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tetrisphreak wrote: I can't wait to play some games with the new rules and units.

I got to play a few games with new rules today, at my gw. I used 20 immortals, destroyers and stormlord. But that was all I could use since I don't know rules for any other units.

Some of you ripping apart wraiths and CC are not considering a couple rounds of night fight and lightning blasts giving way to an unstoppable barrage when YOU choose before any CC has happened. Don't think about how great the CC will be toe to toe against other factions CC. Think about how CC will be against whatever is left of other factions CC by the time they get into combat.

That's really just one example. Other than that, Necron is a shooty army, those wanting a deathstar CC unit that you can spam and win and faceroll need not apply. If you desire to have your list creation take 30 seconds and be made up of three different units the GK are right over there....

I'd agree with this. The Necrons are going to be (and should be) a very different type of army (gasp!). It really benefits 40k to have codices that bring something different to the table. I also think that they should have some big meta shakeups. Plopping down 8+ AV13 vehicles is a tough nut to crack. Even things like 3 Psyfleman and 3 units of Long Fangs are averaging around 3 total damage results per turn. Glances won't be that devastating because of living metal. Add in the ability to achieve at least one turn of night fight and the Crons will have the ability to get into position and shoot away relatively unmolested by the st 8 spam of the day.

woodbok wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote: I can't wait to play some games with the new rules and units.

I got to play a few games with new rules today, at my gw. I used 20 immortals, destroyers and stormlord. But that was all I could use since I don't know rules for any other units.

Don't they have the book on display?

Kurgash wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:I wouldn't refer to any changes as 'nerfs' yet.

Necrons as they stand currently are a bottom-tier, non-competitive codex. 3 mono, wraithwing builds according to DashofPepper are the bee's knees, but for the 95% of necron players winning tournaments just isn't in the cards with this codex.

These negative changes you're referring to have to be factored in with the army as a whole, not as isolated stat-nerfs. I can't wait to play some games with the new rules and units.

That and playing Monospam/Wraith wing takes about half a braincell to play.

\

Let's face it, playing Necrons thus far has never really been a, how to put it? Cerebral experience. The goodness of the 3E codex was condensed into a couple units and most games revolved around avoiding Phaseout.

In any case, it seems like we have a lot of new strategies to play around with this time around. VoD shenanigans with competent CC units, Night Fighting manipulation, various Cryptek loadouts, scarab rushes, interesting HQ abilities, etc.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

JGrand wrote:

Some of you ripping apart wraiths and CC are not considering a couple rounds of night fight and lightning blasts giving way to an unstoppable barrage when YOU choose before any CC has happened. Don't think about how great the CC will be toe to toe against other factions CC. Think about how CC will be against whatever is left of other factions CC by the time they get into combat.

That's really just one example. Other than that, Necron is a shooty army, those wanting a deathstar CC unit that you can spam and win and faceroll need not apply. If you desire to have your list creation take 30 seconds and be made up of three different units the GK are right over there....

I'd agree with this. The Necrons are going to be (and should be) a very different type of army (gasp!). It really benefits 40k to have codices that bring something different to the table. I also think that they should have some big meta shakeups. Plopping down 8+ AV13 vehicles is a tough nut to crack. Even things like 3 Psyfleman and 3 units of Long Fangs are averaging around 3 total damage results per turn. Glances won't be that devastating because of living metal. Add in the ability to achieve at least one turn of night fight and the Crons will have the ability to get into position and shoot away relatively unmolested by the st 8 spam of the day.

I'm waiting happily for what 2 turns of NF setup to get hordes of Immortals and ghost arks in position will end up looking like. Especially when/if the Rapidfire rules change.

No matter what army you're playing, you don't like it when your opponent belts out 80 shots of S5 AP4 rapidfire nonsense.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

woodbok wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote: I can't wait to play some games with the new rules and units.

I got to play a few games with new rules today, at my gw. I used 20 immortals, destroyers and stormlord. But that was all I could use since I don't know rules for any other units.

