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They should give Bloodcrushers a better save and allow them to take wounds for Khorne characters.
Hive Guard style.

However CA is mostly just points changes. I really doubt they'll change crushers there apart from pts.

We need something like a codex supplement or whatever.

Im starting to think Letters might also be an issue. What does the math say if youd make letters 8 ppm and crushers 20?

Letters aren't the issue since they're not dominating the game. Not even close. If you take 20 chaos lists that went top 8 in big tournaments, maybe like 5 lists have letters

You cannot deny that letters are good, and honestly I think they are in a good place. They have some of the highest CC damage potential in the game. For 3-4 CP you can have them deep strike and have something like a 90% chance to make the charge with a pretty decent chance of murdering whatever they hit. They don't dominate tournaments because they are a glass shotgun, which doesn't work well in tournaments.
I agree that with cheap screens and daemons having hilariously bad shooting, they will never be a dominating force. They are not a problem, but they are very good. I think they are in a great place.

Bloodcrushers are basically bloodletters with some extra stats and points. Which doesn't do squat for them when those extra stats don't measure up to the extra points.

Lets look at what other gods have to compare functionality a little.

Nurgle:
Beasts: mostly useless, but have mechanic to harm falling back
Drones: Flying cavalry. Useful for tarpits, FLY still very useful, and have weight of attacks.

Slaanesh:
Seekers: Basically faster daemonettes
Fiends: anti psyker and doesn't let enemies fall back

Tzeentch:
Flamers, flying flamethrowers, FLY and auto hitting
Screamers, FLY melee units

Khorne is the only one where all 3 slots are nearly identical
Flesh hounds: anti psyker, fast ground melee
Bloodcrushers, fast ground melee
Bloodletters, ground melee.

Slaanesh isn't in the best place either, but anyone could have told you that. Personally I think lacking a unit that flies (NOT FURIES) hurts khorne and slaanesh. I'm not saying screamers are an MVP and spammed, but screamers and drones are at least useful compared to crushers.

I think either re-work them so they are durable, or re-work them to give us reliable high strength anti armor from the mount. Change devastating charge to have ap 3 and 2dmg on the charge or something. Maybe mortal wounds instead?

Whatever they do, it makes me sad that they are so outclassed by bloodletters and hounds.

Fun fact, they are 7pt more expensive than a naked thunderwolf. For 7pt more than a bloodcrusher, that TWC can have a stormshield and power sword, making them far more durable, faster, but less dmg output.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Well mathematically bloodcrushers do inferior damage until they are 20 points. However even THEN they still do less damage against high armour targets. How insane is that?

However they could compensate that with better durability at that point, they're easier to manage in terms of morale, they cost less CP to deepstrike+3D6 charge.

BUUUUUUUUUUUT remember, again. Bloodleeters still give CP, have obsec (it actually matters often), have more models for board control, better surround, have smaller bases so they can fit through gaps and snipe characters, are infantry so they can climb ruins, etc.

Like, as crazy as it is to think - if I wanted to build an optimal daemons only list... I still might not include bloodcrushers even if they were 20 points a model...

I don't think crushers will ever get to 20 points, just saying.

However, the poster before me mentioned that TWC are 7 points cheaper... and if crushers dropped in price to be the same as TWC (which is possible), then I think they'd be more popular.

Not because they're suddenly become overpowered for their points, but simply because they'd be a more reasonable price and they're a damn cool model.

If they gained a tweak to their rules as well, such as bonus damage on the charge, to make them more powerful vs vehicles or something (tank flipping wild boars ftw) then I think they'd see a lot more use.

Hell, I'm tempted to run a unit of them now, just because they're so much cooler than hordes of bloodletters.

Seekers also have the problem of making Daemonettes redundant. It's like reverse of the Crusher/Letter problem.

 dan2026 wrote:
Seekers also have the problem of making Daemonettes redundant. It's like reverse of the Crusher/Letter problem.

