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So looking up the definition of Sable and we get;
A large African antelope with long curved horns, the male of which has a black coat and the female a russet coat, both having a white belly.

Sounds like our Chaos Lord Rudolf the Crimson Reindeer!

It also defines a weasel-like animal native to Japan and Siberia... and the color Black.

Interesting choice of Animal...

One of them, I think the weasel not the antelope, is where the top end paintbrushs get their bristles isn't it?

 Breotan wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
I'm not sure Tyrant's Legion should even count as a Chaos faction. Hell, the only allies they are allowed to take are Space Marines and Imperial Guard (IE, they can't ally with Chaos. At all), and they use Imperium super heavies for Escalation. All of their units for the most part are Imperium units.

That's because Huron's switch to chaos was extremely recent and not having access to the Eye means Imperial equipment is pretty much all that he has access to. Had Huron's actions happened a thousand years or so ago, then chaos cults would have had tome to establish and build all sorts of familiar chaos war engines.

I am well aware of the fluff/story reasons for it. It doesn't change the fact that crunch and model-wise, playing Tyrant's Legion is basically playing an Imperial army with a renegade-ish background more than playing a Chaos faction, which means Tyrant's Legion shouldn't really count as a Chaos book. Again, even their allies from the Allies Matrix are Imperium armies (Space Marines and Imperial Guard). If someone is looking for something "chaos-flavored" to play, the Tyrant's Legion is NOT it, both fluff-wise (they haven't really turned to Chaos yet, for the most part) and model-wise (before conversions. After conversions... well, you can do anything if we're including conversions, including playing Imperial Guard as a chaos traitor guard)

Even the Forge World chapter tactics PDF states that if you want to play Red Corsairs (which is what most people think of when you put Huron and Chaos in the same sentence), you're supposed to use Codex: Chaos Space Marines, not Tyrant's Legion.

Hence why I think one shouldn't count "The Tyrant's Legion" as a Chaos book. They can't even ally with any of the Chaos factions.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kosake wrote:
Well, whatever might be the case, there are currently 8 main books for the imperials: 5 books for SM (C:SM, BA, DA, SW, GK), 3 of other humans (IG, SoB, Inquisition). Additionally there are 4 Supplements: Raukaan, Sentinels, LotD, Knights and several Dataslates (Tyranic veterans, Centurion Cohort, Reclusiam).
Forgeworld adds 5 additional Lists (2 Krieg Regiments, Elysians, SM Siege Vanguard, Armored Fist).

Chaos has 2 Books - CSM, Demons. There are two supplements (Black Legion, Crimson Slaughter), one Dataslate (Be'Lakor, Cypher can be seen as a unit for both somehow) and Forge adds two Lists - Lost and the damned and Tyrants Legion.

Forge World technically adds three lists just for "Lost and the Damned" alone, unless the various "Vraksian Renegade" lists have been invalidated. There was a "basic" list, a Khorne list, and a Nurgle list.

The Servants of Decay and Servants of Slaughter are outdated and all three are laughably dull and weak. If you want Lost and the Damned you pretty much just have to have IG with Daemon allies.

So is it a suble paint brush joke upon us? GW, you salty dogs!

*Hearty Laugh*

 Bildsturmer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kosake wrote:
Well, whatever might be the case, there are currently 8 main books for the imperials: 5 books for SM (C:SM, BA, DA, SW, GK), 3 of other humans (IG, SoB, Inquisition). Additionally there are 4 Supplements: Raukaan, Sentinels, LotD, Knights and several Dataslates (Tyranic veterans, Centurion Cohort, Reclusiam).
Forgeworld adds 5 additional Lists (2 Krieg Regiments, Elysians, SM Siege Vanguard, Armored Fist).

Chaos has 2 Books - CSM, Demons. There are two supplements (Black Legion, Crimson Slaughter), one Dataslate (Be'Lakor, Cypher can be seen as a unit for both somehow) and Forge adds two Lists - Lost and the damned and Tyrants Legion.

Forge World technically adds three lists just for "Lost and the Damned" alone, unless the various "Vraksian Renegade" lists have been invalidated. There was a "basic" list, a Khorne list, and a Nurgle list.

