go graphics wise, I really cant see them getting THAT much better compared to how they are now. Ive seen some mighty impressive games on the current gen consoles and sure they can be polished and so on, but graphics wise I think its pretty close to the end, personally I think the next gen consoles will really be about what ELSE they can do and how to go about it, micro games and so on. I know Im going to get the U when it drops, infact right now Im thinking about how much I should sell my modded Wii and other such things to get the funds for it. Anywho, enough blathering, HERES MORE TITLES!

And the song on it is pretty cool


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wow check out Ghost Recon on the U

KingCracker wrote:Yeah, I agree....the name isnt that.....good. Its pretty bland as far as a name goes (personally Im not a fan of the 360, but the name is the best of the current consoles IMO) But I just read about the Wii U so far in a game informer and figured since Im the DAKKA Nintendo guy, Id post about it. Thigns are still pretty vague as far as details and all that (at least what I could find) but heres what Ive got so far. Its in HD and supposedly will have the same graphics power as current consoles right now. The biggest "inovation" is the controller. Its a big ol bulky looking thing with a touch screen in the middle, 2 joysticks and the usual buttons on it.

From what Ive been reading its both awesome and a bit awkward depending on what your doing. Its probably going to mostly be an inventory/map screen while playing and the testers have said when its an inventory, its fantastic, as you can simply tap the picture of say, a crossbow and itll trade out instantly in the game, so no more pausing mid game to change out things. Also like I said a map, so its right there at your finger tips. But they also said there was a shooter type demo at E3 that was a bit awkward to use, because you aimed (in that game mind you) with the controller. But in the video Im going to post, it looks more like a "scope" view , so to me that seems like itd be better/easier to actually use.

AND FINALLY Nintendo is going to start letting alot more 3rd party companies make games on the Wii U. For example the new Batman Arkem (that looks wrong but you get the idea) game that is coming out soon on the PS3/360 will be one of the launch titles for the Wii U. So basically whenever there is a cross platform game that comes out and looks good, chances are good itll be on the U as well. The also designed it with this type of game style in mind, so apparently its really easy to design games for the U. Itll launch sometime next year but from what I could find the cost wasnt listed. Id imagine being Nintendo, itll be fairly decently priced, that seems to be their thing lately, not to mention that has helped with their sales tremendously.

Personally, Im not sure yet, its no hidden fact Im a pretty big Nintendo fan. On one hand Im excited about the new console being in HD and the screen shots I saw it looks pretty impressive. But on the other hand, the controller is well...... heres a video for you all to see. I know theres alot of ANTI Nintendo guys in here, this isnt a PS3 IS BETTA! or 360 OWNZ!!!!!! type of discussion so leave that crap for another thread. This is more a what do you think of the "new" Nintendo coming out?

Vids




Legend of Zelda demo


Some new Mii demo



Again, it looks really cool and the boosts on the system sounds good, the controller seems kindda neat, but then again, Im not so sure because the size of it. DAKKA thoughts?

Is that second game a sequel to the amazing Okami? If so I hope it's on 360 as well.

Im not really sure TBH. They said its just a demo to show the current graphic capabilities of the U (again, look at launch titles and then nearly double it and youll get the idea of what a console can do)
But I wouldnt be surprised, mainly because FINALLY Nintendo is opening its doors to 3rd party companies, so when theres a multi platform game coming it, itll be on all 3 instead of just the PS3/360

Zero interest again... I don't want a console based on one gimmick. Especialy if it sacrifices other things (like power) for that.

Wow nintendo is finally getting a next gen console?! Took them 7 bloody years.

I gotta say that I hope this fails, and fails badly.

Nintendo is absolutely amazing at putting out great games (even if they are from the same franchises for the last 20 years). But, they haven't had a quality console since the SNES.

I desperately want them to stop trying to make these inferior consoles successful, and start releasing their games to the 360/PS3 market.

KingCracker wrote:Im not really sure TBH. They said its just a demo to show the current graphic capabilities of the U (again, look at launch titles and then nearly double it and youll get the idea of what a console can do)
But I wouldnt be surprised, mainly because FINALLY Nintendo is opening its doors to 3rd party companies, so when theres a multi platform game coming it, itll be on all 3 instead of just the PS3/360

You have a Wii right? You should get Okami then, trust me you won't be disappointed.