But at least it's the other way around. THe Daemonettes are on par with seekers simply because they fill out the troop slot, and can obsec. Where with the Khorne boys, everything is in favor of the troop choice, making the elite choice basically a useless entry.

One way I think it could easily be fixed for Bloodcrushers is if they get the ability of the Skull Cannon and Bloodthrone, where they can potentially deal MW on the charge. It could make them pretty good.

Funny thing, back in the day ‘automatic wounds that ignore saves upon charging’ used to be the Juggernaut’s unique gimmick.

By that way, disagree that they constitute ‘fast ground melee’. They’re anaemic Helbrutes, not bikers. If they had a race to the enemy lines, Daemonettes would get there first.

Probably do more damage per point, as well.

...can we agree that ‘Bloodcrushers suck’ and move on?

 lindsay40k wrote:
Funny thing, back in the day ‘automatic wounds that ignore saves upon charging’ used to be the Juggernaut’s unique gimmick.

By that way, disagree that they constitute ‘fast ground melee’. They’re anaemic Helbrutes, not bikers. If they had a race to the enemy lines, Daemonettes would get there first.

Probably do more damage per point, as well.

...can we agree that ‘Bloodcrushers suck’ and move on?

Never! We must run this into the ground, and through the crust of the earth!

 vaklor4 wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Funny thing, back in the day ‘automatic wounds that ignore saves upon charging’ used to be the Juggernaut’s unique gimmick.

By that way, disagree that they constitute ‘fast ground melee’. They’re anaemic Helbrutes, not bikers. If they had a race to the enemy lines, Daemonettes would get there first.

Probably do more damage per point, as well.

...can we agree that ‘Bloodcrushers suck’ and move on?

Never! We must run this into the ground, and through the crust of the earth!

Crush them into the crust? No?

Also... but the models are so coooooool...

Niiru wrote:
Also... but the models are so coooooool...

Unfortunately, there are a lot of models in this game, and even plenty that are in the Chaos Daemons faction (besides Bloodcrushers), that have awesome amazing models that will never see competitive play because their rules are cabbage. Bloodthirsters and Kairos Fateweaver are examples, as are most of the chariots, and Screamers of Tzeentch. Great models with crap rules is unfortunately a thing with 40k.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Also... but the models are so coooooool...

Unfortunately, there are a lot of models in this game, and even plenty that are in the Chaos Daemons faction (besides Bloodcrushers), that have awesome amazing models that will never see competitive play because their rules are cabbage. Bloodthirsters and Kairos Fateweaver are examples, as are most of the chariots, and Screamers of Tzeentch. Great models with crap rules is unfortunately a thing with 40k.

I thought screamers were meant to be ok? I mean not great but not bad. I was considering converting some canoptek wraiths into screamers haha. Or plague drones maybe.

In my casual experience, screamers are fantastic super fast anti-heavy units. They just have that dreaded 2 wounds. However, that 4++ at least makes them pretty durable against Plasma.

Sreamers are really bad. T4 2W 4++ for THIRTY ONE points??? Yikes. But their damage must compensate... oh...

Bloodletter: 7 points, 2 attacks S5 AP3, 1 or potentially 2 damage 2+ WS

Screamer: 31 points, 3 attacks S6 AP 3 D2, 4+ WS

Already that's really close. Except you can get 4+ letters for 1 screamer. Also letters get into combat more often than seekers do. Also letters are troops. Like it's crazy how gak the daemons codex is. Remember, from day 1 I've said:

Letters, Bearers, Horrors, Nurglings, support cast(herald, DP)
If you want to take a good pure daemon list there is no point in taking anything else. Not only is that the most optimal combination mathematically and utility wise(troops), it is also a gamebreaking combination because it makes your opponent's anti-tank useless as it has nothing to shoot at but troops.

