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Kanluwen wrote:

ChocolateGork wrote:I think the elven stature is right. Better than most elves that look identical to humans but with pointy ears and longer lifespans.

I'd rather have the Elven warriors that have proportions that make them not look like anorexic supermodels who can fall through a crack in the floor but trained warriors.

It's kind of the same issue that I have with the people who constantly say that Conan the Barbarian is the same proportions and a perfect match for Arnold. It's stated time and time again in the novels that Conan had the look of a "panther" to him. All sinewy muscle, not bodybuilder bulk.

He *moved* like a panther, but his thick, corded, sinewy muscles, deep chest, and so on and so forth are continually described. Arnold wasn't bad casting.

Wow, those are space dwarves. I mean, wow. Not even a little bit of subtlety; those are sci-fi dwarves, beards and everything.

On the other hand, WOW! Those concepts are fantastic! So what if the idea isn't anything new, the execution more than makes up for it. If the final models look like those drawings, I'm sold, and excited for their future designs.

I've got a place to bring back the old guard, I see!

Squats with the Ogryn contingent, back in the saddle, WHEEEE!!!

Only thing left to get back in there somehow is the thudds and the mole morters

If even half of those get made into minis, I'm in.

Arnold wasn't bad casting.

Maybe GW should hire him to sort out Finecast then!

Hot damn! Those dwarves are so armored even their beards have plates. I love it!

Heck yeah! Dig those illustrations. Those in plastic and I'll be vurra, vurra happy.

4M2A wrote:Eilif- while it's likely it will just be fantasy in space there is no point giving up until we see the finished product. If you heard what races were in mantic's fantasy range it would sound like WHFB however there are enough differences in the background and theme of the models that it manages to be is own games. I'm just hoping the same will happen for Warpath. From what we have seen of the concept sketchs it's looks nothing like 40k.

I should have been more clear. I was incredulous at those expecting something other than fantasy-in-space.

For myself, I'm absolutely thrilled that they're doing fantasy in space. I wasn't totaly sold on the first leaked images, but was still excited about neo-squats. However, the second set from Beasts of War (now on the previous page) totally sold me.

I've signed up for backstage, out of curiosity, but whether the game turns out to be awesome and my club picks it up or flops is not terrilby important to me, or to Mantic, realistically. They're a miniatures company first and foremost and I'm just very happy to be able to get the Squats I was never able to get (or now afford) and am very stoked to see what other Sci-Fantasy races will look like.

Love the 40k universe and imagery + hate the 40k prices = Very happy about Warpath!

Im not too keen on the sound of these rules, and will probably use these minis in 40K. Having said that, before everyone blasts Mantic for copying GW or trying to crassly offer a cheaper alternative, let's remember something: it looks like the primary race is Space Dwarfs. Well, 40k no longer has Space Dwarfs, much to the consternation of many. I think that, if Warpath is 40k-inspired in any sense, it will be "40k as it should be", appealing to all the disgruntled old guard veterans who don't like how the game has developed in recent years. That's not exactly innovative, but it's not just about undercutting GW, it's about filling a gap in the market, catering to 40K players (like myself) who feel their wants have been disregarded.

4M2A wrote:The alpha rules are there to find flaws in the rules. Being a very simple IGOUGO isn't a flaw, it's the intention.You may not like that mechanic but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the game it's just that you aren't the target audience. It's understandable you complain but just keep in mind that it isn't a case of the game being bad.

This.

My only concern is big battles with individually based miniatures = lots of time spent moving individual figures.

I think Kings of War works so well because of the use of movement trays. Without them, and with miniatures in a dispersed formation, I think things might bog down.

Given that Mantic has stylistically pointed back to the design of miniatures back when GW had it's highest levels of growth (mid 1990s when they become the truly international company that they are) I guess I was hoping Mantic would come out with a game like the one that made GW the international company it is. 2nd Ed 40k had its problems but it was the game that made GW huge. And it had a lower model count than 40k does today (by less than half!).

Everyone out there that is the target audience for this. Enjoy yourself! Enjoy filling up a table with miniatures and playing a game where the rules don't add any extra time and you just go-go-go. Because once you get up over the 100 individually based models per side, things can take long enough to move without the rules slowing things down further.

I'm expecting Warpath to be a balanced rules-lite/fast play 40k type game where you play with a large number of miniatures and spend your opponents turn planning your turn.

If the miniatures are great enough that I'll want tons of them, I'll get into Warpath. More likely, I'll buy the smallest box sets of each of Mantic's sci-fi like I do with their fantasy and use them for lower model count games.


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Buzzsaw wrote:Again, as I pointed out, if you take issue with the big army battle approach (which your statement "Combine this with their "building big armies" approach and Warpath is going to come across as a snooze-fest for a lot of people" leads one to believe), the import of your criticism seems to be you want something that was never in the offering.

Fair enough.

