Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I still think a big question is whether whole squads of lychguard half to switch weapons, or if it is some kind of mix. I really feel like that will be deciding factor in making a "decent unit" a pretty powerful one.


I don't won't a full squad of warscythes just to get obliterated at the first plasma cannon that comes my way.

I don't want a full squad of 4++ just to only penetrate vehicles on 6 in assault.

So since some of the people across the pond (Poland? i think) got their WD a few days early, perhaps we will see some people there getting their codices early as well and we'll hear from them in the coming mid-week.

The Metal Tide wrote:This may have been mentioned earlier but the triarch stalkers gun can be fired as a template or as assault 2 heavy 2??

1 per FOC slot chosen. Has a variable heat ray (which can be upgraded to a couple of other weapons) that can either be fired as a template or as an Assault 2 S8 24" Heavy2 Melta weapon.

What does that mean

What exactly is confusing you? The weapon can be fired two different ways exactly like a missile launcher can fire frag or krak missiles, for example.

tetrisphreak wrote:(I know this is From page 127, the argument about Necrons and the inevitable sweeping advance.)
Give warriors a Ghost Ark and they get the Ever Living Trait. Even if they get swept they get Repair Protocals, (RP).

Where did you get the information that a Ghost Ark provides 'ever-living' because that cannot be. Once you read the rules text for 'Ever-Living' you would realize that it would be pointless to give it to a squad...it is written specifically for character models!

tetrisphreak wrote:So hey, let's imagine for a moment you have a lord with a rez orb in a squad of warriors (ever-living or not). Let's still imagine that through wound saturation the lord is forced to be allocated a save, which he fails. The model is removed and the squad is given a 'ressurection token' so that it may make it's RP at the end of phase. Now let's further imagine that during said wound grouping, a couple rank-and-file warriors also failed their armor saves...two more res tokens added to the squad, as two more models were removed. Now it's the end of the phase, and only one RP roll succeeds. Which model are you allowed to return to the squad? The Lord, or just a grunt? Or must you specify which models you're rolling for (a la the old WBB) even though you're rolling for tokens instead of models?

Discuss.

Edit- I realize that without codex in hand this argument will be pointless. However I hope it IS addressed in the final publication.

The way its written, you get to pick the models you want to return to the unit...so for example if you had a Destroyer, Tomb Spyder or Wraith unit that contains differently armed models, you would definitely get to choose which type of model you want back. However, with the 'ever-living' rule (which even basic Lords & Crypteks have), it pretty much implies that you're making a Reanimation Protocol roll for them specifically.

So its certainly a bit unclear when it comes to 'Ever-living' models but my guess is that people likely people will end up playing that 'ever-living' models have to roll their RP roll separately from the rest of the unit.

@yakface - the above mentioned method makes the most sense from a gameplay perspective. Lords roll separately.

yakface wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:So, I just noticed that all the lords are now 1 wound along with the cryptek...well that's pretty crappy.

Also, I saw this little discrepancy....if this is the case, I'll never not take a destroyer lord.

I can almost guarantee that's a typo on the web team's part. Destroyer Lords have 3 Wounds just like Overlords.

I thought a destroyer lord was an overlord with destroyer body though rather than a lord?

• Necron Overlord: Generic DIY Necron Overlord (guy who rules a Tomb World) with plenty of options. Can ride on a Catacomb Command Barge (which is a one man transport) as can all the named 'Lords' above, but not those that are Crypteks in their fluff (Illuminor Szeras & Orikan the Diviner).

• Destroyer Lord: Basically the same as an Overlord but with Preferred Eenemy against everything (Destroyers now hate everybody). Has a few less wargear options as well, but can still take a Rez Orb (for example).

Hey Yak, or anyone who knows.

Can you tell me if scarabs can go in a transport, and if so which one. Also what special rules do the have, Im mainly talking about Universal special rules, specifically scout. I would love to see my scarabs attack a tank using outflank.

I don't think beasts are allowed to embark in vehicles. I'd have to check the BRB on that one. (BTW scarabs are listed as type: beasts according to all rumors)

zacharia wrote:
I thought a destroyer lord was an overlord with destroyer body though rather than a lord?

• Necron Overlord: Generic DIY Necron Overlord (guy who rules a Tomb World) with plenty of options. Can ride on a Catacomb Command Barge (which is a one man transport) as can all the named 'Lords' above, but not those that are Crypteks in their fluff (Illuminor Szeras & Orikan the Diviner).

• Destroyer Lord: Basically the same as an Overlord but with Preferred Eenemy against everything (Destroyers now hate everybody). Has a few less wargear options as well, but can still take a Rez Orb (for example).

