Draigo

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**gabrielhorus**

I have noticed that people seem to hate the Driago fluff. Why?

Valid reasons only, no reasons based on hatred of Grey Knights or love of Chaos.

**Greyish**

When someone else asked the same question on one of the other forums this answer kinda summed it up for me..:

oiad @ Heresy Online wrote:Many are hung up about two things in particular, both to do with the fluff:

1.He not only soloed a Daemon Primarch, he humiliated the cusser.
2.He was dragged into the warp, but didn't die. Quite the opposite - despite all-comers he continues to slay everything in sight, maintaining a pointless quest of sorts.

Take these out and give him something more grounded and people wouldn't have cared so much.

It's my impression that GW intended to create an iconic character that would stand amongst their most favoured heroes in their pantheon. Before their 5E codex, the Grey Knights had very few noteworthy characters, especially one's that could stand proud next to say, Grimnar or Mephiston. With 5E's focus on producing several characters per codex, it was obvious they were gonna need a lot of new material for the GKs and that players would expect a strong line-up. To most though they overshot it horrendously with Draigo.
...

**Lord Rogukiel**

Greyish wrote:When someone else asked the same question on one of the other forums this answer kinda summed it up for me..:

oiad @ Heresy Online wrote:Many are hung up about two things in particular, both to do with the fluff:

1.He not only soloed a Daemon Primarch, he humiliated the cusser.
2.He was dragged into the warp, but didn't die. Quite the opposite - despite all-comers he continues to slay everything in sight, maintaining a pointless quest of sorts.

Take these out and give him something more grounded and people wouldn't have cared so much.

It's my impression that GW intended to create an iconic character that would stand amongst their most favoured heroes in their pantheon. Before their 5E codex, the Grey Knights had very few noteworthy characters, especially one's that could stand proud next to say, Grimnar or Mephiston. With 5E's focus on producing several characters per codex, it was obvious they were gonna need a lot of new material for the GKs and that players would expect a strong line-up. To most though they overshot it horrendously with Draigo.
...

This. Especially the demon primarch bit.

**iproxtaco**

Popular opinion is always popular. Aside from him roaming about in the Warp, which I admit is a bit OTT, killing Mortarion was no worse than the four other examples of stupid feats that I can come up with off the top of my head. No use beating the horse when the corpse has already decayed. Discussing it in about three other threads anyway.

**purplefood**

It could be worse...

**Abadabadoobaddon**

Draigo is a tragic figure. Sure, he waltzes around the Realm of Chaos killing every daemon he comes across and destroying the domains of the gods with impunity - but he still hasn't succeeded at permanently killing a Chaos god! It's so tragic!

**Seaward**

His fluff was written by the same thirteen year-old ghostwriter that Ward always uses, so it's miles-over-the-top fanwank fuel.

Also, they got his name from A Song of Ice and Fire.

**blood reaper**

Draigo can keep killing Daemons, this does nothing to harm the Chaos Gods. He's extra entertainment for them since now he resides in the Warp and may only leave for a small amount of time. He's pretty much a Daemon himself now and lacks any real purpose other than to kill and kill for all eternity.

**gabrielhorus**

Everyone acts as if he oneshotted a Daemon Primarch with his bare hands. All he did was step in once the previous Supreme Grand Master was down and finish the weakened (and already not the strongest primarch) Daemon. Given the amount of description of the actual fight, he may have just snuck up on the Daemon and run him through from behind as the Primarch gloated, then carved the previous Supreme Grand Master's name on the heart of the corpse.

**Seaward**

gabrielhorus wrote:Everyone acts as if he oneshotted a Daemon Primarch with his bare hands. All he did was step in once the previous Supreme Grand Master was down and finish the weakened (and already not the strongest primarch) Daemon. Given the amount of description of the actual fight, he may have just snuck up on the Daemon and run him through from behind as the Primarch gloated, then carved the previous Supreme Grand Master's name on the heart of the corpse.

We did twenty-odd pages of this in the other thread.

All the passage in the codex says is that Draigo, alone and unaided, defeated a Daemon Primarch's bodyguard, then the Daemon Primarch, and then carved the previous Grand Master's name into his heart. It does not say anything about the Daemon Primarch being weakened. It does not say anything about how Draigo did it.

**iproxtaco**

We had just defeated the previous Supreme Grand Master. Unless you really want to sit in stubborn denial foreverand try as hard as you can to make the incident as bad as you can for no reason, then we can safely say Mortarion wasn't 100%. You don't defeat the most powerful Grey Knight of the time without wasting energy, considering the very presence of such a being will have caused Mortarion pain.

**Abadabadoobaddon**

iproxtaco wrote:Unless you really want to sit in stubborn denial foreverand try as hard as you can to make the incident as bad as you can for no reason, then we can safely say Mortarion wasn't 100%.

