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I am going to run a Vulkan list, so that means that I want as much flamers, meltas, and TH's as I can get. I already know where I will be putting the meltas: a squad of Sternguard with combi-meltas (right?) and some dreads with multi-meltas.
What I can not decide on is how I should put in the flamers? I will have 2 Tac squads, each mounted in a Rhino. Should I give them flamer?
I am also thinking of getting a couple speeders and giving them flamers, but I was thinking of giving maybe one a melta, so that it can speed up and kill a tank.
And which would be better for this: a Scout Speeder or one with the Marines?

I am not a fan of combi-flamers or flamers on tac squads. Generally anything that can be easily killed by a flamer can be handled by a charging tactical squad or rapid fire bolters, whereas meltas and combimeltas handle things a bit heftier than you want to be in CC with. I'd keep the flamers to dreads, LRRs and speeders.

As to WHICH speeders...The scout speeder is open topped. If you are running scouts with it, great, otherwise, use the regular speeder. MM/HF speeders handle everything, and they only get better with vulkan.

So maybe 2 MM/HF regular SM speeder? And should I just equip the Tac squads with a ML and maybe something else?

If you're using MM dreads, stick heavy flamers in them. Also in MM/HF speeders.

DakkaDakka wrote:

Going against the grain here but combi-flamer/flamer combos in tactical squads are where it's at.

Yeah, they are good at handling infantry with bolters. In fact your tactical squads are really only effective against infantry, so give them the best tools to ensure the job is done! Throw in your heavy weapon of choice, with Vulcan a multi-melt a is fine, for armor shots when nothing else is out there. Double flamers, especially twin linked, will cripple just about anything on foot.

The next best place for flamers are when they are heavy and on
Dreads and speeders. Those are where you should pit melt a as well, to tackle armor.

Melta in sternguard too.

Plasma is good for tactical squads too but you're asking about flamers. Purge with fire!

MM

I also second the flamer on a tac squad. Its free and it makes them a little more killy vs infantry. Think of the flamer as an assault 10 bolter that ignores cover. If you are afraid of tanks then just give them the multimelta. It is free too.

Flamers are by definition anti-infantry weapons, so you only want them in units which are likely to fight (attack or defence) lots of infantry. In most other cases, you'll get more value out of another bolter.

Well, I am going to have a good amount of meltas to take out armor with. I was thinking of just putting flamers in the tac squads.

If you want flamers, don't Legion of the Damned get HF?

I know they aren't that good, but a squad of flamers and HF w/ Vulcan's power thing wouldn't be too bad.

Happygrunt wrote:If you want flamers, don't Legion of the Damned get HF?

I know they aren't that good, but a squad of flamers and HF w/ Vulcan's power thing wouldn't be too bad.

LotD with combimelta, melta and multimelta with relentless isn't bad with Vulcan either.

The thing is, I think that my Elites part is gonna be pretty full with the dreads and TH/SS Termies.

Speeders. Or cart your TH/SS in a redeemer. Or both!

SOFDC wrote:Speeders. Or cart your TH/SS in a redeemer. Or both!

Yeah, I was thinking of doing both

Vulkan doesn't twin link the flamestorm cannons. So while Redeemers are great, Vulkan doesn't do anything for them.

I think flamers are great for tactical marines. While bolters are great for anti-infantry, they are susceptible to cover. Flamers ignore cover, and as such beat the area terrain those guardsmen are sitting in, or nullify the KFF mek nearby. Plus its an assault weapon, so you can hit 4-5 guys with it+ bolt pistols, then assault in.

I know he doesn't do anything for the flamestorm cannons. It would just work best because the rest of my army will be in close range.
Because I am going to use Sternguard, if I use the 5-man squad, I think it would be best to put them in a Razorback. I am am gussing putting a multi-melta on it would be best.

Here is what you take.

HQ
Captain with Relic Blade, Combi flamer or melta, Artificer Armour

Command Squad with 4 flamers or Meltagns

Troops
Tac Squadsd with Flamer and MM in a TL HB Razorback

Combat Squad the MM and 4 Bolters in the Razorback and get the jump on vehicles.

Fast Attack

Land Speeder Squadron of 3, with a MM and HF each

Heavy Support

As many Land Raider Redeemers with MM as you can get.

Elites

HAMMERNATORS! In a LRR.

And Vulkan.
So put both Combat Squads in the Razorback?