It is. That was my point. The Destroyer Lord statline on GW's site were(?) apparently saying 1 Wound, but Destroyer Lords have 3 Wounds. And looking on GW's site now, Destroyer Lords do say that they are 3W.


And FYI, there is no option for lesser Lords to take Destroyer bodies (Destroyer body is not an upgrade anywhere).

The Metal Tide wrote:Hey Yak, or anyone who knows.

Can you tell me if scarabs can go in a transport, and if so which one. Also what special rules do the have, Im mainly talking about Universal special rules, specifically scout. I would love to see my scarabs attack a tank using outflank.

Basic rules for transports only allow infantry.

The Night Scythe has special rules allowing Jump Infantry & Jetbike models to be transported, but a Scarab swarm is neither (its a beast).

So no, Scarabs can't embark on vehicles, although they could be teleported by a Monolith's portal.

Do you have to have a full squad of warsythes for Lychguard or can you add some shields in?

yakface wrote:

zacharia wrote:
I thought a destroyer lord was an overlord with destroyer body though rather than a lord?

• Necron Overlord: Generic DIY Necron Overlord (guy who rules a Tomb World) with plenty of options. Can ride on a Catacomb Command Barge (which is a one man transport) as can all the named 'Lords' above, but not those that are Crypteks in their fluff (Illuminor Szeras & Orikan the Diviner).

• Destroyer Lord: Basically the same as an Overlord but with Preferred Eenemy against everything (Destroyers now hate everybody). Has a few less wargear options as well, but can still take a Rez Orb (for example).

It is. That was my point. The Destroyer Lord statline on GW's site were(?) apparently saying 1 Wound, but Destroyer Lords have 3 Wounds. And looking on GW's site now, Destroyer Lords do say that they are 3W.

Since you posted about destroyer lords having 3 wounds as evidence normal lords with 1 wound were a misprint it made it sound like you were saying that was the case since they were both the same (lords and destroyer lords)

Kevin949 wrote:
So, I just noticed that all the lords are now 1 wound along with the cryptek...well that's pretty crappy.

yakface wrote:
I can almost guarantee that's a typo on the web team's part. Destroyer Lords have 3 Wounds just like Overlords.

Considering I already have a C'tan, two lords (one is being bumped up to Overlord), and 3 Pariahs. I bought the Codex, 2 squads of Immortals, and The Ghost/Doomsday Ark with which I plan to also convert 10 Wraiths out of. Think I'll get Lyche Guard later, does 2 squads sound good?

wuestenfux wrote:Well, the new Necrons might be good at shooting but you'll hardly win by shooting alone. I'm skeptical if Necrons will be a really good army - top tier.

You are not the only one that is skeptical. It comes down to the entire game mechanics of the codex and I do not see any reason to take my old skool necrons out from the display case for competitive play.

Anyone else thinking 2 Doomsday Arcs and a squad of spyders sounds like a sure thing as far as heavies...? The buffs the spyders give (especially against psykers) seems to be a sure thing with a meta flooded with GK. Plus with Scarabs being sooooo sick... I think 2 full scarab squads supported by a wraith squad sounds sweet.

Not quite sure about Immortals tho... you can get sooooo many more warriors for the cost!

King Pariah wrote: and The Ghost/Doomsday Ark with which I plan to also convert 10 Wraiths out of.

I'd like to see this.

Zid wrote:

Not quite sure about Immortals tho... you can get sooooo many more warriors for the cost!

If you had 30 immortals you could get 40 warriors. Thats 1/3 more but i wouldnt class that as sooooo many more.

Zid wrote:Anyone else thinking 2 Doomsday Arcs and a squad of spyders sounds like a sure thing as far as heavies...?

No arguement about spyders, they are sounding like a must have unit. For the Arks however, I wouldn't be happy to bet soo many points on a pair of pie plates, I think a single ark could be useful, but 2 would struggle to find really useful targets each turn, namely infantry that have been forced out of their transports by your other weapons.

The Monoliths are actually sounding like a very valuable utility to me at this stage, I don't think they belong on the scrap pile to be replaced by Arks just yet. Monoliths should sit slightly lower on the threat scale with all these new Necron units on the board, and it sounds like they are able to use the template attack as well as the portal each turn, anyone able to confirm this at all?

I should really just go dark and wait for the codex itself, but I've been waiting a while for this after being beaten soo badly with my Necrons every few months I try them, just to return them to the cupboard in shame where I cannot see them

shadzinator wrote:Also the WD says that the shield Lychguard are 5 points more expensive, which is 45 points. So our TH/SS terminator is actually more expensive than the marine one, with worse saves.