The Servants of Decay and Servants of Slaughter are outdated and all three are laughably dull and weak. If you want Lost and the Damned you pretty much just have to have IG with Daemon allies.

I'm not sure I'd really count them as three separate armies either since they're practically supplements of each other, even more so than the others. Forge World Supplements would be more appropriate classification in this case.

The BOLS article is a typo; their loyal name was Crimson SABRES (as in the sword), not Sables.

WayneTheGame wrote:
The BOLS article is a typo; their loyal name was Crimson SABRES (as in the sword), not Sables.

Darn.
Oh well, I guess we should have known better than to think GW might still have had a sense of humor...

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Bildsturmer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kosake wrote:
Well, whatever might be the case, there are currently 8 main books for the imperials: 5 books for SM (C:SM, BA, DA, SW, GK), 3 of other humans (IG, SoB, Inquisition). Additionally there are 4 Supplements: Raukaan, Sentinels, LotD, Knights and several Dataslates (Tyranic veterans, Centurion Cohort, Reclusiam).
Forgeworld adds 5 additional Lists (2 Krieg Regiments, Elysians, SM Siege Vanguard, Armored Fist).

Chaos has 2 Books - CSM, Demons. There are two supplements (Black Legion, Crimson Slaughter), one Dataslate (Be'Lakor, Cypher can be seen as a unit for both somehow) and Forge adds two Lists - Lost and the damned and Tyrants Legion.

Forge World technically adds three lists just for "Lost and the Damned" alone, unless the various "Vraksian Renegade" lists have been invalidated. There was a "basic" list, a Khorne list, and a Nurgle list.

The Servants of Decay and Servants of Slaughter are outdated and all three are laughably dull and weak. If you want Lost and the Damned you pretty much just have to have IG with Daemon allies.

I'm not sure I'd really count them as three separate armies either since they're practically supplements of each other, even more so than the others. Forge World Supplements would be more appropriate classification in this case.

Well it literally is the same army afterall, it's their descent into chaos further and further to try and beat back the enemy.

 Kanluwen wrote:
By that same vein, you of all people should know that blasting one Codex does not mean that someone thinks they're "all balanced".

Yes but your specific reaction to someone mentioned the 3.5 was that you remembered it as unbalanced. If your point wasn’t that “It was unbalanced, therefore we shouldn’t go back to that”, then what I said is relevant. You cannot blast a Codex as unbalanced whilst ignoring the inherent imbalances in all the other ones. If that wasn’t your point, then I’m mystified as to what it was, because it seems like a (unintentional) red herring. What did you mean? Please clarify.

You then went on to equate losing units out of the Chaos Codex when it changed to “Chaos Marines” and “Chaos Daemons” with one part of the 3.5 ‘Dex referencing Basilisks in a different book. “Tenuous” would be a highly generous description of that particular ‘link’.

 Kanluwen wrote:
What is kind of amusing as well is the fact that when Codex: Iron Warriors...I mean, the 3.5 Codex: Chaos Space Marines was "revised", most of the complaints were centered around "We lost X, Y, and Z!" when at the same time other armies were losing similar things.

Losing similar things? I can’t think of any other army that, in their transition from one list to another lost:

1. The entirety of a facet of their army that had been part of their list since the army’s inception (Daemons).
2. The entirety of an upgrade/wargear system that had been part of their list since the army’s inception (Daemonic Mutations).
3. Marks of Chaos (replaced with Banners, where the squad forgets what Chaos God they serve should the guy holding the fancy stick die).
4. All forms of special sub-list rules (even the Realms of Chaos books had separate lists for various Chapters, as similar as they might have been).

Furthermore you reveal your bias by calling it “Codex: Iron Warriors”. If that’s all you think that Codex was, and if you are so arrogant as to not see what people who didn’t play Iron Warriors lost, then you simply do not belong in this conversation.

Doctrines are gone, the Traits system is gone, Codex: Craftworld Eldar is gone and most of the things that were published in the same timeframe as the 3.5 CSM book have gone the way of the dodo.