Don't they have the book on display?

Not at gw norwich they don't.

chaos0xomega wrote:

In regards to using extra warriors to make more lychguard/praetorians/deathmarks/immortals, I am not 100% but I think those models are quite clearly larger than the warriors themselves, I think it would be a difficult conversion to say the least.

Of course the actual models will be better options for those who have the money and I agree that lychguard/praetorians would not work on smaller warrior models. But I do think that using Immortals as Immortals and using the body of a warrior with a deathmarks own arms and head may actually be plausible.

Edit: spelling

ah, yes, that might actually work pretty well

With the Deathmarks, if you look at the sprue shot:


The torso looks like you just might be able to pull it off, provided you're willing to put a little elbow grease into the project.

Kanluwen wrote:With the Deathmarks, if you look at the sprue shot:
The torso looks like you just might be able to pull it off, provided you're willing to put a little elbow grease into the project.

I don't know kan... Im assuming the intention of using Necron Warrior to use up the extra Praetorian bits was to save money + use up the extra bits.
If by using Immortal kit ( equal value ) it defeats that purpose.

LunaHound wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:With the Deathmarks, if you look at the sprue shot:
The torso looks like you just might be able to pull it off, provided you're willing to put a little elbow grease into the project.

I don't know kan... Im assuming the intention of using Necron Warrior to use up the extra Praetorian bits was to save money + use up the extra bits.
If by using Immortal kit ( equal value ) it defeats that purpose.

Not praetorian or lychguard. only using the spare parts of deathmarks with warriors to save money + use up the extra bits.

I welcome the new unit choices, but not so huge on the fluff. Having played necrons for a bit, they are terribly boring to assemble and paint, what with all the droves of troops being completely identical. There's only so much you can do with metal paints, and I hate how they look when people go for that ceramic style. They were also very very linear in their playstyle. At least now we can shake things up a bit and throw a couple of curve balls each game. At least my old army means I won't be painting any more freaking warriors (or assembling monoliths, god was that a chore) for a while

A box of 12 warrior models (smaller legs & torsos) is $35. 5 immortals/deathmarks is $33. I only have 39 warriors, so i can use the extra leftovers after the conversions. I'm getting 3 boxes of immortals/deathmarks anyhow, and I will be using them primarily to buff up my paltry 10 immortals i already own. (with blasters...So i will probably build 15 tesla immortals). Then i can convert up to 12 deathmarks for less than half the price per model if i buy a box of warriors (plus i'll get 4 scarab swarms that i need as well). The entire endeavor is a win-win.


Also the warriors are known in the previous codex for having strong enough metal for a 3+ save, so that's not unheard of...and also i see deathmarks as the necron versions of 'scouts' for their army, so a more lithe build (with the big ass gun and cyclopean head) should look just fine.

I'm so excited...

I think it was mentioned somewhere, and i dont know by who, I also dont want to read mega amounts of pages to find it. But can someone tell me if they know, what the base point cost of a ctan shard is.

The Metal Tide wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:With the Deathmarks, if you look at the sprue shot:
The torso looks like you just might be able to pull it off, provided you're willing to put a little elbow grease into the project.

I don't know kan... Im assuming the intention of using Necron Warrior to use up the extra Praetorian bits was to save money + use up the extra bits.
If by using Immortal kit ( equal value ) it defeats that purpose.

Not praetorian or lychguard. only using the spare parts of deathmarks with warriors to save money + use up the extra bits.

Ah ok, then the bottom half applies xD

I was thinking, maybe model them to be more slouched, to represent them encumbered

200 points plus cost of two upgrades. Upgrades range from 10 points to 50 points.

chaos0xomega wrote:200 points plus cost of two upgrades. Upgrades range from 10 points to 50 points.

I heard 190 but hey, that's ballpark.

After upgrades I estimate they'll be between 220 and 250 points, usually.

tetrisphreak wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:200 points plus cost of two upgrades. Upgrades range from 10 points to 50 points.