Well to be fair they are S5 and T5 and striking at initiative so before the Thunder Hammers get to smack em back. If you take Nemesor Zahndrekh and give them furious charge for that turn they are hitting at the same time as Ork Nobs and wounding most things on 2 or 3, pretty damned useful in my eyes, not to mention slipping whip coil Wraiths or Tomb Spyders into the combat as well so you go first against some of the models, though I admit getting them in there also won't be so easy.

When you're on the bottom, the middle looks pretty good. Amiright?

So some things that i'm curious about that haven't been covered, either by design or just simple neglect:

Chronometron, Timesplinter Cloak
Spyder psychic defense - as in, how exactly does it work? Are they a psychic hood or something?

Those are all that come to mind right now, but time is slowing dowin between now and release day i swear.

So ... are necrons going to be effective in CC? I saw that wraiths and flayed ones are I2 and I fear for their ability to krump things. Also the Ctan being I2 is just kind of weird. It's supposed to be like a greater demon ... of glue I guess.

C'tan are I4. Not overly phenomenal but with an invulnerable save and high toughness should make short work of most units in CC (aside from dedicated CC units). I am interested in the gaze of death, as it relies on a blast template being placed around the c'tan's base. If it can be used even while in CC it should make for a nice buff vs hordes when using the shards of power.

Being immune to T4 and ignoring invulnerable saves really made the C'tan for me, now I think they are going to have to be played too conservatively to reliably make back their cost, there are other options which could be doing more damage more often now I think. I own the deceiver model, so I'm sure he will find his way into apocalypse sized games, but I can't see a spot for one in my 1850 lists.

aboytervigon wrote:Do you have to have a full squad of warsythes for Lychguard or can you add some shields in?

I've said multiple times already now, you can only upgrade the weapons/wargear for full units except for Royal Courts, Wraiths, Tomb Spyders & Destroyers.


----


A few more insights on the royal Court:


Basic (lesser) Lords come standard with Staff of Light but can upgrade it to (for a number points):

• Warscythe
• Gauntlet of Fire
• Hyperphase Sword
• Voidblade


And they can take any of the following gear (for a number of points):

• Sempiternal Weave
• Mindshackle Scarabs
• Tesseract Labyrinth
• Resurrection Orb
• Phase Shifter



As for Crypteks, their weapon/gear is as follows:


Harbinger of Destruction
• Weapon: Eldritch Lance (well covered by now)
• Potential Wargear: Gaze of Flame (Assault/Defensive Grenades for the unit) & Solar Pulse (well covered by now).


Harbinger of Eternity
• Weapon: Aeonstave (a regular CC weapon except: Any model that suffers an unsaved wound from it loses 'fleet' if it has it and reduces its WS, BS, I, & A to '1' for the rest of the game).
• Potential Wargear: Chronometron (The bearer, or his unit, can re-roll a single D6 each phase) & Timesplinter Cloak (3++ save).


Harbinger of Transmogrification
• Weapon: Termorstave (36", S4, AP-, Assault 1, Blast weapon that causes an enemy unit hit by it to count as moving in difficult terrain in their next movement phase).
• Potential Wargear: Seismic Crumble (A single enemy unit picked at the start of the enemy's assault phase has its assault move reduced by D3" if attempting to assault the Cryptek's unit) & Harp of Dissonance (Unlimited Range, S6, AP-, Assault 1, Entropic).


Harbinger of the Storm
• Weapon: Voltaic Staff (12", S5, AP-, Assault 4 weapon that hits vehicles like Haywire Grenades).
• Potential Wargear: Lightning Field (Enemy units assaulting the Cryptek's unit immediately suffer D6, S8, AP5 hits) & Ether Crystal (Any units arriving by Deep Strike within 6" of the Cryptek D6, S8, AP5 hits. If there is more than one Ether Crystal within range then you just increase the number by 1...so a total of D6+1 hits).


Harbinger of Despair
• Weapon: Abyssal Staff (Template, S8, AP1, Assault 1, roll against target's Ld instead of Toughness, does not affect vehicles).
• Potential Wargear: Nightmare Shroud (Each Necron shooting phase, pick an enemy unit within 18" and force them to take a morale test) & Veil of Darkness (Same as before but cannot be used to pull the unit out of combat).

Very excellent info, Yakface. Thanks, I've been dying to know about the customizable royal court and their options.

I really like the idea of the chronometron in a squad, twin-linking a single weapon isn't much, but getting a re-rolled armor save or RP during the enemy's turn could really be good. Stick him with a squad of heavy destroyers and that will really increase their damage output, don't you agree?


