Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:01:05
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
|
Frazzled thoughts.
1. This only occurs because the parents and girlfriends let them loaf. Make them fend for themselves.
2. This generation of boys is so lucky. How did you manage to scam everyone to let this happen? Color me impressed, and jealous.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/04/opinion/bennett-men-in-trouble/index.html
Why men are in trouble
By William J. Bennett, CNN Contributor
(CNN) -- For the first time in history, women are better educated, more ambitious and arguably more successful than men.
Now, society has rightly celebrated the ascension of one sex. We said, "You go girl," and they went. We celebrate the ascension of women but what will we do about what appears to be the very real decline of the other sex?
The data does not bode well for men. In 1970, men earned 60% of all college degrees. In 1980, the figure fell to 50%, by 2006 it was 43%. Women now surpass men in college degrees by almost three to two. Women's earnings grew 44% in real dollars from 1970 to 2007, compared with 6% growth for men.
In 1950, 5% of men at the prime working age were unemployed. As of last year, 20% were not working, the highest ever recorded. Men still maintain a majority of the highest paid and most powerful occupations, but women are catching them and will soon be passing them if this trend continues.
The warning signs for men stretch far beyond their wallets. Men are more distant from a family or their children then they have ever been. The out-of-wedlock birthrate is more than 40% in America. In 1960, only 11% of children in the U.S. lived apart from their fathers. In 2010, that share had risen to 27%. Men are also less religious than ever before. According to Gallup polling, 39% of men reported attending church regularly in 2010, compared to 47% of women.
If you don't believe the numbers, just ask young women about men today. You will find them talking about prolonged adolescence and men who refuse to grow up. I've heard too many young women asking, "Where are the decent single men?" There is a maturity deficit among men out there, and men are falling behind.
This decline in founding virtues -- work, marriage, and religion -- has caught the eye of social commentators from all corners. In her seminal article, "The End of Men," Hanna Rosin unearthed the unprecedented role reversal that is taking place today. "Man has been the dominant sex since, well, the dawn of mankind. But for the first time in human history, that is changing—and with shocking speed," writes Rosin. The changes in modern labor -- from backs to brains -- have catapulted women to the top of the work force, leaving men in their dust.
Hanna Rosin: Are women leaving men behind?
Man's response has been pathetic. Today, 18-to- 34-year-old men spend more time playing video games a day than 12-to- 17-year-old boys. While women are graduating college and finding good jobs, too many men are not going to work, not getting married and not raising families. Women are beginning to take the place of men in many ways. This has led some to ask: do we even need men?
So what's wrong? Increasingly, the messages to boys about what it means to be a man are confusing. The machismo of the street gang calls out with a swagger. Video games, television and music offer dubious lessons to boys who have been abandoned by their fathers. Some coaches and drill sergeants bark, "What kind of man are you?" but don't explain.
Movies are filled with stories of men who refuse to grow up and refuse to take responsibility in relationships. Men, some obsessed with sex, treat women as toys to be discarded when things get complicated. Through all these different and conflicting signals, our boys must decipher what it means to be a man, and for many of them it is harder to figure out.
For boys to become men, they need to be guided through advice, habit, instruction, example and correction. It is true in all ages. Someone once characterized the two essential questions Plato posed as: Who teaches the children, and what do we teach them? Each generation of men and women have an obligation to teach the younger males (and females of course) coming behind them. William Wordsworth said, "What we have loved, others will love, and we will teach them how." When they fail in that obligation, trouble surely follows.
We need to respond to this culture that sends confusing signals to young men, a culture that is agnostic about what it wants men to be, with a clear and achievable notion of manhood.
The Founding Fathers believed, and the evidence still shows, that industriousness, marriage and religion are a very important basis for male empowerment and achievement. We may need to say to a number of our twenty-something men, "Get off the video games five hours a day, get yourself together, get a challenging job and get married." It's time for men to man up.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/04 19:21:40
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:05:47
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
Karthu'ul, the Heart of the Universe
|
I've never been a big fan of the idea that relationships and marriage are necessary parts of manhood and "growing up."
|
There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:07:15
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Clousseau
http://darkspenthouse.punbb-hosting.com/index.php
|
There are still plenty of guys who are 'normal' and besides, since when was the US the only place on earth? Here we have males doing some of the outside work as well as females, pretty balanced here. (I live in Asia but the blasted flag is still American! oh well, it is my home country)
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/10/04 19:08:51
"The young and foolish seek glory and recognition for their deeds, brother, the experienced and old know that recognition and medals are precisely the same worth as ork gak."
-Avarian Pentus--Deathwatch Apothecary |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:18:59
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
|
Hurrah for gender inculcation!
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:19:21
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
|
Nerivant wrote:I've never been a big fan of the idea that relationships and marriage are necessary parts of manhood and "growing up."