But there are lots of us potential customers out there who don't want to have 100 figure armies to play a full game. Loads who want to play with 30 or so miniatures and have a good time. I fully plan on continuing to buy one of everything Mantic puts out (the smallest boxes like the 10 elf troops when available). I find Infinity's model count to be too low and 40k's to be way too high. Mantic seems to want to push the numbers up even more than 40k.

I guess I just want a game that has a model count like what 40k was during GW's greatest times of growth from a small UK based company into an international miniature giant. During that time, 40k 2nd edition could handle both tiny armies (I remember White Dwarf articles about 1500 point armies with 11 models) and big hordes of 70+ models (guard or nids). Maybe Warpath will fulfill this. Even if it doesn't focus on it.

Ronnie did explicitly say that the rules would support small games and scale up to big ones. Who knows, maybe it will end up kicking ass at 30-40 miniatures per side?

Put another way, I believe some of the best rules for table top games are the Warmachine/Hordes rules (Mk.II) put out by Privateer Press. But I also recognize that the depth, complexity and interest of those rules would be a nightmarish mis-match for a game where each side is intended to have a hundred models.

Totally agree. I think one of the reasons PP is growing so rapidly is they are hitting the model count that made 40k a world wide hobby. The model count of 35 and 50 point Warmachine armies is pretty close to what you needed for 1000 and 1500 point armies back during the 1990s when GW had their record growth.

Guildsman wrote:Wow, those are space dwarves. I mean, wow. Not even a little bit of subtlety; those are sci-fi dwarves, beards and everything.

Yes, and that is why they are awesome!

Hopefully the miniatures make the transition from concept art to reality intact.

If they do, I predict a big seller for Mantic, as the not-Squats appear as 'counts as' IG on 40K battlefields everywhere...

The concepts certainly are promising----Space Dwarves that didn't make me roll my eyes. Great job to whomever the artist is.

Oh CRAP! I honestly, HATE to admit this....and please god dont let anyone notice the Squat hate Ive spewed since I joined this site.....but those Forgefather sketches look fething awesome. I mean...really awesome. This could be a bad thing for me


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Alpharius wrote:

Guildsman wrote:Wow, those are space dwarves. I mean, wow. Not even a little bit of subtlety; those are sci-fi dwarves, beards and everything.

Yes, and that is why they are awesome!

Hopefully the miniatures make the transition from concept art to reality intact.

If they do, I predict a big seller for Mantic, as the not-Squats appear as 'counts as' IG on 40K battlefields everywhere...

Yea

Just go through all your posts and edit them KC
No one ever need know the truth

Right, I'm back to my latest book, Uncle Joe's, Rewriting History for Dummies, 28th revised edition

frozenwastes wrote:
My only concern is big battles with individually based miniatures = lots of time spent moving individual figures.

I think Kings of War works so well because of the use of movement trays. Without them, and with miniatures in a dispersed formation, I think things might bog down.

Given that Mantic has stylistically pointed back to the design of miniatures back when GW had it's highest levels of growth (mid 1990s when they become the truly international company that they are) I guess I was hoping Mantic would come out with a game like the one that made GW the international company it is. 2nd Ed 40k had its problems but it was the game that made GW huge. And it had a lower model count than 40k does today (by less than half!).

Everyone out there that is the target audience for this. Enjoy yourself! Enjoy filling up a table with miniatures and playing a game where the rules don't add any extra time and you just go-go-go. Because once you get up over the 100 individually based models per side, things can take long enough to move without the rules slowing things down further.

I'm expecting Warpath to be a balanced rules-lite/fast play 40k type game where you play with a large number of miniatures and spend your opponents turn planning your turn.

If the miniatures are great enough that I'll want tons of them, I'll get into Warpath. More likely, I'll buy the smallest box sets of each of Mantic's sci-fi like I do with their fantasy and use them for lower model count games.

Having gotten a chance to read the Alpha rules, there are a few things in place that should make moving so many models dramatically easier than 40K:


1) Unlike 40K, where units can move up to four times in a turn (movement phase, running in the shooting phase, assault moves & consolidate/pile-in), in Warpath units move a maximum of twice (and generally only once...the 2nd move only occurs if the unit fights in combat, in which case it then has to make a regroup move afterwards). That's a whole lot less movement to take care of.

2) All units have to keep their models within 1" of each other and within 5" of the unit leader. This means the unit more-or-less moves in a clump. There will be no crazy stringing out of your units in order to provide cover to each other, etc, which should make moving each unit (as a clump) much easier to do, as once you move the front few models in the unit, the rest would move right behind it.

3) If a unit makes a sprint move (basically a double rate move, but gives up firing to do so) then you just move the squad leader model and then after his move is done you reform the unit around the squad leader. Any units moving this way would be very quick to resolve.

4) When a unit assaults into combat, you measure the closest model assaulting to ensure he's in range but after than you just pick up your assaulting models and put them into base contact with models in the enemy unit. This should make moving any units into an assault much quicker than 40K (and assault moves in 40K can be pretty complex sometimes).