I hate Nintendos ploy on releasing stuff thats "innovative" when there consoles are weak specs wise. They just simply ride off of the Nintendo name. However, I do have a Wii and I love playing Smash Bros online, Nintendo makes me mad because their 3rd party support for their console is terrible because its simply inferior (specs wise) to the other 2 on the market right now.

Grakmar wrote:I gotta say that I hope this fails, and fails badly.

Nintendo is absolutely amazing at putting out great games (even if they are from the same franchises for the last 20 years). But, they haven't had a quality console since the SNES.

I desperately want them to stop trying to make these inferior consoles successful, and start releasing their games to the 360/PS3 market.

I'm afraid I'll have to completley disagree with 95% of what you said here. Firstly, what are you ona about with "no quality consoles"? Lets look at the DS; completley innovative and new when it came out, has developed into the fantastic 3ds (arguably the best handheld made to date imo) with some AMAZING games to boot! Then the wii; I know it isnt the best console ever made and I'm not going to argue that, but it was still a completley new and fresh idea when they released it, and I personally loved it And finally, you want them to stop making "inferior" consoles successful, but that is the whole point in game development. Look at the original Xbox; quite possibly one of the worst consoles ever; yes it had good games but the controller was awkward and it was just plain wierd. Now look at the xbox 360; a pretty damn awesome console; all because microsoft tried to make their console better. Thats just what gaming companies do!
[rant over]

So yeah I'm looking forward to the wii you

Not really interested at all.

Yay! 800,000,000,000,000,000 more Mario games! Yay!

Sorry, it got old in the 90's. I'm not interested in moving around when I play games, I'm happy pressing a button to bring up my inventory and I like having a controller that doesn't need recharging every other day (guessing) because it doesn't have a power hungry screen and loads of sensors in it. Not interested in loads of simple games, games on rails, games for children and middle aged women etc, which leaves games that I have already bought on other consoles.

The Wii on U needs to do something pretty special to get my attention, and something even more impressive to get me to consider buying one.

cyberscape7 wrote: Lets look at the DS; completley innovative and new when it came out, has developed into the fantastic 3ds (arguably the best handheld made to date imo) with some AMAZING games to boot!

You mean that 3DS who's already selling almost half of what nintendo imagined, and is getting a price cut cause their stock rating dropped another 12%?

cyberscape7 Makes alot of good points though really. And you cant call the Wii an inferior console. They started the motion control everything really, now BOTH Playstation and XBOX have those inferior add ons. You cant ignore that, the Wii might be inferior spec wise, but the numbers dont lie heres a link http://www.vgchartz.com/article/80751/2010-year-on-year-sales-and-market-share-update-to-june-26th/ Wow. In the lead on damn near everything. They didnt MAKE the Wii to be the hardest pushing spec system out there, the PS3 can boast that one. They wanted a system to target a different type of gamer with new innovations then a controller with buttons, and they did just that. NOW they have all those people that didnt play games before, playing games, NOW they are coming out with the U that has some pretty impressive stats, and I bet itll STILL be cheaper by a lot when compared to the others, so those same gamers that werent gamers before, buy Nintendo and not the others.


Yes they have gimmicks to be sure, but Nintendo has ALWAYS had gimmicks



But thats not what we are talking about. Again I dont want this to turn into a spam fest about the Wii being a stupid tool and XBOX RULEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No, this is about the Wii U the new console coming out next year.

Heres the specs thus far
MEDIA:

A single self-loading media bay will play 12-centimeter proprietary high-density optical discs for the new console, as well as 12-centimeter Wii optical discs.

VIDEO OUTPUT:

Supports 1080p, 1080i, 720p, 480p and 480i. Compatible cables include HDMI, component, S-video and composite.

AUDIO OUTPUT:

Uses AV Multi Out connector. Six-channel PCM linear output through HDMI.

STORAGE:

The console will have internal flash memory, as well as the option to expand its memory using either an SD memory card or an external USB hard disk drive.

CPU:

IBM Power®-based multi-core microprocessor.

OTHER:

Four USB 2.0 connector slots are included. The new console is backward compatible with Wii games and Wii accessories.

I don't know about the ginormous controller. Is that the only option? Doesn't bode well for multiplayer either if each controller is $150.

No, the "new controller" is the main one from what it seems, but you still use Wii controllers regularly. So maybe you can use them for normal controllers

I want to like this console but I'm pretty skeptical.

