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Someone please pick up that phone. BECAUSE I and about 7000 others, CALLED IT.

Reason why this sucks. I am currently paying a patreon 60/month to send me interesting and new models, and now that has to stop, because I bet Custodes WONT be one of the first revealed factions. Meaning we can't play them until they are, which means they are worthless.

quick correction, we can "still" play, according to the release, but all the core rules have changed, and points will change, also everything FW is getting a re-do apparently. So kiss half the Custodes army goodbye.

If CP starts at a fixed amount instead of being generated buy detachments, I’d think Custodes and Knights will be the Factions that are the biggest beneficiaries of such a change.

in theory but both of those factions soup for other reasons than cp such as objective holding. You really need full details of the new system to make an assessment

So did anyone see the new Exploding weapon rules? Did the Baneblade just become the single best anti-infrantry weapon in the game? I have toi believe this will do amazing things for the Terminator Grenade launchers too!

 nordsturmking wrote:
Since custodes are on of the worst factions in 40k it can only get better ^^ and they specifically addressed custodes have problems generating CP.

Getting CP based on the points level, and not needing CP to soup in the things we need anymore will be massive boon for Custodes. Can't wait.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

quick correction, we can "still" play, according to the release, but all the core rules have changed, and points will change, also everything FW is getting a re-do apparently. So kiss half the Custodes army goodbye.

Custodians gets more CP as pure. Not bad. How core rules change is hard to say how it affects. Terrain helps elite units generally more in 8th ed so if terrain gets even more detailed odds are good it could help elite more than horde. Points changing...How that's bad? You are already declaring custodians get relatively higher % increase than rest of factions? Rather than even point drop? Where's the source for such a claim?

They said FW will be getting points changes. What have you seen of the last few FW points changes that Custodes have gotten? Terminators up, tanks up, Dreads up. If they decide the new rules make FW units too powerful, it stands to simple reason they would nerf them. Unfortunatly, Custodes are a faction now where more than 50% of our playable units don't come from Codex. Especially if they make Talons a thing, and SoS become troops. We'd be depending on a white dwarf article for basis. That will obviously get changed, as no one has quick and easy access to that specific issue.

If CP are no longer tied to formations, then Talons making SoS troops is useless anyway.

Finally, if the exploding weapons rumors ruleset is true and to be believed, you best believe any and every tank in the game with a cannon is getting a re-do.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
They said FW will be getting points changes. What have you seen of the last few FW points changes that Custodes have gotten? Terminators up, tanks up, Dreads up. If they decide the new rules make FW units too powerful, it stands to simple reason they would nerf them. Unfortunatly, Custodes are a faction now where more than 50% of our playable units don't come from Codex. Especially if they make Talons a thing, and SoS become troops. We'd be depending on a white dwarf article for basis. That will obviously get changed, as no one has quick and easy access to that specific issue.

If CP are no longer tied to formations, then Talons making SoS troops is useless anyway.

Finally, if the exploding weapons rumors ruleset is true and to be believed, you best believe any and every tank in the game with a cannon is getting a re-do.

Custodes don't even have any tanks with a random number of hits...

This thread is about discussing tactics, if you want to moan about your imaginary future balance changes I would suggest you go to the News & Rumors section or something. Maybe you can pay your patreon to listen.

Not happy to hear the mortal wounds are unchanged. Hurts us a lot, and it feels like such a stupid mechanic to begin with, especially when it's spammed.

Also still a bit wary about what's going to be the situation with our PA, considering 9th is right around the corner.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
They said FW will be getting points changes. What have you seen of the last few FW points changes that Custodes have gotten? Terminators up, tanks up, Dreads up. If they decide the new rules make FW units too powerful, it stands to simple reason they would nerf them. Unfortunatly, Custodes are a faction now where more than 50% of our playable units don't come from Codex. Especially if they make Talons a thing, and SoS become troops. We'd be depending on a white dwarf article for basis. That will obviously get changed, as no one has quick and easy access to that specific issue.

If CP are no longer tied to formations, then Talons making SoS troops is useless anyway.

Finally, if the exploding weapons rumors ruleset is true and to be believed, you best believe any and every tank in the game with a cannon is getting a re-do.

Custodes gets rules in war of spider don't they? No need for wd(which would be reprinted elsewhere anyway)

Points are changing anyway for all likely. Not just fw.

Troops won't be useless.

Exploding cannon thing is specific weapons. Not every weapon. Rulebook will have specific list of weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nemesis464 wrote:
Not happy to hear the mortal wounds are unchanged. Hurts us a lot, and it feels like such a stupid mechanic to begin with, especially when it's spammed.

Also still a bit wary about what's going to be the situation with our PA, considering 9th is right around the corner.

It's going to remain legal. Unless custodians are early to get codex not much to worry there.

I'm really excited about the explosive weapons rules. Terminators just became worth their points if they get max hits on their launchers. Anyone wanna guess what constitutes a "Horde"?

So with the new Explosive Weapons rules, does that mean Psych out grenades now auto-hit 3 times? What constitutes a "Horde"? I hope it's more than 5 models, otherwise Krak grenades and Guardsmen Grenade launchers just became the new Cheese.Forget about Thunder Cannons, take a look at max hitting Earth Shakers or jesus, manticores and Wyverns. Automatically 24 shots per round,

Seriously, who was looking at 8th and said, "You know what is really hurting this edition? Shooting!"

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So with the new Explosive Weapons rules, does that mean Psych out grenades now auto-hit 3 times? What constitutes a "Horde"? I hope it's more than 5 models, otherwise Krak grenades and Guardsmen Grenade launchers just became the new Cheese.Forget about Thunder Cannons, take a look at max hitting Earth Shakers or jesus, manticores and Wyverns. Automatically 24 shots per round,

Seriously, who was looking at 8th and said, "You know what is really hurting this edition? Shooting!"

