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Sasori wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Oops.

Still yet, using them to distract and hunt down long range support of the enemy I think could do well.

Tervigons and carnifexes, even, with the s5 ap2 and s5 melee, should be fearful of suicide-praetorians.

At forty points each, I'm not sure "suicide squad" would be the best role for them.

I respect your opinion to disagree, and 40 points each is not cheap for sure.

I am going to playtest them, I have a feeling that if the kit includes enough bits to build 10 torsos (5 lyche, 5 praet) I can magnetize my models at the waist before making a final gameplay decision as to what their best role is. Who knows, they might turn out to be the Necron equivalent of swooping hawks, and never see competitive play as such. I just want to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

as a disclaimer however upon hearing rumors of the tyranid Pyrovore I had hope for that model too. After reading its rules, It's the only model in the range I haven't even bought a single figure for.

You can look at the Sprues on the GW website, there appears to be only 5 Torsos. The real difference (If you look on the 360 pics) is two little extra bits on the back, to form the cage like look.

Which is the biggest shame of all, because I am absolutely IN LOVE with the praetorian models.

I could see them being more useful if the DS rules change to allow assaults immediately after.

Thanks for the info, i'm going to look now. edit - It looks like there are 15 torso bits - 5 front torsos and 10 back torsos, so depending on which loadout you choose they share the same front torso. I might build 5 (at only $33 usd it's worth it for 200 pts of models) to test out, and then just build the rest as lycheguard.

Drats as to not being able to mag the torsos, magnetizing the jump packs and weapon arms will probably have to do.

Give us Necrons! I'm sooo ready.

Yes, deep-striking straight into assault is a vanguard veterans only type deal. If they change it to a universal allowance in 6th, then vanguard vets will get a points decrease when they re-do the vanilla marine codex.

tetrisphreak wrote:Yes, deep-striking straight into assault is a vanguard veterans only type deal. If they change it to a universal allowance in 6th, then vanguard vets will get a points decrease when they re-do the vanilla marine codex.

Which, frankly, they deserve in the first place.

woodbok wrote:

Defeatmyarmy wrote:I'm trying to gather as much info as possible on a strategy to use for competitiveness and heres my prediction for my own army:

????? HQ
3+ Immortals tesla spam
1-2 Doomsday arcs
Necron Lords with rez orbs( Ive been relying on em since 3rd)
1 Squad of Praetorians
1 squad of lychguard
20 Flayed ones
1-2 night scythes
X Wraiths
14 scarabs
10 warriors
Monolith
This will be easily 1500-1850 (Hopefully)

Mine will be looking something like this.
Stormlord
Overlord on destroyer body
Two 10 man squads of Triarch Praetorians
Two 10 man units of immortals, either with gauss blasters or tesla carbines.
Two 5 man units of warriors.
2 3 man units of destroyers.
big unit of scarabs.
2 Annihilation barges
monolith

What I'm looking at is:
HQ
Nemesor & Obryon
Regular Overlord or Anrykyr (if he counts as an Overlord)
Royal Court: 5x Lords w/ res orbs (for warrior units), Cryptek w/ Veil of Darkness
Royal Court: Lords w/ whatever, Cryptek w/ Veil of Darkness
Elites
1-2 C'tan
Troops
4x 20 Warriors
Fast
2x 10 scarabs
Heavy
2-3 Doomsday Arks

Arks provide long range fire support, scarabs and C'tan make life difficult for my opponent, and I have 3x VoD's so I can get my warrior units jumping around all over the place.

BTW, I couldn't find it but is veil an immediate effect thing, or is it one of those 'remove the unit from the table and place it in reserve, they arrive via deep strike the next turn' type deals?

Who else isn't in love with the idea of the doomsday cannons? the ark can't move to fire the worthwhile blast, and at even at bs4, a blast-weapon isn't reliably going to hit what it shoots at. s9 ap1 large blast is certainly impressive, but I don't foresee it being super-reliable unless they change how blast weapons work in 6th ed.

tetrisphreak wrote:Who else isn't in love with the idea of the doomsday cannons? the ark can't move to fire the worthwhile blast, and at even at bs4, a blast-weapon isn't reliably going to hit what it shoots at. s9 ap1 large blast is certainly impressive, but I don't foresee it being super-reliable unless they change how blast weapons work in 6th ed.