Or going to church, for that matter.
Though there is probably something to the idea that not having any real emotional investment in dependents, be they children or a spouse, makes you less likely to seek success. After all, why work unusually hard if you don't see any return from doing so?
|
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:21:49
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Clousseau
http://darkspenthouse.punbb-hosting.com/index.php
|
^point Good god, I can't believe I am actually agreeing with Dogma. Watch out for the 4 horsemen.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/04 19:21:59
"The young and foolish seek glory and recognition for their deeds, brother, the experienced and old know that recognition and medals are precisely the same worth as ork gak."
-Avarian Pentus--Deathwatch Apothecary |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:22:16
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Consigned to the Grim Darkness
|
The Founding Fathers believed, and the evidence still shows, that industriousness, marriage and religion are a very important basis for male empowerment and achievement.
Ah, a concluding statement with claims that are completely unsupported by the preceding argument. Provocatively bad writing.
|
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:23:21
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
Karthu'ul, the Heart of the Universe
|
I went cross-eyed by the end of it; didn't even notice that it brought up religion.
|
There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:24:48
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
|
Yeah, a lot of it comes from that. That, and expectations are very different for boys and girls, and boys and girls (in general) have very different responses to the education system. The current way children are educated, which relies on co-operation between children and teachers rather than an authoritarian approach, works better to motivate girls I think, because on the whole, girls are more motivated by the desire to please people and to be seen to do well. Boys tend to be more insular in their thinking, only wanting to do well to please themselves or because something catches their interest. They aren't socially conditioned to value intellectual pursuits very much (how many intellectual rolemodels for boys can you name?). Added to this, girls are conditioned from early on to value presentation, whereas boys are allowed to be messy. This leads to boys work being percieved as worse even when the content is the same and better, which leads to gradual demotivation. Since intellectual success is pretty seriously linked to other kinds of success, and the experience of failure is demotivating in general, it's not hard to see how the personalities of young men are shaped. All generalisations of course, there are plenty of exceptions. But there was only 1 boy in the top 20 kids in our school this year, results wise.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/04 19:25:23
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:26:04
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
|
Well yea, but thats not really the issue under discussion.
I should note, as an old fart parent, I am seeing a lot of this.
Post high school-serious failure to launch. (We've affirmed to both that the clicking sound they hear when they close the door to go to graduation is me changing the locks...)
High school - lots of lazing around. I can't separate it from old fartness, but the boys don't seem to do..well much of anything. We even know kids who don't want to drive and their parents still drive them around. In my day that would have been social suicide and a sign of a disturbed mind.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/04 19:26:20
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:30:44
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
|
I agree Fraz, there's a lot of lazy boys around. They were there in Ireland, and there's even more of them in the UK. No aspirations at all. Very depressing. I wanted nothing more than to get out when I was 17- I wanted to move away, get free of my dad, start fresh, and make it on my own. 'course, when I dislocated my knee and couldn't walk, it was dad I called, but not before walking a mile or two on it, and then stupidly struggling up some stairs...
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:31:56
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
|
This article really dosn't say much. there are facts, but it is missing a lot of substance and context. It states that more women are getting post secondary degree's then men, yes, but does it mention how many men today do as opposed to 40 years ago? There are alternative options for education that are not classified as a College or University. In the past, sexual relations were to be reserved for marriage, today, casual encounters are more common, and socially acceptable. Quite often someone you would enjoy to spend a night with, you would not want to spend your life with. But I do believe young men(and women) do need more guidance and advice from older generations then what is received. Now if that is just the younger generation deciding not to listen, or the older generation not trying hard enough, or not knowing how to connect and advise the youth, I am not sure.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/04 19:36:33
40k 7th Edition Record
11 Games played
5 Games Won |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:36:50
Subject: Re:Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
|
The out-of-wedlock birthrate is more than 40% in America. In 1960, only 11% of children in the U.S. lived apart from their fathers.. In 2010, that share had risen to 27%.
This just caught my eye looking back, and its sort of misleading. A child born out-of-wedlock is not necessarily away from its father, as I've known many people to prioritize children over marriage, if they intend on marriage at all.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/04 19:51:06
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:39:03
Subject: Re:Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Elite Tyranid Warrior
|
Well, if women have problems looking for men who do not have challenging jobs and get married...HEY! I am right here!
I have a challenging job and single...asking where all the decent single men are at...*grumble*
Bah, who am I kidding, it sounds like the woman (or man, not sure) answering this question has no clue whats going on.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/04 19:43:30
- 3000+
- 2000+
Ogres - 3500+
Protectorate of Menoth - 100+ |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:39:11
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Consigned to the Grim Darkness
|
Besides, I know for a fact that many "baby means marriage" unions have ended disastrously, such as my sisters' first marriage.
|
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:43:31
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
|
Thaanos wrote:
In the past, sexual relations were to be reserved for marriage, today, casual encounters are more common, and socially acceptable. Quite often someone you would enjoy to spend a night with, you would not want to spend your life with.