Why would Mortarion need to be at less than 100% for Draigo to defeat him? Draigo defeats one of the strongest bloodthirsters with his bare hands - and this is in the friggin Warp where the bloodthirster would be at 100% full power unweakened by having to maintain a physical form. He burned down Nurgle's garden and knocked down Tzeentch's city. Why is it so hard to believe that he defeated a primarch?

Stop trying to make Draigo look weaker than he is. This guy is easily the most powerful being in the current setting short of a Chaos god (and even that's debatable given the fact that he roams the Realm of Chaos killing, maiming and burning at will and not even the Chaos gods can put a stop to him).

**Soladrin**

The amount of misreading in this topic is highly amusing.

Please go on.

Please do not troll the forum. Thanks! ~Manchu

**blood reaper**

Please do not spam the forum with images. Thanks! ~Manchu

**iproxtaco**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:Unless you really want to sit in stubborn denial foreverand try as hard as you can to make the incident as bad as you can for no reason, then we can safely say Mortarion wasn't 100%.

Why would Mortarion need to be at less than 100% for Draigo to defeat him? Draigo defeats one of the strongest bloodthirsters with his bare hands - and this is in the friggin Warp where the bloodthirster would be at 100% full power unweakened by having to maintain a physical form. He burned down Nurgle's garden and knocked down Tzeentch's city. Why is it so hard to believe that he defeated a primarch?

Stop trying to make Draigo look weaker than he is. This guy is easily the most powerful being in the current setting short of a Chaos god (and even that's debatable given the fact that he roams the Realm of Chaos killing, maiming and burning at will and not even the Chaos gods can put a stop to him).

I don't have to try very hard. Ann'grath the Unbound > Mortarion, ergo, Hector Rex > Draigo. Scarbrand > Mortarion, ergo, Dante > Draigo. Ku'gath > Mortarion, ergo, Justicar Thawn > Draigo. Guilliman/Ferrus Manus > Mortarion, ergo, Fulgrim > Draigo. Of course, Horus > Sanguinus > Angron > Fulgrim > Draigo. And the Emperor is better than all of them.

**Abadabadoobaddon**

iproxtaco wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:Unless you really want to sit in stubborn denial foreverand try as hard as you can to make the incident as bad as you can for no reason, then we can safely say Mortarion wasn't 100%.

Why would Mortarion need to be at less than 100% for Draigo to defeat him? Draigo defeats one of the strongest bloodthirsters with his bare hands - and this is in the friggin Warp where the bloodthirster would be at 100% full power unweakened by having to maintain a physical form. He burned down Nurgle's garden and knocked down Tzeentch's city. Why is it so hard to believe that he defeated a primarch?

Stop trying to make Draigo look weaker than he is. This guy is easily the most powerful being in the current setting short of a Chaos god (and even that's debatable given the fact that he roams the Realm of Chaos killing, maiming and burning at will and not even the Chaos gods can put a stop to him).

I don't have to try very hard. Ann'grath the Unbound > Mortarion, ergo, Hector Rex > Draigo. Scarbrand > Mortarion, ergo, Dante > Draigo. Ku'gath > Mortarion, ergo, Justicar Thawn > Draigo. Guilliman/Ferrus Manus > Mortarion, ergo, Fulgrim > Draigo. Of course, Horus > Sanguinus > Angron > Fulgrim > Draigo. And the Emperor is better than all of them.

I see you're not a mathematician.

**iproxtaco**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:Unless you really want to sit in stubborn denial foreverand try as hard as you can to make the incident as bad as you can for no reason, then we can safely say Mortarion wasn't 100%.

Why would Mortarion need to be at less than 100% for Draigo to defeat him? Draigo defeats one of the strongest bloodthirsters with his bare hands - and this is in the friggin Warp where the bloodthirster would be at 100% full power unweakened by having to maintain a physical form. He burned down Nurgle's garden and knocked down Tzeentch's city. Why is it so hard to believe that he defeated a primarch?

Stop trying to make Draigo look weaker than he is. This guy is easily the most powerful being in the current setting short of a Chaos god (and even that's debatable given the fact that he roams the Realm of Chaos killing, maiming and burning at will and not even the Chaos gods can put a stop to him).

I don't have to try very hard. Ann'grath the Unbound > Mortarion, ergo, Hector Rex > Draigo. Scarbrand > Mortarion, ergo, Dante > Draigo. Ku'gath > Mortarion, ergo, Justicar Thawn > Draigo. Guilliman/Ferrus Manus > Mortarion, ergo, Fulgrim > Draigo. Of course, Horus > Sanguinus > Angron > Fulgrim > Draigo. And the Emperor is better than all of them.

I see you're not a mathematician.

No I'm a wizard. My Magic is > than your maths.

**Kanluwen**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Stop trying to make Draigo look weaker than he is. This guy is easily the most powerful being in the current setting short of a Chaos god (and even that's debatable given the fact that he roams the Realm of Chaos killing, maiming and burning at will and not even the Chaos gods can put a stop to him).

We don't really need to "try" to make Draigo look weaker than he is.