Could you come up with a 1500pt list for me? 1500pts is the typical limit at my FLGS.

Give me a day or 2 at the most.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What army do you plan to face? And are models a limit? If so, let me know what you have.

Deadshot wrote:Give me a day or 2 at the most.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What army do you plan to face? And are models a limit? If so, let me know what you have.

That is just fine. You can either post the list in this, or send me a message.

The armies? Just about every single one. I don't think there is a army (or game for that matter) that my FLGS does not play*. I did see GK, Tau I have seen just about every time I go. SM is the most common there. I think a "take all comers" list would be best.

And what do you mean "are models a limit"? As in models I can not get?




*Heck, just last week a couple guys started BFG!

Yeah, I meant models you can't get. I mean theres no point in writing a list for 3 LRR if you can't get 2 right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Could you give me a list of all the models you own, including any FW ones, please?

Deadshot wrote:Yeah, I meant models you can't get. I mean theres no point in writing a list for 3 LRR if you can't get 2 right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Could you give me a list of all the models you own, including any FW ones, please?

Currently I don't own any, as I am just starting. The models and cost won't be a problem though because I am not going to go buy a 1500pt within the next week list because I want my models to look good, and I know I will feel overwhelmed if I have 1500pts of models to build and paint. It will be a gradual process, but worth it in the end since I will have a nice, fully painted army.

But anyway, I think that just sending me a message might be best, as this is a Tactics thread.

Wait, LOTD can benefit from Chapter Tactics? Pffft.

I know they're an uncompetitive unit and could use the help, but still - that's a bit dodgy!

lindsay40k wrote:Wait, LOTD can benefit from Chapter Tactics? Pffft.

I know they're an uncompetitive unit and could use the help, but still - that's a bit dodgy!

The rule is that ALL flamers, heavy flamers, meltas, and multi-meltas are twin linked. So...yup! They benefit

lindsay40k wrote:Wait, LOTD can benefit from Chapter Tactics? Pffft.

I know they're an uncompetitive unit and could use the help, but still - that's a bit dodgy!

Why?
It TL all flamers, HF, Melta Guns and Multi-Meltas? The unit dosent need chapter tactics to benefit, as it is army wide.

Speaking of army wide, as requested, I wrote up a 1500 point Vulkan list. Now, it needs to be prefaced with the note that I don't play Vulkan and it has been a while since I played vanilla, but here is what I came up with.


HQ:
Vulkan Hestan:190

Elites:
Assault Terminators: 280
+2 men

Dedicated:
Land Raider Crusader: 275
Multi-Melta
Extra Armour

Dreadnought:115
Heavy Flamer

Dedicated:
Drop pod:35

Troops:

Tactical Squad: 210
Meltagun
Missile Launcher
Combi-flamer
Powerfist

Tactical Squad: 210
Meltagun
Missile Launcher
Combi-flamer
Powerfist

Dedicated:

Razorback: 90
TL-Assault Cannon
Storm Bolter
Dozer Blade

Razorback: 90
TL-Assault Cannon
Storm Bolter
Dozer Blade

Now, I know, a couple odd choices, but I can explain.

The Crusader is armed with 2 sponsons who are defensive weapons. You can move 6 and fire everything. The multi-melta is twin linked, so a nice Close range AT gun. Extra armour so you can keep moving, and with PoTMS, still fire a weapon.

The assault cannons are for hoard poping/ tank poping, with the Tac Squads kitted out to make the best use of the Vulkan rule.

Vulkan and Assault Terminators for that classic Vulkan punch. 5 Hammers and 2 LC should do the trick there.

All the weapons on the Dreadnought are TL, making for an easy point and kill unit.

No speeders because at 1500 they didn't fit in nicely, but if you expanded they should be your first pick.

I don't claim to be an expert, but if your looking for a Vulkan list, this doesn't look to bad.

The Redeemer, IMO, would fit the whole "flamers and meltas" thing, but carrying more men is good.

If I took out the 2 LC Termies and put in a LRR to carry Vulkan and the (5)Hammernators, how many points would that give me?

forruner_mercy wrote:The Redeemer, IMO, would fit the whole "flamers and meltas" thing, but carrying more men is good.

If I took out the 2 LC Termies and put in a LRR to carry Vulkan and the (5)Hammernators, how many points would that give me?