Glad we've established everyone here loves the bloodcrusher models

Kairos is at least playable if you run him as an LoC. The warp surge nerf hurt a bit but the natural T7 3++ with a "serpent shield" was already pretty annoying to deal with without it. I wanna say he's perfectly scary in a gimmick list at any level of play outside of a totally optimized tournament meta. From that "what kind of player are you" poll thread I think an LoC-based list fits nicely in the "competitive-casual" bracket, which seems to be the level that most people like to play 40k anyway. Completely ignoring enemy heavy weapons is a hilarious curve ball for a competitive-casual opponent and if you get lucky with deployments and rolls the LoC has enough MW potential to make a big impact in a match.

I am totally biased and still high off my last victory against nids though. First time winning as pure daemons in 8th, against a pretty competitive nid list too. Daemons has been my biggest time/money investment since returning to 40k in 8th and their performance has been disappointing since their codex dropped. We are one of the weird armies that actually got nerfed from broken-OP tier to bottom tier by our codex. Then the double nerf on brimstones and blues with smite changes.

Last game my brims did manage to kill a genestealer in CC at one point, which was way more than I expected. But I want to say both blues and brims are basically garbage tier right now. They don't damage, they can't really take fire, and they can't really smite. The one time I did try smiting with brims first I failed and then the +1 smite roll was actually just enough to fail the real smite roll on my changecaster. Brims are basically bad at everything except cheap battalions right now. Even then I'd rather pay the 50 extra points for a 3x3 nurglings battalion.

I will be bringing this 1k list against a new player on Friday. He says he's still learning (under 10 games played so far) so I don't want to bring 3x3 obliterators or the Ahriman supreme command just yet. But I also don't want to get accidentally steamrolled in case he's one of those new guys embarking on the competitive path.

1x Lord of Change - Baleful Sword, Impossible Robe, Incorporeal Form, Infernal Gateway, Bolt of Change
1x Daemon Prince of Khorne - Wings, Skullreaver
2 x 20 Bloodletters
2 x 4 Nurglings

By the way, Battlescribe lists warp bolters as an option for Chaos Daemons DPs, but I can't seem to find it anywhere in the actual book. It's also weirdly 9pts in Battlescribe instead of 3pts as usual. Are Chaos Daemons princes actually allowed to take warp bolters? EDIT: Nvm, it's a piece of index gear.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Sreamers are really bad. T4 2W 4++ for THIRTY ONE points??? Yikes. But their damage must compensate... oh...

Bloodletter: 7 points, 2 attacks S5 AP3, 1 or potentially 2 damage 2+ WS

Screamer: 31 points, 3 attacks S6 AP 3 D2, 4+ WS

Already that's really close. Except you can get 4+ letters for 1 screamer. Also letters get into combat more often than seekers do. Also letters are troops. Like it's crazy how gak the daemons codex is. Remember, from day 1 I've said:

Letters, Bearers, Horrors, Nurglings, support cast(herald, DP)
If you want to take a good pure daemon list there is no point in taking anything else. Not only is that the most optimal combination mathematically and utility wise(troops), it is also a gamebreaking combination because it makes your opponent's anti-tank useless as it has nothing to shoot at but troops.

You're missing the whole picture. Screamers can also cause mortal wounds just by moving over a unit. Which isn't too hard with a 16" move. You should also have a Fluxmaster or Fateskimmer (Fateskimmer is faster) following them around to bump their strength to 7. If they are also in a pure Tzeentch detachment (which they should be) the fluxmaster or fateskimmer will also give them Locus of Trickery for free which also helps them in their CC role. They then can attempt to cast Boon of Change on the unit every turn and all the results are good for Screamers. Warp Surge stratagem effectively gives them a 3++ save for 2CP.

YES, it's "combo wombo". And NO it won't work every time reliably because dice and your opponent (but you can say this about everything in the game), BUT they can be a threat and fun to play.

The flyover was screamers gimmick in the last few editions that had them seeing play often as well. I couldn't ever really get it to work right for me, which lead to a lot of lost games lol.