And? So? But? Therefore? Is this meant to be an additional ‘point’ in your ‘argument’? If so, then let me counter: We have Chapter Tactics. That’s all Chaos needs. And that’s all a lot of us have been saying for pages. Not a return to 3.5, not a Doctrine or Trait system, but a similar system to Chapter Tactics that represents the various Legions via special rules and the odd change here and there just like Chapter Tactics. It's simple. It's elegant. It's not predicated on the concept of "giving something up to get something else", which was the whole balance problem with Doctrine/Trait systems. It just works. And if a specific army has a unit that's unique to them, then they can just add that to the regular Codex, just like Crusader Squads.

So very simple.

STOP RUINING DAKKA with your anti-GW sense!

bwahahahahaha.

Silence Bullockist! Remember what I told you about... *dramatic pause*... the list!!!

*duh duh dunnnn*

*lightning crashes in the background*

I listen to what you say honey , I remembered the list, that's why I just got back from Woolworths with the groceries.

(I am glad you made the humour really subtle this time HBMC , I actually got it

The crimson sables clearly had, had enough of trying to paint their armour in old blood red, sold their souls and were granted mechrite and baal red. Then the gods laughed and replaced their beloved baal and mechrite with carroburg crimson and their descent to madness was complete. So they made daemonic pacts to increase their fleshyness and lower the amount of crimson that required painting...

 insaniak wrote:
WHat is weird is that GW seem to think that they can only do one or the other... they can't present rules for both the original legions and newer renegades.

Agreed. The way I did it was to make Renegades a group of traits for modern Marines that exchanged some of the Imperium specific items (like Deathwatch squads, Inquisitors and Legion of the Damned) for access to lesser daemons and daemonic artifacts.

Now, I understand that lots of people like the demonic aspect of the traitor legions but I like the "renegade" aspect. I can sypathise with a legion that for one reason or another decided to cast off the yoke of the imperium with their dogmatic, xenophobic, religious crap and decided to free the people/defend their homeworld/go treasurehunting or whatever much more, than I can sympathise with some brainfried demon worshippers that either look like a salvo of foul eggs exploded all over them, have tentacles for faces or probably need a heroin injection and 12 kV straight to the nipples just to get out of bed in the morning. Bloodcrazed, foaming psychopaths are kinda ok though. But that's beside the point.
I'd love to have a sensible way to play traitors without demonic corruption all over them. Alpha Legion never entered the eye of terror, there are bound to be chapters who abandoned the IOM not for chaos worship but because of what it is, some of them very recently. I want to be able to field at least half the vehicles of the loyalists and would dearly love to know, why plasma cannons are now hellbrute-issue only.

Checked with BOLS, they still claim there will be Chosen and Havocs and even something else.

The following week (March 15 pre-orders, March 22nd release) we will see the following:

- CSM Chosen plastic kit
- CSM Havocs plastic kit

If you recall a couple of months ago there was talk of a fourth CSM mini set coming to plastic alongside the other three.

The earlier chatter pointed to a Chaos Cultists kit.

The latest chatter has seen the Cultist talk die down and Oblit talk uptick a bit, but the jury is still out.[/qoute]

Just been on the GW site- New Helbrutes confirmed for tomorrow's WDW. As well as a hobby article on mutated CSMs

 Kosake wrote:
Now, I understand that lots of people like the demonic aspect of the traitor legions but I like the "renegade" aspect. I can sypathise with a legion that for one reason or another decided to cast off the yoke of the imperium with their dogmatic, xenophobic, religious crap and decided to free the people/defend their homeworld/go treasurehunting or whatever much more, than I can sympathise with some brainfried demon worshippers that either look like a salvo of foul eggs exploded all over them, have tentacles for faces or probably need a heroin injection and 12 kV straight to the nipples just to get out of bed in the morning. Bloodcrazed, foaming psychopaths are kinda ok though. But that's beside the point.
I'd love to have a sensible way to play traitors without demonic corruption all over them. Alpha Legion never entered the eye of terror, there are bound to be chapters who abandoned the IOM not for chaos worship but because of what it is, some of them very recently. I want to be able to field at least half the vehicles of the loyalists and would dearly love to know, why plasma cannons are now hellbrute-issue only.

There's a codex for that, it's called Codex: Space Marines. Recent Renegades should only use the SM codex. The Chaos SM Codex should be about (the remnants of the) legions and very corrupted CSM only.