I heard 190 but hey, that's ballpark.

After upgrades I estimate they'll be between 220 and 250 points, usually.

Oh yeah. so judging off stat line, in larger games, will they be of any use, or just become sniper target. actually now that they are T7 anything S4 can bring them down. Ive allways liked ctan but they are so expensive. So the question there is, at 220 - 250 points, in larger 2000pt games, are they worth the points. (Judging off what you know atm)

Man these models really look great.

Well, if you're taking a Nightcron list, your C'tan won't have much trouble during the first part of the game dodging sniper bullets, so no worries there. They also have the option to take an ability that allows it to regenerate wounds by inflicting wounds on others, etc. Just play it conservatively, and like the current Necrons, a turn spent shooting your C'tan is a turn not spent shooting at the rest of your army.

This may have been mentioned earlier but the triarch stalkers gun can be fired as a template or as assault 2 heavy 2??

1 per FOC slot chosen. Has a variable heat ray (which can be upgraded to a couple of other weapons) that can either be fired as a template or as an Assault 2 S8 24" Heavy2 Melta weapon.

What does that mean

chaos0xomega wrote:Well, if you're taking a Nightcron list, your C'tan won't have much trouble during the first part of the game dodging sniper bullets, so no worries there. They also have the option to take an ability that allows it to regenerate wounds by inflicting wounds on others, etc. Just play it conservatively, and like the current Necrons, a turn spent shooting your C'tan is a turn not spent shooting at the rest of your army.

Are you sure you talking about Necrons? As a Tyranid player, this surely sounds awfully familiar.

Davor wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Well, if you're taking a Nightcron list, your C'tan won't have much trouble during the first part of the game dodging sniper bullets, so no worries there. They also have the option to take an ability that allows it to regenerate wounds by inflicting wounds on others, etc. Just play it conservatively, and like the current Necrons, a turn spent shooting your C'tan is a turn not spent shooting at the rest of your army.

Are you sure you talking about Necrons? As a Tyranid player, this surely sounds awfully familiar.

It does, except our super SC (Swarmlord) can't make the field night fighting for the first few turns of the game (Stormlord). Gosh I detect a naming scheme here...

Trygons and carnifexes pursuing the enemy under the cover of darkness would be a great ability indeed. Instead we get venomthropes for a 5+ cover save. Blech.

(I know this is From page 127, the argument about Necrons and the inevitable sweeping advance.)

Give warriors a Ghost Ark and they get the Ever Living Trait. Even if they get swept they get Repair Protocals, (RP).

Protect your Ghost Arks, use the warriors/combats for screens, or Night Fight (stormlord) w/ Solar Pulses.
Your warriors will put up a hell of a fight and if they lose to SA, rest assured your Ghost Ark will still allow them to rise again!

Imo Warrios + Ghost Ark + Rez Orb= Stupid Steadfast Army.
4+ armor with a 4++ Inv and if they die you still can regain 1d3 warriors backs through the Ark! I am wondering if a Scarab/Tomb Spyder combo can do similar.

Is there any word on whether or not the quantum shielding will ignore the lance rule?

Lokas wrote:Is there any word on whether or not the quantum shielding will ignore the lance rule?

God I wish it did.

The codex WD entries make no specific mention of lance weapons. They say:

WD #382 wrote: QUANTUM SHIELDING: Until a vehicle suffers a penetrating hit, it counts all Armour Values on its front and side facings as being 2 points higher. Once a penetrating hit has been scored it can no longer use the quantum shielding.

So depending on which rule takes precedence, or unless the codex adds a stipulation for lance weaponry towards QS, it looks like our boats will count as AV12 vs our Eldar and DE opponents. <--- that makes sense considering the ages-old feud between the races, though. Eldar and Necrons are sworn enemies ever since the Old Ones were around.