On the subject of games, my troop heavy Nurgle/Khorne list did fantastic against Custodes. I placed some of the nurglings on objectives, but also gave up easy first blood to try to bait my opponent to charge some that were 9" away, and directly in front of my 10 letters. The nature of the custodes army meant part of the table was pretty empty, so I plopped my 10 over there.

I forgot to warp surge EVERY SINGLE TIME I needed to. My opponent was also playing quickly enough that by the time I realized it was the phase I needed, it was too late. This is why I don't do tournaments lol. I popped it once, when a nurgle prince had been charged by 3 spear dudes on foot. They did ONE wound, biggest waste of 2CP ever.

It was the first game where I've got to swing with the Axe DP, and it was glorious. My opponent charged ALL the nurglings that were mid field, which gave up a ton of objectives, he had 6 points at the end of turn 1. However, I had killed his warlord and crippled a chunk of his army. Khorne prince straight deleted his jet bike captain dude, who was said to be "unkillable" at the beginning of the game, I got a grin after he died. 9 bloodletters charged a unit of 3 custodes, killed 2 and left one with a single wound, then surrounded it. Holy gak bloodletters are insane! Got another grin on my opponent's turn 2, when he charged a bunch into the axe prince, did 2 dmg, then I interrupted and did 12 dmg to another character, crippling his buffs pretty hard.

On my T2, I dropped the bomb of skarbrand, 40 letters and herald (bloodmaster?, whatever his new name is) Made the charges with the 2 blobs, chained to be in range of crimson crown (which I forgot about, even though I spent CP for it) and skarbrand (who I chose as warlord at the advice here, good advice!) He just picked up the infantry that were charged, I resolved attacks against his telemon, surounded it in CC scored 5 points, and he tossed in the towel. He had a telemon stuck in CC, the hover tank, a jet bike HQ, and a single normal dude surrounded by bloodlettersleft.

silly highlight? T1, 3 nurglings got charged by 3 custodes. 1 nurgling base died, and the remaining 2 did 2 dmg to a custodian when my opponent rolled snake eyes. He had some trash rolls when fighting in CC on the first turn. His dice were super swingy, awesome one roll, gak the next. I plan on trying the same list against more people, and potentially running mono khorne some time in the future. Nurgle knows I have enough models for it!

 D6Damager wrote:

You're missing the whole picture. Screamers can also cause mortal wounds just by moving over a unit. Which isn't too hard with a 16" move. You should also have a Fluxmaster or Fateskimmer (Fateskimmer is faster) following them around to bump their strength to 7. If they are also in a pure Tzeentch detachment (which they should be) the fluxmaster or fateskimmer will also give them Locus of Trickery for free which also helps them in their CC role. They then can attempt to cast Boon of Change on the unit every turn and all the results are good for Screamers. Warp Surge stratagem effectively gives them a 3++ save for 2CP.

YES, it's "combo wombo". And NO it won't work every time reliably because dice and your opponent (but you can say this about everything in the game), BUT they can be a threat and fun to play.

Ok, so they cause mortal wounds on a SIX. Ok. A herald can't really keep up with them and they can't screen for him so that's not happening. Locus of Trickery is a joke that a lot of people forget to use, if you roll a single 1 on the two dice, the ability is useless. A single 2 also often makes it do nothing at all. Boon of Change is a joke of a spell that probably wasn't cast on the top tables of a big tournament in the entire 8th edition. Extra strength can easily be useless if you're fighting Toughness 1,2,3,4,5,8,9 stuff and since you cast it after the movement phase you can't really pick targets. You're better off just using any other spell instead most of the times. Finally almost everyone has access to warp surge and they usually get more benefits from it than screamers(Going from 5++ to 4++ is a better durability increase than 4++ to 3++)

If screamers were any good, they'd see competitive play. Right now they are not even close to stuff like cultists, tzangors, daemon troops, DPs, DG tanks, etc. who are all more durable and do more damage. Screamers are only for capturing objectives in far away places. However they're not obsec so they're not even good for that