IIRC there's only one tablet controller planned per console and you can't purchase another separately. Weeks ago they announced they were exploring using multiple tablets like bringing yours over to a friend's house or implementing the Nintendo handhelds, however that screams to me that they're half-assing things a bit. The console isn't that far from release and they don't have this decided yet? Doesn't seem very Nintendo-like but this could be outdated news. It seems weak that there's only 1 tablet planned and you either have to share it or use old Wii-compatible controllers.

I'll probably still end up buying the new Nintendo console since their first party content is imo by far the best and unique of the three major console companies especially since I generally play FPS on the PC anyway. Like already mentioned its great that Nintendo is being more developer friendly and that they're finally trying to lure more gamers from the Sony/MS crowd. Hopefully it doesn't turn out to be a glorified Dreamcast.

Ugh, the Dreamcast


But yea, the article I read actually brought up the multiple tablet thing. They said everytime they asked a Nintendo rep, they got groans/moans and we cant talk about it. So uh...... I really hope that was because they are trying to keep some of the good stuff secret? I dont see why you CANT have 2 or more tablets per Wii U. Obviously Im not a game programmer but I cant see how that would be difficult? I mean you can have 4 remotes on 1 Wii, it cant be TOO much different on the tablets. Maybe have any tablet that isnt 1st player, have less options/control over the game or system or something. But yea, I really hope that one is just a "phew we DO get more then 1 tablet"


Because I have children, I KNOW my first tablet will be broken eventually, so if they dont sell them on the side then..............................................................

When your companies stock drops 10% after announcing a new console, there's something wrong.

What's wrong? The Wii was a stretch. The Wii U is a leap of faith that I'd guess has about a 50% chance of bombing epically. Especially if it doesn't have a strong launch line up (ala the problem that struck the 3DS launch). For about a decade Nintendo's business model has been to sell their name (and generally living off their own nostalgia. How many times have the rereleased OoT now?) and that's a business model that can only last for so long. Consumer and Developers generally aren't interested in wacky gimmicky systems. The fact that the Wii's number one selling game is Wii sports (and variations there in) kind of speaks for that. That all the other high selling games for Wii are mostly made up Nintendo Classic's makes it worse. EDIT: Heck. They actually think this is going to lure in hardcore gamers! The same ones who never bought a Wii (or at least never admitted it) and constantly lambast it for being gimmicky. This is even more gimmicky than the Wii is.

This will be a really big problem with the desire for publishers to multi-platform increasing. Nintendo has always had a problem with alienating itself from third party development and they're making it worse with their odd control schemes that limit what kind of games they can play. Don't let a Batman game fool you. Porting between 360 and PS3 is essentially just a matter of hardware compatibility. Porting to the Nintendo systems (Wii and Wii U) requires completely remaking the game, almost from the ground up. Sure it opens new doors for gameplay, but it closes them all the same. I can appreciate originality and innovation, but there comes a point where it's tantamount to financial suicide.

Personally, I have the same opinion of this as the Wii. It's stupid. Just give me an analog controller. Half the people who use the Wii just use Gamecube controllers anyway (which the WII U will no support)!

Imo Nintendo will have to price aggressively like they did with the Wii in order to lure the market to supporting the console for 5+ years which seems to be their life-cycle.

I'm skeptical but I'll probably be buying this console anyway. Just having Nintendo first party support in higher resolutions has the potential to be awesome.

KingCracker wrote:Ugh, the Dreamcast


But yea, the article I read actually brought up the multiple tablet thing. They said everytime they asked a Nintendo rep, they got groans/moans and we cant talk about it. So uh...... I really hope that was because they are trying to keep some of the good stuff secret? I dont see why you CANT have 2 or more tablets per Wii U. Obviously Im not a game programmer but I cant see how that would be difficult? I mean you can have 4 remotes on 1 Wii, it cant be TOO much different on the tablets. Maybe have any tablet that isnt 1st player, have less options/control over the game or system or something. But yea, I really hope that one is just a "phew we DO get more then 1 tablet"


Because I have children, I KNOW my first tablet will be broken eventually, so if they dont sell them on the side then..............................................................

Yea I hope they do end up implementing multiple tablets. In addition to the reasons you listed I think pricing could be one of them. They might be able to save costs on the tablet by packaging it with the Wii U. Perhaps they also think a separate tablet would compete with their handheld console sales. Hopefully its just some good secret stuff instead!

Truth be told I actually liked the Dreamcast although business wise it didn't stack up in the long run.

Grakmar wrote:I gotta say that I hope this fails, and fails badly.