It would be a pretty hard counter to DE and Eldar if it did nullify Lance. Considering most of our AT is strength 8, only 6's would penetrate. With how Necrons will be able to field loads of vehicles now (although I suspect to a lesser extent than razor spam or skimmer spam) It would be real rough on a DE army to combat a mechanized Necron army. Eldar might have an easier time with Fire Dragons, but ah well.

Pure conjecture at this point. I was just curious.

Tyrs13 wrote:(I know this is From page 127, the argument about Necrons and the inevitable sweeping advance.)

Give warriors a Ghost Ark and they get the Ever Living Trait. Even if they get swept they get Repair Protocals, (RP).

Protect your Ghost Arks, use the warriors/combats for screens, or Night Fight (stormlord) w/ Solar Pulses.
Your warriors will put up a hell of a fight and if they lose to SA, rest assured your Ghost Ark will still allow them to rise again!

Imo Warrios + Ghost Ark + Rez Orb= Stupid Steadfast Army.
4+ armor with a 4++ Inv and if they die you still can regain 1d3 warriors backs through the Ark! I am wondering if a Scarab/Tomb Spyder combo can do similar.

So hey, let's imagine for a moment you have a lord with a rez orb in a squad of warriors (ever-living or not). Let's still imagine that through wound saturation the lord is forced to be allocated a save, which he fails. The model is removed and the squad is given a 'ressurection token' so that it may make it's RP at the end of phase. Now let's further imagine that during said wound grouping, a couple rank-and-file warriors also failed their armor saves...two more res tokens added to the squad, as two more models were removed. Now it's the end of the phase, and only one RP roll succeeds. Which model are you allowed to return to the squad? The Lord, or just a grunt? Or must you specify which models you're rolling for (a la the old WBB) even though you're rolling for tokens instead of models?

Discuss.

Edit- I realize that without codex in hand this argument will be pointless. However I hope it IS addressed in the final publication.

tetrisphreak wrote:

Lokas wrote:Is there any word on whether or not the quantum shielding will ignore the lance rule?

God I wish it did.

The codex WD entries make no specific mention of lance weapons. They say:

WD #382 wrote: QUANTUM SHIELDING: Until a vehicle suffers a penetrating hit, it counts all Armour Values on its front and side facings as being 2 points higher. Once a penetrating hit has been scored it can no longer use the quantum shielding.

So depending on which rule takes precedence, or unless the codex adds a stipulation for lance weaponry towards QS, it looks like our boats will count as AV12 vs our Eldar and DE opponents. <--- that makes sense considering the ages-old feud between the races, though. Eldar and Necrons are sworn enemies ever since the Old Ones were around.

So a monolith with quantum shielding would be at AV16 or is 14 the highest AV possible

Kevin949 wrote:
The "heavy" listing has an asterisk next to it as well, leading me to believe there is more to that rule than just the "can only move 6 inches" bit. Like, perhaps, more bonuses to ramming?

Nah, that's exactly how its listed in the codex (Heavy with an asterisk) because 'Heavy' is not an existing type of vehicle so the asterisk tells you to go look at what Heavy means (which is in the Monolith's rules) and that's that 'Heavy' means the vehicle can't move faster than combat speed but counts as stationary when firing.

Kevin949 wrote:So, I just noticed that all the lords are now 1 wound along with the cryptek...well that's pretty crappy.

Also, I saw this little discrepancy....if this is the case, I'll never not take a destroyer lord.

I can almost guarantee that's a typo on the web team's part. Destroyer Lords have 3 Wounds just like Overlords.

Each roll is done separately, one being for the IC and the others being for the squad. If your Lord fails he fails and is dead.

Never will this situation arise, but lets imagine for a moment it did. Depending on how many enemies are left standing it could me the lord or the warriors.

With an Ark there you can get the most wounds back on the Warriors. They will lack any cool upgrades.

The lord can have a variety of cool upgrades but his stats arent any better then the warriors. If another unit was around you can up him and join that unit.

Overall, i am guessing you want to hear the Lord will be picked. He will be the better choice most often.