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 D6Damager wrote:

You're missing the whole picture. Screamers can also cause mortal wounds just by moving over a unit. Which isn't too hard with a 16" move. You should also have a Fluxmaster or Fateskimmer (Fateskimmer is faster) following them around to bump their strength to 7. If they are also in a pure Tzeentch detachment (which they should be) the fluxmaster or fateskimmer will also give them Locus of Trickery for free which also helps them in their CC role. They then can attempt to cast Boon of Change on the unit every turn and all the results are good for Screamers. Warp Surge stratagem effectively gives them a 3++ save for 2CP.

YES, it's "combo wombo". And NO it won't work every time reliably because dice and your opponent (but you can say this about everything in the game), BUT they can be a threat and fun to play.

Ok, so they cause mortal wounds on a SIX. Ok. A herald can't really keep up with them and they can't screen for him so that's not happening. Locus of Trickery is a joke that a lot of people forget to use, if you roll a single 1 on the two dice, the ability is useless. A single 2 also often makes it do nothing at all. Boon of Change is a joke of a spell that probably wasn't cast on the top tables of a big tournament in the entire 8th edition. Extra strength can easily be useless if you're fighting Toughness 1,2,3,4,5,8,9 stuff and since you cast it after the movement phase you can't really pick targets. You're better off just using any other spell instead most of the times. Finally almost everyone has access to warp surge and they usually get more benefits from it than screamers(Going from 5++ to 4++ is a better durability increase than 4++ to 3++)

If screamers were any good, they'd see competitive play. Right now they are not even close to stuff like cultists, tzangors, daemon troops, DPs, DG tanks, etc. who are all more durable and do more damage. Screamers are only for capturing objectives in far away places. However they're not obsec so they're not even good for that

If screamers were top tier tournament cheese theyd see play. Only a very select amount of units are "amazing". Just because they arent a 9/10 on the power scale it doesnt magically make them total unplayable trash.

 vaklor4 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 D6Damager wrote:

You're missing the whole picture. Screamers can also cause mortal wounds just by moving over a unit. Which isn't too hard with a 16" move. You should also have a Fluxmaster or Fateskimmer (Fateskimmer is faster) following them around to bump their strength to 7. If they are also in a pure Tzeentch detachment (which they should be) the fluxmaster or fateskimmer will also give them Locus of Trickery for free which also helps them in their CC role. They then can attempt to cast Boon of Change on the unit every turn and all the results are good for Screamers. Warp Surge stratagem effectively gives them a 3++ save for 2CP.

YES, it's "combo wombo". And NO it won't work every time reliably because dice and your opponent (but you can say this about everything in the game), BUT they can be a threat and fun to play.

Ok, so they cause mortal wounds on a SIX. Ok. A herald can't really keep up with them and they can't screen for him so that's not happening. Locus of Trickery is a joke that a lot of people forget to use, if you roll a single 1 on the two dice, the ability is useless. A single 2 also often makes it do nothing at all. Boon of Change is a joke of a spell that probably wasn't cast on the top tables of a big tournament in the entire 8th edition. Extra strength can easily be useless if you're fighting Toughness 1,2,3,4,5,8,9 stuff and since you cast it after the movement phase you can't really pick targets. You're better off just using any other spell instead most of the times. Finally almost everyone has access to warp surge and they usually get more benefits from it than screamers(Going from 5++ to 4++ is a better durability increase than 4++ to 3++)

If screamers were any good, they'd see competitive play. Right now they are not even close to stuff like cultists, tzangors, daemon troops, DPs, DG tanks, etc. who are all more durable and do more damage. Screamers are only for capturing objectives in far away places. However they're not obsec so they're not even good for that

If screamers were top tier tournament cheese theyd see play. Only a very select amount of units are "amazing". Just because they arent a 9/10 on the power scale it doesnt magically make them total unplayable trash.