And then we'll have what, only 2 companies running the entire video game console industry?

Which will quickly be down to 1, as in the inevitable feud whoever gets the EA contract will get the monopoly.


Video gaming is in a serious state of decline right now, for no reason other than all the little companies are being bought up by the bucketful and the small number of major corporations are just churning out uninspiring sequels because we are moronic enough to buy them. The loss of nintendo would mean that Sony and Microshaft don't even need to start coming up with innovative mechanics to try and beat things such as motion control ( e.g. kinect and move were invented specifically to compete with wii motion control) because they can guarantee that people will buy their games, because there are no other competition to buy from...

Lordofhats - I can tell you are one of those "hardcore" type gamers that completely hate the Wii, and no matter what Nintendo puts out, youll be against it. Thats fine, its your opinion, but the problem is, in that feeling towards Nintendo, your blinding yourself to the good things that are suppose to come about in the U. Are they still going to make gimmicky games? Of course, thats how they lure in the 40+ crowd that never played video games before hand, not to mention those type of games are great for young children and just for killing 20 minutes before leaving to work.

Again, if you click on the link I posted previously about the sales numbers, youll also realize that Wii has incredibly strong numbers so OBVIOUSLY they know what the hell they are doing when it comes to pushing content. They already grabbed those "non gamers" with their cheesy games, they also have long time nostalgic gamers by pumping out the games they are known for (Good god I cant wait for a GOOD Kirby game to come out ) so with this system they are going to price it cheap to bring back more of the people they got through the Wii, but as an added bonus they will bring in a hardcore crowd. Also did you even watch all those videos?! The "new controller" is designed to be a regular controller with analogs and buttons that you get on any other platform, so the 3rd party guys dont have to redesign gameplay to fit on a motion controller. Again, another smart move by Nintendo.


But again, its still a year out, and theres still a couple things up in the air for me. The new controller seems a bit.....humongous to me and clunky, will the U support multiples of it? And will they stand by their 3rd party promise this time? If those 3 things work out then I think the Wii U will be a real bitch to beat, even more then the Wii is now, as far as numbers go. Im thinking they will, other wise why else would they build it so you can stick an external hard drive on it for extra space to save games and whatnot?

KingCracker wrote:Lordofhats - I can tell you are one of those "hardcore" type gamers that completely hate the Wii, and no matter what Nintendo puts out, youll be against it. Thats fine, its your opinion,

Indeed I am

but the problem is, in that feeling towards Nintendo, your blinding yourself to the good things that are suppose to come about in the U.

I recognize the possibilities just like I did with the Wii. But the Wii is a lot like these silly 3D movies. It's a passing fancy. A phenomenon. Now, the Wii and even the Wii U I think are arguably ahead of their time. Touch and motions are going to becomes stables of the game industry in the future (I think), but right now, the software capabilities of games is incapable of taking full advantage of these technologies to an exist that I think makes them viable.

Are they still going to make gimmicky games? Of course, thats how they lure in the 40+ crowd that never played video games before hand, not to mention those type of games are great for young children and just for killing 20 minutes before leaving to work.

Hence, Wii Sports and the large number of party games that seem to be the Wii's staple (Mario Kart, Smashbros etc)

Again, if you click on the link I posted previously about the sales numbers, youll also realize that Wii has incredibly strong numbers so OBVIOUSLY they know what the hell they are doing when it comes to pushing content.

Sales numbers are deceiving for the Wii. Game sales for it are exclusively limited to bundle packages and Nintendo titles. That, and who buys Nintendo titles? Usually they're bought by the hardcore Nintendo faithful, and by parents for kids. Fewer people buy Nintendo when buying for themselves (I have no real evidence, this is an observation I make. Being in college I get to see lots of people and what their game choices are, but it makes sense to me) They're making less money than Microsoft and Sony because they sell fewer games overall. Arguably, Nintendo has likely been profiting from Wii sales for awhile, but they have no market share on third party titles that I think is worth talking about. They're winning the console profit war but losing the game war which is where the real profit in video game consoles is. This isn't inherently a problem with Wii per se. Nintendo has a bad reputation with third parties. But their gimmicks don't help them win confidence or interest.

(Good god I cant wait for a GOOD Kirby game to come out )

We really haven't had one of those in awhile, have we

so with this system they are going to price it cheap to bring back more of the people they got through the Wii, but as an added bonus they will bring in a hardcore crowd.