More than 5?

I'm hoping for 11+ at a MINIMUM. A Squad of 10 Marines or Guardsmen is not a horde, nor is a min squad of Lesser Daemons.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So with the new Explosive Weapons rules, does that mean Psych out grenades now auto-hit 3 times? What constitutes a "Horde"? I hope it's more than 5 models, otherwise Krak grenades and Guardsmen Grenade launchers just became the new Cheese.Forget about Thunder Cannons, take a look at max hitting Earth Shakers or jesus, manticores and Wyverns. Automatically 24 shots per round,

Seriously, who was looking at 8th and said, "You know what is really hurting this edition? Shooting!"

More than 5?

I'm hoping for 11+ at a MINIMUM. A Squad of 10 Marines or Guardsmen is not a horde, nor is a min squad of Lesser Daemons.

That makes fair, what at that size, unless they aren't autohits, wouldn't it get slightly broken if a grenade launcher on a lowly guardsman took out half a "horde" in one round of shooting? Hell, a stormshard battery could eliminate twice it's cost in points per turn, which makes zero sense.

The odds of a frag grenade taking out 6 grots is, at a BS 3+ Scion...

.2%.

That’s not a typo. One in 500 times would six shots kill six Grots.

The picture accompanying that announcement showed a battle cannon, and mentioned adding keywords to certain weapons. I don’t think grenade launchers or even wyvrens will get it.

The specific words they used were "Explosive Weapons" and "hordes". It might jut be tank weapons, but even then, why do we need better shooting? Was that really what people were saying? I can't shoot armies off the table with 3 Baneblades?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The specific words they used were "Explosive Weapons" and "hordes". It might jut be tank weapons, but even then, why do we need better shooting? Was that really what people were saying? I can't shoot armies off the table with 3 Baneblades?

'Big weapons that go BANG are EVEN BETTER at going BANG!!!' probably sells more models to their increasingly younger target audience than buffing melee does.


.

nemesis464 wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The specific words they used were "Explosive Weapons" and "hordes". It might jut be tank weapons, but even then, why do we need better shooting? Was that really what people were saying? I can't shoot armies off the table with 3 Baneblades?

'Big weapons that go BANG are EVEN BETTER at going BANG!!!' probably sells more models to their increasingly younger target audience than buffing melee does.


.

I'm not going to lie, that is likely the most logical and insightful thing I've ever read on the explanation of their decision making process.

So with the new Forums rule, are we keeping this megathread open?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So with the new Forums rule, are we keeping this megathread open?

Well the mods said that 1) There will be no more mega-threads and 2) that the transition will happen once 9th drops (which would necessitate a new thread anyway). So, no we are not keeping it (unless the mods change their minds) but it will be open until 9th edition is released.

I have zero motivation to remain on Dakkadakka if the mega threads go. They're the only game-centric discussion worth browsing on the site. Make sure you've made yourselves heard if you appreciate these threads as much as I do.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So with the new Forums rule, are we keeping this megathread open?

New rules? Where can i find those?

 nordsturmking wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So with the new Forums rule, are we keeping this megathread open?

New rules? Where can i find those?

It was in General Discussion. With 9th, they want Tactics threads to focus on specific questions rather than be megathreads. I think it's an O.K. change since it IS hard to search for things if you miss a few pages.

Audustum wrote:


It was in General Discussion. With 9th, they want Tactics threads to focus on specific questions rather than be megathreads. I think it's an O.K. change since it IS hard to search for things if you miss a few pages.

Hmm not the biggest fan of that actually- is there going to be a suitable replacement to the megathreads for people who want to casually discuss Custodes but without sole focus on tactics question?

nemesis464 wrote:

Audustum wrote:


It was in General Discussion. With 9th, they want Tactics threads to focus on specific questions rather than be megathreads. I think it's an O.K. change since it IS hard to search for things if you miss a few pages.

Hmm not the biggest fan of that actually- is there going to be a suitable replacement to the megathreads for people who want to casually discuss Custodes but without sole focus on tactics question?

Maybe make a thread in General Discussion?

I mean, this is supposed to be tactics.

So honest question, if the exploding weapons rules do affect non tank weapons, would anyone give a second look at 3 extra shots of S4 AP3 D1 from their Allarus? Does that make then suddenly worth the points? Granted they are still assault 18" I believe, but even that can do some pretty serious mob munching now.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So honest question, if the exploding weapons rules do affect non tank weapons, would anyone give a second look at 3 extra shots of S4 AP3 D1 from their Allarus? Does that make then suddenly worth the points? Granted they are still assault 18" I believe, but even that can do some pretty serious mob munching now.

On D3 shots they already average 2, so you're only 'gaining' one shot per model. Doesn't seem like like much to get excited about to me.

Look at Firepike Aquilon terminators by comparison. They go from average 3.5 shots to 6, which is a bit more significant for mob mulching.

Except one is AP3 and one is AP 0. Also one is assault, and one is heavy, not that it matters being a fire weapon, but they don't get max hits being a fire weapon, the launcher does. I will take 9 extra shots of S4 AP3 D1 character targeting over the firepikes random number of shots that can't target characters or be fired after advancing.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Except one is AP3 and one is AP 0. Also one is assault, and one is heavy, not that it matters being a fire weapon, but they don't get max hits being a fire weapon, the launcher does. I will take 9 extra shots of S4 AP3 D1 character targeting over the firepikes random number of shots that can't target characters or be fired after advancing.

Firepikes are ap 1 and strength 6.