I believe the Chosen box when I see it. Would be the first box people actually asked for. I like both Hellchicken and Forgefiend but nobody wanted them. Same with Mutilators. People wanted proper CSM minis and Cult units.

I've never been a fan of Horned Helms much anyway, that's why I have them all left over in the bitz box, but that guy definitely has some Antelope ears on him.

I'm skeptical about every ones assumption that there will be a Zombie upgrade to the Cultists (maybe like a few spare heads? An arm or two?) since only a Typhus list can use them. Unless of course they plan on making them available to other CSM forces via a Supplement...

Sounds like a great idea. So no.

But I could also see a Chaos Cultist box tying into Guard easily for some Traitor Guard loving. Hence why it would be the last release?

Necrosios (a Vraks Nurgle sorcerer) can also take them.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forgeworld.co.uk%2FDownloads%2FProduct%2FPDF%2Fc%2FCharacters.pdf
However he is the only Chaos character which desn't have an invaluable save which is a bit pants.
The Wasting Disease power is quite though as are the Plague Bolts.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Yeaaah...you remember it as "good", I remember it as "horribly abused".

I also remember BA as horribly abused, 4th Edition Eldar/Tau as horribly abused, 5th edition GK/Necrons/SW, 6th tau/eldar...

I don't hear anyone clamoring to rip 3/4ths of their codex away and split part of it into another codex...

When were Basilisks part of the Chaos Codex?

3.5, iirc. Iron Warriors could take them. Can't remember if the profile was in the book though.

I'm sad that the new Codex is basically CSM: Possessed CSM Troop edition.

If they get a point drop, it may be worthwhile after all....

 Kanluwen wrote:

What is kind of amusing as well is the fact that when Codex: Iron Warriors...I mean, the 3.5 Codex: Chaos Space Marines was "revised", most of the complaints were centered around "We lost X, Y, and Z!" when at the same time other armies were losing similar things.

You know what I lost? I lost the ability to play my army. I feel for everyone else who lost special rules, but at least Trait and Doctrine users weren't pretty much told "your army doesn't exist as a fighting force in the 40k universe anymore, buy something else".

From GW's digital facebook page:
Hey Guys,
Keep your eyes on the website and iBooks this weekend when we’ll be unveiling the latest Codex Supplement for Warhammer 40,000.

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/artist/games-workshop/id536481148?mt=11&uo=4&at=10lqaZ

- Eddie

(https://www.facebook.com/GamesWorkshopDigitalEditions)

 lord_blackfang wrote:
You know what I lost? I lost the ability to play my army.

Yeah, that is one of the dickiest move GW can do. They also did that with squat, chaos dwarves, dogs of war/mercenaries, kroot mercenary, the lost and the damned, genestealer cults, and maybe a few other.

 bubber wrote:
Necrosios (a Vraks Nurgle sorcerer) can also take them.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forgeworld.co.uk%2FDownloads%2FProduct%2FPDF%2Fc%2FCharacters.pdf
However he is the only Chaos character which desn't have an invaluable save which is a bit pants.
The Wasting Disease power is quite though as are the Plague Bolts.

PAGE 150 in the Back of IMPERIAL ARMOUR APOCALYPSE, it has all three chaos and the two Grey knight characters

Thanks for that - forgot they did that Vraks update.
Will have to re-read it once the cat has decided my lap is no longer good enough to sleep on.

Unless they are announcing two red chaos books in the near future Crimson Slaughter was just teased as a supplement book, not a stand alone codex.

Games Workshop: Digital Editions via Facebook wrote:Hey Guys,
Keep your eyes on the website and iBooks this weekend when we’ll be unveiling the latest Codex Supplement for Warhammer 40,000.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just hope the models actually look as good as the artwork!!

 DJGietzen wrote:
Unless they are announcing two red chaos books in the near future Crimson Slaughter was just teased as a supplement book, not a stand alone codex.

Games Workshop: Digital Editions via Facebook wrote:Hey Guys,
Keep your eyes on the website and iBooks this weekend when we’ll be unveiling the latest Codex Supplement for Warhammer 40,000.

It's been confirmed as a Codex Supplement (a la Black Legion) and not a full Codex.