Yeah, I'm extremely dismayed by the fact that it isn't ordnance, which is why I hope it either changes in 6E or is extremely cheap points-wise. I can't fathom it being more than a vindicator at its current functionality.

tetrisphreak wrote:Who else isn't in love with the idea of the doomsday cannons? the ark can't move to fire the worthwhile blast, and at even at bs4, a blast-weapon isn't reliably going to hit what it shoots at. s9 ap1 large blast is certainly impressive, but I don't foresee it being super-reliable unless they change how blast weapons work in 6th ed.

The Triarch Walker causes the entire army to be Twin linked, at whatever it shoots at. The only thing about the Doomsday Cannons I don't like is the cost, but even if the Blast Scatters, it's still quite likely to be fairly close to it's Target. I don't know though, I've always had fairly good luck with blast weapons.

Sasori wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Who else isn't in love with the idea of the doomsday cannons? the ark can't move to fire the worthwhile blast, and at even at bs4, a blast-weapon isn't reliably going to hit what it shoots at. s9 ap1 large blast is certainly impressive, but I don't foresee it being super-reliable unless they change how blast weapons work in 6th ed.

The Triarch Walker causes the entire army to be Twin linked, at whatever it shoots at. The only thing about the Doomsday Cannons I don't like is the cost, but even if the Blast Scatters, it's still quite likely to be fairly close to it's Target. I don't know though, I've always had fairly good luck with blast weapons.

The Walker seems so fething cool that it's absolutely criminal that the dude isn't in the first wave of models, along with the night scythe.

Why we got new flayed ones over some of the stuff they've come up with is beyond me.

Ostrakon wrote:

Sasori wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Who else isn't in love with the idea of the doomsday cannons? the ark can't move to fire the worthwhile blast, and at even at bs4, a blast-weapon isn't reliably going to hit what it shoots at. s9 ap1 large blast is certainly impressive, but I don't foresee it being super-reliable unless they change how blast weapons work in 6th ed.

The Triarch Walker causes the entire army to be Twin linked, at whatever it shoots at. The only thing about the Doomsday Cannons I don't like is the cost, but even if the Blast Scatters, it's still quite likely to be fairly close to it's Target. I don't know though, I've always had fairly good luck with blast weapons.

The Walker seems so fething cool that it's absolutely criminal that the dude isn't in the first wave of models, along with the night scythe.

Why we got new flayed ones over some of the stuff they've come up with is beyond me.

Yeah, I'm hoping the second wave isn't to far away, I'd really like to add some Night Scythes/Doom Scythes and Walkers to my Army. Not to mention New Wraiths and Tomb Spyders.


Also, I think it's worth a bit more than a Vindicator. The Doomsday Ark has Side 13, Living Metal, is a skimmer, Has Two Flayer Arrays it can fire (Though not likely since it's sitting in the back) and it's Large blast is Ap 1, but with a 72' Range. The No Ordinance I think is so it can fire it's flayer arrays as well. I Still don't think it's quite worth 175 points, but for the moment it's finding a place in my lists. I just think the value of being able to fire that thing freely for two turns (With the Storm Lord, and Solar Pulses) is just too valuable to pass up, even at hat points cost.

I agree the walker sounds great, I'm hoping it's a wave-2 release because I think the need to have 1 or 2 in every army as a force-multiplier is substantial.

Still no info on what the Chronometron or the Timesplinter Cloak does? I know it's less than a week til release day but i'm itching to know what the time manipulator cryptek does for his unit.

Ostrakon wrote:The Walker seems so fething cool that it's absolutely criminal that the dude isn't in the first wave of models, along with the night scythe.

I'm expecting it to get screwed out of usefulness by the point cost. Just a hunch.

Sasori wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Oops.

Still yet, using them to distract and hunt down long range support of the enemy I think could do well.

Tervigons and carnifexes, even, with the s5 ap2 and s5 melee, should be fearful of suicide-praetorians.

It's an expensive suicide unit. at 200 points for 5, you can get the Doomsday Ark for cheaper, and it can bombard enemies from turn 1.

You'd need at least a minimum of 2 turns (Closer to 3) to get into combat with an enemies long range support, and by that time they may have accomplished what they need to do.


EDIT

Or just shoot anything with it. It still negates FNP on other squads that have that. Just saying, it's one of the few AP2 weapons we have available on fast moving ground forces that can deepstrike...

We have a Supersonic transport, and several things with a ton of range. We also have a lot of AP1, as well. I just don't see any of the benefits of the Praetorians out weighting the negatives.

