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Brother SRM wrote:I really dig those Space Dwarves in Exo-Armor or whatever. Very cool designs.

I do wish you would all not call them 'Dwarves' there Forgefathers , they have not been called Dwarves in Warpath Rules at all , and assuming there is a fluff section in warpath there Forgefathers...

Synthetik wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:I really dig those Space Dwarves in Exo-Armor or whatever. Very cool designs.

I do wish you would all not call them 'Dwarves' there Forgefathers , they have not been called Dwarves in Warpath Rules at all , and assuming there is a fluff section in warpath there Forgefathers...

Short stature.
Broad build.
Human-looking.
Big beards.
Heavy armour.
Says Dwarves to me. Hell, Ronnie refered to them as Space Dwarves. Take a chill pill dude.

Yea, I bet space orcs wont be called orcs (or any different spellings of orcs) but they would still be in essence, space orcs

Orcs.... In SPACE.

No no no Grot.

Orcs...in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!

And instead of yealling out WAAAAAAAAAAAGH, they'll yell out WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

No, they'll yell out Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave!

I guess it is an opportune time to get some Demiurg for future RT encounters. Or maybe even Squat survivors if Mantic is really set on putting them on those silly trikes.

Kanluwen wrote:No no no Grot.

Porcs...in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!

Well if you are going to quote the Muppet Show get it right

In the grimdarkness of the future, even our beards have armor.

Space Orks = Sporks.

agnosto wrote:In the grimdarkness of the future, even our beards have armor.

/thread

beards + armor = WIN

Da Boss wrote:

Synthetik wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:I really dig those Space Dwarves in Exo-Armor or whatever. Very cool designs.

I do wish you would all not call them 'Dwarves' there Forgefathers , they have not been called Dwarves in Warpath Rules at all , and assuming there is a fluff section in warpath there Forgefathers...

Short stature.
Broad build.
Human-looking.
Big beards.
Heavy armour.
Says Dwarves to me. Hell, Ronnie refered to them as Space Dwarves. Take a chill pill dude.

"Dude", read what I said, in the rules in never mentions dwarves, there called forgefathers, and this is where I think its all being miscast , everyone is assuming this is a 40K competitior, in the marketplace , it is, but having seen none of the background, none of the concept storyline , how can it be compared. Take this as a new product....a new game. IF its then spun out to be a 40k like universe , I will then be disappointed...

If those dwarfs even look half as good as those artworks and have the quality of the fantasy (abyssal) dwarfs, then I'm in big trouble.

Well there goes a butt load of my money!!

Those Dwarves (sorry forgefathers for the very anal) look fantastic. They all look really good but the second hero looks fan bloody tastic, thats without arms too. Imagine how good he will look with his arms too, with big guns and hammer and axes and more guns and fists. Sorry I need to go and calm down I think

Any sci fi wargame is a 40K competitor, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that!

forgefathers for the very anal

My Dad must belong to that self help group.

He is always telling everyone that I am a complete arse!

Synthetik wrote:
"Dude", read what I said, in the rules in never mentions dwarves, there called forgefathers, and this is where I think its all being miscast , everyone is assuming this is a 40K competitior, in the marketplace , it is, but having seen none of the background, none of the concept storyline , how can it be compared. Take this as a new product....a new game. IF its then spun out to be a 40k like universe , I will then be disappointed...

This is just plain pedantic, and this is coming from a grammar fascist. Speaking of, you don't need any ellipses in your post, and having a space before a comma is incorrect. Hell of a run on sentence too.

To the actual point: Are Ratlings not just Halflings? Are Squats not just Dwarves in space? Are Eldar not just Elves in space? These guys are space dwarves, through and through. It's a specific niche that Mantic is trying to fill. They can call them whatever the hell they want, but they're still Dwarves in space.

And nobody is particularly saying that this is an inherently bad thing, either.
I might pick some up, if they are good enough. I had a small squat force when I first started out, it might tickle my nostalgia buttons if they were done properly.
(I wasn't a fan of the "look" of the squat models, but I loved the Homeworld fluff and character of the race.)