The Grey Knights Codex actually does a fairly good job of it.
"That anything could exist in the Realm of Chaos, yet be utterly immune to the will of the Chaos Gods was a fresh impossibility in a domain riven with the impossible. Yet if the Dark Gods could not vanquish Draigo, then nor could Draigo win any meaningful victory. The Daemons he slew inevitably returned in new bodies, Nurgle's mighty jungle regrew from the ashes and even the tumbled walls of the Inevitable City righted themselves."

**BrainDeleted**

I don't like Draigo's fluff because it just feels...well, dumb, to be honest. The author tried way way way too hard to make him 'epic'. Hm, what's something really really powerful for my new pet project special character to kill? A Daemon Primarch! GREAT IDEA! Those are like super strong, if my special character kills one, everyone will think he's super cool!

Yeeeah. Just comes off as dumb to me.

**Seaward**

Kanluwen wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Stop trying to make Draigo look weaker than he is. This guy is easily the most powerful being in the current setting short of a Chaos god (and even that's debatable given the fact that he roams the Realm of Chaos killing, maiming and burning at will and not even the Chaos gods can put a stop to him).

We don't really need to "try" to make Draigo look weaker than he is.

The Grey Knights Codex actually does a fairly good job of it.
"That anything could exist in the Realm of Chaos, yet be utterly immune to the will of the Chaos Gods was a fresh impossibility in a domain riven with the impossible. Yet if the Dark Gods could not vanquish Draigo, then nor could Draigo win any meaningful victory. The Daemons he slew inevitably returned in new bodies, Nurgle's mighty jungle regrew from the ashes and even the tumbled walls of the Inevitable City righted themselves."

I italicized a different, hilarious part.

**Kanluwen**

Untouchables can't be vanquished by the Dark Gods. Nor can Pariahs.

What's your point?

**bombboy1252**

I like being the few that actually enjoy Draigo's fluff...

He got sucked in the warp, and no matter what he does, nothing matters, the daemons just come back, everything he destroys just gets rebuilt...

Basically, it's what the Grey Knights are doing now, the Grey Knights save a planet from daemons, but they just come back, in an endless cycle....

That's why I love Draigo's fluff, he represents all of the Grey Knights, and their constant battle with daemons...

**Abadabadoobaddon**

Kanluwen wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Stop trying to make Draigo look weaker than he is. This guy is easily the most powerful being in the current setting short of a Chaos god (and even that's debatable given the fact that he roams the Realm of Chaos killing, maiming and burning at will and not even the Chaos gods can put a stop to him).

We don't really need to "try" to make Draigo look weaker than he is.

The Grey Knights Codex actually does a fairly good job of it.
"That anything could exist in the Realm of Chaos, yet be utterly immune to the will of the Chaos Gods was a fresh impossibility in a domain riven with the impossible. Yet if the Dark Gods could not vanquish Draigo, then nor could Draigo win any meaningful victory. The Daemons he slew inevitably returned in new bodies, Nurgle's mighty jungle regrew from the ashes and even the tumbled walls of the Inevitable City righted themselves."

So he can't permanently destroy the Chaos gods in their own realm. What a weakling.

**Durza**

He hasn't temporarily destroyed the Chaos gods either, and you're avoiding the issue. Any damage Draigo does is almost instantly repaired, so if anything, he's contributing to the chaotic nature of the warp, even if this was just the writer's half assed attempt to make the fluff look somewhat reasonable.

And you can't deny that Mortarion was at less than 100% unless your opinion is that every Grey Knight but Draigo is woefully incompetent.

**bombboy1252**

Mortarion was also a daemon, Grey Knights > Daemons.

Especially if said Knight has said daemons real name...makes it much easier to kill a daemon if you know it's name...

**Durza**

I don't think that applies to princes. If it did, they could have just summoned them and turned them into swords for Inquisitors a long time ago.

**bombboy1252**

Durza wrote:I don't think that applies to princes. If it did, they could have just summoned them and turned them into swords for Inquisitors a long time ago.

I always thought it did apply to princes...they are daemon princes after all...

**Durza**

bombboy1252 wrote:
Durza wrote:I don't think that applies to princes. If it did, they could have just summoned them and turned them into swords for Inquisitors a long time ago.

I always thought it did apply to princes...they are daemon princes after all...

But the rules of mortals apply to most of them. It's why they can remain outside the Warp for prolonged periods. Assumedly, either the powerful ones get new names, or they're protected from such inconveniences by their god.

**Brother Coa**

This again?

I will space iproxtaco from writing bible on "how I am wrong and he is right".

But seriously? Like this wasn't asked like 30 times since the codex was released.

**iproxtaco**

Brother Coa wrote:This again?

I will space iproxtaco from writing bible on "how I am wrong and he is right".

But seriously? Like this wasn't asked like 30 times since the codex was released.

I'll use that spare time to go and buy you a Dictionary and other guides to the English language because I don't even know what the hell that means.