Ya, but the transports are gone in one lucky shot from a las cannon. The praetorians aren't. It will take more focused fire to down them down then it potentially would one of the vehicles (excluding the lith) Let me just ask you, if you had S5/T5 power weapon wielding JI bearing down on you and you knew they had S5 AP2 assault weapons, wouldn't you be worried about that a bit? Because you KNOW if you don't deal with them, they're going to get you. And if you do deal with them, then one of the other many things you didn't shoot will take you out. So they do have a role, you just have to remember that sometimes a troopers role is to just draw fire.

*Edit*
For reference, I'm not saying they should be a suicide squad, but they're a threat on the board that your opponent can't really afford to ignore, at least for long. I don't know man, I see the uses. Just imagine if single lightning claw terminators had jump packs, wouldn't you be worried? And yes, there is plenty of AP2 and AP1 in the army, but is more really a bad thing?

Just bought:

3x Doomsday / ghost arks (going to make 2x ghost arks, 1x doomsday ark)
2x boxes of praetorians/lychguard - not sure how to equip these yet ) (Any suggestions?!)
2x crypteks
1x codex

Get paid thursday so i'll pre order more - any thoughts/suggestions? Was thinking maybe 2x boxes of immortals and equipping them with tesla cannons since I already have 10x old immortals.

Here's what I currently have before this release

56x warriors
2x monoliths
10x flayed ones (the GOOD metal ones lol)
10x immortals
3x wraiths
3x heavy destroyers
10x destroyers
14x scarabs
1x c'tan (nightbringer)

Damn I cant wait till next week!

I Put my order in for the Codex, Command Barge and 2 boxes of Deathmarks. I'm thinking hard about ordering a couple boxes of the Lychguard, just cause I love the look of them with the shields or get some Immortals that my army is lacking.

Right now I have no Immortals in my army, as I never bought any because the metal models cost was too high and I figured I would get plastic ones whenever they came out. However, I think I will make the two new boxes I got into Deathmarks because, I'm really crazy about the look of these models. I'll have too get some more cash saved up for the Immortals.

I have to agree with everyone that the new Flayed Ones are pretty bad. I was really disapointed to see that the didnt have the flesh on their heads like the old models, I liked how the old models really looked like they were wearing suits carved out of flesh. I think that the new models could be improved with a much better paint job then the ones currently pictured and maybe a little green stuff, however I'm not too impressed with the poses either.

Here is a pic of my old Flayed Ones that I painted up.

So when I saw the new Neckies on Facebook this morning I was like "Wut? GW acknowledging the new Necrons?"

And then I realised.

Kevin949 wrote:

Sasori wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Oops.

Still yet, using them to distract and hunt down long range support of the enemy I think could do well.

Tervigons and carnifexes, even, with the s5 ap2 and s5 melee, should be fearful of suicide-praetorians.

It's an expensive suicide unit. at 200 points for 5, you can get the Doomsday Ark for cheaper, and it can bombard enemies from turn 1.

You'd need at least a minimum of 2 turns (Closer to 3) to get into combat with an enemies long range support, and by that time they may have accomplished what they need to do.


EDIT

Or just shoot anything with it. It still negates FNP on other squads that have that. Just saying, it's one of the few AP2 weapons we have available on fast moving ground forces that can deepstrike...

We have a Supersonic transport, and several things with a ton of range. We also have a lot of AP1, as well. I just don't see any of the benefits of the Praetorians out weighting the negatives.

Ya, but the transports are gone in one lucky shot from a las cannon. The praetorians aren't. It will take more focused fire to down them down then it potentially would one of the vehicles (excluding the lith) Let me just ask you, if you had S5/T5 power weapon wielding JI bearing down on you and you knew they had S5 AP2 assault weapons, wouldn't you be worried about that a bit? Because you KNOW if you don't deal with them, they're going to get you. And if you do deal with them, then one of the other many things you didn't shoot will take you out. So they do have a role, you just have to remember that sometimes a troopers role is to just draw fire.

*Edit*
For reference, I'm not saying they should be a suicide squad, but they're a threat on the board that your opponent can't really afford to ignore, at least for long. I don't know man, I see the uses. Just imagine if single lightning claw terminators had jump packs, wouldn't you be worried? And yes, there is plenty of AP2 and AP1 in the army, but is more really a bad thing?

They remind me a lot of Sanguinary Guard, (And are the same points cost it seems as well) I Just think the I2 Kills them, and they have a somewhat limited amount of Targets they can choose from to effectively kill.. They really need to wipe out whatever they hit, before any type of power weapons can swing, or they are done. They are going at the same time as powerfists and the like if they assault in cover, and most things with power weapons are swinging before them. It's just they have so many weaknesses to me, it seems hard to get over. They lack an Invul, have no Grenades, and have Very low I. The combination of all that is just crippling to me.