Lol you're right Vaklor.

This is dakka. If they aren't a 10/10 on the overpowered cheese scale, then they're unplayable trash.

Tzeentch list with 2 disc heralds, a Prince, two horror squads, 3 flamer units, 2 Screamer units, and a unit of furies (50PL on the dot). Doable? Gives me 5 command points for juicy re-rolls, a bunch of shooting and psychics and a couple strong melee options. I’m planning to utilize screamers for sure.

And yes, this continues my “friendly” 50PL mono-god lists for pickup games.

Depends on the mission and size of said squads. 5 furies will die quickly to any kind of attention and if you play a lot of kill points that is just free points to the opponent that would have been better spent making one of the other squads bigger.

Otherwise its not bad for friendly games. Has enough threat and fun mixed in to be decent.

We're pretty much doing objective holding, and I've got literally every daemon model available, and in multiples; so I'm just trying to keep things to 1-2 detachments in a 50PL/1000pt list. I can do either, but PL gives my less experienced friends more option to put stuff out and as a daemon player with bare minimum upgrades, I'm penalized more for point usage than a SM player. So it's a hidden challenge for me that they don't know (and don't need to know) about.

All squads are minimum sized; MSU's running around, horrors will probably DS in for mid-game objective steals.

Basically, everything I run in this game setup will be MSU, except when I do Khorne and run two 20-man DSing Bloodletter bombs.

Niiru wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

If screamers were top tier tournament cheese theyd see play. Only a very select amount of units are "amazing". Just because they arent a 9/10 on the power scale it doesnt magically make them total unplayable trash.

Lol you're right Vaklor.

This is dakka. If they aren't a 10/10 on the overpowered cheese scale, then they're unplayable trash.

This clearly shows you don't know what you're talking about.

Daemon codex has horrors, letters, bearers, heralds and skullreaver DP. Done and done. Plague Drones were a thing before the FLY FAQ too. Now probably not.

Tyranids have: flyrants, swarmlord, malanthropes, broodlord, tervigon, neurothrope, old one eye, warriors, genestealers, termagants, hormagants, rippers, hive guard, venomthropes, spores, biovores, carnifexes, trygon, mawloc...

They are not all amazingly competitive, but they have niches they fill, they have unique rules and stratagem,trait interactions. Daemons are mostly all beatsticks. Which is why they are way more prone to being mathhammered out of the game. We just got the short end of the stick.

Hooooooooowever. I just got word that we'll be getting new models and rules(!). That's probably because the Daemon co x was rushed out for Nurgle. And now we'll get more Khorne and Slaanesh models and if my source didn't mistype - we'll get new rules, which could be a summoning overhaul to make it like Sigmar where you can always summon stuff and don't need reserves.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

If screamers were top tier tournament cheese theyd see play. Only a very select amount of units are "amazing". Just because they arent a 9/10 on the power scale it doesnt magically make them total unplayable trash.

Lol you're right Vaklor.

This is dakka. If they aren't a 10/10 on the overpowered cheese scale, then they're unplayable trash.

This clearly shows you don't know what you're talking about.

Daemon codex has horrors, letters, bearers, heralds and skullreaver DP. Done and done. Plague Drones were a thing before the FLY FAQ too. Now probably not.

Tyranids have: flyrants, swarmlord, malanthropes, broodlord, tervigon, neurothrope, old one eye, warriors, genestealers, termagants, hormagants, rippers, hive guard, venomthropes, spores, biovores, carnifexes, trygon, mawloc...

They are not all amazingly competitive, but they have niches they fill, they have unique rules and stratagem,trait interactions. Daemons are mostly all beatsticks. Which is why they are way more prone to being mathhammered out of the game.

Was that a reply to me?

If so.... WHOOOOOOOOSHHHHHH!

You'd need to be stretch armstrong to reach that one.