How do you suggest representing the different wargear amongst crypteks? All the finecast blister comes with is a little orb with tentacles coming out of it....

tetrisphreak wrote:
How do you suggest representing the different wargear amongst crypteks? All the finecast blister comes with is a little orb with tentacles coming out of it....

GW calls that single Cryptek model as a Cryptek with a Staff of Light, so I think that is the basic Cryptek model essentially.

I'm sure they'd love to come out with a variety of upgrade packs for each different Cryptek sub-sect, but that's obviously a while off (if ever).

With that said, you could probably get away with just painting them radically different...for example, the Harbinger of Transmogrification could be painted in 'browns' to represent his mastery of the earth, 'Despair' could be in blacks, 'Storm' could have lightning bolts painted on it, 'Eternity'...I dunno, purple? 'Destruction' could be reds or oranges, etc.

Of course, you'd still probably need/want to put SOMETHING on the models that have the actual wargear upgrades too...but some of them like a 'Lightning Field' or 'Veil of Darkness' aren't described as being anything really besides an actual effect, so I think you'd basically just do anything you could think of to separate them from another Cryptek model.

Personally I think I'd try to use Warrior models and modify them to hold converted Lychguard or Praetorian weapons and probably try to green stuff a cloak onto them to make totally custom Cryptek models.

But really, your guess is as good as mine for what to do about Crypteks.

Does anything in the codex, a SC, or tomb spyders or something allow you to repair Quantum Shielding?

haroon wrote:Does anything in the codex, a SC, or tomb spyders or something allow you to repair Quantum Shielding?

Nope.

Literally at this point 95% of the special rules for the codex have now been posted. So you don't need to ask 'is there X' in the codex, as if it were, I definitely would have posted it by now.


Someone else had asked how the Tomb Spyders anti-psychic abilities work, but I wanted to remind you that I posted exactly how they work in the first page summary.

I keep reading about people referring to Pariahs as being Nerf'd, and I think most people are overlooking a major point here: Pariahs were an expensive unit that only existed in an army that suffered from the Phase Out rule, of which the Pariahs did not contribute towards. That was the true cost of the Pariahs: the lack of the "Necron" special ability. Additionally, that means they were as slow as glaciers, because they couldn't be teleported through the Monolith or with Veil of Darkness. The lack of speed was the most common complaint I ever heard about them. Now, compare them to the Praetorians, that move as JI and can be teleported. Yes, they're still expensive, and lack most of the punch of Pariahs, but if you can to compare the two units properly, you have to adjust for inflation, so to speak. That is, you would have to adjust what a Pariah would cost without Phase Out to decrease the actual points cost. And if that were the case, then each Pariah would likely be so much more expensive that there would be no complaints of them having been Nerf'd.

Also: if a Monolith doesn't suffer from Deep Strike Mishap as the Matt Ward description on the GW site appears to suggest, then you can now DS the Monolith onto an enemy objective, and have Praetorians pour out of the Monolith door. And personally, I think that sounds hilarious.

yakface wrote:Someone else had asked how the Tomb Spyders anti-psychic abilities work, but I wanted to remind you that I posted exactly how they work in the first page summary.

Speaking of this, does anyone else think 3" is a little bit shy of being useful? Maybe if you were running a single Spyder as a troop specific shield ( they are too slow to keep up with Wraiths or Veil/Monolith supported elites) otherwise this proximity doesn't really let them go off and do their own thing, as they must operate as a squad and follow coherency rules now, so it would be very limiting for them.

I still certainly think Tomb Spyder squads will have their place in many Necron armies, but not as a reliable form of psyker defence, I just don't see it working out without hindering your positioning and movement options too much to be worth it.

IRT azazel the cat;

If the Monolith doesn't suffer DS mishaps, then my previous post about it still being a great tool for your army has been cemented in place and my lists will have to include one.

Mods - is this really a rumours thread any more? It looks more like a lot of discussion about the army list and rules (which, in true internet fashion, haven't been released yet).

Uh Lightning Field i think goes along way in a melee unit.

Even could make normal warriors survive a combat maybe.

Or if a Dreadnaught charges us. Free Str 8 hits on him could crack his shell.

Abyssal Staff: Question who has a lower Leadership then toughness? Was that suppose to balance Template, S8, AP1, Assault 1?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a side note in response to the Tomb Spyder: They pretty much are Arks for Scarab swarms imo.
Attach a Spyder to them or near them watch as he heals them and makes them better.
Your scarabs get assaulted, great here is a MC here to rip you a new one.
We lowered this Land Raiders armor only to 12 ... No Problem we have a Monstrous creature there to crack it open.

What does the Abyssal Staff do to vehicles, Yak? I'd assume it doesn't hurt them but AP1 is throwing me off.