Preordered the Book, Stormlord, Overlord, box of Immortals, and box of Lychguard from a local store with discounts.

Not sure whether to make the Immortals box as Deathmarks or Immortals, may have to grab some more boxes next payday.

Sasori wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

Sasori wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Oops.

Still yet, using them to distract and hunt down long range support of the enemy I think could do well.

Tervigons and carnifexes, even, with the s5 ap2 and s5 melee, should be fearful of suicide-praetorians.

It's an expensive suicide unit. at 200 points for 5, you can get the Doomsday Ark for cheaper, and it can bombard enemies from turn 1.

You'd need at least a minimum of 2 turns (Closer to 3) to get into combat with an enemies long range support, and by that time they may have accomplished what they need to do.


EDIT

Or just shoot anything with it. It still negates FNP on other squads that have that. Just saying, it's one of the few AP2 weapons we have available on fast moving ground forces that can deepstrike...

We have a Supersonic transport, and several things with a ton of range. We also have a lot of AP1, as well. I just don't see any of the benefits of the Praetorians out weighting the negatives.

Ya, but the transports are gone in one lucky shot from a las cannon. The praetorians aren't. It will take more focused fire to down them down then it potentially would one of the vehicles (excluding the lith) Let me just ask you, if you had S5/T5 power weapon wielding JI bearing down on you and you knew they had S5 AP2 assault weapons, wouldn't you be worried about that a bit? Because you KNOW if you don't deal with them, they're going to get you. And if you do deal with them, then one of the other many things you didn't shoot will take you out. So they do have a role, you just have to remember that sometimes a troopers role is to just draw fire.

*Edit*
For reference, I'm not saying they should be a suicide squad, but they're a threat on the board that your opponent can't really afford to ignore, at least for long. I don't know man, I see the uses. Just imagine if single lightning claw terminators had jump packs, wouldn't you be worried? And yes, there is plenty of AP2 and AP1 in the army, but is more really a bad thing?

They remind me a lot of Sanguinary Guard, (And are the same points cost it seems as well) I Just think the I2 Kills them, and they have a somewhat limited amount of Targets they can choose from to effectively kill.. They really need to wipe out whatever they hit, before any type of power weapons can swing, or they are done. They are going at the same time as powerfists and the like if they assault in cover, and most things with power weapons are swinging before them. It's just they have so many weaknesses to me, it seems hard to get over. They lack an Invul, have no Grenades, and have Very low I. The combination of all that is just crippling to me.

Well supposedly, they get a 3++ with the voidblades. According to the early rumors anyway.

Well supposedly, they get a 3++ with the voidblades. According to the early rumors anyway.

I think we would have heard something by now, if that were still the case. It looks like that was just an early mixup, about the Dispersion Shields for the Lycheguard.

Platuan4th wrote:Preordered the Book, Stormlord, Overlord, box of Immortals, and box of Lychguard from a local store with discounts.

Not sure whether to make the Immortals box as Deathmarks or Immortals, may have to grab some more boxes next payday.

Take the deathmark heads and arm/weapon bits and turn some of your spare warriors into deathmark snipers. Should be an easy conversion, and allows you to use the bigger torsos for the immortals.

tetrisphreak wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:Preordered the Book, Stormlord, Overlord, box of Immortals, and box of Lychguard from a local store with discounts.

Not sure whether to make the Immortals box as Deathmarks or Immortals, may have to grab some more boxes next payday.

Take the deathmark heads and arm/weapon bits and turn some of your spare warriors into deathmark snipers. Should be an easy conversion, and allows you to use the bigger torsos for the immortals.

I plan to use the Deathmark Heads for Crypteks on warrior bodies as well.

Alright, I need to share an opinion that I think is getting ignored in this tearing apart of one or two stat changes.

When I look at the new necrons, they remind me of something, honestly, they have a dash of warmachine in their soup. How can I say this? Because of the HQ and IC changes. We of course do not have the full codex yet, but just based on what has been said they seem to have devastating, game altering powers. Just like a warcaster or warlock from warmachine.

In warmachine your units are brutal, but it is how you use your warcaster/warlock to alter the battle that drastically changes the game.