Niiru wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

If screamers were top tier tournament cheese theyd see play. Only a very select amount of units are "amazing". Just because they arent a 9/10 on the power scale it doesnt magically make them total unplayable trash.

Lol you're right Vaklor.

This is dakka. If they aren't a 10/10 on the overpowered cheese scale, then they're unplayable trash.

This clearly shows you don't know what you're talking about.

Daemon codex has horrors, letters, bearers, heralds and skullreaver DP. Done and done. Plague Drones were a thing before the FLY FAQ too. Now probably not.

Tyranids have: flyrants, swarmlord, malanthropes, broodlord, tervigon, neurothrope, old one eye, warriors, genestealers, termagants, hormagants, rippers, hive guard, venomthropes, spores, biovores, carnifexes, trygon, mawloc...

They are not all amazingly competitive, but they have niches they fill, they have unique rules and stratagem,trait interactions. Daemons are mostly all beatsticks. Which is why they are way more prone to being mathhammered out of the game.

Was that a reply to me?

If so.... WHOOOOOOOOSHHHHHH!

You'd need to be stretch armstrong to reach that one.

I was curious why I couldnt see who you were replying too...Till I realized he was on my ignore list

Glad to see im not regretting my choice.

Ignores in dakka are useless. You keep seeing the person being quoted anyway. It's better to skim messages than to ignore people. Are you that afraid that my messages might hurt your feelings or something that you can't just skim them? To each his own I guess.

Also ignoring me is probably the worst thing you can do since I post all the time(so you won't understand half the conversation) and I post unit analysis(always substantiated by tournament results/mathammer or top player opinions) and leaks.

Edit: you actually quoted me talking about screamers without me being quoted. Meaning you clicked to view my message anyway. What's the point of the ignore then? To make you click every time I post something, lol? Ok, thanks for the effort I guess. Grow a thicker skin, were you really that sad that I said a unit you like sees no play and is suboptimal and needs a buff?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Ignores in dakka are useless. You keep seeing the person being quoted anyway. It's better to skim messages than to ignore people. Are you that afraid that my messages might hurt your feelings or something that you can't just skim them? To each his own I guess.

Also ignoring me is probably the worst thing you can do since I post all the time(so you won't understand half the conversation) and I post unit analysis(always substantiated by tournament results/mathammer or top player opinions) and leaks.

Lol aww, you think you're scary.

I have a couple people on here on ignore (not you), and it's not because I'm scared of what they say. It's not even because they make good arguments. It's because most of what they say is wrong, and then when you correct them they get childish and abusive.

So behave yourself, and I won't ignore you. Less of that "you don't know what you're talking about" nonsense, especially when you reply to a post you clearly didn't understand.

Try and stay on topic, please.

Niiru wrote:


Lol aww, you think you're scary.

I have a couple people on here on ignore (not you), and it's not because I'm scared of what they say. It's not even because they make good arguments. It's because most of what they say is wrong, and then when you correct them they get childish and abusive.

So behave yourself, and I won't ignore you. Less of that "you don't know what you're talking about" nonsense, especially when you reply to a post you clearly didn't understand.

And tell me what I understood wrong:
I saw people saying "the unit has to be completely broken in every way to see competitive play". Which is completelly wrong. There are plenty "OK" units seeing competitive play if they have a niche to fill in the army. Most of the daemon units do not have a niche to fill since they're all the same "beatstick" type of unit.

And I'm not the one who started the ignore discussion. I just felt like I had to respond to that since it involved me.

ANYWAY...
Let's try this again:
I just got word that we'll be getting new models and rules(!). That's probably because the Daemon codex was rushed out for Nurgle. And now we'll get more Khorne and Slaanesh models and if my source didn't mistype - we'll get new rules, which could be a summoning overhaul to make it like Sigmar where you can always summon stuff and don't need reserves.
This is more than just "the revealed fiend" or the "slaanesh vs khorne box", btw. So yay, daemons might not be boring as fk to play in competitive kinda sorta maybe perhaps I hope.