Synthetik wrote:"Dude", read what I said, in the rules in never mentions dwarves, there called forgefathers, and this is where I think its all being miscast , everyone is assuming this is a 40K competitior, in the marketplace , it is, but having seen none of the background, none of the concept storyline , how can it be compared. Take this as a new product....a new game. IF its then spun out to be a 40k like universe , I will then be disappointed...

Have you read the rules?

The Forgefathers have a Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer.

The Marauders have Grots, Killa Kans, Dreads, Trukks and Battlewagons.

The core rules even removed the Speed stat and replaced it with a Fast special rule, just like 40k.

Alpharius wrote:

Guildsman wrote:Wow, those are space dwarves. I mean, wow. Not even a little bit of subtlety; those are sci-fi dwarves, beards and everything.

Yes, and that is why they are awesome!

Hopefully the miniatures make the transition from concept art to reality intact.

If they do, I predict a big seller for Mantic, as the not-Squats appear as 'counts as' IG on 40K battlefields everywhere...

As a couple of people have said on this thread, many people buy Mantic stuff to use in their WFB armies (perhaps a lot more than for the actual rule system).
In a way it's a clever idea for a business, they are filling the void left by people who simply can't afford, or are unwilling, to spend so much on GW's own miniatures.

In that way, far from being IG proxies (that armour and tough look is surely worth more than T3 and ineffective armour?) I would say these guys are almost a confirmation that GW has got it's own Demiurg line not to far away, perhaps with the next Tau codex, and these will provide an alternative at a quarter of the price.

If that's correct, then the slightly amusing thing is that lots of people will buy these space-dwarves before they even know about the Demiurg, thanks to GW's new anally retentive policy on secrets of new releases.

I know this is a lot of supposition on my part, but if the above is true, then it's a double whammy on Mantic's part and indicative of some smart thinking. Provide far lower cost miniatures for GWs own games (making use of the largest market in wargaming) and at the same time pre-empt GW on their own model releases, taking advantage of the shocking arrogance of not thinking that any kind of forewarning or marketing is needed for their new miniature ranges.

Mantics... filling in the void as a cheap alternative for GW armies is a quick way to get recognition into their product.

But once they get enough recognition, they need to work extra hard in getting the core rules right (beat the metal while its hot )
Or else they will forever be known as just a cheap GW alternative , and unable to break out of that mold.
And be stuck filling orders of w/e warhammer players need instead of a whole brand new army.

LunaHound wrote:Mantics... filling in the void as a cheap alternative for GW armies is a quick way to get recognition into their product.

But once they get enough recognition, they need to work extra hard in getting the core rules right (beat the metal while its hot )
Or else they will forever be known as just a cheap GW alternative , and unable to break out of that mold.
And be stuck filling orders of w/e warhammer players need instead of a whole brand new army.

Exactly.

GalaxyGames wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Mantics... filling in the void as a cheap alternative for GW armies is a quick way to get recognition into their product.

But once they get enough recognition, they need to work extra hard in getting the core rules right (beat the metal while its hot )
Or else they will forever be known as just a cheap GW alternative , and unable to break out of that mold.
And be stuck filling orders of w/e warhammer players need instead of a whole brand new army.

Exactly.

Not sure I agree. A succsessfull ruleset is not a necessity for becoming a sucessfull and well regarded miniatures company.
A few examples a among many.

Pig Iron: Great figs, never did come out with the ruleset that was hinted a few years back. No one looks badly on them.

Reaper: Excellent and long running reputation in the gaming minis world. However, Cav 2 flopped, and how many people do you actually know that play Warlord?

Ground Zero Games: They had 3 fairly well regarded classic rulesets, but they've been out of print for years (free downloads now) and most folks have moved to other games. Still they sell so many miniatures that they had to close down for a month to catch up with orders.

GW and PP have fooled alot of folks into thinking that certain figs should only go with certain games, but there are an awful lot of minis companies doing just fine without a successfull acompanying game.

Eilif wrote:Not sure I agree. A succsessfull ruleset is not a necessity for becoming a sucessfull and well regarded miniatures company.

I dont agree either :3

Pig Iron: Great figs, never did come out with the ruleset that was hinted a few years back. No one looks badly on them.