Some of you ripping apart wraiths and CC are not considering a couple rounds of night fight and lightning blasts giving way to an unstoppable barrage when YOU choose before any CC has happened. Don't think about how great the CC will be toe to toe against other factions CC. Think about how CC will be against whatever is left of other factions CC by the time they get into combat.

That's really just one example. Other than that, Necron is a shooty army, those wanting a deathstar CC unit that you can spam and win and faceroll need not apply. If you desire to have your list creation take 30 seconds and be made up of three different units the GK are right over there....

tetrisphreak wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:Preordered the Book, Stormlord, Overlord, box of Immortals, and box of Lychguard from a local store with discounts.

Not sure whether to make the Immortals box as Deathmarks or Immortals, may have to grab some more boxes next payday.

Take the deathmark heads and arm/weapon bits and turn some of your spare warriors into deathmark snipers. Should be an easy conversion, and allows you to use the bigger torsos for the immortals.

That would require me to have extra warriors. The army I ended up with a few year ago only has 30.

Nightsbane wrote:Alright, I need to share an opinion that I think is getting ignored in this tearing apart of one or two stat changes.

When I look at the new necrons, they remind me of something, honestly, they have a dash of warmachine in their soup. How can I say this? Because of the HQ and IC changes. We of course do not have the full codex yet, but just based on what has been said they seem to have devastating, game altering powers. Just like a warcaster or warlock from warmachine.

In warmachine your units are brutal, but it is how you use your warcaster/warlock to alter the battle that drastically changes the game.

Some of you ripping apart wraiths and CC are not considering a couple rounds of night fight and lightning blasts giving way to an unstoppable barrage when YOU choose before any CC has happened. Don't think about how great the CC will be toe to toe against other factions CC. Think about how CC will be against whatever is left of other factions CC by the time they get into combat.

That's really just one example. Other than that, Necron is a shooty army, those wanting a deathstar CC unit that you can spam and win and faceroll need not apply. If you desire to have your list creation take 30 seconds and be made up of three different units the GK are right over there....

This is nothing new, the Necrons have functioned this way since 3rd edition, if anything, Warmachine/Cryx copied the Necrons when it comes down to it.


In regards to using extra warriors to make more lychguard/praetorians/deathmarks/immortals, I am not 100% but I think those models are quite clearly larger than the warriors themselves, I think it would be a difficult conversion to say the least.

That's really just one example. Other than that, Necron is a shooty army, those wanting a deathstar CC unit that you can spam and win and faceroll need not apply. If you desire to have your list creation take 30 seconds and be made up of three different units the GK are right over there....

Id call it more a hybrid or jack of all trades army. It doesnt have enough long range firepower to call it a shooty army, but has good short-mid range firepower. It has some tricks and has some cc, but its lacking in its cc somewhat i think due to the nerfs on:

flayed ones lost horrifying visage and had their initiative halved, gained 1 attack

Pariah substotutes (warscythe lychguards really) have been ridiculously nerfed - they have lost a point of initiative, lost ability to ignore inv saves and lost their inbuilt 24" S5 AP4 assault 2 ranged weapon, fearless, power to reduce enemy to LD7 and anti psyker powers in exchange for wbb, +2 strength and +1 attack at 4 points more!

The shield and blade lychguard are a lot better but still expensive for what they have (compared esp again to what pariahs had for their points)

praetorians with no invuln save and I2 are fragile for their points as well

The only good cc imo are wraiths, but these are in FA slot, all the elite cc units leave something (or a lot) to be desired.

This coupled with the nerf on being able to teleport from combat incase your shorter range weapons with low I get caught and thus destroyed hurts the army a lot.

So yeah can you mix and match with Lychguard?

I wouldn't refer to any changes as 'nerfs' yet.

Necrons as they stand currently are a bottom-tier, non-competitive codex. 3 mono, wraithwing builds according to DashofPepper are the bee's knees, but for the 95% of necron players winning tournaments just isn't in the cards with this codex.

These negative changes you're referring to have to be factored in with the army as a whole, not as isolated stat-nerfs. I can't wait to play some games with the new rules and units.

tetrisphreak wrote:I wouldn't refer to any changes as 'nerfs' yet.

Necrons as they stand currently are a bottom-tier, non-competitive codex. 3 mono, wraithwing builds according to DashofPepper are the bee's knees, but for the 95% of necron players winning tournaments just isn't in the cards with this codex.

These negative changes you're referring to have to be factored in with the army as a whole, not as isolated stat-nerfs. I can't wait to play some games with the new rules and units.

That and playing Monospam/Wraith wing takes about half a braincell to play.