I'd actually go so far as to say that saving oneself for marriage has become socially unacceptable in certain circles, or at least extremely odd.
|
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:45:44
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Elite Tyranid Warrior
|
dogma wrote:Thaanos wrote:
In the past, sexual relations were to be reserved for marriage, today, casual encounters are more common, and socially acceptable. Quite often someone you would enjoy to spend a night with, you would not want to spend your life with.
I'd actually go so far as to say that saving oneself for marriage has become socially unacceptable in certain circles, or at least extremely odd.
This is, at least from my experience, true.
|
- 3000+
- 2000+
Ogres - 3500+
Protectorate of Menoth - 100+ |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:49:50
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
|
Melissia wrote:Besides, I know for a fact that many "baby means marriage" unions have ended disastrously, such as my sisters' first marriage.
I've also seen the "marriage means baby" thing explode horribly.
|
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:50:16
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
|
Modern divorce and child custody laws also highly disincentivize marriage to men.
No matter how good a father you are, in Ohio, you will be lucky to get partial (meaning weekends) custody of your child if the mother wants custody. Of course, that doesn't affect your child support payments. Women know that they will get to keep the kids, and that they will need to provide for themselves and the kids.
Men know that they have no real right to their children, so planning on investing in them is pretty irrational.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:50:18
Subject: Re:Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
|
dogma wrote:This just caught my eye looking back, and its sort of misleading. A child born out-of-wedlock is not necessarily away from its father, as I've known many people to prioritize children over marriage, if they intend on marriage at all.
While not insignificant, certainly not a lot of kids live in cohabiting households. And while the out-of-wedlock birthrate is staggeringly high, the number of kids living in 2-parent households isn't that bad (~70%).
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/10/04 19:50:53
text removed by Moderation team. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:51:31
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Consigned to the Grim Darkness
|
Does that include them living in a household with two grandparents whom are married? That certainly described my first nephew before my sister was re-married.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/04 19:51:56
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:56:40
Subject: Re:Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
|
Its interesting that there isn't much variance from urban to rural populations. I would have expected the rate of cohabitation, at least, to be much higher in urban areas.
|
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 19:58:40
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
|
SO basically the 'oppressed' women are doing better in first world countries where they have MORE rights than men and anyone who asks one for a cup of coffee in an elevator is oppressing them?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 20:04:14
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
|
Phototoxin wrote:SO basically the 'oppressed' women are doing better in first world countries where they have MORE rights than men and anyone who asks one for a cup of coffee in an elevator is oppressing them?
If how you come off here is how you come off to women... yeah, you might be opressing them.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 20:04:28
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
|
Melissia wrote:Does that include them living in a household with two grandparents whom are married?
That certainly described my first nephew before my sister was re-married.
Sorry Melissia, I didn't do the study. Look at the source data (US census bureau). But I suspect that group would fall under "Other."
dogma wrote:Its interesting that there isn't much variance from urban to rural populations. I would have expected the rate of cohabitation, at least, to be much higher in urban areas.
Agreed. I was also surprised to see that single-father households were so low.
Phototoxin wrote:SO basically the 'oppressed' women are doing better in first world countries where they have MORE rights than men and anyone who asks one for a cup of coffee in an elevator is oppressing them?
Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
|
text removed by Moderation team. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 20:04:57
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Elite Tyranid Warrior
|
Phototoxin wrote:SO basically the 'oppressed' women are doing better in first world countries where they have MORE rights than men and anyone who asks one for a cup of coffee in an elevator is oppressing them?
Whao? Where did that come from?
|
- 3000+
- 2000+
Ogres - 3500+
Protectorate of Menoth - 100+ |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 20:06:45
Subject: Re:Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
Breaking news!
Old, conservative, Roman Catholic man finds modern culture scary. Blames video games and a lack of faith and morals. CNN resorts to "reporting" troll stories to increase page hits.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 20:07:34
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
|
I had a teacher who said in front of the classroom that girls are smarter than boys. If the teacher had said boys were smarter than girls she would've been fired. However, since she said the opposite, she wasn't and is still teaching to this day.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 20:11:23
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
|
And that is why men are doomed. DOOMED I TELL YOU!
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 20:11:27
Subject: Why men are in trouble
|
 |
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
|
Lictor, you assume she would have been fired, in reality, she would have only been fired (well, more likely, reprimanded) if someone had made an issue out of it. If you'd made an issue (I mean, a big enough issue) out of her saying that about boys, then she probably would have been fired, too.
|
|
|
 |
 |
|