They are mostly known for conversion kits, thats it. The entire range of their complete kits are little to none. Cant be grouped in same situation as Mantic

Reaper: Excellent and long running reputation in the gaming minis world. However, Cav 2 flopped, and how many people do you actually know that play Warlord?

When was the last time you saw massed army using Reaper miniatures? they are known for individual figures for collection. Not the same situation as Mantic which they need to sell in bulk.

Ground Zero Games: They had 3 fairly well regarded classic rulesets, but they've been out of print for years (free downloads now) and most folks have moved to other games. Still they sell so many miniatures that they had to close down for a month to catch up with orders.

Dont know them , so cant respond.

GW and PP have fooled alot of folks into thinking that certain figs should only go with certain games, but there are an awful lot of minis companies doing just fine without a successfull acompanying game.

Are we talking about aesthetic designs?

LunaHound wrote:

Eilif wrote:Not sure I agree. A succsessfull ruleset is not a necessity for becoming a sucessfull and well regarded miniatures company.

I dont agree either :3

Pig Iron: Great figs, never did come out with the ruleset that was hinted a few years back. No one looks badly on them.

They are mostly known for conversion kits, thats it. The entire range of their complete kits are little to none. Cant be grouped in same situation as Mantic

Reaper: Excellent and long running reputation in the gaming minis world. However, Cav 2 flopped, and how many people do you actually know that play Warlord?

When was the last time you saw massed army using Reaper miniatures? they are known for individual figures for collection. Not the same situation as Mantic which they need to sell in bulk.

Ground Zero Games: They had 3 fairly well regarded classic rulesets, but they've been out of print for years (free downloads now) and most folks have moved to other games. Still they sell so many miniatures that they had to close down for a month to catch up with orders.

Dont know them , so cant respond.

GW and PP have fooled alot of folks into thinking that certain figs should only go with certain games, but there are an awful lot of minis companies doing just fine without a successfull acompanying game.

Are we talking about aesthetic designs?

My bad, "Awful lot" is an old american slang for "very many".

As to Pig Iron,
Can't agree with you there. On GW'centric boards you mostly hear about their heads, but outside of GW'dom Pig Iron actually has a wide, well regarded, and quickly growing range of figures covering Troopers (light, heavy and special forces types) Rebels, and Scavneger/Ferrals, as well as vehicles.

Regarding Reaper,
It's true that most folks don't collect a massed army of reaper, but GW's really the only 28mm company that has been widely successfull with massed fantasy rules. The point is that reaper sells to many RPG players, collectors, and players of other games without needing rules.

Mantic is unique only in that they are the only folks trying to sell massed 28mm armies at prices. Other than that, they're just another successfull miniatures company whose fans are more interested in their minis than thier games. They haven't need a succesfull ruleset thus far for their fantasy figs and I don't see why they need it now for their sci-fi figs.

It would potentially cost absolutely diddly-squit to play KoW or Warpath if one already has the armies.

or even if you didn't like Mantics range, and wanted to start out and could afford it, buy GW or AN Other & Sons Co. models

I like that.
It opens up the possibilities for a more diverse gaming world. So refreshing from the didacticism of certain games companies.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:It would potentially cost absolutely diddly-squit to play KoW or Warpath if one already has the armies.

Agreed. If I can convince the club to try them out, we'll give Warpath a try. With the rules being free, there's a good chance they'll at least give it a try but if not, I won't be dissapointed by having dropped 40-80 bucks on a rulebook that no one wants to play.

I read through the rules a few times and like what I'm seeing so far. We play alot of Song of Blades and Heroes and WarEngine, and this fits well into our preferences for fast-play, rules-lite systems.

Edit: Accidentaly put KoW instad of Warpath

Off topic a moment
Just acquired SoBH
I like the not too many numbers to make my poor head hurt.

If they like that sort of game then it shouldn't be a problem getting a KoW try out at your club.

Have played it entirely by proxying WHFB minis
As there is no WYSIWYG to worry about there are no problems at all. We didn't have enought Undead but were able to use WoC as Revenants, DE crosswbows as Undead archers

It worked fine.

It's a very good rule set. If you are looking for a quick tactical ruleset that means your playing the player rather than the army I recommend it. It isn't for everyone but that is down to people wanting more in depth, complex rules. The same things apply to warpath.