Define hardcore I guess. People who take games way too seriously (serious buzniz) have never really liked Nintendo. They were PC gamers and then switched over to Sony or Microsoft when PC started tappering off. They've never had any love for Nintendo's game model or consoles. I see nothing in the Wii you to attract them, especially when people who play video games for hours on end, tend to be playing online multiplayer, an aspect of gaming that I've begun to think Nintendo is just incapable of grasping the basic concepts of.

Also did you even watch all those videos?!

Why bother? I already know what's in them (To clarify, I find reading news articles more expedient than listening to the windbags who take FOREVER to get to the point in silly demo videos).

The "new controller" is designed to be a regular controller with analogs and buttons that you get on any other platform, so the 3rd party guys dont have to redesign gameplay to fit on a motion controller.

A analog controller with no ergonomics. It's a brick. That flies with handhelds. I question it's viability for a console. Oh, and it has that silly touch screen. What's that doing there? It belongs on the DS

Now, the fear of a lack of support for multiple controllers seems silly to me. A launch title is supposedly a new Smashbros. When has that ever been fun with just one person

And will they stand by their 3rd party promise this time?

My guess is no. They've made this promise almost every two or three years for the past decade. Part of the problem is developers just aren't listening anymore. All the trouble with Nintendo in the late 90's helped facilitate the downfall of the N64 (among the 64's own lagging technology), rise of Sony, and the lagging sales of the Gamecube before the huge price drop. Problem is that if Nintendo is making hardware to compete with the 360 and PS3, and I have no idea why people say this, I haven't seen Nintendo say it anywhere, they won't be able to price aggressively. That would demand third party support that Nintendo does not have and will take years for them to get back. It also doesn't help that I have doubts about the viability of their control scheme. So many Nintendo games thrive on old fashion splitscreening or playing with friends. If the controller is too pricy, they risk losing one of their core advantages in the console war.

Third party development has evolved. The Wii may sell more than the 360 or the PS3, but the PS3 and 360 COMBINED sell more than the Wii. Multiplatforming is the staple of making profit, and the lagging hardware and odd systems the Nintendo has adopted for its business model leave them hanging in this respect.

If those 3 things work out then I think the Wii U will be a real bitch to beat, even more then the Wii is now, as far as numbers go. Im thinking they will, other wise why else would they build it so you can stick an external hard drive on it for extra space to save games and whatnot?

I'm reluctant to call it an absolute failure from the start. I said that about the Wii, and the Wii was at least a short term strategic victory with lots of financial bonus even if it was a long term dead end for technology right now. But hey, Nintendo can be called the miracle maker of video games. Mabe I'll be wrong again XD

Well you make some very good points, really its like 2 people looking at different sides of the same building. Obviously Im a bit of a Nintendo fan, so Ill admit that I do have some extra hopes/dreams tied up in it. But I will say, that you should compare both the PS3/360 to the Wii, as they are not the same console. Of course their numbers combined would be more then Nintendo. I could use that argument in saying well Toyota isnt so good, simply because Chevrolet and Dodge combined outsell them. But again, I see you points. Im still iffy on the "new controller" the ideas it has for its uses actually are pretty good ideas, thats what is making me push through the fact that like you said, its a damn brick with a DSi duct taped to it

KingCracker wrote:No, the "new controller" is the main one from what it seems, but you still use Wii controllers regularly. So maybe you can use them for normal controllers

Wii Controllers? I was under the impression this is a completely new system...

I won't be running out and buying it like I did with the Wii.

I don't really like the look of the tablet controller w/ sliders instead of analog sticks, I would much prefer a gamecube/360'ish controller.

Its hardware will trump current 360/PS3 tech, but what happens the year after that when then 720/PS4 comes out? Its hardware parity will disappear, and it will be back to the "bottom" system, with terrible 3rd party support, and the only things that are decent are 1st party, just like now.

While I'm a big fan of Nintendo's central brands, I wish they would just stop making the hardware and concentrate on the games.

daedalus-templarius wrote:Its hardware will trump current 360/PS3 tech, but what happens the year after that when then 720/PS4 comes out? Its hardware parity will disappear, and it will be back to the "bottom" system, with terrible 3rd party support, and the only things that are decent are 1st party, just like now.

Still waiting to see where people get this about the tech. Really. I've read numerous articles and I haven't seen Nintendo say it anywhere. Nintendo doesn't even need that level of graphical ability, the only thing they really lack. They've never released a game that attempted photorealism that I can think of.