When you combine all this together I do think that moving even 100+ models in Warpath should be much, much quicker than in 40K.

Of course, if they had worked removing models as part of tracking damage on a unit it would have gone even quicker as the game progressed and units lost models...but oh well.

Is it just me, or would magnetising the unit leader onto a template large enough for base + 5" solve most of the movement issues? Move the leader, rearrange the troopers if required, job done.....

Dysartes wrote:Is it just me, or would magnetising the unit leader onto a template large enough for base + 5" solve most of the movement issues? Move the leader, rearrange the troopers if required, job done.....

Cover is still determined by where the models are placed, so you still have to move your models behind cover to get it. Also, even though it has absolutely no real impact on the game, when assaulting you have to move all your models into base contact with enemy models. Finally, when moving the unit in/around other units and terrain you might have to alter its formation a bit.

So in all these cases (and probably a few more) it really isn't feasible to keep a unit on a base the entire game. You certainly could for much of the game though, so a magnetized base could indeed work in many situations I think.

Eh...I dunno. They just look like fantasy dwarves in plate armor with guns to me. So yeah, the space dwarves aren't really for me I guess.

Sidstyler wrote:Eh...I dunno. They just look like fantasy dwarves in plate armor with guns to me. So yeah, the space dwarves aren't really for me I guess.

I agree with you Sid, but I do see the potential for Rhulic proxies as well, and that makes me happy.

Eh...I dunno. They just look like fantasy dwarves in plate armor with guns to me. So yeah, the space dwarves aren't really for me I guess.

What else would you expect them to be? Even so I'd argue that the armour plates look different to fantasy (Ironbreakers for instance) and that armour plated beards are immense

Mind you we can argue over sketches all we want. The proof is in the pudding, I'm looking forward to seeing the sculpts in a few months - that's when we'll find out if they're me'h, awesome or fail

I think the sketches are awesome. How much of that detail will be translated into 3D remains to be seen...

warspawned wrote:

Eh...I dunno. They just look like fantasy dwarves in plate armor with guns to me. So yeah, the space dwarves aren't really for me I guess.

What else would you expect them to be?

Something...spacey? I dunno, personal preference I guess. I appreciate if all my nerdy interests are kept separate...I don't mind swords or armor or other primitive stuff in sci-fi, but I don't like it so much when guys are running around with claymores and medieval plate mail instead of "monofilament blades" and "servo-powered combat armor" or something like that. I like it when it's not such an obvious port from a different universe altogether with guns tacked on almost like an afterthought.

Not that I'm judging Warpath negatively or anything like that, just saying I'm not blown away yet. I assume there will be a lot more races and maybe one of those will appeal more.

@Yakface
Yep, as I said, try out moving rules from AT-43 and you will see that Mantic took good note of them, since theirs are as fast as the AT-43 ones.

Sidstyler wrote:Something...spacey? I dunno, personal preference I guess. I appreciate if all my nerdy interests are kept separate...I don't mind swords or armor or other primitive stuff in sci-fi, but I don't like it so much when guys are running around with claymores and medieval plate mail instead of "monofilament blades" and "servo-powered combat armor" or something like that. I like it when it's not such an obvious port from a different universe altogether with guns tacked on almost like an afterthought.

I agree that the second hero (the one with the torso drawn separately) doesn't look like a sci-fi character, but the two heavy weapons troopers are great. The mantles with the shoulder-mounted hardpoints are especially nice.

Now if the models live up to the concepts, I'll be a happy new Forgefather.

Sidstyler wrote:Eh...I dunno. They just look like fantasy dwarves in plate armor with guns to me. So yeah, the space dwarves aren't really for me I guess.

This is true, but a similar statement could be made for a space marine. "He looks like a knight in plate armor with a huge gun, really big shoulder pads and bell bottoms"

Still, most of us -myself included- think highly of the space marine asthetic.

@ yackface,
I haven't had a chance to look into the warpath rules I downloaded, but it's excellent to see that they've taken some good steps toward streamlining movement.

Wow those sketches look great. It looks like they will be giving their own take on dwarves in space rather than just copies of squats. It should really help if they do decide to distance themselves from GW. Not sure how you can say they aren't sci fi style. If you look at parts of armour in isolation it is cleary sci fi armour, it just that the shape retains a dwarf look.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Just go through all your posts and edit them KC
No one ever need know the truth

Right, I'm back to my latest book, Uncle Joe's, Rewriting History for Dummies, 28th revised edition

Ooooooh I dunno man. My anti Squat bashing was pretty bad. Id compare myself to a KKK member or a Neo Nazi as far as that goes

I really dig those Space Dwarves in Exo-Armor or whatever. Very cool designs.

We didn't have to go there, did we?

damn you mantic, now your going to get more of my money for dwarfs