Trust me, the Crusader fits better because you will have more range/ more shots than the redeemer for 10 points more.

The redeemer isnt effected by Vulkan either, so I would HIGHLY suggest sticking with the Crusader.

The list, in total, is 1495, but if you did what you suggested, you would have a 1405 list, so 85 points.

Happygrunt wrote:

forruner_mercy wrote:The Redeemer, IMO, would fit the whole "flamers and meltas" thing, but carrying more men is good.

If I took out the 2 LC Termies and put in a LRR to carry Vulkan and the (5)Hammernators, how many points would that give me?

Trust me, the Crusader fits better because you will have more range/ more shots than the redeemer for 10 points more.

The redeemer isnt effected by Vulkan either, so I would HIGHLY suggest sticking with the Crusader.

The list, in total, is 1495, but if you did what you suggested, you would have a 1405 list, so 85 points.

You gave some good points about the LRC, so I will most likely keep that.
What else could I put in using those extra 80 points left over (including those 5 points not used from the original 1495pts).

I'm in the process of building a Sallie army, and here are my thoughts (untested, so theoryhammer only).

I used to think that all Tac squads should have meltaguns so I could kill more tanks, especially the high AV ones. Things like Land Raiders and such. But I read a really good discussion on B&C asking the same thing, and there's some really good advice saying that melta guns on Tac squads are not the end all be all.

If you're shooting the meltagun, then you're not shooting anything else in the squad. Essentially you're wasting the other 150pts of bolter marines on trying to kill a tank. Flamers on the other hand, a bolter that automatically hits, ignores cover, and can wound more than two targets. So people who say that bolters are all the anti-infantry you need don't realize that rapid firing bolters will not wipe out 20+ Gants/Gaunts/Boyz/Blob Guard. After rolling to hit, wound, and the ever present 4+ cover save (or 5+ for Orkz), the horde will still be a potent threat. Now swap out two bolters for a flamer and combi-flamer. Now you stand a very real chance of knocking down a horde to a manageable size where either you can charge it (assuming the rest of the squad fired pistols) or can weather the charge from the horde.

As a blob-guard player, I scoff at melta-armed tac squads that charge up midfield to blow up vehicles. But a Vulkan enhanced tac squad with flamer/combi-flamer will scare me considerably more.

I think the only real use a melta-armed tac squad has is trying to knock off a wound from an MC. The way I see it is that there are better platforms for melta to reliably eliminate threats before they approach your Tac squads, who should be worrying about killing off already damaged squads and holding objectives.

Just my thoughts from an inexperienced Marine player who's played against too many Marine armies.

Flame/melta away!

Blacksails wrote:I'm in the process of building a Sallie army, and here are my thoughts (untested, so theoryhammer only).

I used to think that all Tac squads should have meltaguns so I could kill more tanks, especially the high AV ones. Things like Land Raiders and such. But I read a really good discussion on B&C asking the same thing, and there's some really good advice saying that melta guns on Tac squads are not the end all be all.

If you're shooting the meltagun, then you're not shooting anything else in the squad. Essentially you're wasting the other 150pts of bolter marines on trying to kill a tank. Flamers on the other hand, a bolter that automatically hits, ignores cover, and can wound more than two targets. So people who say that bolters are all the anti-infantry you need don't realize that rapid firing bolters will not wipe out 20+ Gants/Gaunts/Boyz/Blob Guard. After rolling to hit, wound, and the ever present 4+ cover save (or 5+ for Orkz), the horde will still be a potent threat. Now swap out two bolters for a flamer and combi-flamer. Now you stand a very real chance of knocking down a horde to a manageable size where either you can charge it (assuming the rest of the squad fired pistols) or can weather the charge from the horde.

As a blob-guard player, I scoff at melta-armed tac squads that charge up midfield to blow up vehicles. But a Vulkan enhanced tac squad with flamer/combi-flamer will scare me considerably more.

I think the only real use a melta-armed tac squad has is trying to knock off a wound from an MC. The way I see it is that there are better platforms for melta to reliably eliminate threats before they approach your Tac squads, who should be worrying about killing off already damaged squads and holding objectives.

Just my thoughts from an inexperienced Marine player who's played against too many Marine armies.

Flame/melta away!

That is really the main reason why I would only put flamers on the Tac squads. I should not be sending them against vehicles. That is why I have my dreads, Termies, and possibly Sternies and Speeders.